OPN - Disco Inferno 2 - “New Eden”

[00:00:03] Hello everyone, Cameron here. Before we get to our Disco Inferno coverage of Episode 2, New Eden, we had some Strange New Worlds content finally drop. Isn't that right, Jesse?

[00:00:15] Talk about New Eden. I'm here to talk about New Anson.

[00:00:19] Heck yeah. So we've got this little emergency reaction to the clip from New York Comic Con of Strange New Worlds, what we presume is Episode 1 of Season 3.

[00:00:30] I think it was a safe presumption, unless Episode 1 is just all like flashback or something.

[00:00:35] So emergency, in fact, that Producer John could not make it to this recording, so it's just Jesse and I fangirling out.

[00:00:42] Yeah, there's no voice of reason here for this. This is just going to be absolute freak-out time.

[00:00:47] Now, I will say the first thing that I appreciate about this clip is that it immediately re-establishes the stakes and the scale of the problem here.

[00:00:57] This is the clearest look yet we've had of this Gorn Destroyer, and it is gigantic.

[00:01:03] This thing is a weird shape, it is incredibly massive, and it really adds to that feel of the Enterprise being outgunned, outpositioned, outeverything.

[00:01:15] There's like six little fighter ships in this, it has Independence Day vibes, it just keeps that energy at the end of the Season 2 cliffhanger maxed all the way out.

[00:01:27] But more than that, I think that it really shows that moment of Pike seemingly freezing on the bridge at the end of Season 2 is more of a subjective time thing than an objective time thing.

[00:01:41] Because he's just panicking internally, and I feel like that shot in Season 2 goes on for like a minute.

[00:01:48] But here, we see that, no, that was his perception of that, because he's trying to run through all these options in his head.

[00:01:54] And then we get all these great suggestions from our crew.

[00:01:58] I mean, Star Trek is at its best when the whole crew is contributing.

[00:02:02] Mitchell is back!

[00:02:03] Mitchell is kicking ass!

[00:02:05] I am so ready for Season 3, Cameron.

[00:02:08] Bitchin' Mitchell.

[00:02:09] I am here for it.

[00:02:10] She does more in this three-minute clip, really, than a lot of whole episodes she's in.

[00:02:16] It's great.

[00:02:17] I hope we get to see a lot more of Mitchell.

[00:02:19] She's fantastic.

[00:02:20] I mean, elephant in the room, of course, is we get a second scene.

[00:02:26] I mean, this is not a trailer.

[00:02:27] This is not a teaser.

[00:02:28] This is three minutes of an episode.

[00:02:29] Presumably, it feels like this is going to be the final cut.

[00:02:33] Presumably, the first three minutes of the season.

[00:02:35] I'm going to guess maybe there will be some other sort of cold open over on the Gorn ship.

[00:02:41] But what a bold move to end your season on a cliffhanger and then reveal how it's resolved halfway to the next season.

[00:02:50] Like, can you imagine if they'd done that for Best of Both Worlds?

[00:02:52] Oh, man.

[00:02:53] Or, I mean, think of any cliffhanger you've seen in any show.

[00:02:56] Like, they never do that.

[00:02:58] And, I mean, I think one, maybe that's kind of a gift for like, hey, guys, we know you're waiting a long time.

[00:03:04] We're going to give you something.

[00:03:07] What I think, what I feel, they have to be confident about this rescue mission.

[00:03:11] They have to know that is the meat and potatoes of this episode.

[00:03:14] It is not about, oh, how are they getting away from these Gorn?

[00:03:17] That's not a big deal.

[00:03:17] We're going to tell you right now.

[00:03:19] We're not going to make you wait.

[00:03:20] It's about how they get the crew.

[00:03:22] And I am so excited to see what happens there.

[00:03:24] For a second, I thought they were just going to beam them back onto the Enterprise and everything would be resolved in this three minutes.

[00:03:29] And I am so glad that's not the case.

[00:03:31] I want to see that away mission dealing with shit on that Gorn ship.

[00:03:36] Yeah.

[00:03:36] And, you know, we had this other clip from, we're going to call it the Vulcan comedy of errors episode from season three.

[00:03:43] So we know that all these characters that we know and love are going to make it right.

[00:03:48] But beyond that, this is Star Trek.

[00:03:51] And this is Star Trek in the classic vein.

[00:03:53] This isn't some of the newer shows that Cameron hasn't seen yet where they're like, what if this beloved character just effing died?

[00:04:02] This is classic Star Trek where people are always going to make it.

[00:04:07] The crew are all heroes.

[00:04:08] They're going to work together.

[00:04:09] They're going to be competent.

[00:04:10] We're going to get a solution to this.

[00:04:12] I am so incredibly excited.

[00:04:15] I will point out that I totally called that the whole light messaging thing would be part of this.

[00:04:21] Obviously, I don't think that's a difficult call to make with what we know about the Gorn and what's been established.

[00:04:27] But it's nice to see it mentioned.

[00:04:29] It did seem a little convenient that Uhura could push like three buttons and cause the Gorn ships to just crash into each other.

[00:04:35] Well, and they're also firing on those ships.

[00:04:38] It's a momentary diversion thing, right?

[00:04:41] But we have Uhura coming up with ideas.

[00:04:44] We have Mitchell coming up with ideas.

[00:04:46] We have Una coming up with ideas.

[00:04:48] We have Spock mentioning another magic Star Trek medal, and it is called Wolkite, which I have to assume is named after Bill Wolkhoff, writer and former guest of Open Pike Night.

[00:05:02] I mean, maybe it's not, but it's Wolkite.

[00:05:05] Come on.

[00:05:05] That's got to be named after Bill, right?

[00:05:07] A hundred percent.

[00:05:08] That's immediately what I thought as soon as he said it.

[00:05:10] In fact, there's a lot of plot that happens in the next 15 seconds, and I missed it completely the first two times I watched because I was geeking out so much about recognizing Wolkite.

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:20] The other thing I took from this, well, how do you feel about the hit it?

[00:05:24] Okay.

[00:05:25] There's a lot from Pike that means a lot to me in this clip.

[00:05:28] I love that we get a hit it from him that is not super competent, super cool, super collected.

[00:05:34] It's let's give this a shot, right?

[00:05:37] Right.

[00:05:38] And you could probably argue that Pike knows this isn't where he meets his fate, but he doesn't know that this isn't where like half his crew meets their fate.

[00:05:49] Right.

[00:05:49] So he has some trepidation there.

[00:05:52] He does make the decision, but he's not supremely confident in it.

[00:05:56] And it's a nice way to rehumanize such a perfect captain and such an amazing multifaceted character.

[00:06:04] And I mean, even when he says, let's play a game of chicken, he's not saying it like a Hollywood one liner, like let's play a game of chicken.

[00:06:12] It's like just shit.

[00:06:14] This is the only chance we have.

[00:06:16] Let's see if it works.

[00:06:17] Well, and he still has the wherewithal to make a dad joke when he says hit it.

[00:06:22] Right.

[00:06:23] Because they're hitting it.

[00:06:24] They're running into it.

[00:06:26] No, I mean, he could have overplayed that line.

[00:06:28] I thought it was delivered perfectly.

[00:06:29] Yes.

[00:06:30] Because it did take me a second.

[00:06:30] I was like, he said that a little differently.

[00:06:33] Oh, right.

[00:06:34] Okay.

[00:06:34] Because they're going to do that.

[00:06:35] I loved it.

[00:06:36] And hashtag Portagus.

[00:06:39] She gets to miss out on ramming the Enterprise into a Gorn chef.

[00:06:42] How, how, how she's going to be so upset when she learns that Una got to drive the Enterprise into a Gorn ship.

[00:06:48] We better see a scene with her and Mitchell where she's like, what was that that I felt?

[00:06:54] And Mitchell's like, you're never going to believe this.

[00:06:57] This is what I got to do while you weren't here.

[00:06:59] Like, oh man.

[00:07:01] But you played holding that for a hero when you play chicken with a Gorn ship, right?

[00:07:05] You played holding that for a hero.

[00:07:07] Come on, Una.

[00:07:08] I know you've watched Footloose.

[00:07:10] Well, I know Mitchell is driving here.

[00:07:13] Cause.

[00:07:13] You think she's driving?

[00:07:14] Yeah.

[00:07:15] Una's in the pilot seat.

[00:07:16] Una is, but he says, Mitchell, bring us around.

[00:07:20] Do this.

[00:07:21] Okay.

[00:07:21] You're right.

[00:07:21] Okay.

[00:07:22] Point being, it's teamwork, right?

[00:07:25] And it's people that we've seen be competent before.

[00:07:28] There's just so much that I love about this.

[00:07:31] I love the way the Gorn shields look like reptile skin being pierced.

[00:07:36] It's, it's just, there's so many layers.

[00:07:40] Like I said, I love finally getting a good look at this giant Gorn destroyer.

[00:07:45] This is the nastiest looking ship that I may have ever seen in Star Trek.

[00:07:50] And it has some of that scale of a Borg cube, right?

[00:07:53] Like there looks like there could be cities on this freaking destroyer and they're like,

[00:07:58] okay, drive into it.

[00:08:01] And they just wiped out the nurseries.

[00:08:02] All right.

[00:08:03] Exclusively all the kindergartens, but then we get a warp from inside enemy shields and

[00:08:12] like basically connected to the whole after they tag them with these duds.

[00:08:16] Like this is high octane, super intense.

[00:08:20] And to your point, Cameron, I could see this episode going previously on strange new worlds.

[00:08:26] They set everything up.

[00:08:27] Then they play this clip.

[00:08:29] And then when they warp away, we get the opening theme song.

[00:08:34] Well, those were our thoughts on the clip.

[00:08:36] I'm sure we'll have more as we process it.

[00:08:38] If you want to talk more about this and anything else, you should come over to our discord because

[00:08:42] there is a lot of talk going on on there.

[00:08:45] I admit that's where I first put together the hit it pun.

[00:08:50] And yeah, our discord is where it's happening.

[00:08:52] So come check us out.

[00:08:53] How would people find us there, Jesse?

[00:08:54] Go check the show notes of this episode.

[00:08:57] There will be a link at the bottom that lets you join our discord directly from there, regardless

[00:09:02] of what podcast app you are using.

[00:09:05] And before we get to our Disco Inferno coverage, I just want to let people know we've got some

[00:09:09] exciting stuff coming up.

[00:09:10] Some of it has not been recorded, so don't hold our feet to the fire.

[00:09:13] But the plan is next week on Halloween, we'll have a bonus Halloween episode coming out

[00:09:18] with some special guest voices and our takes on some classic horror films and maybe classic

[00:09:23] spooky trek episodes.

[00:09:25] Keep an ear out for that.

[00:09:26] We've got Tom Tran coming back to join us to discuss episode three of Discovery that we just

[00:09:33] recorded and can promise you that's going to be a fun listen.

[00:09:37] And then we've got a special episode.

[00:09:40] We're going to be taking a little break from Discovery to go talk.

[00:09:43] That's right.

[00:09:44] You guessed it.

[00:09:45] Britney Spears and her film Crossroads featuring Jesse.

[00:09:49] Anson Mount, Zoe Saldana, Kim Cattrall.

[00:09:53] And yes, as Cameron mentioned, Britney Spears.

[00:09:55] But there's a lot of freaking people in this movie that ended up in Star Trek.

[00:09:59] Also, Dan Aykroyd is in this movie.

[00:10:01] There's some serious actors in this movie.

[00:10:04] It's it's cast the stack.

[00:10:06] And you know what?

[00:10:07] Yeah, it's a little bit of a time capsule from 2002.

