SNW S4 E10 - "Tomorrow's Enterprise"

Is this thing on? Hello, hello. Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New World's Podcast, where your calls are the Prime Director. I'm your host, John T. Boltz, here today to talk about the finale of Star Trek Strange New World Season 4, Episode 10, Tomorrow's Enterprise. And of course, I'm joined as always by my co-hosts. First up, the man who just cannot bluff to save his life. We can always tell when he's lying. It's Jesse Bailey.

I've never won a hand of poker. Um it's it's it's one of the many reasons I don't gamble when we go to Las Vegas.

And the man who has gotten a lot of practice at lying because his kids are almost teenagers and he's had to tell them so many things don't exist in the real world. It's Cameron Harrison, host of Green Shirt.

That's right. I'm ready to do the time warp again. Again? I don't know. I don't know. Guys, it's the finale. It feels like it's just like we just watched the premiere ten weeks ago.

Seriously.

Time's flying, man.

Yeah.

I think that means time is going at exactly the correct rate. Uh but it it is interesting, like I don't know about you guys. This season has felt longer to me. And I don't I think it's because of the capital D discourse. Yeah. Like there's just been so much so many people down on it, so many people trying to defend it. Just it it's been exhausting to see some of the conversation that happens around the show. But I mean it is also life-giving. It's a it's a strange potion.

It is. And it is, I think you're absolutely right. It's the discourse, uh, it's the 30 freaking episodes we've done in the last 10 weeks, plus a convention. Um, yeah. I can I can think of several reasons why it might have uh felt a little heavier this year.

It felt dense, that's what it felt like. A lot of mask this season.

Yeah, yeah. But I'm I'm continually grateful for it. Like it is it is a nice refuge every week to be able to go, you know what? It's Star Trek. Yeah, I don't have to think about literally everything else. I can just think about Star Trek right now.

That's right. And as always, we're joined by our callers. We have a great group today. Uh, you guys want to start with one? Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's go with Starship.

Hey, open Pike Night. Um, I thought this was a really good episode. Uh Celia was stellar, as always. I feel like every Ahura episode has been one of the standouts of the series. I thought the effects were gorgeous. Uh, I was really, really excited to see some animated series characters, especially Imrez. That was really, really fun. I have no issues with Ahura and Scotty being together. I understand there's precedent for it, but I wish there had been some buildup to it. It came out of nowhere on this show, and I hate to say it, but that is kind of part of the course for this show, and I just I really wish they'd take a little more care when they put their characters together. Uh, but other than that, I thought it was a strong finish to a season that I've mostly really, really enjoyed.

So let me tell you why I love Scotty and Uhura. Because it's not Scotty and Ortega. That had me so worried for the longest time. I was like, they work great as friends. This is excellent. What a beautiful friendship. You took the time, you established this. Please don't throw it into the romantic relationship uh ballpark. And I'm so glad they didn't. If that means we have to get kind of an out-of-nowhere Scotty Uhura thing, fine, I'm happy with that. It's totally okay. And you did mention the precedent for that, which is fair, but it was what, like a scene, maybe half a scene in a movie, and even the actors were a little confused why that scene was in there. So I I hear where you're coming from, and I I I agree with all the positives on this. This was a lot of fun to watch. It was beautiful to look at. And I think it communicates a really good message, which is you know, maturity is kind of nothing more than wanting to go back in time and kick the ass of your younger self.

I don't think that's the message they were trying to get across in this episode. I feel like they told us the message like 17 times.

Oh my gosh. I you could play a drinking game of how many times they say the word tomorrow or today or present or future.

Yes.

I mean, I'm not angry at it, but it's it's it's there. It's uh the subtext is text in this episode. Uh as far as the relationship, I mean, that is one of the tricky balancing acts in episode. Do we want to wait for Jesse?

Oh. He froze up?

Yeah. I hope I'll actually be able to talk. Uh oh, damn.

Nah.

As far as the relationship, uh, that is one of the tricky balancing acts in a show like this that is episodic but has serialized character arcs, has to do like sometimes they do plant seeds all season long. Sometimes they plant a seed for one episode, like the Scotty Erica relationship before they resolve it. And sometimes things come out of nowhere. Personally, I wasn't mad at this. Like, it takes a while for feelings to develop, but this is all from a Hurra's point of view, and sometimes you're just kind of shocked when someone asks you out. I mean, that's never happened to me, so I'd be very shocked if someone just asked me out, but but you know, like you suddenly go like, oh, this person's treating me different. I don't know how to react. I'm going to just go on my way. I don't know. It worked for me, but I yeah, I mean, the show definitely picks and chooses which arcs it stretches out and which ones it introduces in the episode it needs.

I would argue that they developed, they put more time into developing the Scotty O'Hura relationship than they have in any other. Because they had a whole year in this episode. So uh kind of, you know, time travel gives us the fact that no, they they took a year to build up this relationship, we just didn't get to see it. So that is right.

I mean, I like at the end, we don't see present-day Uhura like run up to Scotty and kiss him. Like she gives him a look like something's gonna happen here. I'm going to allow it to happen, but not immediately. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm gonna need this wine at this dinner party first. And then yeah.

And here is Newman. Newman the Space Hippie, movies for days. Let's get into likes, dislikes, and I wish. Like the establishing shot of Laan and Uhura's coffee talk. So cool. Communicating and coordinating a long-term plan through time, non-comporeal beings, an anomalies starting in the future and growing through the past. Oh, I love all that stuff. Martin Quinn and Silurose Gooding's Chemistry. They are so cute together. Tellites, Boleons, and animated characters on the ship. What? Okay, dislikes. Takes way too long for the respective enterprises to realize that's not their Uhura, and there was a really easy fix for this. I'm surprised the writers didn't go for. Repetitive mentions of poker and live in the now messaging in the script. Yes, we get it. Ortegas is a captain after only one year? Dude, Una and Harry Kim are listening and they're pissed. Repetition of the term space baby without teeming it with a scientifically accurate term for such an anomaly to give balance to the silliness. I wish. I wish instead of jumping one year ahead, we jumped five years later. I wish some lip service at least was paid to the existence of an official record of Scotty's death in the future timeline. That certainly would have existed. And I just would have liked if that was at least a stepping stone on the mystery. And I wish there was a music amplification system so that we could hear Uhura's message to the midwives translated into the musical notes.

Man, that whole uh coordinating a plan across time felt like writing interdepartmental emails at the office, am I right? Yeah. Alright, but they did much better than I do.

It felt like the end of Bill and Ted's uh excellent adventure to me. Yes. But you actually get to see the stuff they do. Yeah, it was a lot of fun, yeah, for sure.

And it was like it was fun because they involved, you know, like the Spock being like, yeah, I figured it out a while ago. I've been grumpy you have an ass. And and so like the Spock and Scotty of it all being involved, not just Uhura in a vacuum doing it, was it really makes that sequence almost perfect.

And like I have to say, Erica is much better than Una and Harry Kim. I think we all know that. That's why she got such a fast promotion.

Well, okay, but is she still in Starfleet? Because I mean, instructor can can be a civilian instructor, so Captain Is this a Han Solo situation where she's the captain because she owns the ship? I kind of got the Han Solo like that her hair, I to me her hair change indicates no longer in the service. Like that is her in civilian life. She would have grown a big old bushy beard if she could, so yeah.

Somehow the Mortegas hawk is the standard issue haircut and the shaggy is not. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

But yeah, I mean I I really liked the whole idea here. I think I kind of agree on the space baby nomenclature. Like that was that was I mean, not to spoil anything, Cam, but that's not the only time Newtrek has said, Oh, so you're talking about a space baby, and then kind of ran with that. And it's like you you you you could you could have given it, you know. I mean, Sam Kirk could have given you the the proper nomenclature for this. I mean, he is a xenoanthropologist, but I get it as a bit of fun, so I I think I'm gonna forgive it personally, but I am with you. I I was there was maybe one or two too many utterances of that term for my taste.

I if if we had to take that many utterances of space baby to get Paul Wesley's absolutely genius embodying of William Shatner as Kirk, like the there those moments of mannerism where you can tell it's like, okay, he's just doing a meme right now, like the two hands up and react. I was like, alright, alright, that was perfect, man. I I'm here for this. It was really well done. It was very well done. I like Kirk in this episode. Yes, yeah.

