PRIME DIRECTION - "Once La'an a Time" with Sydney Freeland

[00:00:00] This is Sydney Freeland and you're listening to Open Pike Night's Prime Direction, where Strange New Worlds directors reveal how they help great actors portray less than great actors. Is this thing on? Hello? Hello?

[00:00:35] Hark and welcome to ye olde Open Pike Night's Prime Direction, where we shine a full moon on the directors of Strange New Worlds to find out all their secrets. I'm your host, Cameron Harrison, flying solo today like that dragon because Jon and Jesse failed their Medieval Times auditions and are now being hauled off to the dungeon. But I hear there's a cute dog down there, so they're probably fine. With us today, a veteran Strange New Worlds director who has been hailed as a singular talent by the showrunners.

[00:01:05] She's proven herself a master of comedy, action and drama all in this one episode. Thank you for being here, Sydney Freeland. Oh, thanks for having me. Absolutely. Let's jump into what led to you directing Once on a Time. I believe you swooped in like dashing and saved the day with this one.

[00:01:25] Yeah, no, no. No, I had the opportunity to direct on season one of Strange New Worlds. It was a great experience. Chris Fisher was a producer director. And then we had circled back about something for season two and season three, and then the stars didn't quite align. And then I remember he called me about season four and said, well, we have this big episode. It's kind of our, it's our fantasy episode.

[00:01:50] It was like, it's like, think like, you know, Princess Bride, but Star Trek. And, and it was like, it was like check, check, check, check, check, you know? And, and he's like, are you down for this idea? I was like, yes, yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. And, and yeah, so thankfully it worked out and I was able to come on. But yeah, it really, really all, all roads lead to Chris Fisher. Yeah. That's how I was able to come on. He also had great things to say about you in his interview as well. We gushed a lot about this episode. So lots of check marks there.

[00:02:20] Was there one particular thing that excited you most about tackling this one? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, genre, the genre element, but also it's, it was this nice mix of kind of macro and micro, you know? And what I mean by that was like, it was like this, you know, these big, you know, fantastical set pieces, you know, literally big costumes and set pieces and dragons and fairies and werewolves and all these elements.

[00:02:46] But it had this really great kind of emotional, intimate storyline about La'an kind of coming face to face with her own demons and also literally coming face to face with herself as well. And so I had this really beautiful kind of emotional arc and self-contained story for, for the character of La'an. So that's, it was, it was this nice mix of like these, you know, big set pieces mixed with these, with this like foundation of this deep emotional story. It was, it was a nice mix of the two.

[00:03:15] Yeah. So when you were prepping for it, was there an element that you were kind of most daunted by or the, the element you thought would be the most challenging and then did it match the reality of the experience? Oh, that's an interesting question. You know, I think logistically shooting a way more content on the volume, shooting on the volume is tricky because you can't, you can't necessarily approach it like a normal kind of shoot of like a,

[00:03:45] you know, we're going to put two cameras side by side. Okay. Yeah. And obviously, you know, in a non volume setting, typically you can kind of, you try to avoid cross shooting and, and things like that. But on the volume, it's very particular of like what you can see and what you can't see. And so shooting is actually like, you might have a camera this way to camera this way, but you can't have two cameras facing the same, same way. Right. So in terms of like mapping stuff out and blocking stuff out and figuring like logist, the logistics of how are we going to shoot this?

[00:04:13] And also, you know, do it in a timely manner because this is television, right? That was a big hurdle to overcome. Even having done the volume a few times, we're still kind of, you know, still kind of caught us off guard a couple of times, but we, we managed to kind of plug through and get everything we needed. And then that was like on the logistical front. And I think just on the emotional front, it was like this, like one of the question marks I had was the storyline between Chrissy's character, well, between La'an and Princess Talia.

[00:04:43] Right. Because there were several scenes where you had both Chrissy and Talia in the same scene, you know, it put a huge workload on Chrissy. And I have to say kind of bearing the lead here, but she, you know, she went above and beyond and she worked her ass off on this episode. And I think it shows, you know, she's, it was emotionally, physically, mentally very taxing, but she left it all out on the field as it were.

[00:05:09] So, you know, there would be like scenes where we're doing like an emotional scene between two characters and we shoot the coverage on one side and then Chrissy would have to go away, swap costumes, and then come back in and do the opposite side of her coverage. So, so emotionally it was, it was very, it was a, it was a huge heavy lift. And on top of that, then you have like choreography and fight sequences. And so on top of that, she's doing an emotional scene as La'an with fight choreography.