[00:10:10] But we are excited to have Ben and Adam from Greatest Trek and Greatest Generation come discuss

[00:10:15] this movie with us because arguably this is the first place a lot of folks in our generation

[00:10:21] saw Anson Mount.

[00:10:22] And I cannot wait to get into it.

[00:10:24] That's going to be a good one.

[00:10:26] So lots of good stuff coming down the pike.

[00:10:28] But now adjust your fig leaves because here comes New Eden.

[00:10:32] Is this thing on?

[00:10:36] Hello.

[00:10:37] Hello.

[00:10:51] Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds podcast where your personal logs are

[00:10:56] the prime directive.

[00:10:57] I'm your host, John T. Boulds, here tonight with some amazing callers to discuss our episode

[00:11:03] two of Disco Inferno.

[00:11:05] That's right.

[00:11:06] We're going back to where it all began and discussing the episodes of Star Trek Discovery

[00:11:10] featuring Captain Christopher Pike, which leads us to season two, episode two.

[00:11:15] New Eden.

[00:11:17] Joining me tonight, of course, are my co-hosts, the man who has decided to be courageous,

[00:11:22] Jesse Bailey.

[00:11:23] It all comes from the beard.

[00:11:24] Honestly, without the beard, I can't get anything done.

[00:11:27] Wow.

[00:11:28] Wow.

[00:11:28] It's not a shot.

[00:11:29] And the man who's chosen to be brave, Cameron Harris and host of Green Shirt and

[00:11:33] Newbies Trek through TNG.

[00:11:35] That's me.

[00:11:36] I guess you must be the one who chose to be John T. Boulds.

[00:11:40] Exactly.

[00:11:41] Exactly.

[00:11:41] Exactly.

[00:11:41] Like the crew member who must have pulled Captain Pike aside after he said that and was

[00:11:45] like, uh-uh.

[00:11:46] Like, they hit it.

[00:11:48] They hit it.

[00:11:48] It's good.

[00:11:48] But this be bold, be brave, be courageous thing.

[00:11:51] Like maybe.

[00:11:52] Oh, no.

[00:11:54] Una has told him not to do that.

[00:11:56] And he's like, well, she's not on the ship now.

[00:11:58] So I'm going to try this on a new crew.

[00:12:00] Did he like discover an ancient copy of a thesaurus lying around?

[00:12:04] Yeah.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:05] Those are all three the same thing.

[00:12:07] Yeah.

[00:12:07] Yes, they are.

[00:12:08] Exactly the same.

[00:12:09] I was going to ask us to score Captain Inspirational's speech on that.

[00:12:13] And I was not going to be kind.

[00:12:16] Be bold, be italic, be underlined.

[00:12:19] Exactly.

[00:12:21] That would be more inspiration.

[00:12:23] But let's get the most important part of this episode out of the way early.

[00:12:28] Pike's hair already looks better than it did in episode one.

[00:12:33] Pike's writing room already looks way better than it did in episode one.

[00:12:36] Pike in general looks better than he did in episode one.

[00:12:40] There's a shot in this episode where I'm just like, okay, maybe I wouldn't push him away if he kissed me.

[00:12:49] I was going to say, I feel like that maybe is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

[00:12:54] Before we get too far into the episode, guys, I do want to reverse thrusters back to episode one real quick.

[00:13:00] Like, there's something that sounds like I'm setting up a joke.

[00:13:02] I'm not.

[00:13:03] There was something at the end I did think was worth us touching on near the end of the episode.

[00:13:07] Very close to the end.

[00:13:09] Pike's talking to Michael.

[00:13:11] And, you know, it's kind of the, hey, it's the end of the pilot of the season.

[00:13:15] And we're kind of getting you geared up for the rest of the season.

[00:13:17] And he says something.

[00:13:19] They're talking about going on this adventure.

[00:13:20] He's like, yeah, but we're going to have some fun along the way.

[00:13:22] Right.

[00:13:23] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:23] Yeah.

[00:13:23] We're going to have some fun.

[00:13:24] And I was like, oh, that's it.

[00:13:26] That feels like you're talking to the audience.

[00:13:28] What was going on at the time that the writers felt like they had to.

[00:13:33] I don't know.

[00:13:33] I thought that was an interesting moment.

[00:13:35] I don't know.

[00:13:36] For me, it kind of feels more like a Pike character moment.

[00:13:40] Like he's spent the whole episode being pretty serious, incredibly down home.

[00:13:47] And, you know, like talking about regulations and their duty and all this stuff.

[00:13:53] So it makes sense that they would, you know, kind of just, oh, by the way, it's not all,

[00:13:59] you know, rules and stuff.

[00:14:01] Well, I think that's why I bumped on it.

[00:14:03] It was a pretty fun episode.

[00:14:04] We had like space jinx, Connor getting killed, Tig Notaro getting introduced.

[00:14:09] I mean, it was a fun episode.

[00:14:10] He was being fun.

[00:14:11] He was throwing around those ancient witticisms.

[00:14:15] Like, yeah, it was fun for us.

[00:14:18] But most of what the characters experienced was very traumatic.

[00:14:22] That's very true.

[00:14:24] And that's not going away anytime soon.

[00:14:26] Right.

[00:14:27] I mean, it's still Discovery.

[00:14:28] So, but I really do think that that was more of a character moment.

[00:14:32] But, you know, I, again, I can never tell how much of what's in each season of Discovery

[00:14:40] is like a direct acknowledgement from the writers as to the audience reaction.

[00:14:46] Like, cause I mean, this show, you know, I spend a little more time on social media than

[00:14:51] you guys do.

[00:14:52] And this show is very, very divisive.

[00:14:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:56] And the detractors of it are incredibly vocal.

[00:15:00] Yeah.

[00:15:00] So, I always tend to think like it's a chance, but I don't know.

[00:15:05] I mean, I saw it as a character moment.

[00:15:08] Yeah.

[00:15:08] I think I saw it as a character moment.

[00:15:10] I can absolutely see where you'd think maybe the writers were feeling a real defensive after

[00:15:15] the, after the backlash against season one of the, just the reactions.

[00:15:19] Like Jesse said, I mean, this, this series absolutely unseated Enterprise as the most

[00:15:24] controversial Star Trek, like it as the most like divisive and just polarizing.

[00:15:31] And sorry, I'm doing a Pike thing here.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] I, I, I could see it going either way.

[00:15:37] The writers or just, just trying to give Pike like, Hey, sorry, I was kind of a dick

[00:15:42] earlier on the bridge.

[00:15:43] So let's have a little fun.

[00:15:44] So he did kind of, you know, get as close to a dad snapping as he kind of had in that

[00:15:51] episode, but yeah.

[00:15:52] Okay.

[00:15:53] But in this episode, we do get a nice parallel almost right away, more evoking of Spock and

[00:16:00] the reverence for him filling up the room when Pike says that basically the needs of the

[00:16:06] many outweigh the needs of the few here.

[00:16:07] Like, yeah, I know he wants us to not tell you this, but we have a giant problem to solve

[00:16:15] here.

[00:16:15] So that outweighs his desire for privacy, very deliberate phrasing there.

[00:16:20] And I really like it because, you know, if you've watched a lot of Star Trek, you're

[00:16:24] immediately like, that's a Spock thing.

[00:16:25] And if you haven't, you're like, that makes good sense.

[00:16:28] Cause otherwise this is a HIPAA violation.

[00:16:30] Well, please, we know.

[00:16:32] Starfleet doesn't care about those.

[00:16:34] But the new fans don't necessarily know.

[00:16:37] Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:37] I feel like a couple of times so far already in two episodes, Pike has been like, I know

[00:16:42] this is against the rules, but man, this is a really important mission guys.

[00:16:46] Oh yeah.

[00:16:47] Yeah.

[00:16:47] Like three times in two episodes he's used that.

[00:16:50] Yeah.

[00:16:50] But I mean, you know, not to be that guy, but I'd say 70 to 80% of TOS episodes do that.

[00:16:58] And it makes slightly more sense there because it's episodic, right?

[00:17:02] So people watching it at the time may not have seen every episode of Star Trek.

[00:17:06] So they need to know, why is this guy in the Navy breaking the rules?

[00:17:10] You don't break the rules, but you know, it's part of the DNA of all the shows.

[00:17:14] How many times did Picard say, try hell with the prime directive?

[00:17:19] That's your Picard?

[00:17:21] We're going with that?

[00:17:21] I mean, it's my, it's my on a whim Picard.

[00:17:24] Are you going to compare it to Cameron's?

[00:17:25] Come on.

[00:17:26] Always.

[00:17:27] It's the, it's the Picard to which everyone is compared, but.

[00:17:30] But it's not Picard.

[00:17:32] It's Sean Connery.

[00:17:35] Happy baldest, beautiful day guys.

[00:17:37] There you go.

[00:17:38] There you go.

[00:17:39] Um, I did like that Michael Burnham broke the cardinal rule of putting together a presentation.

[00:17:46] Like she made Pike adjust the graphic after she turned us like, come on.

[00:17:50] And mirror your image so he can see that it's the same thing.

[00:17:54] Also, I like that he wasn't just like computer overlay images.

[00:17:57] He was like, turn 90 degrees, rotate.

[00:18:00] Yeah.

[00:18:01] Yeah.

[00:18:01] Okay.

[00:18:01] You have good 3d spatial awareness.

[00:18:03] Got it.

[00:18:04] Yeah.

[00:18:04] Yeah.

[00:18:04] I, uh, I was in a meeting at work today where somebody animated an icon on one of their

[00:18:09] slides and I kid you not people in the audience went, Ooh.

[00:18:13] Ooh.

[00:18:14] And I was like, wow.

[00:18:16] Okay.

[00:18:17] Guys.

[00:18:19] It goes to show also, you know, there was a, there was a problem years ago, first couple

[00:18:25] of generation of iPads.

[00:18:26] And still, I think it kind of holds where Apple was like, Hey, these things don't die.

[00:18:31] Like they just keep working.

[00:18:33] And obviously Spock's tablet still works from when he was a kid.

[00:18:37] It was like, yep.

[00:18:37] Yep.

[00:18:38] It's a problem for the next several hundred years.

[00:18:40] Tablets are kind of well-made and they just keep working.

[00:18:43] I mean, didn't Apple just build in obsolescence at some point?

[00:18:47] Pretty much had to.

[00:18:49] Yeah.

[00:18:50] Well, I have said it before and I'll say it again right here.

[00:18:54] The spore jump is one of my favorite Star Trek effects across the board.

[00:18:58] Like, is it maybe a little over the top and wacky?

[00:19:02] Yes.

[00:19:02] Is that part of what I love about it?

[00:19:04] Absolutely.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:06] I was wondering like how much the directors have to do with that because it's so VFX

[00:19:10] intensive.

[00:19:11] I wonder if they just do a bunch of those shots at the beginning of the season and directors

[00:19:15] are kind of just got a pull from what they have or.

[00:19:18] Oh, I would love to see the other options for the jump.

[00:19:21] Like, I'm sure there's a lot.

[00:19:23] Cause this one is probably the one where they're like, okay, and here's the one we know you're

[00:19:25] not going to like.

[00:19:26] Cause it's got a hundred steps to it.

[00:19:28] But here you go.

[00:19:29] And somebody was like, no, that's definitely the one.

[00:19:32] Yeah.

[00:19:32] That looks cool as hell.

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:33] Can I have a shot where the camera's sitting on the part of the hole that spins?

[00:19:37] That's what I'm thinking about.

[00:19:38] It was POV.

[00:19:40] This whole episode, the shots.

[00:19:42] Oh man.

[00:19:43] Like the camera whips.