Well, and so do you I I have to ask, because I know that you guys haven't watched much or maybe any of the animated series. Not much. Nope. Um did the did Moresse and the Blizzard guy and the bird guy, did they strike you as like, oh, that's a fun thing, or was it like, what is going on?

Both, both. I mean, I recognize them as animated series characters. I love them. I uh one, I love weird, weird-looking aliens in Star Trek. I love whenever they do that, which isn't a lot, so I I take it when I can. I thought they looked great. They were amazing costumes and animatronics. I, you know, it was interesting hearing Chris talk about it and say, like, yeah, you know, they've explored more, so they've met other races that are now part of the ship. This kind of goes to the point, which maybe we'll talk about shortly or later, about the time jump year versus three years versus five years. It sounds like originally it was supposed to be a three-year jump, which would maybe make sense to have more of these aliens on ship. To me, when I was watching, I was like, so is Pike like a raging xenophobe? Why are all these aliens on Kirk ship but not Pikes? Like, what and if it's only a year, like did they meet all these different aliens, all these animal aliens, I guess, are from like one section of space that they discovered about five years ago, and now all these guys just graduated Starfleet in the next year and join the ship, maybe I guess.

Well, and why isn't the bird guy wearing a uniform? I mean, maybe he's not in Starfleet, right? Like, but like again, in space that still counts as naked, right?

The feathers are the uniform.

Oh, okay. I mean, when he went to the academy, he had to get plucked. So yeah. Right.

This is him growing it out. Exactly.

Yeah.

Um yeah, I mean, I as a TAS fan was just over the moon. And then to your point, Cameron, talking to Chris Fisher, I was like, I I didn't know those were practical effects. Like they're they're very briefly in the shots that they're in, but like I'm absolutely here for people in suits being aliens. Like, that is the core of Star Trek. Like, there's nothing more 60s Star Trek than putting a person in a suit and saying you're an alien now. Yeah. And it's it's a great uh counter counterbalance to all the aliens that are absolutely just humans with a little extra nose ridge or weird eyebrows, or oh look, his forehead is different. Like, no man, give us talking cats and birds and lizards. What why is that so hard to do?

I do wonder if we're gonna see more of them in in season five, if they're gonna start sprinkling him in to Pike's Enterprise as we get closer to this mark. I I mean they've got them now, they might as well use them to get some more value out of them.

Couldn't hurt. Yeah. Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Abby.

Hey, open pike. Abby Summer from the First Flight Podcast. First of all, I'd like to say that I think this season had the best opener and closer of any of the four seasons. Other seasons had one that I thought was better, either the opening or the finale, but this one I think had two solid entries to bookend the season. Okay, bunch of randomness now. First of all, Una and Uhura have the best nail polish, but uh Uhura might have taken it this time. Plus, the eyeshadow have she ever looked better. Like either version of Uhura in this amazing. On the other hand, Erica's wig, mmm, no more Tagas for that. She has the coolest hair in the world, and they gave her an awful mullet. No, no, no, no, no. I love how they reused a lot of the old and recurring music cues in this one. It really grounded it and made it feel as epic as it deserved to be. And at the end, when they're all around the table, which I absolutely love, especially as someone who loves Enterprise, where so many of their big meals were important and things happened around a food table, I love that this crew is doing that. And I'm wondering, was that Chateau Picard? The label was blurred. And uh, did Uver a hand pike a plate of pigs in a blanket? That seems a little mmm. I think there'd be better food than that, but that's a personal taste thing. Who knows what kind of condiments they were using, right, Kirk? Hope this finds you well. What a fun season. Thanks for all you did for us for it.

Okay, they were Tarkalian pigs in a blanket. That's what makes it okay. They weren't just regular pigs in a blanket. Yeah. I mean, I thought that was obvious. But this is a really interesting point, okay? What do you guys think about the designation of best opener and best finale? Cameron, I know that you're big on hegemony one and two. I'm right there with you. Yeah, but those are different seasons. I did really like they are different seasons, but I also did really like Quality of Mercy. Now, it could be argued that that wasn't really a capper for that season, because it's just an alternate timeline that kind of doesn't have a ton of bearing on what really happens. But I still had a ton of fun with that. I'm gonna say episode one and episode ten is what Abby Abby is talking about.

Yeah, like yeah. I mean, this is an alternate timeline as well. So yeah.

But it matters to the current timeline, right? Like it it creates character, and I guess you could say quality of mercy did the same thing. It creates care character growth for the current timeline. But where do you go where are you guys landing on best? Do you agree with Abby? Do you think this is the best one and ten of the show so far?

Hmm, that's an interesting question.

So we've got Strange New Worlds, we've and Quality of Mercy. Broken Circle. Broken Circle.

I mean, I would say I would say yes, but because both of them are I I don't have big problems with either of them. I'm looking forward to re-watching Vallas Marineris, and I hope it grows on me over time, and I think it will. This I think was like a solid B plus episode. It's it's pretty good. Uh, but yeah, I mean hegemony one and two, I think, are the top-tier finales and and premieres for me. And I kind of have issues with the rest, except maybe the the the premiere premiere, which again is solid.

Yeah. Um yeah, it's it's hard.

What do you got, John? I would say uh the the next contender for me would be season one.

Um but but I have problems with the quality of mercy.

Yeah. I mean but I mean I don't I don't think Broken Circle or Hegemony Part Two or whatever the finale of season three was. Yeah, I'd I'd say it's probably it probably is for me the most solid season, but season one probably comes really close.

Is it because is part of it because it's not one story? Like you're not because like you said, you know, end of season two, start of season three is one story. Right. Right. So it's like because of that, you don't really get the premiere and finale feeling as much as you would from a season like this. Oh, I 100% think you do.

I think I think cliffhangers feel like finales. I think resolving cliffhangers feel like premieres.

Well, and I I'm not gonna say that I like this premiere and this finale better than that, because to me that was like really, really, really well done. Like and Cam, I think you've said before, like you think that might be the best Star Trek resolution of a cliffhanger ever. Yeah. So it's like I mean, it's hard to argue against that for me. I think I'm probably in that camp, but I could see other folks going, I'm glad that these two, this premiere and this finale, are not connected to something else in a way where I have to physically watch another episode to you know make it work. So I don't know, as far as standalone goes, maybe.

Well, I I want to talk about how this finale, it's it's an incredibly smart finale, I think, because it's it's fascinating knowing that they went into this being like, Look, we don't know, this might be the series finale, and we kind of have to treat it like it might be, but it definitely has to be the season finale. And then just before production, they found out they'd have a season five, so they were able to tweak some things. But I think it's a really smart way to do that. This like jump into the future, you get a look at the future, which makes it feel like a package. We get some hints at like the futures of these characters and and the handoff from our series to TOS, but it's focused around Uhura. I I mean I've seen some people say like good episode, bad finale, and I'm like, I I don't know what you want in the finale. This feels like a finale to me, like it feels big and important. It's hugely important for Uhura. We it's hugely important for the audience who gets to see some hints at what's gonna happen. We about uh Laan, about Ortegas, about Scotty and Uhura. Uh, you know, there's we don't know about Una, that's gonna come up next season, I suppose. But yeah, I mean to me it it feels like a really good finale that also could have served as a series finale.

I kind of was feeling more of the series finale vibes than I were than I was the season finale vibes on my first watch. It was like okay, but is this a culmination of what we've learned this season? Like, is this the natural next step for these characters from this season? And I can see where it kind of isn't, because like you don't have Laon really doing much here. Like, so is she just okay now? Now now that she's had her her moment of you know accepting the shadow self, and you cannot skirt around the Una of it all, and I I like I said, or like you said, that is probably coming next season. But because of that, I was kind of stuck in the like this I you could immediately tell this was written as a series finale and was then adjusted to be a season finale. And I don't fault them for that. Like obviously anymore, you don't know like until production starts, you don't know if there's more. And it sounds like you know, Akiva and Henry had to fight to get the next season and to get it to be a full, you know, a full-ish season and not a two-hour movie. So like I I I feel for the creators, I really do. I just remember feeling the first time like this was definitely a series finale, and I don't know that it came far enough back into like, oh yeah, it's definitely also for this season the culmination of those stories. But it's a great episode. Like, I still had a lot of fun with it. There's some interesting theories around it that I'll talk about later, but I mean it was definitely an episode of two minds. Yeah.