[00:05:36] And then she's got to go change into like Princess Talia and do the other side of the emotional scene and do the choreography. And it was this, it was this, you know, it was a huge ask of her, but she, I mean, she rose to the occasion and then some. Yeah. Let's talk about that scene right now. So would they, would you do that in one day? She would play both sides in the same day? Yeah. We typically, we, we tried to break stuff up.

[00:05:59] Like, you know, there were certain things that we could get in between like changeovers and, you know, you do your best to expedite stuff, but it's still tricky. So yeah, we tried to cover as much as we could, but as a general rule, yeah, we tried to approach like a typical scene and you shoot your big wide shot. And then, you know, there's a double in there. And then, and then we shoot, you know, Chrissy's side of the coverage and then send her off to change over into Talia and then come back and do the other side. So we tried to preserve that as much as we could.

[00:06:28] Yeah. I feel like I saw a behind the scenes photo with Chrissy and three other doubles. So four of them total was that. So yeah. So there was a Talia double, a lawn double, and then there was also a Talia stunt double on some double. Ah, so there was like, it was like a separate way. So who's coming in? This is going to be the body double, but then the sun doubles on the other side.

[00:06:52] And so it was, it was a little bit of math, which I'm not the best at, but yeah, I think we had six, six versions of Chrissy altogether. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. So yeah. Then that was all on the volume, right? The castle was the volume. Chris told us. Yeah. Anything interior castle was, was on the volume. Yeah. It was, it was a big, it was big asset build. I think one of their biggest actually. Yeah. It's seemed that way. I know Jesse was shocked to find out that was volume. He thought that was a real castle they found in Toronto. Oh, great. Great. Okay.

[00:07:22] It looks great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was wondering too. It looks amazing. Were there any other volume sets or just that one? Well, I mean, one thing about that, the volume set was like, like I was impressed because the first time I ever shot the volume was actually season one of Strange and Worlds. And that was like in 21, I think. Yeah. It's like a 3d element. And then they tie it into the camera so you can preserve like the parallax and all that stuff. And so it was like a cool thing, but then like jump in like three, only three or four years later.

[00:07:50] And now like the technology has grown and evolved to the point where they had like digital double like castle guards. Oh, that were both standing in the castle. But then also you'd see like a courtyard in distance and you'd see like a little figure walk by and like 400 meters away. And it was, but it was all digital CGI people basically. Yeah. But they really, they really painted in the corners.

[00:08:15] I don't know if I realized they were doing that adding in extras on there. No reason, no reason you couldn't, I suppose. I was going to ask a question similar to that. So it was Serene Squall you worked on in the first season, right? Yeah. Yeah. So you've come back a few years later for season four. What's the biggest difference on set from season one set to season four set?

[00:08:35] I mean, for me personally, it was probably the cast, you know, cause like the first time, the first time around, I was just kind of meeting everybody and, you know, like just like learning, oh, this is how people like to work and, and so on and so forth. And then coming back, it was like kind of like coming back home to like a family almost, you know, and then we had, we had a built in rapport with, with the cast and the crew and everybody.

[00:08:58] And so it felt, it felt a little more kind of lived in and as logistically challenging as it was, it was, it was easier from like a chemistry standpoint. Right. So going back to the prep stage of everything, was there any kind of homework you did or did you draw inspiration from any favorite fantasy films for this one? Obviously Princess Bride is on the screen a lot, but. Oh yeah, of course, you know, yeah, Princess Bride.

[00:09:24] And of course we had Carol Kane in the episode and then we tried to pick her brain in between. Yeah, she had some, she had some, some great stories and I think we even built in like a little Easter egg in there where she, she meets the, this castle chef whose name is Max, you know, and he's a miracle worker. And so she's going to run off with him. It's, it's, that's definitely an Easter egg for Princess Bride, but that was, that was a big one for us.

[00:09:50] And then just looking at like a lot of like kind of like practical, like pre CGI kind of fantasy movies. Never ending story was another one. Labyrinth of course. Of course. And just, and just looking at like, are there areas and places where we could do something practically, whether it was like, you know, candles, you know, having like practical candles, practical lighting elements on a set mixing with our digi doubles.