[00:19:44] I'm like, oh, that's right.

[00:19:45] This is discovery.

[00:19:47] That's right.

[00:19:48] This camera never stops moving, which we know I love.

[00:19:51] I love that.

[00:19:52] But this, this episode it's restrained compared to some other episodes, if I remember correctly.

[00:19:56] Yeah.

[00:19:57] I was fine with the Jonathan Frakes version of the whipping camera.

[00:20:01] Yes.

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:02] Now.

[00:20:02] He did direct a head of an episode.

[00:20:04] Yeah.

[00:20:04] Can you guys tell when you're watching a Frakes episode before you see the credits?

[00:20:08] Like, is there something?

[00:20:09] Cause to me, I know the fandom is always like, oh, it's a Frakes episode.

[00:20:13] Right.

[00:20:14] And it's like, does that have a signature in it?

[00:20:17] Like I'd have to watch them all again, I think, but there was nothing to me really other than

[00:20:22] the character focus that where I was like, oh, that's a Frakes.

[00:20:24] I mean, the point of television directing is to not have a signature.

[00:20:28] So.

[00:20:28] Right.

[00:20:29] That's true.

[00:20:29] I would say that the, the signature of Frakes is he makes an episode that fits in the series

[00:20:35] he's directing an episode for.

[00:20:36] Like he makes a discovery episode.

[00:20:38] He makes a TNG episode.

[00:20:40] He makes an enterprise episode.

[00:20:41] And he makes solid episodes.

[00:20:42] I would say there might be a tell that like, oh, this is an actor directing for the first

[00:20:49] or second time.

[00:20:49] Cause those feel very overly directed, especially watching TNG.

[00:20:54] You're always like, oh, okay.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:56] They're doing something different with the camera this time around.

[00:20:59] Well, and watch like the Avery Brooks directed episodes of DS9.

[00:21:03] It's like, yeah.

[00:21:04] All right.

[00:21:05] Character actors do whatever you want.

[00:21:07] And then we'll build around that.

[00:21:09] Like, which I really love.

[00:21:11] Yeah.

[00:21:11] Yeah.

[00:21:11] Picard's episodes in TNG are like, oh, there's a lot of closeups on people's faces acting

[00:21:16] in this one.

[00:21:17] Yeah.

[00:21:18] Speaking of closeups, it is television law that when you zoom in, you say enhance, right?

[00:21:24] Cause like.

[00:21:24] Yes.

[00:21:25] Oh yeah.

[00:21:25] Oh yeah.

[00:21:25] On a picture.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] That was, I was like, this is absolutely CSI, but I liked it because in the previous episode,

[00:21:33] there was a line specifically saying we have like ultra telescopic zoom cameras on the whole.

[00:21:39] So it's like, okay, this is fine.

[00:21:40] Yeah.

[00:21:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:41] I like that you compared it to CSI and obviously not the origin of enhance, but whatever.

[00:21:46] Origin of it.

[00:21:47] It's Blade Runner.

[00:21:49] Yeah.

[00:21:49] Yeah.

[00:21:49] I know it, but I didn't bring it up because I know Cameron doesn't like Blade Runner.

[00:21:53] So I didn't want to yuck his yum.

[00:21:54] I felt a little triggered.

[00:21:55] Yeah.

[00:21:56] I just, I was trying to be a nice guy.

[00:21:58] Have we heard mention of Luddite collectives before?

[00:22:01] I mean, I, I just wanted to be like, Hey, let's pump the brakes and talk about this.

[00:22:05] What are Luddite collectives on earth in the time of discovery?

[00:22:08] Hmm.

[00:22:09] The, I think the current equivalent would be like the Amish, right?

[00:22:13] Or like an uncontacted tribe somewhere.

[00:22:17] Well, but let, but Luddite is a, is a rejection.

[00:22:20] I would say Amish is more likely because I think Luddite by definition is a rejection of

[00:22:24] modern technology.

[00:22:26] Not a tribe that doesn't know about it.

[00:22:28] But just the way they mentioned it, it sounded like it was a thing in Star Trek lore.

[00:22:31] Like some people on earth have rejected technology and lived this way.

[00:22:35] And then their children become Starfleet officers and are badass on away missions.

[00:22:40] We've seen them in TNG, but I don't, I don't think we've seen mention of them in disco.

[00:22:46] And I would have to, again, I don't know if that exact word is used in TOS, but I know

[00:22:51] it was like.

[00:22:52] What's her butt in DS9?

[00:22:54] We just watched an episode without, that was basically a forced Luddite collective,

[00:22:59] but she fled earth to create that.

[00:23:02] So obviously she didn't have a choice on earth to go to one.

[00:23:05] Right.

[00:23:05] But she made the choice to reject it as do the Baku in Insurrection.

[00:23:11] Yeah, that's right.

[00:23:13] Okay.

[00:23:13] Just jumped out.

[00:23:15] So you know what else kind of jumps out in this episode to me is Pike goes heavy on

[00:23:21] the theology.

[00:23:22] Like this is the one.

[00:23:24] Yeah.

[00:23:24] He uses this theological argument without outright saying, Hey, this is God.

[00:23:29] He's saying this could be God or could be considered God.

[00:23:34] And it almost feels like an allusion to fate, which as we've discussed is a force that is

[00:23:40] present and real in Star Trek.

[00:23:42] So I liked it.

[00:23:44] They use kind of that parallel argument for that.

[00:23:47] And how information rich sermons are on new Eden, welcoming sermons.

[00:23:52] That's how they say hello.

[00:23:54] How convenient that their hello is.

[00:23:56] Here's a detailed breakdown of our past, even though we assume, you know it because you

[00:24:00] were just from the North.

[00:24:02] The North.

[00:24:03] Right.

[00:24:03] Which has to be like a Starfleet lesson.

[00:24:04] Cause I swear every time in TNG, they do this.

[00:24:07] They're like, we're from the West.

[00:24:08] We're from the mountains.

[00:24:09] But usually it's a cardinal direction.

[00:24:12] Usually I think they mentioned a continent.

[00:24:14] Like we're from the other continent.

[00:24:16] But it's always like the Southern continent.

[00:24:18] It's like there's only one continent in each quadrant of a planet.

[00:24:21] It's so weird.

[00:24:23] But yeah, like we have to take you to so-and-so.

[00:24:27] I forget her name, the head mistress of the mayor or whatever.

[00:24:30] And it sounds kind of ominous.

[00:24:32] And then all of a sudden you're in the middle of like, yeah, a montage history lesson.

[00:24:36] You're like, oh, okay.

[00:24:38] This is just, this is dinner.

[00:24:39] Okay.

[00:24:40] Gotcha.

[00:24:40] Yeah.

[00:24:41] Yeah.

[00:24:42] So, uh, you guys want to hear my nerdiest nitpick so far?

[00:24:45] Hell yeah.

[00:24:46] Excellent.

[00:24:46] Yes.

[00:24:47] Why are they using metric tons?

[00:24:49] Like, okay, I understand that they use the metric system in Star Trek, but a metric ton

[00:24:56] to me is like, oh, that must be way more than a regular ton.

[00:25:00] Right.

[00:25:00] And it's not, it's like 10% more.

[00:25:02] Yeah.

[00:25:03] It's another 200 pounds.

[00:25:04] That's nothing.

[00:25:05] Like I get it, but it just feels like, I don't know.

[00:25:09] What's the word?

[00:25:10] It feels like they're trying to make it exaggerated when it's not really that exaggerated, but would

[00:25:17] the proper term for what happens to Tilly be, she got rocked?

[00:25:24] I believe that would be.

[00:25:25] Yeah.

[00:25:26] Yeah.

[00:25:26] Cause damn.

[00:25:28] Yeah.

[00:25:29] That was, I forgot how brutal that was.

[00:25:31] I've forgotten this season a lot.

[00:25:33] And I'm like, oh yeah.

[00:25:34] I say, oh yeah.

[00:25:35] A lot.

[00:25:36] When I'm rewatching these episodes.

[00:25:39] I am very, cause I, I, I remember that and spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't watched

[00:25:44] all the way through season two yet, that Michael is the red angel.

[00:25:48] Right.

[00:25:49] And that she had to kind of go back and do all the jumps at the very end or something.

[00:25:53] And I, I forget exactly why I don't, I, I don't know if they exactly explained why

[00:25:59] she had to move a church.

[00:26:00] So I'm curious to see how like some of these things come together and like why she had

[00:26:05] to do what she does.

[00:26:06] It does come back into play.

[00:26:07] Okay.

[00:26:07] As soon as I heard the word terror release him, I'm like, oh yeah, this is important.

[00:26:11] Again, I don't quite remember entirely how, and I'm enjoying not watching ahead.

[00:26:16] Yeah.

[00:26:16] It's kind of fun.

[00:26:17] Kind of knowing, but forgetting a lot of the little details.

[00:26:20] So it'll be fun to kind of, yeah.

[00:26:22] Pull the string together.

[00:26:24] And I remember last episode, we were like, does this dark matter thing come back into play?

[00:26:29] Like, is this it though?

[00:26:31] Like this was life changing technology.

[00:26:33] And they're like, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:34] Just throw it into space and don't worry about it.

[00:26:36] I, I believe the properties or something may come up again later, but I guess she still

[00:26:42] has the little rock she pulled out.

[00:26:44] Right.

[00:26:44] And come on, I'm a sucker for a slingshot of any kind in space.

[00:26:49] Like I love that sequence and we'll get to it when we get to it.

[00:26:53] I just love that sequence.

[00:26:55] But so after this like incredibly expositional sermon, Pike really just kind of puts his

[00:27:04] mitts all over this culture's most prized religious text, right?

[00:27:07] Like not very general order.

[00:27:10] One of him.

[00:27:11] I got to say.

[00:27:12] No.

[00:27:14] Well, before that, when they first get there, he's looking at the stained glass with all

[00:27:18] the religions on it.

[00:27:19] And I just wanted to see like a flying spaghetti monster up there or maybe a picture of the

[00:27:24] big Lebowski.

[00:27:25] Like let's get some other religions in there.

[00:27:26] Not just the big four.

[00:27:28] Come on.

[00:27:29] Well, those were the big four at the time, Cameron.

[00:27:31] Remember, cause this is from way back in the day.

[00:27:34] Well, this is world war three.

[00:27:35] It's our future.

[00:27:36] And I think, you know, by the time, uh, uh, uh, con is running around murder hearting

[00:27:42] people that people would turn to the flying spaghetti monster and maybe Bob Marley put Bob

[00:27:49] Marley up there on that stained glass.

[00:27:50] I don't know.

[00:27:51] This, this is the beginning of a long running campaign where Cameron goes, actually, I just

[00:27:55] wanted to see Scientology on the window.

[00:27:58] Damn it.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:59] Saw through me.

[00:28:00] Well, I do have to ask who in the church in world war three knew how to do stained glass

[00:28:06] work and how did they get all the stained glass supplies?

[00:28:10] I mean, they were sent to tear Alicia.

[00:28:13] So what probably happened was when they rejected technology, somebody who had worked in an office

[00:28:19] for 30 years was like, you know what?

[00:28:21] I've always really been passionate about stained glass.

[00:28:25] And everybody else was like, we've been passionate about crops and not dimes.

[00:28:29] So fine.

[00:28:30] You do your stained glass and I guess we'll feed you.

[00:28:33] And Jacob just kept rolling his eyes every time somebody's like, here's what I want my

[00:28:37] new life to be.

[00:28:38] He's like, oh God.

[00:28:39] They had a battery that could have lasted 200 years, but they used it all up on the

[00:28:43] smelter for that stained glass.