Alright, let's go ahead here from our buddy Zoe.

Open Pike Night. This is the USS Cinema. Zoe Richardson, Captain Commanding, also host of Backlick Cinema, the podcast. Tomorrow's Enterprise had a lot of distractions. And there is a lot to like about the episode. Celia Rose Gooding was fantastic, and Uhura had a fascinating journey. I was distracted, however, by the depictions of the white hole and the black hole. The white hole wasn't depicted as I imagined that it should be. I expected it to be brighter, with a lot of matter and energy coming out of it. This episode didn't accurately demonstrate the physical properties of either the black hole or the white hole. I did some research on the white holes. I found that the physical appearance of what we might expect is inconclusive. So maybe on a rewatch, that would be less distracting. But I'm sure that the science advisor is walking around going, why am I here? Why am I here? Otherwise, this is a pretty good season finale. I was able to overlook the distractions and enjoy the story for what it was. Richardson out.

Oh, extra spice on Zo's closing there, huh?

He logged out through time. I was kind of, I did have a couple moments of like, this is too close to a black hole. Like she's dead. Like that's that's all there is to this, right?

Um at least put the loopy part up top. I mean, at least make it upside down. Especially because later on they do show them upside down to each other. So I don't know. Right.

And I think it does fall into the like things you let go because it's Star Trek, right? Right. Um But it it doesn't mean I didn't have that thought of like, so we're just gonna sacrifice Uhura for for this this mission to be completed. Um I uh for me, uh they were there, but I didn't they didn't really like stick to me so much, the distractions. Um I was uh very interested because I was like, oh, this goes back to you know, Uhura deciding this is her place because it's it's the Mahani thing. Like she can solve this problem with music and she can she's the one who keeps everyone connected, she can make this this connection because of who she is and how she operates and what she's good at. So I really, really enjoyed that part of it. And I I was very uh uh aware of a you've got this title, Tomorrow's Enterprise, right? So you're thinking about yesterday's Enterprise, but you're also thinking of all the times that characters met temporal clones of themselves and worked with them or against them or what have you. And I think in that canon, like that selection of Star Trek stories, this one is really good. It is kind of a one character does a thing, but they did it enough to make the rest of the crew involved, I think for me, to make it not feel like a data story or a seven story or a Spock story, like this was an actual team effort with Uhura taking point, which I really liked.

Yeah, I I love the the scenes of the captains coming in and being like, So something's up here. What's up? We know something's up. Time travel? Okay, time travel.

So that's that's where I'm getting confused because a lot of people have mentioned like it take them way too long to recognize like it took Pike and Kirk two minutes to be like, all right, I'm gonna go double check on this. Like they both immediately not not just waited for like something else to happen, they both sought out Aurora and said, You are not the you I know you to be, and what is going on? So I didn't have a huge problem with that. They were in the middle of a freaking crisis.

Well, well, two points. I mean, one, I do in agreement, I do love that at some point at you know, we see Kirk in the med bay with TOS Ahura, and it's like, you go rest up. And apparently she left the room, and then he and at least Chapel were like, Okay, something's up. Doppelganger, what do you think? Your universe, I don't know. Uh, and and then Kirk's like, okay, I'm gonna go talk to her. You come in in five minutes, okay, and make sure I'm still alive. Got it? Like, there was this whole plan between Kirk and Chapel there, and I I would have loved to have seen that. And scenes like that that kind of make me go, like, you know, I mean, I I didn't know, I wasn't sure about year one, but I might take your one. Uh, but to the point of that taking them too long, I asked Director Chris Fisher about this, and I was not satisfied with the answer. I am sorry, that is a completely different uniform. If you were Kirk and you see her walk in, and then there's an explosion, and you look over, and her hair is completely different, and she's wearing a uniform from a year ago, like right then you go into you know your time travel protocol, interdimensional, whatever. They have classes on this sort of thing. I, you know, and it's just they they didn't have to mention it. Don't mention the hair, just be a quantum leap thing. We're seeing each other one, the audience sees them, so we can easily identify who's who, but the the crew will just see them as they're supposed to see them. Like if you're gonna have them ignore that, just have them ignore that. I don't know why they mentioned the hair, but not the uniforms.

Yeah. Well, and it seems like it would have been an easy fix to just give me a shot of Kirk clocking that, like, or a shot of Pike going, uh immediately I think don't mention the hair, but not the plunging neckline.

Yeah, we've we've talked about it. Right, it's a second screen thing. Like they in the 90s they would have just had them look at them weird and and then give them a knowing look as they walked off the bridge.

Right.

They just can't do that these days.

Or I thought it was it gonna be sort of a meta thing when like in in one of the Avengers a different actor comes in and they comment on his beard making him look different, but it's like a nudge nudge wink wink. We know it's a different actor. I at first I thought it was maybe something like that, but then they kept bringing up the hair. Although I did I did love voices, like I don't notice things like that.

That's that was a good line, right? And I did like I did really like the moments we got with La An being like, hey, this can this can affect you. Like hypothetically, if I were gonna give you advice, it would be this. And I I to me that is a a great use of La An, right? Because it remembers what she has been through and it kind of goes forward based on what she learned from that experience, instead of like a you know, oh I'm not sure, I just don't feel like myself, which is a thing I kind of had issue with during the season. But it's like this is how you use that well. This is you have her give confidential, potentially classified advice in a way that preserves a little bit of her plausible deniability. Like, I I really liked it, and it was a great moment. Like there are there are times when I'm like, I wish I could see more of the everyday life of this crew. Um I understand that's nobody's fault, it's a symptom of there being ten episodes. But when we do get those moments, I think they really shine, especially here. And yeah, we can't we can't pretend that Sally Rose Gooding didn't just dominate this entire episode.

Yeah. Okay, we all just say like incredible work.

Absolutely like outstanding work. I I mean as far as any issues I might have with this episode, none of them are Celia Rose Gooding. Like, right, you know what? She can carry an episode, she can double carry an episode. Hell yes.

I'm gonna nitpick a lot of plot stuff, but like this is still like a good episode. It's a solid B at least, and that's because of like the performances and the the aesthetic and everything. I I do want to talk about that Law scene because my favorite part is where she's like, Look, people are gonna die, you can't mess with the timeline, just let it go. And her goes, but it's Scotty, and then Laan in a moment decides to be like, Okay, as long as it's not that weenie red shirt that got shot as a puppet, like as long as it's not someone we don't care about. You're right. Maybe I'll I'll break protocol a little bit for Scotty.

Oh, it's a named character.

Well then, yeah, they're changes. We didn't mention it with with Henry, and we didn't mention it with Chris Fisher. I will say, just to shout out, in case nobody calls it, they literally stir the cream out of the coffee. I mean, in in the reversing of the shot. I'm like, which is perfect for such a you know, literally a famous saying for you can't, you know, you like something you can't do, Uhura pulls off of this episode. I mean, who was it?

I think it was Newman who caught that that shot. And I was like, I did, I mean, I noticed the shot, I did not recognize the white and black hole until Chris told us. I was like, of course. I was more looking that like Uhura put her sugar in and then added the coffee to the sugar, and I was like, that's weird. I guess it was to it was to signify the white hole.

That's yeah, right. And strangely coffee-centric episodes in the latter half of this season. Like, you can have coffee matter that much twice. That's protecting.

Well, they're not getting break time, so they gotta do something, right?

That is that appears to be the running theme, is like everybody is busy all the time, and it's like even when they're taking time off, they're busy, which is an interesting like what if that was the through line to the season? It's just a an interesting choice. Um and I and I don't want to get away from the performances too much because obviously Celia did a great job with the subtleties and the difference of the two Uhuras, right? The two Huras, like having just a little bit more maturity and a little bit more confidence, and not being like an entirely different character. The subtlety there is really impressive. But I also want to shout out Jess Bush because Future Chapel it feels like the chapel we know mixed with the chapel we've been seeing. Like she doesn't get a ton to do, but like she's really nailing it. I think it's a really, really good like uh what's the I think it's a really good showcase of her skill, and we don't always get that. And I was just really grateful to her.

What did you think about Chapel, John?