[00:10:15] You know, all the way to our, you know, our, obviously our animatronic werewolf, which was. I want to talk about that. Yeah. I w I w we could have done a whole entire episode with that werewolf. Like it was like, yeah, there was some good. Yeah, it was, it was, um, yeah. So that, those are, those are kind of the things that pop out. Yeah. I mean, we'll just jump to the werewolf because like whenever you kind of hear a werewolf is coming on a TV, you're like, okay, let's see, uh, not the best track record.

[00:10:44] And then when it was this amazing practical werewolf, I cheered out loud watching it and I saw the, the behind the scenes video you have on your Instagram of. The werewolf walking up and down the halls. Like, but yeah, what was it like working with that? We heard like they weren't even sure if it was going to pay off and then legacy showed up. It was fucking scary. It was amazing. But I think as a credit to the puppeteers, um, I mean, it was probably, I want to say it was like a half dozen people that were all controlling the motors in the mouth.

[00:11:08] And then you had a, um, one of our stunt doubles was, uh, inside the suit and, you know, it was very taxing. Um, we could only shoot with the suit on for, you know, a couple minutes at a time. And, you know, of course you shoot on the volume. And so you got those screens and the screens heat up and the set warms up really fast.

[00:11:28] So we had, we only had it in kind of short bursts, but, um, for me, that's part of the excitement about shooting stuff practically versus like saying, Oh, we'll just fix it in CGI. I'm fixing post. Right. Like you get a lot of these kind of cool, like happy accents that come along. I'm really glad we were able to do all of those things. Mm. Can you think of any, uh, examples of happy accidents or things you were able to do with it because it was practical? Well, something even as simple as like, um, you know, Paul's character charming.

[00:11:58] He turns into the werewolf and then it's lawns first time seeing the character as a werewolf, but then. Right. You're actually able to shoot an over the shoulder shot over a werewolf to Chrissy or to, to lawn. And she's looking up into his eyes and she's able to actually kind of connect with Paul Wesley as, as a werewolf. Mm-hmm .

[00:12:19] You know, it's, it's a very, you know, it sounds like a very kind of simple, straightforward shot, but like, I mean, doing that in CGI, it's, it has, it, it can have its limitations. And yeah. But to me, it just added this like extra texture of, of, of realness and authenticity in a good way. Easier to connect to that than a tennis ball. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:45] Well, speaking of your Instagram, you had also mentioned on there that your original director's cut was 70 minutes long. And I think like the most common criticism we ever have of a Stranger Worlds episode is just that we want more. We always want more. Yeah. Can you share any of the scenes or subplots that might have ended up on the cutting room floor? I'm trying to, I'm trying to think. And then, and for, I mean, I, I think for, for folks that aren't familiar, like that, that is an extremely long director's cut. Yeah. That's like, I could, I guess you've been fired for that.

[00:13:12] I want to say it was like, I want to say it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 68 minutes. Um, I could be wrong. I could be wrong about that, but, but no, it was, it was, you know, I think we just wanted to try to give, give time and space to these arcs that were, that were going on, you know, like, like Melissa's character. Has her own arc in the episode. Paul has his own arc in the episode, you know, Carol even has, you know, kind of, kind of an arc.

[00:13:39] And then you've got, you know, Anson and, um, uh, Spock and, um, Pike as well. Right. Have their little, little threads and everything. So it was really difficult to kind of pair those down without sacrificing some of the timing. And because again, it's, it's like, it's hard. It's humor. It's comedy, fantasy. And so like comedy, a lot of times it, you know, comedy is, it's all about timing and pacing and rhythm and, and, and things like that. And so it was difficult to cut all that down.

[00:14:09] And, um, I'm trying to think like what was there more of princess Talia. Yeah. There were, there was more of Talia. I'm trying to think of some specific moments. I'm blanking right now. Sure. I mean, that was a while ago. So feel free to take your time. Yeah. But it sounds like maybe it was kind of trimming away the other characters arcs to just highlight La'an's and the final cut. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:33] I, I think, I think, I think we, some of the stuff in the forest, like when the, when the enterprise first beams down, some of that stuff got kind of like, again, like our, our props and set tech team, they, they sort of like, we had this kind of yes. And a mentality, you know, of like, Hey, we're in a fantasy world. Like if you want to play with stuff, you want to put some mustard on stuff, like go for it. And so then they were going to town on stuff. And so like, there was one shot that I really loved.