[00:28:46] Well, we, uh, we have a battery the last 200 years, but first we got to get it recharged

[00:28:51] by some of our collars.

[00:28:52] So let's go ahead and hear from our buddy, Pilate.

[00:28:56] Hey, open pike night back with my hit shits and giggles.

[00:28:59] It's platy M3.

[00:29:01] I mean, Johnny M3.

[00:29:03] John, I had to inject myself with some of your DNA to survive this episode.

[00:29:06] Why?

[00:29:07] Well, suppose you had to be there.

[00:29:08] Starfleet was willing to overlook the genetic manipulation for the remainder of this call.

[00:29:12] I hope you can as well.

[00:29:13] All right.

[00:29:13] Hit.

[00:29:13] Damn pike.

[00:29:14] Do you always know the right thing to say in every situation?

[00:29:16] He was at home with those people 200 years in the past and their blended religion.

[00:29:20] And dealing with Jacob at the end?

[00:29:21] Such compassion.

[00:29:22] Also, all that stained glass.

[00:29:23] Pretty cool.

[00:29:24] Shit.

[00:29:25] Uh, could you imagine being Mary Wiseman and getting that script?

[00:29:27] And, oh, by the way, we need you to report to costuming for your hospital gown for the

[00:29:31] next two weeks.

[00:29:31] Um, also, is Pike regretting this assignment yet?

[00:29:34] Uh, one week almost blown out in the space with a defective helmet.

[00:29:36] This week shot point blank.

[00:29:38] Uh, no wonder by Picard's era captains weren't allowed to leave their ship.

[00:29:41] And giggles.

[00:29:42] I was just trying to imagine Tilly as the most awkward person at some, like, Star Trek

[00:29:47] convention.

[00:29:48] Walking up to, like, the most beautiful attendee and saying, like, hello, gorgeous.

[00:29:52] Before unceremoniously being knocked flat on her ass.

[00:29:55] Um, also, Tilly got me giggling with the running out of sickbay in the wrong direction.

[00:29:58] Nice little add to the script there, Freak.

[00:30:00] All right.

[00:30:01] That's producer John.

[00:30:02] I mean, caller Platy M3 signing off.

[00:30:05] It's, it's impressive how much that actually kind of sounded like John.

[00:30:09] Like, I know it was an effect, but it totally worked.

[00:30:13] Like, if you close your eyes, you can see it.

[00:30:16] Oh yeah.

[00:30:16] Get a few drinks from me.

[00:30:17] I sound just like that.

[00:30:20] But I gotta say.

[00:30:21] So much good stuff there.

[00:30:22] Yeah.

[00:30:22] I did wonder if that was a Freak's touch.

[00:30:24] The, the little run back.

[00:30:25] That was, that was well timed.

[00:30:27] That was good.

[00:30:27] Feels like a Freak's touch.

[00:30:29] Yeah.

[00:30:29] And I agree.

[00:30:30] Pike is an amazing liar.

[00:30:32] Like he has, he comes up with some fish.

[00:30:35] Fibs in the moment that I'm like, that's not bad.

[00:30:38] Little Pike.

[00:30:38] I, uh, I don't know if I'd want to play poker against you.

[00:30:42] Well, I think it fits really well in this episode in particular, because it could be

[00:30:49] argued that most of what he says isn't a lie outside of, you know, we're from the North

[00:30:54] or whatever.

[00:30:54] Cause like, he says, my name is Christopher, right?

[00:30:57] He doesn't say, hi, I'm Chris Pike.

[00:30:59] Like, like I'm Christopher.

[00:31:00] He's just more soft spoken.

[00:31:02] He's a little more, uh, lyrical with his phrasing.

[00:31:06] Like he just knows how to be among people of faith.

[00:31:10] Right.

[00:31:11] He knows how to show deference without necessarily understanding all of the rules in particular.

[00:31:16] He'll put forth the lie.

[00:31:18] Like, oh, this is just our map or whatever it is.

[00:31:20] And then when he realizes the guy's not going to fall for it, he just like totally deflects.

[00:31:24] It's like, yeah, you know what?

[00:31:25] Sorry.

[00:31:25] We didn't mean to be here.

[00:31:26] Sorry.

[00:31:26] Sorry.

[00:31:26] It's just like, yeah, yes.

[00:31:28] Very well done Pike.

[00:31:29] Yeah.

[00:31:30] And I got to say, they all do a good job, right?

[00:31:33] Like Owo shows a ton of respect for this other belief system, despite specifically stating that

[00:31:40] she comes from a family of non-believers.

[00:31:43] Like this is probably where I personally started to fall in love with both Owo and Detmer because

[00:31:50] they both have great moments in this episode.

[00:31:52] And I just, I wrote down in my notes like eight times, like, I love how much everybody respects

[00:31:58] each other's beliefs.

[00:32:00] I did bump a little on that phrasing though.

[00:32:03] My family are non-believers.

[00:32:05] Is that what someone would say then in the future?

[00:32:08] Like, I don't feel like that's what people would say now.

[00:32:10] And I assume it's a more commonplace thing in the future.

[00:32:15] Because usually it's used as derogatory.

[00:32:18] Non-believer.

[00:32:18] Or I don't know, you just say like, yeah, I'm agnostic.

[00:32:20] I'm atheist.

[00:32:21] I take it as closer to saying we're agnostic, which can be used to like soften a conversation,

[00:32:30] right?

[00:32:30] Because if you say I'm atheist, you're telling somebody, I specifically believe you believe

[00:32:36] incorrectly if you're a theistic religion, right?

[00:32:39] So I took it as just an additional layer of how to be respectful about other belief systems,

[00:32:46] because she didn't say like, we don't believe in God.

[00:32:50] She said, oh, we were non-believers, which, you know, she could have said non-spiritual.

[00:32:55] She could have said not religious.

[00:32:57] But it was-

[00:32:57] And language certainly changes over the years.

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:32:59] So it could come back into fashion.

[00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:00] That's true.

[00:33:01] And if anybody has sensitivity training, it's Starfleet.

[00:33:04] And also, it's really funny that a family of non-believers joined a Luddite community.

[00:33:10] Luddites famously of the Bible.

[00:33:12] Right.

[00:33:13] Yeah.

[00:33:14] But I don't know how good Michael is down on the subway mission.

[00:33:18] There's a moment just after the montage history lesson where Pike is just giving her the

[00:33:22] Michael shut up eyes.

[00:33:24] Yeah.

[00:33:25] Yeah.

[00:33:25] Okay.

[00:33:26] We need to get going now.

[00:33:27] My science officer doesn't know when to close her mouth.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:31] And it seemed very important to her to keep bringing up her Vulcan upbringing.

[00:33:35] Yes.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:36] Like she mentioned it twice distinctively in this episode.

[00:33:39] And I was like, does she do it this often?

[00:33:40] Or is this just to show that Pike is the right guy for this job?

[00:33:45] Early in the season to let people know who didn't watch season one.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:49] Yeah.

[00:33:49] I think she eventually got to the right phrasing.

[00:33:53] She just drops it like a brick on those people.

[00:33:57] Like, all right, say my science is religion.

[00:33:59] Or say my religion is science.

[00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:01] How would you explain that to, you know, so it's like, okay, that's a good way to phrase

[00:34:05] that, but is a bad tone to use.

[00:34:08] Like she's always rolling her eyes, like get a load of these people.

[00:34:12] The 11,000 people on that planet are probably all, it sounds like they're all pretty religious.

[00:34:16] Like we don't know yet that there's Jacobs amongst them and they're in hiding.

[00:34:20] Right.

[00:34:20] For a Xeno anthropologist.

[00:34:22] She really did not try to blunt the edge of that.

[00:34:25] Like even a little bit.

[00:34:27] And I know we didn't talk about it because it kind of just comes and goes, but the conversation

[00:34:33] Stamets has again, like you're right, Cam, this episode brings up a lot of season one facts

[00:34:40] just to pepper in in case people have started watching.

[00:34:42] That's a good point.

[00:34:44] Um, and he talks about, obviously I took it as he wanted to see you again in the mycellial

[00:34:50] network, but then they're just like, well, we're not going to talk about this anymore.

[00:34:53] This episode, which knowing what comes and that's, you know, as soon as I saw Tilly's

[00:34:57] imaginary friend, I was like, oh yeah, that's right.

[00:35:01] Yeah.

[00:35:02] Yeah.

[00:35:03] That's, that's definitely a subplot where I'm like, I hope this plays better when I watch

[00:35:06] these back to back and not with months in between.

[00:35:09] Cause that was one that I was just like, what is happening here?

[00:35:11] I do like the little moment where Tilly is just giving blatant exposition or an interior

[00:35:16] monologue to the computer when you're like, why is she doing the stager stuff with the

[00:35:20] rock?

[00:35:20] Oh, she's telling the computers because she's desperately wants to help Stamets out.

[00:35:24] Okay.

[00:35:25] Gotcha.

[00:35:25] Thank you.

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:26] And I mean, there's a lot of people in this cast that can play haunted and distant, but

[00:35:31] Anthony Rapp might be like number one.

[00:35:35] Cause wow.

[00:35:36] Yeah.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:37] I like a cranky, funny, uh, statements better than haunted statements.

[00:35:41] I can't wait till.

[00:35:42] Yeah.

[00:35:43] Yeah.

[00:35:43] The sad Stamets face is heartbreaking.

[00:35:45] Every time I see it, like, man, come on.

[00:35:47] Even his not now Tilly is like, ah, it's, I mean, it's well done.

[00:35:52] I, yeah, I'm not knocking it.

[00:35:54] It's just, it will make me enjoy the, uh, yeah.

[00:35:57] Lighter statements all the more when we get back to them.

[00:35:59] So speaking of establishing character traits, I love that Saru makes sure to note how slender

[00:36:07] his shoulders are.

[00:36:08] Like he not only has threat ganglia, but he still also has his sass ganglia.

[00:36:17] Well, speaking of sass ganglia, I think it's time we hear from another caller.

[00:36:22] How about Marcy?

[00:36:23] Hey guys, it's Marcy from Idle Ride Podcast.

[00:36:26] It's been a while, but I hear you're reviewing New Eden from the second season of Discovery.

[00:36:32] And I'm super excited about this because I haven't watched it in a while.

[00:36:36] And dang, I forgot how much I fangirl over Michael Burnham.

[00:36:40] She's such a great character.

[00:36:41] Jesse, I see you.

[00:36:43] The character got so much shit when it first aired and I absolutely loved her.

[00:36:48] I love, as you know, Xena Warrior Princess.

[00:36:51] And I compared her character to Xena.

[00:36:55] Like that's how much I love Michael Burnham.

[00:36:58] And this episode seals that for me.

[00:37:01] I know it's supposed to be about Pike.

[00:37:02] It's a strange new world podcast, blah, blah, blah.

[00:37:05] But seriously, her mannerisms are really Vulcan because she's culturally Vulcan.

[00:37:11] She's logical.

[00:37:12] She's smart.

[00:37:13] And I just love here that she shows that, yes, she does have integrity.

[00:37:18] And that I really love that she made the decision that she made in season one.

[00:37:22] Like I thought that was interesting that we're seeing a character that has depth.

[00:37:27] And of course, Pike is great in the episode.

[00:37:31] I agree with all the things that you said before.

[00:37:33] I mean, oh, tiny Pike.

[00:37:35] He's so cute.

[00:37:36] And what's with the hair?

[00:37:37] I mean, Michael Burnham's hair is amazing.

[00:37:40] I think he took some notes from Michael for the first season of Strange New Worlds.

[00:37:45] Anyway, thanks guys.

[00:37:47] Bye.