I I appreciated that because I was thinking the same thing, like, oh, it's great that she's doing this, and then she and Uhura have the conversation. She walks up and like, did that pass the Bechtel test? Because Uhura talked about seizing the day, and Chapel talked about her relationship with Spock. I'm like, but that's who Chapel is in the original series, is pining over Spock, and taught like I was like, either that's brilliant or kind of weird, like, yeah, that's pretty much Chapel in the original series. So I I enjoyed that they were like kind of kept it accurate, but her performance was great.

I I I mean, I'm I I think you're both right, like she's being TOS Chapel, and I think Spock's being more TOS Spock. Again, the time jump was originally supposed to be further along. But I just the first time I watched it, I was like, why is everyone on Kirk's ship so bitchy? They felt so bitchy. Both of them, I and mostly just those two, like Boyce and Kirk were pretty jovial, but like Spock is just giving a herra a hard time. Like, we never see Spock do that. And Chapel is cold. I mean, she's better in the Kirk scene. She opens up, you see, she seems to more have like a cold exterior with like a warmth underneath that has to kind of be brought out by a Hura. But I mean, just like when someone says, Can I ask you a question? and the person responds, You just did, like, you're dead to me. I'm sorry. I cannot deal with that.

Cameron has a low bar, okay.

I don't know. That that just jumped out at me, both that line and their performances in general.

I mean, TOS Spock is pretty bitchy. Like, I get it. I get it.

I think that's what they were doing, but like I was like, wow.

But also, also, they are bitchy and immediately supportive of Uhura. Like they are, yes. Like, like completely are like, okay, let's fix this. Let's what do you need? Let's do this. So I I can take. I mean, it's a different captain, it's a different ship, it's different lighting. They're not getting their vitamin D because the lights are dimmer in the in the corridors. I mean, come on, can you know? Lack of bitchy.

They're supposed to feel different. I mean, it is a year. We don't know what they've been through. We don't. It sounds like this crew goes through a lot in the next year.

Yes, it does. Yeah. Well, they're gonna have to because there's a lot to wrap up. Uh let's actually go ahead and hear from a new caller, uh, or callers, I suppose. Here is uh lots of people.

All right. Hi. Hi, guys. Are we doing it? Hi hi guys. Yeah, okay. Uh it is Laurel Nicolan, the annual of polyamateur hour, plus our entire Trek Knew. And we just launched the season finale of uh what's that show called?

Strange New Worlds.

Strange New Worlds. Thank you. So everyone just like all at once just say what you thought. Okay, my biggest take is I can't believe that you guys kept a secret for so long that my crush get together and deliver a space baby together, kind of ish.

We reached out and held hands at the moment when Uhura and Scotty were getting together in this episode.

Yeah. And I didn't even say anything embarrassing at all until now. Until this moment. Is that it? Anybody, any last thoughts?

Space for the space trade. Love the episode and Daniel loved it. Love you, Sonia.

I feel like I was there.

So what Laurel is referring to there is uh we did introduce her to Martin Quinn at Star Trek Las Vegas, and the first thing she said was, There are so many gross tastes in my mouth right now. Which was because she had been eating and ran across the convention floor to meet Martin. But it was it was one of those like it's the kind of thing where you picture what you're gonna say when you meet somebody, but then what you actually say does not line up with that. Yeah. So I just wanted to give people a little bit of insight there. And I think this is really cool because a lot of what I've been seeing and kind of what I was feeling is like, really? Scotty and Uhura, okay. Like, all right, alright. So to to know that that actually really hit for some people and like made them have a moment of connection, I think is really cool.

And I do just want to say Trek Wash parties? Come on, man. That's just not fair. Like, I'm glad there are actually trek watch parties still happening out there, especially post-pandemic, especially in the day, the age of New Trek. Like, how many how many New Trek shows do you think have gotten watched and by parties compared to TNG and and you know DS9 shows like that back in the days? Uh it's gotta be a sm a less than a percent.

And they had pizza. I know this. Yeah. Insider knowledge, and I was very jealous.

I could have been there, but I was I stayed home to edit.

Wow. So you're all welcome. I hope you appreciate the Chris Fisher interview to the podcast. Dedication. Yeah, yeah. I like that.

Um Cameron Harrison, one of the hardest working part podcasters in the business, folks.

No fingertips and clicky finger to the phone.

Oh, you don't have the little uh little quick buttons?

There was a time my ears from just wearing headphones for so long during a day were starting to hear I need new headphones.

Oh yeah. Give you some nice cushion. We didn't know about Scotty and Uhura.

We didn't know about it.

I will I will say that. Of our insider knowledge, of our of what we've NDA'd, uh that was never something I believe that came across our place.

Not for me either. Yep. But speaking of things that maybe we do know in NDA, Jesse, what do you think this episode is hinting at for season five?

I they're gonna have to kill La Ann. They're gonna have to kill her, or they're going to have to take her away in a way that is painful. Because there was no Oh, who's La An? Right? So she hasn't been like erased from anyone's memory, which to me indicates maybe no DTI affiliation or like maybe she does end up with them, but Kirk's not allowed to say anything. I don't know. I think they're gonna kill La An. I'm gonna be bummed. But if they don't let Ortegas become a captain and fly her ship for fun, like they showed us in this episode, I will be very, very upset. You've already given me this future out for her, and it's perfect, and I love it. And if you take it away, I will be mad. I will cry, there will be t-shirts, like this is this is not cool if you if you rip this from me after having shown me how happy she is to have her own ship.

Yeah, but I wonder why she left.

Well, she left because she's a better pilot than Kirk, and she's probably a better pilot than Sulu, and she was like, you know what? I need to go somewhere where people aren't always second guessing my piloting skills. I just and you know, maybe she went maybe she's uh working in tandem with Beto or something, like maybe he's there making a documentary, like here's here's what life after Starfleet can look like. You can still be happy. Um and she does seem to still be helping Starfleet, right? Like she's training, maybe she's training the next generation of pilots, sort of a thing. But uh it does leave open the question of Una. And I I really wonder about this because it seems natural. I mean, you know, me as a fanboy, I'm like, give everyone their own ship, they're all captains, it's fine. But I could see where, like, dramatically, maybe that's not what you want to do with all three of your original characters here. It does leave the question of Una wide open, and I'm it's interesting because I find myself in a spot where I'm like, I think I might be okay with whatever they choose. Like, I like Una a lot. I really do. I think that Rebecca Romain has really added a lot of depth to this character who had only ever appeared once before. She's made me care more about the character. I could see them going a diplomat route with her, having her be like, you know, hey, we can't raise you to captain because we're still racist against Illyrians, and even though we give you that exception, it's not a complete win and all this stuff. So maybe she does the diplomat thing and she starts to work to change Starfleet from the inside rather than in like on the bridge. But I don't know. Like, I don't think they will kill her. Um I do think they will kill Laon, and they better not kill Ortega.

Well, in DAB Dan, I'm gonna tell you what happens to Lawn right now. So as soon as that lizard guy beamed on to the Enterprise as an ensign, she just tackled him and started like pummeling him, and they had to haul her away and lock her up because of that. You know, Laon and that lizard guy cannot work on the same shit together.

Now that Laon has accepted her shadow self, that includes the racism, is what they say. That's right, that's right.

Yes, yes, yes. This is not what happens, everyone. But it is it is funny because I watched this and uh, you know, clearly they're they seem to be setting some stuff up for a year from now. But I also was like, but it's also there's it's time travel. There's butterfly effect. We mostly saw an alternate timeline where Scotty died, not what would be the real timeline. Um like the lawn line is in, you know, that all gets butterfly affected, basically, because they saved Scotty. Right, maybe. And so like I asked both Chris and Henry, and Henry was like, I don't know. And Chris was like, no, they did all that with intention. But looking online, like everyone was like just taking it as fact that this is the year that we're, you know, that this year is set in stone for the most part, which I thought was interesting that I I was like, I don't know, and everyone else was like, nope, nope. Apparently, Erica, fine, off as a captain, Mbenga working on Vulcan for some reason and Laon something mysterious.

Well, Vulcans are part of Mbenga's specialty, even in TOS, I believe. So it's I'd be like that part tracks. Um I do, I mean, I think you're right to call out Scotty dying because it's like uh Scotty didn't die.

Right.

Like we that's weird.

Right. Like having a whole other person there for some reason.

Scotty dying makes it okay for a Hura to solo fly a shuttle into a black hole, which would require one of the best pilots of Starfleet to do. Why was she on that shuttle by herself in this timeline?