[00:14:58] And it was like, we created this like Venus flytrap and animatronic Venus flytrap, again, practical that we put in these woods that we had built. And then, and then set tech, you know, I came, well, what if we had like a giant spider just in the background, what if it's like giant, like weird, like centipede looking creature. And, and it was like, everyone was like building on each other. And then someone had like a doll of a, of a fairy. And then it was like, Oh, what if we put, what if we had the fairy getting caught inside the Venus flytrap?

[00:15:27] And I was, I remember saying like, Oh, can we, can you, can you rig that so we can do it on camera? You know, like amazing. Yeah. And so I think it got cut, but there was a, it was literally, it was, obviously wasn't serving the story or the everything, but it was just a great way to get into it. You saw like a Venus flytrap, like chomp down on, on a little figure and little fairy wings sticking out and everything. So like, you know, little moments like that were, were, were fun to, to do it. I think, I think hopefully the crew had a good time. Yeah.

[00:15:57] I mean, very labyrinth inspired. It sounds like, I mean, that's just sounds like the season in general, this DVD better be loaded with deleted scenes and behind the scenes stuff for all this. Sounds like y'all had a lot of fun. I have to imagine maybe there was. And I mean, what there was, was perfect. I can understand not wanting to spend too much time with these characters, but Routh and Pollux on the enterprise pretending to be Pike and Spock. I mean, that was, that was the subplot. I came into this being like, I didn't know I needed this.

[00:16:27] And now I just want an hour of these. Oh, that's one. That's one thing we lost. We had, we had a bigger bit. It was a bigger kind of a montage of them, like trying out different looks and different mannerisms and trying to try to embody what they thought were a real Pike or a real Spock. So it was just like meta thing of like Anson playing Routh who's trying to pretend to be Pike. And it was like, yeah, we had a lot of great stuff that that stuff got cut. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that.

[00:16:56] Well, did we ever, was there ever a scene with Max the cook or was that always just an off screen reference? Oh yeah. It was an off screen. Yeah. So back to location. So the castle was the volume where, where'd you shoot the forest stuff? The forest stuff, it was shot outside. So we shot the kind of landing areas up around the Creek. It was all kind of north, northeast Toronto. Okay. On location. Yeah. It was a country, it was like a country club.

[00:17:25] It was like these like fishermen that have this like plot of land. They preserve it. They don't allow like car traffic to go through. And the big cabin up there that worked out and it was like, you know, there's a fishing pond in the middle. And so it is sort of a one stop shop for us.

[00:17:43] So anything like exterior, we shot there, the swamp of infinite death, a lot of the traveling shots, the cabin with the werewolf and then with Melissa and Rebecca. And yeah, I think those are the main locations. And I think those are all the like exteriors. Mm-hmm. It's kind of a one stop shop.

[00:18:05] So speaking of the cabin scene, there's a moment there that a lot of our listeners cheered over, which was the kiss between Adia and the huntress. This is something people have been waiting for since season one. Like when you were filming that scene, did you kind of recognize that this would be a moment a lot of people would find very important or? No, no, honestly.

[00:18:25] I mean, I knew it was sort of implied from the from from previous, but no, it was again, you know, speaking of like Melissa's character and the arc the character goes through. I thought I love the way they approach the storyline. And to me, it felt like a nice, sweet moment. Agreed. So this episode seems to bring to text a lot of subtext from the whole season.

[00:18:51] And it felt like this whole season is kind of dealing with shadow selves and doppelgangers and, you know, people who look like us that maybe reveal things about ourselves. Mm-hmm. Is there any discussion of that with the writers or showrunners that this was sort of like this episode was a bit of a Rosetta Stone for the whole season? Or am I just reading too much into it? Yes. Yes. Yes. But I'm also I'm hesitant to fully answer the question because I also I also worked on season five.

[00:19:21] Oh, okay. And I don't I don't want to. So there are threads that will continue into season five. I can either confirm or deny that. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. But but yes, in terms of this this episode specifically this idea of shadow selves. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:39] I mean, yes, very much so and particularly with La'an and this idea of her kind of facing herself allowing herself to feel and, you know, get in touch with her emotions and, you know, face her, her inner demons, you know, that was very much at the heart of this whole, you know, this whole episode really. Mm-hmm. Well, let me ask and if you can answer. Great. If not, that's fine.