[00:37:48] Marcy, I didn't come on your Fallout podcast and talk about Pikachu.

[00:37:51] Come on.

[00:37:53] What?

[00:37:54] I don't even get the connecting thread.

[00:37:57] Because she came on our Strange New Worlds podcast and talked about Michael.

[00:38:00] Talked about Michael Burnham.

[00:38:01] But we're covering Discovery.

[00:38:05] I know.

[00:38:05] That's the joke, Jezzy.

[00:38:07] Did she cover Pokemon?

[00:38:09] I'm so confused.

[00:38:11] I'm sorry.

[00:38:11] I'm sorry, Cameron.

[00:38:12] I tried.

[00:38:13] But I really like a lot of what Marcy brought up.

[00:38:16] And I think that the influence to her point that these characters have on each other is

[00:38:21] so readily apparent, especially in this season.

[00:38:24] Like we see Saru make an almost immediate decision based on logic, similar to Pike's

[00:38:32] decision to disregard Spock's personal wishes.

[00:38:36] And it kind of shows like, you know, this captain's positive influence on this crew

[00:38:40] is immediately taking hold.

[00:38:42] They're remembering how to have optimism when they're problem solving.

[00:38:46] And, you know, when given a chance to have optimism, they choose to do that.

[00:38:50] But I'm glad you brought up talking about Spock and his issues.

[00:38:53] They are building up to the Spock reveal so masterfully.

[00:38:57] Like they're doing a perfect.

[00:38:58] We hear his voice.

[00:38:59] Then we hear his voice.

[00:39:00] The next episode saying exactly the same thing.

[00:39:03] Then we talk about him a little bit.

[00:39:04] And that's all we get in this episode.

[00:39:06] Like it's a good job of like building the anticipation.

[00:39:10] Do you guys remember which episode he finally shows up in?

[00:39:14] Well, I know we're going to see a video of him before we see him.

[00:39:17] Right.

[00:39:18] Right.

[00:39:18] But I think four or five or six.

[00:39:21] Is that?

[00:39:21] I can't remember.

[00:39:23] That's why I asked.

[00:39:24] I bet it's halfway.

[00:39:25] I bet it's six.

[00:39:25] So I'm going to put my bet down on six now.

[00:39:28] We'll find out.

[00:39:29] Yeah.

[00:39:29] I'm going to say five.

[00:39:30] Because it's 12 episodes, right?

[00:39:32] The season.

[00:39:32] 14.

[00:39:33] 14.

[00:39:34] Oh, 14.

[00:39:34] I'll go seven.

[00:39:35] I guess the seven.

[00:39:36] No, you got six.

[00:39:37] I said half before I said six.

[00:39:40] All right.

[00:39:40] Fine.

[00:39:40] Six.

[00:39:41] And it's closest without going over.

[00:39:42] Okay.

[00:39:43] There we go.

[00:39:46] That's fair.

[00:39:47] I do remember thinking in the first season or the first episode, the first time I watched

[00:39:52] it when they were like, yeah, Spike's on Spike.

[00:39:54] Still doing it.

[00:39:55] Two years later, still doing it.

[00:39:58] Spock's on vacation.

[00:40:00] I was like, oh, oh, I guess he's not going to be in this season.

[00:40:03] I guess that's how they're getting around the Spock thing.

[00:40:04] He's on leave.

[00:40:05] And like, what a flimsy cover story.

[00:40:09] Like, and such an opposite of the truth cover story.

[00:40:13] Yeah.

[00:40:13] I do love it.

[00:40:14] Like, we just opened this episode with Spike being like, so I might have fibbed a little

[00:40:17] bit at the end of last episode.

[00:40:20] Which is a good parallel because Michael fibs a little bit in this episode.

[00:40:25] Well, I think this whole episode is about truth and honesty and, you know, when you tell the

[00:40:29] truth and when you don't.

[00:40:30] And I'll talk more about that later.

[00:40:33] Cameron picked a Sesame Street song for this episode, I think.

[00:40:38] But as far as like character parallels go, like, I also really like that we see Pike being

[00:40:44] a little misguided in his desire to follow the rules and respect this culture.

[00:40:50] Like, this is one of the few times in Trek that we've seen a planet's culture include

[00:40:55] diverse viewpoints within it.

[00:40:57] Like, usually it's everybody on this planet thinks this and everybody on this planet dresses

[00:41:01] this way.

[00:41:02] And here you have people in the same town that don't believe the same thing.

[00:41:06] So it's like, hey man, you're never going to make everyone happy.

[00:41:10] Like, you may as well come here to do what you did.

[00:41:13] Come here to do what you came here.

[00:41:15] You may as well do what you came here to do.

[00:41:18] Wow, that was difficult.

[00:41:20] But it's nice to see, you know, like, even the captain can get a little caught up in protocol

[00:41:25] and almost fumble some things.

[00:41:28] Well, I'll just, I really like this episode.

[00:41:30] I like this episode a lot.

[00:41:32] I do remember liking it back in the day too, but I hope I continue to find myself really

[00:41:38] enjoying these season two episodes the way I have these past two.

[00:41:41] What I like a lot about this episode is the stuff down on the planet.

[00:41:44] I love the donut too, but there's some really good stuff there.

[00:41:47] There's, you know, I didn't love it when Pike comes out and starts persecuting like

[00:41:52] the one man of science in the village.

[00:41:54] Like, of course, immediately you're like, Jacob's the man.

[00:41:56] Jacob's awesome.

[00:41:57] You guys should work with him and he just comes out and accuses them of stealing.

[00:42:01] But I thought it was a good character moment.

[00:42:03] And then his and Michael's debate about the prime directive.

[00:42:06] But of course, I am like, yes, let's go down and see, uh, see Jacob and give him the truth.

[00:42:10] Also the moment where Michael, after being given the direct order not to reveal anything,

[00:42:16] has to kind of lie to get while Pike's life is on the line.

[00:42:19] Like there's some really good subtle eye acting from her there because it's a quick scene and

[00:42:24] she just gives the line, Hey, we need the church.

[00:42:25] But there's some flashes on her face where like, she is struggling with us right now.

[00:42:30] Yeah.

[00:42:31] It's, it's very, very well done.

[00:42:34] And I think that could be the Frank's part of it, right?

[00:42:37] Like he's really taking the time to focus on the faces and the eyes and let the characters

[00:42:42] and the actors do their jobs.

[00:42:45] Cause I would think in sci-fi, it would be easy to just, you know, rush through that part

[00:42:50] of it and be like, all right, get to the beaming, get to Pike's Captain America moment.

[00:42:54] Like, so I, I'm really grateful that we got this from this episode.

[00:43:00] Yeah.

[00:43:01] And speaking of rushing through it, it was jarring the first time I watched it and it was jarring

[00:43:06] this time when all of a sudden it's like, Hey, the planet's in danger.

[00:43:08] Like, wait, wait.

[00:43:09] Yes.

[00:43:10] I looked away for two seconds and now all of a sudden the planet is 64 minutes away from,

[00:43:15] from total extinction event.

[00:43:16] I'm like, what happened?

[00:43:17] Yeah.

[00:43:19] It was like two scenes later.

[00:43:21] I'm like, Oh wait, they're in danger now.

[00:43:23] Oh, 64 minutes from now.

[00:43:24] Oh, okay.

[00:43:24] It did come fast, but.

[00:43:26] But watching Kayla get excited to execute her drift and then immediately bummed when she

[00:43:32] realizes she can't just, it makes me love her even more.

[00:43:36] And I'm going to need Detmer teaching starship pilots in the Starfleet Academy show, especially

[00:43:41] if we can't have Ortegas doing that for like temporal mechanical reasons.

[00:43:47] That would be amazing if Ortegas is in Starfleet Academy and they just don't explain how she

[00:43:52] got there.

[00:43:53] And we're just watching strange new worlds for like five more seasons going like, when

[00:43:57] is she going to time travel?

[00:43:57] How does the time travel thing happen?

[00:43:59] Yeah.

[00:43:59] That would be amazing.

[00:44:00] That would be, that, that would be a baller move, a pimp move.

[00:44:04] And maybe that's how we get David Cronenberg into strange new worlds.

[00:44:10] Oh yeah.

[00:44:12] What if Ortegas is Daniels?

[00:44:17] There's a lot of layers there.

[00:44:18] Poor discovery writers.

[00:44:20] They, they really tried to project respectability onto Elon Musk and we're proven wrong so quickly.

[00:44:29] I know.

[00:44:30] This is why you use Zefram Cochran, Sarek or Dr. Daystrom for all in universe honorific namesakes.

[00:44:38] Oh, come on.

[00:44:39] I noticed that it was like, Oh, season two, there's still, I mean, back then I was still

[00:44:43] on the Musk train back then too.

[00:44:45] I got a, he hadn't started a mass posting misinformation yet.

[00:44:50] Yeah.

[00:44:50] Exactly.

[00:44:51] He was, I mean, part of me assumes he's always been a Nazi and was just better at hiding

[00:44:57] it, but it's like, you don't do this in sci-fi for a reason.

[00:45:03] Like, yeah, but we don't complain when they do it to people we like.

[00:45:06] Like, I mean, even then, did you complain when Stacey Abrams was the Federation president?

[00:45:11] No, but they also weren't like, here's Federation president Abrams.

[00:45:16] Like, I get it, but even that adds a, like a dating to it.

[00:45:22] Right.

[00:45:22] Like when you watch something that has something like that in it, you're like, Oh, this is

[00:45:27] from 2017 or, Oh, this is from 1983.

[00:45:30] Like, which again, I don't know that in general, that's an issue, but it's arguably a fairly

[00:45:39] significant break of immersion.

[00:45:42] Yeah.

[00:45:43] Yeah.

[00:45:43] But I mean, there, we always have things like our amazing callers, like Abby here to, uh,

[00:45:49] bring us right back into that immersion.

[00:45:51] Hey, open Pike.

[00:45:53] It's Abby summer from the first flight podcast.

[00:45:55] Something that I wanted to bring up about new Eden and that I think every single time I rewatched

[00:46:01] discovery and felt even more so in my current rewatch is how much I love the dynamic between

[00:46:09] Saru and Tilly.

[00:46:10] Now I love Saru in general, but Saru and Tilly, this mentor mentee later on in further seasons,

[00:46:17] we see that becoming even more, but these are the first moments where you really see how much

[00:46:22] they care about each other and understand each other.

[00:46:26] And it's just a cool dynamic.

[00:46:28] And this episode shows it so well.

[00:46:30] So I wanted to make sure that we highlighted that.

[00:46:33] Can't wait to keep going.

[00:46:34] I love discovery.

[00:46:35] Hope you and yours are well.

[00:46:36] Talk soon.

[00:46:37] I do have written down Tilly rocks my socks.

[00:46:40] Uh, just, I love Tilly and this is a great Tilly episode and I, yeah, she's easily my

[00:46:46] favorite character, uh, main character on discovery and just, I think one of the best

[00:46:50] Star Trek characters ever.

[00:46:52] Yeah.

[00:46:52] So you have socks made of dark matter.

[00:46:55] I, uh, she definitely have to do to keep the odor in.

[00:46:59] She, she takes that Wesley Crusher character archetype and makes it more lovable in my opinion.

[00:47:06] Like you've got the prodigy here.

[00:47:10] She's, I'm sure this is a writing function, but she's slightly less annoying than Wesley's

[00:47:15] character can be.

[00:47:17] And there is, but I'm sure there are still people out there that are like, Oh, Tilly

[00:47:21] is so annoying.

[00:47:22] Right.

[00:47:22] But it's like, this fits in the kind of character relationship that we're used to on Star Trek.