Yeah, I I mean, story reasons. Yeah, time travel story reasons. It's absolutely one of those things where you have to.

Actually, there's that Whitney Redshirt was on there and they just didn't care. They're like, oh thank God you're okay, Uhura. Right. Two other people died on the shuttle, no big deal though.

It's definitely bridge crew privilege happening, I think. Um but yeah, I mean the time travel thing always leaves questions, right? And a thing that I'm seeing online, which I did did not pop into my head at all, which is a little surprising, is that there are some people convinced that this space baby will become the Borg.

And I'm like, oh my god, what why? Sorry, why does everybody try to try to make everything the freaking Borg? The Borg? I was thinking like maybe the the Star Trek 4 alien, like yeah, I would say that more than the Borg, or a Q, or anything out of time, or a Mahani comet, or um the Borg.

Everyone wants everything to be the origins of the Borg.

It didn't track for me. I was like, no. I love welcoming all the points of view, but man, sometimes.

It's actually Gaynan. Gainen is the space, baby. There you go.

Yeah.

I mean, it would work better. Like, I just yeah, I I my guess is that it comes from we are the midwives. Like kind of is the same sentence structure as we are the Borg. But I didn't get collective consciousness on a large level outside of we're a group of people whose job is to do this thing. Like I I don't yeah, I don't personally see it as that. And I think if if it had been, there would have been some kind of acknowledgement, like, oh yeah, we're doing Borg stuff. Like, I think that would have been much more explicit if that were the intention.

So I am people would be able to worlds did the Borg.

People would for the first time ever, I'm not on the this is the Borg trail.

But yeah, I mean clearly I I would have liked maybe a little more signposting of like, hey, keep an eye out on La on next season because it didn't it didn't hit me quite as hard as it's obviously hitting other people, but I think that was intentional, and I think that is part of what makes us a good season finale in that it is setting stuff up for the next season. It is setting up like, oh, how do these characters get to these places? What is this mystery with this character? What will happen with Una? I think all that is really well done.

I mean, and as a series finale, like that could have been a very different story of like, oh no, Laan died too, and then Uhura has to be like, I can save one of them. You know, that would and and again, I'm not yeah, I go. That would have been a very, very different episode. Um I'm gonna do uh I'm gonna take Jesse's hat here. Uh, I'm gonna do a little bit of trivia. Years ago. Suck it, Jesse. Way back in the day when OpenPike Knight did their first interview ever. We talked with Melissa Navia about what Captain Ortega would say to go to warp. In this episode, she said vominos. I mean, as her as her let's go. What did she say would be her her go phrase in that interview with us?

Was it let's rock and roll?

It was rock and roll. Good work.

Well done. She says vominos in in broken circle as well, right? Yeah. She says that's what her phrase would be. Yeah. Nice. Good job, Jesse.

Oh, thank you. All right, if there's a reason it's called trivia. But I do I think we should ask this question that that the polyamateurs brought up. What is the space baby? And do we like did we see a space baby? And then I will say, Is Uhura the space baby?

It's getting a little 2001 there. Um I don't think the space baby is the the MacGuffin.

Like, yeah, it was it was birthed into interdimensional space. We cannot interact with it from where we are. It's a wormhole alien.

I don't know, man.

Yeah, it's this the it's going to go on and um and abduct Riker later on.

Yeah. Okay, you know what? If it's a prophet from DS9, I'm more on board with that than I would have been with the Borg. It's Ben Sisko's mom.

I don't know.

Yeah. Right. And the only reason I bring up Izuhura the baby is because it is she's kind of bringing her new self into this world, right? Like she's working with herself to give herself the the next part of her life. So but you're right, it's a little it's a little 2001.

All right, let's go ahead and hear from Michelle.

Hey, open pike night. Love the season finale, and that was mostly due to the performance of Saya Rose Gooding. She has been a gift to the franchise and has understood the assignment since day one. Being able to watch uh Uhura, a character I grew up with, given more depth when she was kind of sidelined in TOS in the movies, has also been such a gift. And in this episode, I really love the way Celia portrayed the two different Uhras. I think she really channeled the Michelle Nichols Ahura a little bit with TOS, but she also made it her own. And I respect the performance. I enjoyed their interactions, and watching Uhura go from a young ensign to lieutenant, and then almost getting to TOS Ahura, it was it was great. Um, just a very effective emotional performance, especially the scene between Pike and Ahura, which was kind of bittersweet because it reminds us our journey with this crew is almost coming to an end. And I do also enjoy the TAS references. When I was a kid, I had to beg my parents to buy the Columbian House VHS tapes of the animated series, and they did. And so to see those Easter eggs in there was great. Um the Crusher connections, I mean, there's so many. You've got yesterday's Enterprise, all good things, but I'm gonna go with Galaxy's Child, where Dr. Crusher helped to birth a space baby. So ultimately, this season for me was great. Uh it was a wild ride, and I look forward to hearing everybody's thoughts. Live long and prosper.

Talk about the restraint on Michelle to not mention the spoilery space baby for Cameron. I'm proud of you, Michelle.

Thank you, Michelle. What's going to happen? Uh I and the other way I think this episode is a great kind of season finale is it's I mean, that's the thing I've I'm now noticing, especially after last episode, for this whole season, is it is doppelganger and uh, you know, other self-centric. Oh my gosh. This whole episode has been like people coming face to face with people who look like them and then having to kind of like meld the two sides. I mean, even a case of Kira Scuro, like Una changes because she is mistaken to be this other person and she becomes more like that other person. Of course, Laan is is clearly on there. We see like the two selves in the horror episode same with Spock, and Uhura here is like literally right mentoring herself. After she thinks failing to mentor a shah, and she is now kind of lost in that way, she is now mentored by herself, and and that's a lot of fun. And yeah, I mean, again, I don't know what's going on in that writer's room that uh they're all like question themselves and like finding these shadow selves amongst themselves. But uh, yeah, I think this episode does a lot to kind of tie up the whole season together.

Waiting for Tom Ripley to show up on the crew of the Enterprise man.

It's them in the writers' room going, what if we were just mean to all the fans? What if we did this and they go, No, no, no, let's let's let's have a good thing.

Just that is exactly what a bunch of fans believe. So, yes. Yes. I know that's what I'm saying.

Like, they think they're being trolled, and this is the writers actually holding back and going, Well, we could be trolling you, but we're gonna actually do this instead.

Oh, we should like put a hint out there that it's like, trust us, when the we turn off the recorder with the writers, they tell us the real stuff. So don't worry. All the stuff that you think is true is true.

I always hated Star Trek, and I'm just here it was a long con to stick it to the fans.

Honestly, not to just continuously plug our other episodes, but like the interview with Chris Fisher for this episode, I think really captures the most direct answer to that question that I've heard so far, which is he's like, Look, we know we have a very smart audience, and you cannot have that without the audience asking a lot of questions and having their own criticisms. And they embrace that. Like they're not afraid of it, they're absolutely aware of it, and I think they've done a really great job of rolling with the punches so far. And I'm I I like definitely go listen to that because Chris really hits that nail on the head, and I think it's a very good point. Yeah.

And this is the the 10 episodes thing. I mean, that's the yeah.

I mean, I'm I'm really looking forward to our season uh retrospective, our personal one, because I I do have a lot of thoughts on it now, and I mean I still I love the season and I love Strange New Worlds and everything it's done, but I I mean the more we've kind of talked with the creatives, and I think Chris Fisher like shed a lot of insight. I've I I have I have thoughts.

I I'm gonna make a confession right now for every one of our season recaps. I have not gone back and rewatched the entire season before that recap. Oh shit. I probably am going to have to for this season.

Like I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, I'm like, I actually need to like go back and just unplug and just just watch these episodes to watch them, not for analysis, not for media use or whatever, but like, yeah, there's a lot in this season. There's a lot going on. So yeah.

I mean, the season, much like our coverage, has been dense. Like, yes, there's tons packed into everything. I'm I still need to know about the ghost, Cameron. Like, I I I'm not gonna let it go.

All right, let's go ahead and hear from Val.