[00:20:05] When you were shooting this had season five already been announced? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Well, that's stuff to look forward to for sure. Okay. Speaking of things that we hope we see continue into season five, one of the new ish characters. We had a little bit of her in season one, but now Runa seems to be a member of the crew. What was it like working with Runa as an actor? Yeah. Runa is an amazing dog. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:34] It's Chrissy's dog in real life and she's grown up on set. Yeah. She's been there since season one and she's, it's kind of her whole world. You know, you know, Runa and she's very well trained. She's very well behaved. We had two doubles for Runa. Okay.

[00:20:54] But in all honesty, I think it's probably what you see is probably like 95% of the actual Runa just because, you know, we were able to dial her in. And, and again, you know, Chrissy was also, she's doing like quadruple duty. You know, you're right. Cause she was also in certain scenes as the animal trainer and wrangler, you know, like we needed Runa to run up to like a thing and look up at a, at a point.

[00:21:19] And, you know, and so it was Chrissy's actually there, you know, and her double is like laying on, on the palace floor in the background. And then Runa needs to run up and then Chrissy's actually standing there acting as a dog wrangler. But no, no, Runa is just an amazing, amazing dog. And it's funny cause I had just come off a show where we had shot with kids and animals and it was a big heavy lift. And then I was like, oh great. Now we're going to do dogs and like werewolves and on a volume stage.

[00:21:49] And no, she, again, Chrissy put in a lot of work in terms of like the beats that we need to do ahead of time and kind of like training those specifically for Runa. And so we'll, we were prepared for, for multiple, um, to use multiple versions of Runa, but in the end we largely, she did her own stunts. Did you bring like a professional trainer on to kind of give her the, the, the rundown real quick? Yeah.

[00:22:19] Cause the first episode, I'm pretty sure in Elise and kingdom, she just gets held the whole time, but yeah, she does some running up to Mark, some standing. Listen, it was, Runa does, Runa does continuity. Like it was, it was, it was like, it was surreal as well. You know, we'd be sitting in a scene and it's a, it's a wide shot and Runa sitting there and then, uh, somebody walks by and, and, you know, outside and the room turns and looks up and. You know, holds for two beats and comes back down, you know, and then we, the camera and then we're moving to a different angle.

[00:22:47] And then Runa like turns and looks in the hole for two beats and then comes back and looks in the angle. And, and like she, Runa, Runa, uh, uh, cut very well as well too. And then continuity was actually, uh, better than some human actors. Amazing. Well, speaking of other human actors. And I mean, we touched on this a bit, quite a bit, but the Routh and Pollux doing the lines, the fascinating and hit it lines. I think we see maybe three or four versions of those.

[00:23:17] How many total versions did they do of those lines? Oh man. I think, yeah, this is, we just did a whole, it was a whole run where it was just like, it was just like, okay, let's just screw it up. Get the scripted beats and then, and then let Anson and Ethan just kind of run with it. And there was like, there was, they tried different hairstyles.

[00:23:40] And I think at one point, like, um, Anson started, he started improvising with the, um, he was like, uh, sculpting is like pompadour as Routh. Uh huh. And then the, the, the, the hairdryer like freaked him out as the character. And so he was like, what is this device and this ghastly machine, you know? So yeah, it was just really like, I think we just did a run and, you know, like, and, and, you know, they did a whole, a whole series of that, but we have, we have a lot of those, uh, different versions.

[00:24:06] And there's a lot of great, uh, you know, deep character work of La'Ande coming to terms with her shadow self and everything. But I think my favorite moment is the way Pollux is slouching in Spock's chair in the background on the bridge. It's a very specific moment. I know. Do you remember like whose idea that was? He's like, he's like, uh, yeah. The most unspock like posture ever. And it's amazing. Yeah. It was a little, he had this like, he had this like kind of like Keanu vibe, like just like, it was great. I think, I think, I think Ethan had fun with that character.

[00:24:37] I think so. Uh, and then again, we talked about it some, but the fight, the La'an fight with herself, like how, how was that filming that specific scene? Yeah. Uh, very, um, very intense. Uh, just in terms of, again, it was, it was the, to me, it was that epitome of like, we were talking about earlier of this like micro and macro, you know?

[00:24:59] So there was like a lot of departments working together, you know, costumes, stunts, um, special effects, visual effects, in some cases, you know, animal wrangling as well too. And, and so it was a lot of different departments working together. But none of that mattered if we didn't have like the emotion and the performance on both ends.