[00:47:27] And I have to agree a hundred percent, Abby, like that having Saru and Tilly be the kind

[00:47:33] of Geordi Wesley dynamic here is a really, really nice touch.

[00:47:39] And I mean, character relationships are what discovery does best, right?

[00:47:43] Like that's their bread and butter.

[00:47:46] And then you get all these gorgeous visuals on top of everything.

[00:47:50] And I, I gotta say, I'm glad to have you back, Abby.

[00:47:53] I want you to know, I haven't been watching necessarily in exact order, but I have been

[00:48:00] dipping my toes into the Scott Bakula pool and getting through some enterprise episodes

[00:48:07] because I partially, because I feel like it's my duty and you know, I gotta see all the

[00:48:13] Star Trek eventually.

[00:48:14] And that's kind of the last thing I haven't seen.

[00:48:16] So that's where we're at.

[00:48:17] Watching Enterprise as a Starfleet officer's fourth or fifth duty, Jesse.

[00:48:22] I'm not going to do a Scott Bakula impression because people will get mad at me.

[00:48:27] But I, I am starting to see the value that people are getting from Enterprise.

[00:48:33] Check out, check out Abby's show, First Flight.

[00:48:36] Yeah.

[00:48:37] Yeah.

[00:48:37] First Flight's a great show.

[00:48:39] Do you think Tilly is a strange new world's character trapped in discovery?

[00:48:46] I see what you mean, but I don't know that I would agree.

[00:48:50] I disagree a little with my own premise, but.

[00:48:52] Yeah.

[00:48:52] I like, I get it and maybe partially, but like she's a little too Tilly for strange new worlds,

[00:49:02] I think.

[00:49:02] Well, I was, I thought of it cause I was thinking about like how Ahura is sort of the Tilly

[00:49:07] in strange new worlds.

[00:49:08] And it's interesting that Ahura almost has more trauma than Tilly does.

[00:49:12] It's not that strange new worlds shies away from trauma by any means.

[00:49:16] It's full of characters with trauma.

[00:49:17] So, uh, yeah, it was just, I wonder how she would play in the strange new worlds universe

[00:49:23] and she'd fit in or feel off.

[00:49:25] She would fit in, I think because of Pike and her relationship with Pike.

[00:49:31] But I don't mean this to sound harsh even a little bit, but I'm glad that we don't have

[00:49:36] like a child prodigy style character in strange new worlds.

[00:49:39] Like, yes, Ahura is amazing and young, but I don't get that vibe from her of like, oh,

[00:49:47] she's 15, you know, or like she's emotionally 15, which I'm, I'm happy for.

[00:49:53] Um, I don't think that it's a detriment to discovery and I really don't even think it's a detriment

[00:49:58] to TNG, but we've seen that, you know, like, well, and I don't know if this is how you meant

[00:50:05] it, but yeah, I agree.

[00:50:07] And I take, take it because discovery feels like it's examining the whole human experience,

[00:50:12] right?

[00:50:12] Like it's looking at every aspect of being human and being alive from yeah.

[00:50:18] Childhood, uh, prodigies to everything.

[00:50:20] And strange new worlds is more of a workplace competency sort of look how great all these

[00:50:27] officers do.

[00:50:28] Yeah.

[00:50:28] Right.

[00:50:29] And, uh, yeah.

[00:50:30] Yeah.

[00:50:30] Which in that case, I would say jet Reno is the most appropriate could, could transfer to

[00:50:36] the strange new worlds enterprise.

[00:50:37] The easiest.

[00:50:38] Not me.

[00:50:39] I think Spock could transfer to the strange new worlds.

[00:50:42] I think in a few episodes, five episodes, if I'm right, we're going to have some conversations

[00:50:49] on the differences between the Spock and our Spock boy.

[00:50:53] Oh, Hey man.

[00:50:53] Yeah.

[00:50:54] That I remember.

[00:50:55] Yeah.

[00:50:55] He goes on a journey with a capital G wait, but speaking of personal journeys, watching

[00:51:06] Pike, like give this truth, this moment of truth to Jacob.

[00:51:14] Hmm.

[00:51:15] It's like a moment of salvation even, but it's through science.

[00:51:19] Hmm.

[00:51:20] When, when Pike has been resisting doing that the whole episode, it just, it really works

[00:51:26] for me.

[00:51:27] Like it's his acknowledgement of not every message is going to hit every person the same

[00:51:32] way.

[00:51:32] I am capable of understanding multiple viewpoints.

[00:51:35] I need to do this.

[00:51:36] And then he has this like Prometheus exchange and Jacob's reaction actually made me tear up

[00:51:42] a little bit.

[00:51:43] Like.

[00:51:43] Oh yeah.

[00:51:44] Yeah.

[00:51:44] The resulting light within the church might be a little bit heavy handed as a visual metaphor,

[00:51:49] but it is effective.

[00:51:51] This is discovery.

[00:51:52] They do that.

[00:51:52] They do heavy handed.

[00:51:54] It's effective and affecting nonetheless.

[00:51:56] Of all the, you know, the one person in the civilization who gets to know the whole truth about what's out there.

[00:52:02] The different scenarios we've seen.

[00:52:04] I mean, we talked about one recently on TNG where the guy just killed himself.

[00:52:09] You know, they, we've seen different reactions to finding out the truth about this, you know,

[00:52:14] Starfleet and all that.

[00:52:15] And it is, this is, I think the most touching of those, of those scenarios I've seen.

[00:52:22] And I remember like, oh yeah, I really liked the end of this episode.

[00:52:25] Yeah.

[00:52:26] I, uh, I teared up too during it.

[00:52:27] Yeah.

[00:52:28] And it was on, I think one of Jacob's reactions when that hit me.

[00:52:31] Yes.

[00:52:31] Yeah.

[00:52:32] This whole episode, that whole new Eden part reminded me a lot of thine own self.

[00:52:36] Um, and this moment kind of reminded me of the shot of data looking out the window at the

[00:52:40] stars, kind of a very similar vibe.

[00:52:42] What I thought was interesting with that last scene though, is, you know, I feel like the

[00:52:46] writers could have easily given it to Michael as they did to Pike.

[00:52:50] And it's interesting that they chose Pike because this is, I feel like the first moment

[00:52:54] in season two where Pike kind of takes the lead as a character and has that big moment

[00:52:59] at the end.

[00:52:59] And that, that was an interesting choice.

[00:53:01] Yeah.

[00:53:02] I think it makes the most sense too, because of how much he was resisting it earlier.

[00:53:07] Like they're showing us that like, not only can he make mistakes, but he can admit those

[00:53:12] mistakes and then go rectify them personally.

[00:53:15] Like person to person, eye to eye.

[00:53:18] I chose goofy movies eye to eye for my song.

[00:53:22] No, I'm kidding.

[00:53:24] But that movie does have a banger soundtrack.

[00:53:27] Like that movie has an amazing, no joke.

[00:53:30] Yeah.

[00:53:31] Another Pike moment I really liked here is he mentions context to Michael and she actually

[00:53:38] uses that comment to justify going back to the planet to give them the truth.

[00:53:42] But it's also a great parallel to Lorca telling Michael that context is for Kings.

[00:53:50] And she's like, oh, I know all about context, man.

[00:53:53] In fact, here's how you should apply that.

[00:53:55] And it, it just works so well.

[00:53:58] Like it draws on what's come before it sets up what comes after.

[00:54:02] This is a really well written episode.

[00:54:06] It is.

[00:54:07] It is.

[00:54:08] And I mean, Jacob hooks up that power cell really well.

[00:54:12] And Pike just knows how to use 200 year old technology.

[00:54:15] It's like they're engineers.

[00:54:16] Oh, hey, our buddy engineer Mark called into this episode too.

[00:54:19] So let's hear from him.

[00:54:20] You're so good at this, John.

[00:54:22] Context.

[00:54:23] Hi, open Pike night.

[00:54:24] It's engineer Mark.

[00:54:26] And we're talking about new Eden today.

[00:54:28] And I do have some random thoughts.

[00:54:31] On the episode, there is the mystery of the red thing.

[00:54:34] Where is our damn red thing?

[00:54:36] And also the mystery of Spock that they're still figuring out.

[00:54:40] I actually, I know you guys have talked about this.

[00:54:43] I actually dig Wilderness Spock.

[00:54:45] It's a good look for him.

[00:54:48] And talking on looks, you also have Pike now in the actual disco uniform.

[00:54:53] And that really changes things, doesn't it?

[00:54:54] He really fits in with the crew pretty good.

[00:54:58] And then during the episode, there is that whole bit with the phaser where he dives on the phaser.

[00:55:02] Yeah, we haven't got to that yet.

[00:55:03] It must not have been set for Potato Pot, huh?

[00:55:08] And on the subject of the episode and the way he handles it,

[00:55:12] on General Order 1, if they came out there by space travel, does it still really apply?

[00:55:19] Even Pike bends it a bit at the end there in being compassionate to the one person who is ready to hear the truth.

[00:55:25] I'd like to hear what you guys have to say on that.

[00:55:28] Thanks and live long and prosper.

[00:55:30] Man, I always love a classic Undiscovered Country reference.

[00:55:34] Thank you, Mark.

[00:55:35] Well, and this is a really good point, Mark, because like, yes, they, or rather, no, they didn't come on a spaceship.

[00:55:43] But they know that some kind of celestial thing changed where they were in the universe.

[00:55:52] So it's like, I think that gray area really is where the episode plays, right?

[00:55:57] Because you can see either argument and that's when Trek is at its best, right?

[00:56:01] It's not when you're like, well, that person's clearly wrong.

[00:56:04] It's when you're thinking, hey, both of these people have a good point and solid arguments to back it up.

[00:56:11] And I really like that about this.

[00:56:14] And I mean, having Michael almost directly call that idea out, right?

[00:56:20] Like, look, man, I don't know if we should call it an angel because like, that's a little, you know.

[00:56:26] But like, Red Angel is a killer good name for a MacGuffin.

[00:56:32] And I love the suit and I love the stuff we get with it later.

[00:56:38] But it, you know, how many times can I say everything in this episode fits together like a perfect stained glass window?

[00:56:46] Yeah, I did love the ethical dilemma there because, I mean, they made a good point.

[00:56:51] Yes, they came from a pre-warp civilization and they believe it was divine intervention that transported them.

[00:56:58] At the same time, they were still aware of space travel, that that was a thing.

[00:57:03] They're aware they're on a different planet.

[00:57:06] If Vulcans had come down five years later and given them warp and they had found them on their planet,

[00:57:12] they wouldn't have had a problem picking them up and being like, hey, guess what happened in the last five years?

[00:57:16] So where would you draw the line?

[00:57:17] One generation, two generations?

[00:57:19] At what point do they become their own society?

[00:57:21] Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a very well-constructed kind of gray area for us to examine and debate there.

[00:57:29] Which, when you consider how many times across all of Star Trek they've done a, here's a prime directive dilemma.

[00:57:38] Like, it's impressive to me that they can still give us a good one.

[00:57:42] Right?

[00:57:42] Yeah.

[00:57:43] Something we haven't seen before, something, a new way to consider it.

[00:57:46] Well, and they're not all that gray either.

[00:57:49] A lot of them were like, yeah, this is what you should do.

[00:57:51] Which, those ones are always fun to look back on.

[00:57:53] I know we've talked about it on other shows.

[00:57:55] Like, yeah, no, this one's the right choice.

[00:57:58] Always.

[00:58:01] So there just had to be conflict.

[00:58:02] So what have you had to make a dumbass argument for something else?

[00:58:05] We get it.

[00:58:06] We get it.