Hey, open pike night. This is Val. Did I love the episode? Yes, it is one of my favorites. Celia was amazing at embodying present and future Uhura in distinctly different ways. But as a season finale, it may have been my lowest rated. Season one and two had cliffhangers, I was excited to see resolved. Season three, while not my favorite episode, gave us just a nice ending at the end with hope for the future. But this one, I don't know. For a long time, I really just wanted to know what the future holds for the non-TUS characters. But this episode made me wonder if I really want their futures wrapped up like that. Don't get me wrong, I love the bit we got with Ortega's, but I now wonder do I really want to see each character moved how they are in the original series? Do I want to see each non-legacy character moved off somewhere else, alive or dead? I'm not sure. I am sure that that is what we will get in season five, but this finale kind of made me wonder whether I really want that.

That's fair. I could see the argument for like, hey, let's let the novelists wrap up these three characters for us. Oh god. Oh god. Like I could, I can, I can see the argument there. I as a person watching the show, I'm like, you you need to give this to me on screen. Like I need I need to watch this. But I hear you a hundred percent, and I I I understand that feeling.

I But again, do we feel like that Laan crumb? Is that a cliffhanger? Does that count as a cliffhanger?

I don't think it does. I think it counts as a seed planted, personally.

I guess that's why I was missing I wanted it to feel more cliffhanger-y. Like give give her her a look at the end, but I know that would kind of undercut the hopefulness of the ending.

I mean, you guys were there when I was begging for the cliffhanger, and then the entire year and a half where I was regretting doing that. Your fault. Yeah. So I'm happy to take responsibility for that. But like, I don't know, I think so. For me, this is a better season finale than season three. Oh god, yeah. I liked the season three episode. I had so many questions, and there were things that bumped me. But for me, this is a better season finale because I come out of it with this kind of like as was mentioned, you know, there's more hopefulness to it. Like, I know season three had a a thing where it was like, no, you should be glad because you know, he got to experience this and there's a whole future ahead of them, and he feels like he's living a new life. But I was just sad. I was just sad. Like, so I I think for me, this one comes in higher than that one. Um, and it's not in it's not a like, you know, that one sucked and this one's great. It's just on my scale, I think this one is higher up personally.

So, I mean, one thing I was gonna save it for the retrospective, but it kind of ties in here, is like again to the year oneness of it all, everyone's talking about year one, like, and look, I would take year one. I love doing this podcast. I want some version of Stranger Worlds to continue so we can keep doing this podcast as is. And yeah, I would I would watch Kirk and Spock. I love these actors, I want to see them continue. I get it. At the same time, if the option were year one or let's take all the non-legacy characters and have them become like space pirates for some reason and follow their adventures, Laon and Erica and Una and maybe uh a Sam Kirk putting a robot in his version, so the robot is what got pancaked and he's fine on the ship. I don't know. Anyways, at least those three put him on a ship, have him like have space adventures. Let's follow those characters, let's make that the sequel show. Captain Erica with Laan and Una in tow.

I'd watch the hell out of that. Yeah.

And I I mean I'm and they could run into the others every once in a while. They could run into the others, maybe in Bengas with them, and like every once in a while is like, you know what, I'm gonna I've got uh a week on the ship I gotta go put in so I can collect my check.

Hey, I just finished offing some Klingons. Can we hang out? Um I'm I'm sure that everyone listening is aware, but in case you aren't, it sounds like no, we're not getting year one. Um and I think for me, the the thing that sucks the most about that is it means we're probably not getting Star Trek on TV new anytime soon. We're gonna get Academy, and I'm excited for Academy Season Two. But like, hey, maybe maybe you look at it as now I don't have to pay for a Paramount Plus subscription for a long time. But yeah, I mean I it is rough. I think we're coming up on a Star Trek Desert, and I'm I'm bummed about that. Maybe we do the greatest Trek thing and we just go back and start at season one, episode one of Strange New Worlds again, guys.

What do you think? We just keep going forever. I got other stuff I want a podcast about, man.

Yeah. I and and honestly, John, I think that will be a good like postseason episode or maybe a Patreon episode. There is stuff I want to talk about that isn't this. Yeah, but I do want I do worry for my ability to get my Star Trek feelings out in the future.

I think we I think we'll always have a way to get our Star Trek feelings out. Uh much like our caller, Mags. Let's hear what she has to say.

Hi everyone, it's Mags here. Just with my thoughts on the last episode of season four. Oh, you already know what I'm gonna say. That just wasn't enough hike. And also Future Enterprise I just I couldn't it just didn't feel like Enterprise on the whole. The episode was not one of my favorites. I do know one thing though that the public at Future Enterprise told me is just how much I'm gonna mess around overnight.

Alright, so as the the person here who doesn't know anything about season five, I think season five is gonna be very Pike-centric. Like almost out of necessity. Like this is gonna be this is the handoff, right? This is the end of Pike's story, as far as we know. Like I would imagine, again, with having zero knowledge, I gotta assume season five is gonna be incredibly serialized, one long six and a half hour story. Like you don't have I mean, they've already run into like, well, we only have ten episodes, we can only do so much. You now have six episodes, okay? Like, tell us one story, it's okay. It it's been long enough since Discovery. People will accept a single arc over six episodes, I think. Um I really hope that that is what it is. Because I agree that you know, for the Pike show, there has maybe not been enough Pike. I do appreciate that Anson Mount says he's not the star of the show, the Enterprise is. I think that's really, really good line and very diplomatic. But there were a lot of people wanting a show where Pike is the star of the show, and I think this is the easiest chance to give people that is with season five.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I thought it was interesting that Henry said this is a show called Pike. And I was like, well, a lot of people might disagree with that at this point, or like not be feeling that at this point. Um I really liked the scene between Pike and Uhura on its own, but there was a feeling of it like it almost felt like Pike saying goodbye. And it I was like, was this was this filmed before they knew about season five? This feels like a farewell to this character.

More like a farewell than than anything else in the season, than the episode. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It just kind of stood out in that way.

And I think it was more I think it was more a farewell to that Uhura, you know, like saying saying something he knows he might not get a chance to say to the Uhura he knows now. Um just taking the advantage of that opportunity. But it was it was a very good scene, and like there's there's several touching moments in this, but that one I felt really went over above and beyond the other ones.

Um what do you guys think of the observation that the future enterprise didn't feel right?

Well, again, they felt bitchy to me, so yeah.

Yeah, I mean it was dark, it was obviously. They were bitchier in TOS.

Clearly, DI DEI initiatives are in effect, and everyone's angry about it. That's what it feels like. No, just like Cameron would be.

But so they're like, oh, it's too woke. They're like, then turn down the lights and you'll get sleepy. I don't know.

Well, I think some of it might come from I think Chris Fisher talked about this. Like Kirk's captain style is different. Mike is much more, I'm the dad, let's hear from everybody. I'm you know, I'm open to all ideas. Kirk is like, I'm gonna listen to Spock and McCoy, and that's kind of it. Like, I'll listen to Scotty after I push back on him like 15 times, but I will listen to him. So I do wonder if it's if that's part of that shift where it's like Kirk does tend to put himself at the center of every issue on the ship, and you know, that's a function of him being the main character of TOS, but like I do wonder if just the vibe was so different that it felt off because to me, I I mean, kind of it I thought it felt like how Kirk's Enterprise kind of feels. Like he's there, he wants to know everything, and he's gonna be there for it. So I'd be interested to hear more from Mags about that.

Yeah. I mean, I appreciated the line early on. Early on that ship, we get Kirk being like, Yeah, I'm still figuring this out. And that's what it felt like to me. It felt like we were a month into a new captain and it's still a little awkward.

Yeah. I think, I mean, I know obviously a lot of people are a lot of big fans of Pike. Pike's a great captain. Pike's a fun character, but we know what happens with Pike. We know the end of his story. Um, we've known it for 60 years and and then some. So I I get why they don't focus as much on Pike, but also I kind of feel it reflects the time we're in, the time that Pike is a captain. Kirk was a captain 60 years ago when the dashing white male guy was the lead of the show in every show, and he had other supporting characters who maybe weren't white or weren't American to support him. And yeah, Star Trek broke down a lot of barriers, but not all of them. It was still a show from the 60s, and this is a show from the 2020s, and Pike is being what has been up to the point where this show started in 2022, like an ideal of what a relatively cis, white, attractive, smart American man is supposed to, like the ideal of like, yeah, you know, support the others around you, listen to the others around you, build up the others around you, don't take center stage all the time. So have trouble accessing your emotions, but eventually get there. Exactly. Like, like he's doing the work, and that means not putting himself front and center.