[00:25:22] And that's where, again, that's where Chrissy really, it was a huge ask that we had of her, but then she was able to really hone in and dial in. And, and, you know, I think for, for me, it was really just trying to give her that space to, to inhabit when she was actually up there as lawn. And then coming around to, to the Talia side, it was, you know, I'm not an actor, so I can't picture what that must feel like, uh, from, from the inside out.

[00:25:47] But from the outside in, it was like, it was such a, it was such a huge ask, but, but she, she had that emotional core that, that everything else was built upon. Was it all done with doubles and angles or is there some visual effects or? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's sort of a combination of a lot of things. I know there was, we did some facial placement. Anytime you see the two Talia lawn in the same, if you see, if you see the front of their face in the same shot, that is face replacement. Sure.

[00:26:18] Some split screen, not nearly as much as what I was thinking. At one point we were talking about motion tracking, but that would have just been a huge time suck. But again, that's where, that's why it was really dependent on doubles and choreography and, and Chrissy being able to do kind of both sides of the story. Cause we didn't want to have to lean into like, okay, here's a static frame. And then you just do some stuff on this side and you do some stuff on the side and then we'll cut in the middle and we'll make it look bigger than together.

[00:26:47] But we wanted to have it. We wanted to have some dynamic quality to, to everything. You'd mentioned the costumes. Yeah. There's some costumes in this. I mean, Queen Neve specifically. And then of course, Lon and Talia have some great ball gowns too. Like what was it like helping design and work with those? Oh yeah. Queen Neve, whereas her costumes alone, they had their own, they had their own trailers. I imagine.

[00:27:15] Yeah. Yeah, no, it was, it was, they were, they, they were legitimate like productions in and of themselves, you know, like to get, get the headpiece on and like the, the Neve, like that kind of that dragon look with the big red dress. You know, it took a while to get that on. It was, it was also very heavy, you know, we're limiting the amount of time it takes that we could do. But, but again, it was, it was all about trying to put as much of what we could on screen.

[00:27:43] So you talked about being able to chat with like Carol Kane behind the scenes and everything. How was it working with her as a director and bringing Talia to life? Yeah, no, Carol, Carol's great. She is, I joked with her and that she's like, she's like an assassin. Right. And that she just like, you know, there'll be a lot of conversation and a lot of talk up front, you know, like,

[00:28:07] you know, there's a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B and I can do this, you know? And so we'll have a lot of conversation and we'll have a lot of back and forth and then you'll see it like, and then we do the first take and you can see her, like, she's kind of like stretching, she's stretching out and she's kind of finding her limits. And then the second take, everything kind of snaps in. And then she just like hones in on like, whether it's the comedy, whether it's the emotion, whether it's the, you know, whatever kind of beat we're going for.

[00:28:33] Or she just like, she just has this amazing talent to just like lock in and hone in on something. I remember we did, there was a scene. Hey, if you ever had a chance to talk to Henry about the showrunner, it was, it wasn't a big scene, but it was Carol and Celia and Jess. I think they're looking for, they're looking at the book and they, they, they learned that they have about the shadow versions of Talia and La'an.

[00:29:04] And, and we, we had, we probably had about 50 minutes to shoot that whole entire scene. You know, and my, and my AD was seeing, he's like, we're not going to, we're not going to get this. We're not going to get this and we're going to have to punt it. And it was like, well, just, okay, let's just stay the course. Let's just stay the course. These guys are good. These guys are good. And we, we did one rehearsal where we blocked it and then sent them over. And then they were, they were running lines in the green room and everything.

[00:29:33] And we set it up and it was just like, to me, it was this, it was like the definition of collaboration. It was set deck, it was props, it was camera, everybody. And we can, we set up this kind of cross one, one set up, two cameras, cross shooting sequence. And then I think we had like 12 minutes to, to roll on this thing. And then Carol comes out on one side, Celia and Jess on the other side. And then they go in and the first take, it's like, maybe it's like shoot the rehearsal and we do it. And then it's the same thing.

[00:30:02] It was like, it was like, it was, it was kind of all over the map. Second one, everybody locked in and Carol had this big, she had a, she had a big monologue, you know, and Celia also too, you know, it was like, she, I tamed the centaurs and I did the thing, I did the thing. And then by the third take, it was like, everybody was just firing on all cylinders. And everything just came together and coalesced and it was like, great to watch. Just watch something come together in such a limited amount of time.