[00:58:06] Exactly.

[00:58:06] Well, and like, had Pike not come back to Jacob and explained everything, like, do you think his hair and smile get added to the stained glass?

[00:58:16] Like, kind of some who watches the watchers parallels there.

[00:58:20] Like, oh, it's the Pike.

[00:58:22] Like, you know, like, I, yeah, I mean, for risk of saying it all over again, like, it just, everything about this hangs together so well.

[00:58:30] And I'm kind of getting back to where I was like, was, was season two my favorite disco season?

[00:58:37] It might've been.

[00:58:38] Yeah.

[00:58:38] I mean, based on these first two episodes, I'm feeling it, but I also remember some of my thoughts later on.

[00:58:44] So I'm just going to, it's going to be an interesting journey guys.

[00:58:46] Yes, it is.

[00:58:47] It gets wacky.

[00:58:49] The season goes places.

[00:58:49] It does.

[00:58:50] Yeah.

[00:58:50] And I think I've said before out loud that season one actually might be my favorite season.

[00:58:56] Cause you guys know me.

[00:58:58] I don't care that the Klingons are different.

[00:58:59] I love the way that season is set up.

[00:59:01] I love Lorca's whole deal.

[00:59:04] That's where we get Georgiou.

[00:59:05] Like I, there's, I don't know.

[00:59:07] We'll talk about this at the end of the season.

[00:59:10] Guys.

[00:59:11] I like Dr.

[00:59:11] Pollard.

[00:59:12] I wish we had gotten more of her.

[00:59:13] Right.

[00:59:14] She sticks around through season five.

[00:59:16] If I'm not mistaken.

[00:59:16] She's always just like a line every four episodes.

[00:59:20] Yeah.

[00:59:20] Yeah.

[00:59:21] She's definitely the nurse O'Gawa parallel here.

[00:59:25] Like we know her, we love her.

[00:59:27] She's always there.

[00:59:28] She is not frequently featured.

[00:59:30] Yeah.

[00:59:31] Yeah.

[00:59:33] And speaking of not frequently featured the whole may storyline.

[00:59:37] I was like, I kind, as soon as I saw her, I'm like, oh yeah, there is this whole thing.

[00:59:42] And they're like, wait, when do we find out the reveal right now?

[00:59:45] Okay.

[00:59:45] Now we know that this is a mystery to be.

[00:59:48] Here's the goosebumps ghost story twist moment.

[00:59:51] Like it was so classic.

[00:59:52] I loved it.

[00:59:53] It worked totally.

[00:59:53] It was just such a classic ghost story.

[00:59:56] He's been dead all along.

[00:59:58] What?

[00:59:59] Almost with the same beats because like when people come into the room, she moves out of

[01:00:03] the way.

[01:00:04] So you don't really notice that she's not touching anybody else or interacting with anybody else.

[01:00:09] But yeah, I, and I love the actor they cast in her role.

[01:00:13] She, she matches Telly's energy so well.

[01:00:17] She does.

[01:00:18] She doesn't look anything like the young girl who played her, but well, that's fine.

[01:00:21] I mean, uh, Jesse, there's even a character here, Stamets, who says, I see dead people.

[01:00:28] Right.

[01:00:29] That's how classic a ghost story.

[01:00:30] This is.

[01:00:31] It's it.

[01:00:31] It's the six sixths in space.

[01:00:33] It's the best of all worlds.

[01:00:36] Like we always talk on our main coverage of strange new worlds, how we love that they play

[01:00:42] with genre.

[01:00:42] They do the same thing here.

[01:00:44] It's just not like quite so much of a pastiche, right?

[01:00:48] It's like, here's a subplot.

[01:00:50] That's purely genre worked into this sci-fi show, which, you know, they call genre in

[01:00:56] the business.

[01:00:56] So it's, it's like genre on a genre.

[01:00:59] Yes.

[01:01:00] Yeah.

[01:01:00] And if you want, I mean, if you want to see more, she's great in the expanse also.

[01:01:05] So she's one of the many, many performers who were both in both discovery and the expanse.

[01:01:10] But does that show have any space stuff in it, John?

[01:01:12] Cause I like space stuff.

[01:01:14] Okay.

[01:01:14] Yeah.

[01:01:15] Just a little bit of space stuff.

[01:01:16] But is there zero gravity sex?

[01:01:20] Uh, yeah, actually.

[01:01:22] Yeah.

[01:01:22] That's one of the few things I remember.

[01:01:24] Yeah.

[01:01:25] Oh, I thought you were talking about supernova starring Bobby's favorite actor.

[01:01:33] So we've all seen supernova now.

[01:01:35] We've all seen, I mean, it's been decades, but yes.

[01:01:37] Thanks.

[01:01:38] Thanks to greatest track.

[01:01:39] I have now seen supernova.

[01:01:40] Hell yeah.

[01:01:41] Hell yeah.

[01:01:42] It was fun.

[01:01:43] It wasn't great, but it was a ton of fun.

[01:01:46] Exactly.

[01:01:47] Exactly.

[01:01:47] And Spader rocks in that movie.

[01:01:50] Spader is way too much Spader for that movie and it works somehow.

[01:01:54] Yeah.

[01:01:55] All right.

[01:01:55] Before we get too distracted, we do have one last caller tonight.

[01:01:58] Here is our friend Melanie.

[01:02:00] Hi, guys.

[01:02:01] Here's Melanie.

[01:02:02] Yeah.

[01:02:03] I love this episode.

[01:02:04] I have watched it at least ten times.

[01:02:06] It starts with Spock talking about his nightmares and Chris and Michael discussing them.

[01:02:11] We get another signal and need to jump there.

[01:02:13] It's Pike's first.

[01:02:14] Let's jump and black alert.

[01:02:16] Awesome.

[01:02:17] We also see that he got the couch for the ready room.

[01:02:20] It seems that Pike has huddled in a bit now.

[01:02:22] There are many great scenes and good dialogues about the church, Channel or the One,

[01:02:26] citing Shakespeare, Clark's third lore and, well, Pike knows his stuff.

[01:02:31] It doesn't hurt the episode either that the costumes are hot.

[01:02:36] I love them.

[01:02:37] And I love them in the church.

[01:02:39] The mixture of different earth religions is fantastic.

[01:02:41] I could find myself believing in that.

[01:02:44] The way they have two stories threaded together is wonderful.

[01:02:47] Tilly's story is also great.

[01:02:49] The way she figures out how to deal with the debris using the asteroid is just great.

[01:02:54] The other story with Jacob is excellent and I feel with him.

[01:02:58] And then there is the exploding phaser.

[01:03:00] My fangirl heart is hurt with Pike there.

[01:03:03] But Michael, though doubting his decision to stick to Channel or the One,

[01:03:07] deals with it in a way honoring his decision and takes him back to disco.

[01:03:12] The ending is incredible.

[01:03:13] Pike beaming down screws Channel or the One and trades the helmet camera with the battery.

[01:03:18] He tells Jacob about the Federation.

[01:03:20] I am so sorry for Jacob that they can't go with them.

[01:03:23] But Pike gives him hope for the future.

[01:03:26] It hurts a lot about him.

[01:03:27] Pike always tries to find the best solution for everyone.

[01:03:31] Live long and prosper.

[01:03:32] I'm really glad you brought up Pike's first jump because that's a moment that's well played,

[01:03:38] but it's not like overplayed and people aren't like too, you know,

[01:03:44] navel-gazy about it, I think is the term.

[01:03:46] And the fact that Saru is the one who gets to say you never forget your first jump.

[01:03:50] Like, yeah, that was it was a good choice to have him make that quip.

[01:03:53] And I think I can speak for everyone on this podcast when I say we all immediately thought

[01:03:59] of the hit movie Mortal Kombat Annihilation where they jump to Outworld and the character says,

[01:04:06] why do I feel like I just got microwaved?

[01:04:11] You guys remember that, right?

[01:04:14] I was thinking of the Battlestar Galactica miniseries when they did a bunch of dolly zooms for the jumps.

[01:04:19] It's like, wow, you're really dining out on this, aren't you?

[01:04:23] Okay.

[01:04:23] I was just thinking about the costumes like Melanie talked about.

[01:04:26] And for some reason, those away costumes and when Pike's hair starts, like it gets just, you know,

[01:04:31] just the right kind of messy where it's falling in front of us for it.

[01:04:33] I was like, if he has to put a saddle on me, I consider it.

[01:04:38] I thought maybe you were going to bring up the episode where he loses his memory in Strange New Worlds, Cameron.

[01:04:43] But yeah, no, that's a that's a direction you could go.

[01:04:46] Yeah.

[01:04:47] All I'm saying is Frakes knows how to shoot Anson Mount.

[01:04:50] He does.

[01:04:51] Yeah, he does.

[01:04:52] And I'm looking forward to that season three murder mystery episode.

[01:04:56] How man, how hard is it to shoot Anson Mount?

[01:04:59] Come on.

[01:05:00] I mean, come on.

[01:05:01] In this episode, Anson Mount shoots himself.

[01:05:03] Seriously, it's so easy.

[01:05:05] Even Captain Pike could do it.

[01:05:07] Yeah.

[01:05:09] But also, like, this is a culture full of farmers, right?

[01:05:15] Wouldn't they have taught their children, like, hey, if you see a tool that you don't know how to use, do not touch.

[01:05:22] Like, not pick up and start pressing buttons.

[01:05:25] Like, come on.

[01:05:26] Oh, man.

[01:05:27] I mean, I get it.

[01:05:29] But I was like, if I were her father, I would be so angry with her.

[01:05:32] So how easy is it to set a phaser to self-destruct?

[01:05:35] I mean, pretty easy, especially if you've seen the cage, right?

[01:05:40] Like, number one, like, flips a switch.

[01:05:42] And she's like, all right, everybody run away.

[01:05:47] Oh, do you guys have any other notes about this episode besides how just damn good it is?

[01:05:52] No.

[01:05:53] I did want to say it was really cool to see former Open Pike Night guest Kirsten Beyer in the credits yet again.

[01:06:03] Go listen to our back catalog.

[01:06:05] I'm sure you have, but tell your friends.

[01:06:06] And Akiva as well was story buying.

[01:06:08] I could tell because that's a very classic TOS story.

[01:06:12] Oh, yeah.

[01:06:13] He is.

[01:06:13] Absolutely.

[01:06:14] He is all over this season.

[01:06:16] Yeah.

[01:06:16] And just credit where it's due.

[01:06:17] It is Bahia Watson, who plays the older version of May.

[01:06:20] She's the one in the experience.

[01:06:22] Gotcha.

[01:06:22] Yeah.

[01:06:24] Well, we have carried over our Discovery Season 5 coverage tradition of each of us picking a song that we feel represents this episode the best.

[01:06:35] Cam went first last time.

[01:06:37] Who wants...

[01:06:37] Should I go first this time?

[01:06:38] I think you should.

[01:06:39] Jesse, you want to go?

[01:06:39] Okay.

[01:06:42] You know, there was a, I think, pretty obvious choice for this song for this episode.

[01:06:48] But I decided to go in another direction.

[01:06:50] And I really, really liked the first scene between Michael and Pike when they're talking and he's, you know, being like, come on, I'm the cool stepdad.

[01:06:59] You can tell me anything you need to.

[01:07:01] And she, I like that they flash back to show us what she's thinking about.

[01:07:08] But she doesn't tell him because she thinks it's just a dream.

[01:07:12] Just a dream.

[01:07:14] Just a dream.

[01:07:15] There's a lot of songs that are about dreams.

[01:07:17] Yeah.

[01:07:18] But it's obviously Losing My Religion by R.E.M.