I mean, I think that's all 100%. I also think it's a lot of well, he's come to terms with his, you know, not death, but his his fate in season one. What do you do with a character like that? And the actor is having kids and not available as much as we like. I mean, I honestly I think those two are big parts of what like, okay, he's he's there sometimes.

Exactly. And and it's yeah, real life affect you know, that's the thing too, is real life affects actors and is allowed to affect actors more today than it was 60 years ago. 60 years ago, studios could be pretty horrific to you if you had personal issues. In fact, they would sometimes really exploit those personal issues. So I say it it stands as a testament.

Yeah. Shatner would absolutely be missing the birth of his first two children. Oh, absolutely. Whereas Anson Mount doesn't have to do that.

Exactly. Right. Exactly. So I do, I'm gonna say I hope we get seven and a half hours total out of six episodes. I hope they go a little long. I know they can't do 90 minutes for each one, but maybe an hour 15 for Stranger Things can. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Did well that's the only show on that platform, so that's a little different. Yeah. Strange New Worlds has Taylor Sheridan to compete with.

Yeah, exactly. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Grayson.

Hey guys, okay, three things about the uh season four finale. First off, Picard season three spoilers are coming, so skip ahead if you haven't seen it. But before you do that, season two of the Prime Detective is now available wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, three. Things one space baby. If this is the first canonical space baby, Beverly Crusher should not have been surprised in Picard season three. There have been so many space babies between this one and that one. Why is Starfleet always caught off guard by Space Baby? Two season five. What if next time we see the Enterprise, we pick up with black hole enterprise instead of white hole enterprise? That way we skip the accident, we skip the pike to Kirk transition, no beep beep chair. Is it clever? Is it lazy? I don't know, but I could see it. Number three, that kiss. Uhura and Scotty kissing genuinely made me emotional because now they've put a kiss before Kirk and Uhura's, which, yes, under duress, problematic. But a white man kissing a black woman on national on network television in 1968 was historic. So does this kiss, which happens canonically before that kiss, diminish that moment? I predict so many think pieces will be written about this. Overall, I have a lot of timey whimy issues and some definite black hole physics issues, but that was a pretty great finale. Jesse, John Cameron, thank you for giving us this platform all season. Happy fall.

Happy fall, yes. Happy fall. Let's call them overthink pieces. Yes. I think it's fine. Like, and I I suspect that Grayson falls into that as well. Like it's it's it's okay. And it is just a sign of the progress. Like now, that's just something that happens on TV, right? And maybe we can thank Star Trek for that. But like, I mean the thing, the thing for me was like, are they would they would they work together? Do they have chemistry? Like, I mean, the actors did a great job. It was just like, as was mentioned, this feels like it came out of nowhere.

So one of my issues with the episode is, and you know, this is kind of one we uh apply to a lot of episodes, in which the writers themselves have said a lot this season, like, we just want to make movies, we want to make little movies, and this, especially the finales, you know, going back to all the finales and premieres of the seasons, they always make them big and epic, and that was kind of one of my problems with the broken circle. Is like, this feels like it could have and should have been a movie. This one also felt like it could have and should have been a movie. We get Uhura working with herself across time, like that's a really cool idea. You could make a whole movie about that. They have made whole movies about that, and we get it in about 15 minutes, and it felt a little sped up. I wanted a little bit more breathing room with that. I want to hear Uhura badger herself about her dating life, yes, but not in the scene where we hear it. It felt very kind of shoehorned into that scene. A lot of that felt a little so that that's like why this goes down from like being A to a B plus, is stuff like that. It feels a little rushed. Some art parts feel a little shoehorned, and uh that's that's I just want to get out of it sometimes.

I just I just I was like, you know, there's not enough primer in Star Trek. I really want that kind of time travel confusion. Going on. Oh man. Um I I do I'm glad he said timey whimey in there because there were moments in this one like this feels like it could have been the Doctor Who episode.

Like this those whole I wonder, because apparently the finale was supposed to be the Shatner episode, but was the Shatner episode also gonna be the Doctor Who episode? Because it made sense, yeah.

Like this, this, you know, I've I know I said that about one other episode this season, but it's like this feels another like this very much could have worked in a Doctor Who subplot space baby thing, the the working across time, like the the swap, all of it would have fit really well with that. But it works great without it. I'm not saying it was necessary, but I just I still am seeing the shadows of the of the breadcrumbs they laid there to make some weird.

Why is Uhura the only one affected? Is it because she heard the musical notes? Because she's got the earpiece, because she already was affected?

I don't know. Because it's time forward, time backward. Like I said, I want more primer in my life.

I mean, that's that's not a question that really bugs me, but it's one after on like the third watch. I was like, wait a second, why is no one else swapping places?

Man, this this season is all about that, you know. Like like this, this is the eighth time this season you could ask that question of one of our main characters. Like, why is it?

I think it goes to the like in a movie, this would get answered in 60 minutes, they're just rushing past that point.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and at least Spock wasn't knocked out for this entire plot and actually affect him. But I do to Zoe's point from earlier, I think we do need to get Dr. Aaron on soon. Yes, absolutely, and just give her a chance to like platform. What did they not let you do? Like what were the points where like this has to be this way, and they were like, nah, we don't want that. Like, yeah. Um, but I do wonder like if time travel episodes almost always feel maybe they they're too short because it's such a concept, right? Like it's so heady and it does introduce so many questions and mechanics and things like that. It's like, do you ever get a time travel episode where you feel all of the questions have been succinctly answered by the end of it? Like, and I'm not saying that, like, hey, don't worry about it, they don't have to. I'm just wondering, is there an example where somebody would go, this is the perfect time travel episode?

This was another thing I I did bump on some, is and I know it's I know they have that the she has the conversation with Lan for this reason. Like you have to have Uhura be like, okay, I can't tell anyone. I you right for the premise of the story, you want Uhura working on her own, kind of going rogue a bit, right? I get why they want that. I just don't buy it. Every scene where she was lying, I was like, why are you lying? Just tell him. Just tell him. Pike literally blew up a gas station on a uh based on a hunch you had, Uhura. Like he will be understanding. And I kind of get it in the first couple scenes because again, like, okay, it's time travel. I know I'm not supposed to try to change the future, but I'm gonna try to change the future because Scotty, not the red weenie. But within like two scenes of talking to other Uhura, they find out like Scotty shouldn't be dead, like they already affected the future. They're now trying to fix the timeline. Fucking bring in the entire crew at that point, like get everyone on your side. And so yeah, I just I kept bumping on it, and I don't think they set up like Uhura being scared to talk about it more enough.

Well, and we know Pike is perfectly willing to just not file that report. Exactly.

I can maybe understand, like, yeah, with Kirk, they don't know, and maybe hammer that. Like, we don't know if we can tell Kirk this. We don't know if he's a whole rule breaker yet. But like, yeah, you know Pike is gonna back you on this.

Except now we know that Kirk's career is predicated on Benga taking the fall for a thing.

So it's like uh one more, one more shot of the end of the Pike Uhura conversation where she's like walking out the door and then she turns back and she's like, I need to tell you something about La Ann, and then like walks back into the door closed behind her, we don't get to hear it. Yes, like yes, that would feel like a cliffhanger. Yeah, yeah, that would have made it gone from a seed to a cliffhanger, yes.

And actually, and that was the my my kind of last little complaint is and I asked Henry about this, is it did feel a little imbalanced, and maybe it goes again in a full movie, would have gotten more, is when we kind of just stop following TOS Uhura. And Henry's like, well, it's because Strange New Worlds Uhura, you know, lost contact and now she's on her own. And I'm like, yeah, I'd get that. That would be a cool scene if like now we're just with Uhura stuck in the future. But we don't, we jump back and forth for like two more times and then just kind of arbitrarily stop following TOS Uhura. And you know, we see the parts we need to see. We see her talk to Scotty and Scotty be like, Oh, I think I could figure out this language, and we see Pike tell her, like, you do what you gotta do. So I I didn't need necessarily need to see her do all the stuff with the the stone on the wall, but like it did just feel weird that suddenly we stopped following that story.

Well, and is that crew gone from existence now? Like, did they prevent those things from happening? You know what I mean? Like, were they erased, or is there still a continuing timeline where Scotty is dead and things have changed?