[00:30:30] But like, that's like, they are pros, you know? And I think we got three or four passes and we, and we had like seconds to spare, but we got it. We got the whole scene, one set of two cameras. That's fascinating here. Cause I mean, that's one of the standout scenes for me. I think it was that scene where I was watching being like, thank God we got this episode with Pellia and Carol Kane, cause this is like iconic Carol Kane performance right here. She's like, is there something you two ladies are talking about? I don't get, I forget the exact line, but yeah. Yeah. It's so good.

[00:31:01] All that whole scene was probably in a span of about 12 minutes. Amazing. Yeah. When you're working with an icon like that, is there a moment on set where you're like, oh, right. You're Carol Kane. That's why you're Carol Kane. Like, yeah, there's just something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she, she's always, Carol's always great with like, like the end of a scene or like, Hey, if you just want to, you know, ad lib or something at the end, you know, she'll just throw in a one liner and you're like, like, holy shit, that's hilarious.

[00:31:28] You know, like actually that, that is stuff that I know there's probably a ton of, a ton of Carol Kane, uh, outtakes that sadly are on the editor's cutting the floor. Sure. Ah, well, I hope they make it to the DVD. So I like hearing that, like attitude of yours. Like, let's stay the course. Let's just keep shooting. We'll see what happens. I feel like all these director interviews, like that's kind of the, the through line I'm

[00:31:54] seeing is you all kind of just have this very calm, confident presence that I'm sure it's what makes you successful at directing. Like we said, this episode has a lot of tones. There's the comedy stuff. There's action stuff. There's some horror stuff. There's the drama stuff, character work. Like when you're coming on to do like a comedy scene, do you feel like you bring a different energy? Do you try to get the crew in a different headspace than when you're doing the character scene? Or is it all just this kind of calm? Not, not, not necessarily.

[00:32:22] No, I think it's, it's just, you know, again, it's like, what is the emotional core of this? You know, like the emotion is always the foundation, you know? And then you find that the comedy or the horror or the fantasy elements that kind of spring from, from that. But it's like the emotion is the foundation of everything. And yeah, yeah. It's, it's, I don't think it's, it's, it's really kind of seeing what story we need to tell and then, and then seeing where we can then play from there.

[00:32:51] And that's where like, you know, Carol, Carol's great. Mm-hmm. So we weren't able to talk to the writer Onitra Johnson about this episode. Can you talk about working with her on the set? Yeah, yeah. No, Onitra was great. And she was, you know, she was really great about like when I had to pick her brain about like, you know, like, what is the, what is the context behind this? Or, you know, what is the, you know, what are we going for with, you know, is there anything that I'm missing here in this, in this scene, in this moment?

[00:33:20] And she was really, she was really great in that regard. Cause she, she knew the story that we were trying to tell. Mm-hmm. I know she's a big fantasy fan and it sounds like you were too. Was it just, how fun was it just to walk in some of those sets and see those people in those costumes? Yeah. I mean, it's, like, I have to make a conscious effort to like, be like, oh, this is really cool. Like we're doing like the fantasy thing. Right. When you're on set and you're working, it's like, it's like, okay, what is, what is the shot?

[00:33:48] You know, get your shots, get your performances, make your day and you hone in. And, you know, like for me, it's like you walk into set and you're like, the inner child of me is sort of like, is like, wants to say, this is the coolest thing ever, you know? And then like, like filmmaker side of me is like, it's like, okay, is there, is everything working? Is everything lining up in the shot? And like, do we need a power set? How are set that power props? You know? So, um, and so it's like, it's, yeah, it's, it's kind of that, that work.

[00:34:16] Got to keep your shadow self in check. Got to keep my shadow self in check. Yeah. Yeah. Constantly. Uh, they're constantly fighting each other. Well, before I start to wrap up, is there anything else about this episode? Maybe I didn't ask about that you'd want to share. I mean, it was a big one. It was a big one. It was a heavy lift, but we had it, we had a, we had a great script again, just a super, what, what I really loved about it was it was the script, you know?

[00:34:45] And again, to put some flowers on a nitro, it was just, it was this intimate story of, of a character coming, you know, coming face to face to face with her own demons and, and learning to confront her emotions, which I mean, for myself, like I really, it's on a deeply personal level and, you know, just trying to do my best to do that. But the, the script that nitro and Henry and the writers put together was, you know, just trying to do my best to do it justice.