[01:07:22] I mean, Jesse called it a little bit earlier.

[01:07:25] It's like, yes, that is immediately what I thought of.

[01:07:27] I'm like, that song fits this episode so perfectly.

[01:07:32] Yeah.

[01:07:33] And it's a great song.

[01:07:34] I went back and listened to it.

[01:07:35] Like, yeah, I know it's obvious.

[01:07:37] I know probably one of you guys chose it, if not both.

[01:07:41] But I love it.

[01:07:42] I mean, the whole church becomes a spotlight at the end.

[01:07:45] Yeah.

[01:07:46] Is someone in a corner at a point?

[01:07:48] In their own little corner of the universe.

[01:07:51] There you go.

[01:07:52] Yeah.

[01:07:52] So I was immediately like, oh, I should use Faith by George Michael.

[01:07:57] And then I was like, right.

[01:07:59] John already chose Faith, but he chose the worst frigging version of that song that has

[01:08:06] ever been made.

[01:08:07] Seriously, if you're not a patron, I highly recommend you pay the $2.

[01:08:11] Go listen to our Discovery Season 5 coverage.

[01:08:14] It was a ton of fun.

[01:08:15] Jesse, you had to be a high school student in like 1999, 1998 to appreciate that version

[01:08:22] of that song.

[01:08:22] My bad for being 10.

[01:08:24] But I...

[01:08:25] I was listening to REM's Losing My Religion when I was in high school in 1996, 1998.

[01:08:30] But I really feel like you can hear the smile on John when he tells us that's his pick for

[01:08:36] that episode in Season 5.

[01:08:38] So like, seriously, go listen to it.

[01:08:40] It's really good.

[01:08:42] All right.

[01:08:42] Let's go next.

[01:08:43] Jesse, Kim?

[01:08:44] Go ahead, Jesse.

[01:08:45] All right.

[01:08:46] So because I couldn't use Faith by George Michael, and I did go listen to Losing My Religion,

[01:08:53] John, after you mentioned it, because you were like, you guys probably picked this.

[01:08:56] And I was like, oh, it's...

[01:08:57] Oh, no, it's definitely this.

[01:08:59] You know what?

[01:08:59] It's a good song.

[01:09:00] And I listened to it.

[01:09:01] But I, you know, I kind of stuck to my brand here.

[01:09:05] And I chose an All That Remains song called The Air That I Breathe.

[01:09:10] It has lyrics like, I am a mortal man, but I'm not falling.

[01:09:15] I'm not broken yet, but I'll hold tight to my beliefs.

[01:09:19] And it is said slightly more aggressively than that in the song itself, as you will hear.

[01:09:25] But I think it stands.

[01:09:27] It really, to me, speaks to every character here.

[01:09:31] We've got Pike saying, no, I believe in the...

[01:09:33] Well, it's not called the Prime Directive yet, but I believe in General Order One,

[01:09:36] and I believe in our mission.

[01:09:38] Michael is saying, okay, well, I believe in science and getting shit done, so let's go do that.

[01:09:44] Then you have all these people on this planet who really believe in their choice

[01:09:47] to reject technology and become a faith-based society.

[01:09:50] And you have Jacob living what I can assume is an uncomfortable but not bad life within that

[01:09:58] society, and he sticks to those beliefs even though he knows it's just him.

[01:10:03] So my choice this week is The Air That I Breathe by All That Remains.

[01:10:07] Be looking forward to checking that one out.

[01:10:09] I like it.

[01:10:10] Like I said, what I honed in on was the themes of truth and honesty and when are you honest

[01:10:17] with someone, when do you hold back the truth?

[01:10:19] I feel like that was set up in the very first scene, like John talked about between Michael

[01:10:23] and Pike.

[01:10:25] And then at the end when Pike says, yeah, I had to come and give you certainty, it would

[01:10:30] be that doubt that would eat away at me.

[01:10:32] Among other things, that's all over this episode, and I looked at a few songs and decided to go

[01:10:38] a different direction because none of them really sounded like they would fit at the end

[01:10:43] of this episode.

[01:10:43] But what song I would want to hear played over the credits of this episode is David

[01:10:49] Bowie's Starman.

[01:10:50] There's a starman waiting in the sky.

[01:10:52] He'd like to come and meet us, but he thinks he'd blow our mind.

[01:10:56] Anson Mount.

[01:10:57] Wow.

[01:10:58] Christopher Pike is the starman, and Jacob is singing to him in the style of David Bowie

[01:11:04] is how I envisioned that pick.

[01:11:07] All right, Cameron, you get one per season.

[01:11:08] Are you sure you want to use it this early?

[01:11:10] Oh, wait.

[01:11:11] You don't get to hold me down, Jesse.

[01:11:13] No, I would never try to do that.

[01:11:16] We'll see.

[01:11:16] You keep track of how many.

[01:11:17] You showed incredible restraint when we did season five, so I'm very proud of you.

[01:11:22] I'm amazing restraint.

[01:11:23] I kept, it was going to be Bowie this time.

[01:11:25] I think you got all the way to the end of the season before you picked Bowie's song.

[01:11:28] It was the last episode.

[01:11:29] Yeah.

[01:11:30] And I was panicking.

[01:11:31] I was worried I wouldn't be able to find a Bowie song to fit that last one, but I managed.

[01:11:36] You made it work.

[01:11:39] So before we get out of here, guys, I know that, you know, this discovery coverage can

[01:11:45] feel new to some of our audience, but it's not, you know, it really fits with our strange

[01:11:50] new worlds coverage.

[01:11:51] And it's not always bad to try something new, even if it's, you know, kind of outdated.

[01:11:57] And to that end, I'm going to start playing competitive Pokemon.

[01:12:01] What are you guys going to do?

[01:12:02] That's new.

[01:12:04] It's new.

[01:12:05] Oh, oh, I started welding the other day.

[01:12:07] What?

[01:12:07] Actually, I welded for the first time.

[01:12:09] Yeah.

[01:12:10] It's really fun.

[01:12:11] It's exactly as fun as I thought it would be for the last 15 years when I never just

[01:12:15] started welding.

[01:12:16] Dude.

[01:12:17] Don't wait to start welding.

[01:12:18] It's super fun.

[01:12:19] Welding looks as cool on camera as smoking a cigarette, which again, we don't recommend

[01:12:25] you do, but it does look cool on a camera.

[01:12:28] Do you, do you, are your welding goggles as impressive as Tilly's smart goggles?

[01:12:32] I mean, yeah, they're the auto darkening.

[01:12:35] Like you don't have to do anything.

[01:12:36] It's just, you can see through it.

[01:12:38] You slide the arc and they just go dark, which is a common thing.

[01:12:41] I mean, that's not like a special thing for welding helmets, but man, it's a, you know,

[01:12:46] cause you get to do the little nod your head to get it to fall down by itself.

[01:12:50] Oh yeah.

[01:12:51] Oh yeah.

[01:12:52] No, it's, it is super fun.

[01:12:55] And, and I'm, my welds are terrible, terrible, but I also tried on really thin metal, start

[01:13:00] on thick metal over here and try to learn welding.

[01:13:02] Yeah.

[01:13:03] What about you, Kim?

[01:13:05] Um, uh, I've been, I was, I've, I was enjoying your delaying, John.

[01:13:11] Uh, I don't know.

[01:13:13] I'm just doing the same old shit these days.

[01:13:15] Nothing new for me.

[01:13:16] That's okay too.

[01:13:18] Is your Halloween costume picked out?

[01:13:19] Yep.

[01:13:20] I got my Halloween costume.

[01:13:21] It's, we're doing another family costume.

[01:13:23] So that's not new yet.

[01:13:25] Oh, well, what are you going to be?

[01:13:26] Cause I need to be a power puff girl.

[01:13:30] Which one?

[01:13:31] Oh wow.

[01:13:31] Uh, Buttercup.

[01:13:32] My daughter obviously wants to be Blossom and she said, mommy will be blue and daddy will

[01:13:38] be green.

[01:13:39] Hmm.

[01:13:39] Every girl I've ever dated has identified with Buttercup.

[01:13:43] I believe that having met Millie.

[01:13:47] Um, yes, we are.

[01:13:48] I've never seen a power puff girls episode.

[01:13:49] We are going to be, uh, the gravity falls character.

[01:13:52] So I will be grunkle.

[01:13:53] Nice.

[01:13:54] Nice.

[01:13:54] I have been watching gravity falls.

[01:13:57] So, uh, yeah, good choice.

[01:13:59] Just watched.

[01:13:59] I've got one more episode in the first season.

[01:14:01] So, okay.

[01:14:02] Here's something new.

[01:14:03] I'm sorry.

[01:14:04] Well, actually, John, you want to share your Halloween costume first?

[01:14:06] I don't have them picked yet.

[01:14:09] You got time.

[01:14:09] He's going to be a welder.

[01:14:11] There we go.

[01:14:12] Yeah.

[01:14:13] It's a good costume.

[01:14:14] Uh, I have started watching Survivor.

[01:14:18] 47th season is the first season of Survivor.

[01:14:20] I've started watching, uh, because one of the survivors, John Lovett from Pots of America

[01:14:26] should be fingers crossed, you know, uh, be appearing on green shirts in, uh, sometime this

[01:14:33] season seven.

[01:14:34] So wow.

[01:14:35] Tune in, check out Survivor.

[01:14:36] I'm, I'm getting it.

[01:14:37] I understand why people like the show.

[01:14:39] The psychological mind games are extremely addictive.

[01:14:43] I thought it would be obnoxious, but no, it's a lot of fun.

[01:14:46] And, uh, he's very funny in it.

[01:14:48] And, uh, it should be very funny on green shirts sometime in January, February.

[01:14:52] When you hear that episode.

[01:14:54] Man.

[01:14:54] Yeah.

[01:14:54] I thought you said John Lovett's and I was like, no way.

[01:14:58] Like everyone thinks that it's not the critic.

[01:15:01] It's the former Obama speechwriter, John Lovett.

[01:15:04] It stinks.

[01:15:06] It stinks.

[01:15:08] I do not want to work at home Depot.

[01:15:12] Acting.

[01:15:15] He's going out of his mind and I'm reaping all the benefits.

[01:15:20] It's okay.

[01:15:22] Follow open pike on your social medias at open pike, go to open pike.com.

[01:15:27] If you would like to add your voice to our wonderful stage and thank you as always to

[01:15:31] our wonderful callers from this week.

[01:15:33] We literally couldn't make this show without you.

[01:15:36] So good.

[01:15:37] And thank you to our amazing patrons for supporting us.

[01:15:39] And cam, you mentioned green shirt.

[01:15:41] Tell us, uh, tell us a little bit more about it.

[01:15:44] Yeah.

[01:15:44] If you want to catch us, uh, finishing up season seven of TNG, I think there's eight

[01:15:49] episodes of TNG I've never seen at this point or seven.

[01:15:53] Something like that.

[01:15:54] It's, it's tight.

[01:15:55] It's tightening.

[01:15:56] Find us at green shirt 87 on Twitter, green shirt and it'd be struck through TNG wherever

[01:16:00] you hear our podcasts.

[01:16:02] So hard not to spoil what's coming up.

[01:16:04] Sorry.

[01:16:04] Go ahead.

[01:16:05] Oh man.

[01:16:05] Yeah.

[01:16:06] And it's been a long night and the open pike night crew just found out that we have

[01:16:10] lights in this building.

[01:16:11] So we're going to go turn them on as bright as we possibly can.

[01:16:13] So be sure to clean up after yourselves.

[01:16:15] Be sure to tip your servers.

[01:16:17] You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here.