[00:35:15] Mm-hmm. Well, speaking of relating to the script, uh, I noticed you worked on resident alien, which means you likely have, uh, worked with the guests we had on for this episode, Alice Wetterland. Uh, she said this episode really spoke to her and really connected with her in a way. What's it like working on resident alien? Oh man. Yeah. So like, I mean, listen, I love genre. Um, and I've been very, very fortunate that I've been able to do that. Resident alien. Oh, that was a lot of fun.

[00:35:42] Um, actually, ironically enough, we shot that, I shot that just before I did resident alien. I think I had like six days off and then I went into four, uh, Star Trek. Uh, but no, that was great. Again, great cast, great crew. Alan is, I mean, Alan is, you get Alan, Carol Kane, a scene together. Oh my God. Like, yeah. I was trying to say. I just, yeah, I just pictured Alan and, and Anson together. I don't know what that scene would be like. I honestly, I w I would pay to see that. Oh man.

[00:36:12] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was, that was, um, uh, it was a lot of fun. Great, great cast, great crew, great scripts. I remember, I remember they were, um, they were like, yeah, we're thinking about shooting on the volume. Have you ever done any volume work before? Uh huh. And I was like, funny enough. Yeah. Yeah. And so we, um, I, we ended up shooting on the volume for, for the mailing as well, too. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Not, not as much resources as, as strange new worlds, but, but actually we, we still got some good stuff in there.

[00:36:42] The same volume or different, uh, no, with this, uh, resident, uh, Vancouver, right? Yeah. Yeah. We had that in Vancouver. Okay. Other side of the country. Well, Sydney, do you have a favorite shot from all the amazing shots of this episode? I mean, it's, it's not, I was, I was thinking, I was thinking about this, you know, cause you asked me earlier, like it's more so a sequence, right?

[00:37:06] And it's, it's, again, it's specifically, it's that Talia and La'an fight sequence where they, they start to feel each other's emotions, you know? And it was just, it was just this, to me, it was this perfect storm of performance with all these different departments working together in collaboration to, to tell a singular story. So yeah, it was, to me, it was, it was the fight slash face-off between La'an and Talia. Yeah.

[00:37:35] It's kind of a cop out, but, uh. I mean, it's, it's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I realized Christina is probably the perfect person for that with both like, uh, her dance background and like so much kind of combat training for her roles throughout the years. Yeah. To do a dance fight like that with herself is, it was probably a lot of fun. Yeah. Oh yeah. And then we had the, oh, okay. Uh, speaking of a sing, a single shot, it was the, um, if, if you're going to hold my

[00:38:05] feet to the fire and make me take a specific shot. Yes. I'm doing that. Yes. Yes. Uh, yes. Very much so. Um, we had this great like ballroom scene where we had, where we kind of reveal La'an and Prince Charming, you know, we had this great, it was a ballroom sequence of these, we brought in like ballroom dancers and we had this great dance choreographer, Melissa Mitra, who's also Toronto based. And, and she choreographed this like great dance sequence.

[00:38:30] And there was this, a shot, if you can hold my feet to the fire, there's a shot. It was, it was like, you know, we're, we're sort of pushing through this like ballroom dance and then dancers are like wiping in front of the lens and everything. And then we, they finally pushed back and reveal La'an and, uh, Paul or Chrissy and Paul, um, stepping onto the, the dance floor the first time. And, um, that was, that was particularly special for me. Cause again, like that was a moment where like, you know, the inner child came out and it made

[00:39:00] me think of like, like labyrinth or, um, something like that. And then that was a moment where I allowed myself to be like, oh yeah, this is, this is really cool. This is, this is so much fun. Do you know what music they played during those? If they play music on the set for the dances? Yeah, we had, um, I think we had a, actually, I think it was a click track. Okay. A click track is basically, it's like a, Oh, I'm not, I'm not musically inclined.

[00:39:28] It wasn't the David Bowie song from the ball sequence and labyrinth then can I pretend it was, uh, you know what it was the, it was David Bowie. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Sydney. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. Uh, amazing episode. Uh, we had a, a lot of fun with that. I can only imagine it was so much fun to be on set with all of that too. Yeah, it was, it was a lot. It was a lot of fun working with a lot of very talented people. Incredibly.

[00:39:55] Well, we look forward to seeing what you've got coming in season five then. And, uh, hopefully we'll can talk to you then as well. Awesome. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.