Like well, but that that crew it branched off at the yeah, it's it branched off at the space baby at the shuttle explosion because Ortega's died in that explosion too. Um, which I'm surprised you haven't brought up yet, Jesse. But yeah, like that that crew that branch, I think yes. Well, you're asking if it does.

Yeah, right. Yeah, are these do these branches continue?

And it seems like they're emotionally emotionally, no, it doesn't. But scientifically, does it count? Like, because you're right, I have to protect myself from certain things emotionally. You know, Jesse, he's like, what are two lives? Doesn't count. As long as they're not Ortega, but the but like is this so now is this the novel territory, right? Like, is there a chance now for somebody to go, oh, I'm gonna follow that crew because it would be very different? Like, I I don't know. And it it is one of the questions that comes up inevitably with a time travel episode. And I I'm not here to say, like, you gotta answer that question, but I am here to say I'm asking that question.

Yeah, fair. No, that's fair. Fair. All right, let's go ahead and hear from K Sarah Sarah.

Greetings, open pike night. With apologies to John Bacchus Dykes and Reginald Heber, I wrote a little parody song in honor of this episode. Holy, holy, holy season four finale. Uhura in three timeline. Save the space, baby. What a difference a year can make. Uhura embraces her inner good time gal. Ortega gets promoted from lieutenant all the way up to captain and kind of looks like she's off to lead a resistance somewhere. And Kirk no longer has to make up reasons to be on Enterprise. I've spent the last year unemployed and struggling, so I'm really glad to see these characters are thriving over the course of a year. I do wonder seriously, how far into production this episode was when the show was granted its fifth season, because with a few tweaks, this episode could have been a relatively satisfying series of an alley. Make the time jump a little longer to make some of the changes a bit more believable, have Laon join temporal investigations, eliminate memory engrams related to her from everyone else, keep that heartwarming ending, and voila, a series of an alley. No tears, only good memories of a time spent with great people. That's all from me. Have a fab folly, y'all.

Everyone's in the full spirit. I love this. Okay. Two things. Jesse, why are you so sure that when Kirk goes La'an, that's not him being like, I've never heard that name before.

It could be just the feeling that I got was she gone.

Interesting. Interesting. And then what was the other thing? And so, yeah, I mean, there was a lot of talk about the what the one year. I someone in our Discord was like, Would she call herself kid after one year? And I was like, Yeah, maybe. I didn't know, I don't know if I bumped on the kid, but even her her is a little bitchy, even her her is a little bitchy to her old self. I don't know what it is about Kirk's Enterprise, but interestingly, I I was listening to the Sci-Fi Sisters interview with Celia Rose Gooding, and there she explicitly said the original script was a three-year jump, and they filmed some scenes that way, and then they changed it to a one-year. In our conversation with Henry, I think I cut this part because at the time I didn't know what that he was talking about, something specifically. I was asking, like, huh, you guys did a one-year. Was that, you know, after you got the this last season because you knew you weren't going past a year? And he's like, Well, those things weren't connected. Sometimes we just make decisions just to make decisions. And now I'm wondering, like, why did they change it? Why did they change from three year to one year? I don't know. I don't know.

Well, and I as I said earlier, I mean, maturity is just wanting to kick your younger ass because you're like, I was so confident with no reason to be confident. I was very cringy, I was doing these things, and I thought it was the way to go, and now I understand like that was probably difficult to be around. So I just kind of took that as a hurrah, being like, you know what? I know you're feeling yourself because you just got promoted, but like, relax. Like, we got plenty of stuff left to do. It's it's okay that you were that way. I'm embarrassed about it, but I'm probably focusing more on it than everybody else around me is. Like, and I mean, there's people I call kid just to kind of be like funny and you know, like they're older than I am, and I say, hey kid, like, because whatever. It's it's better than saying, hey old man, like it just you it's a kind of a way to be nice to people, so like it could be that. Um but I I don't know, like I don't know about the series finale of it all because like I haven't seen the changes, I haven't seen the original script with the changes K Sarah mentioned, yes, maybe, but as it stands, no, I don't think this would have worked as a series finale. Uh it leaves too much open, it doesn't wrap enough things up. And I do wonder, did the original script wrap more things up? Was it were we sure what happened to La Ann? Were we sure what happened to and those things had to get pulled out, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it does make me wonder, but that's a whole other episode because that's a huge arc to just say to give one line to finish it up, right? So I wonder if the episode was fundamentally different.

I feel like they would have gotten 90 or 100 minutes if it were gonna be the series finale. Like they're we would have had another half hour.

Well, again, they were headed towards production not knowing. So it was written not knowing, they might get another episode or not. So no, they probably wouldn't give definitive things, they would just give those hints. So yeah, probably maybe not changed as much as as we're thinking right now. Because they would have to leave it open for more seasons if they got more seasons.

True. It does make me wonder, and I really wonder if we, as the premier strange new worlds podcast in the world, yeah, might someday get to see that script. Like maybe, you know, maybe a year down the line we can be like, hey, can we just can we see it? Can we know it? Can we do a table read of it? Like, help help us out, man. Like, I mean, how cool would that be? I I just it does make me wonder so much about the original script, and not necessarily in a bad way. I do think they landed in a good spot with it. Yeah, but now I'm craving to read that script.

Yeah, I just I I love understanding how they would balance that. Like it's real tricky.

Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Trev.

Hey, it's Trev beaming in from the Fair That Franchise Podcast to talk about tomorrow's enterprise. And look, Trek has done time travel before a lot, but usually they go forward or backward centuries in time. Our characters are placed in times when they're fish out of water or able to interact with characters from a whole different era. Only Strange New Worlds would be brave enough to time travel one whole year. Alright, I'm playfully giving them a hard time, but I have to admit, Uhura calling the her of just 12 months ago kid and telling her to never stop learning did make me roll my eyes a little. But other than that, this was a really strong finale. I love that it wasn't a giant potential universe-ending adventure, and rather just a smaller stakes tale. No offense, Scotty. But making the finale a character piece for Uhura was a really cool, unexpected move. Even I, someone who has complained about the lack of Pike focus in the show since the first season, has to admit it was pretty neat to give the core of the finale over to another beloved character that was never really given her full due on the original series. Speaking of TOS, yes, this episode was also clearly trying to act as even more proof of concept for year one. But since we now know we're not gonna get that show, it was kind of cool to see a glimpse of Wesley's Captain Kirk, but thankfully in an episode that managed to contrast him with Pike and give them both time and great moments. Though I will say, does anyone else think it's felt like Spock has been sort of downplayed in this show ever since the Puppet episode and has moved closer toward his TOS persona? Almost like these writers don't find original Spock as interesting as the more human multi-relationship having Spock. Still, though, this was quite good. I want to do a full rewatch before saying this for sure, but maybe my favorite SW finale yet. Can't wait to hear what you guys think.

Sorry for stepping on your toes there, Trev.

Yeah. God, we just said it was supposed to be three years, Trev. Were you not listening?

But that was another thing I thought it was interesting when Chris was like, yeah, he kept they on set, they would refer to that as the TOS era. And I was like, really? I don't it's it's like again, like maybe a month or two or three into Kirk's captainship. That's not TOS era. So again, I think it was originally supposed to be like plopped into the middle of TOS as opposed to just this transition period.

And that would make sense why we got the animated series characters because that is those are supposed to be the last two years of the five-year mission.

So just just knee jerker, how do you guys feel? Has Pike had his accident by the time Future Hurrow's story is happening? Oh no. Okay. Kate and Jesse, did you feel like he had?

I don't think there's enough there to guess one way or the other. Like I mean, I'm gonna say no because she wasn't like upset about Pike. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like there was no line of her being like, well, and after what happened to poor Captain Pike, it's like so I gotta assume that hasn't happened yet.

Or in the conversation with him and be like, sir, I have to it's like I know. No, no, no, I have to no no, I know. Right. Like also could have been a very fun scene. Yeah.

Like But I just think timeline-wise, like it happens post TOS episode one, right? Like it happens shortly before the menagerie.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Um, and I think they just kind of established even in in the flashback, uh, you know, at the end of last season, that it kind of happens a ways, a ways after he leaves Enterprise.

Well, into the Spock of it all, I hear ya. But I'm also like, I don't know, I think we've had enough Spock. Like I'm not saying I don't want to hear Yeah, and I'm not saying I don't want to see more Spock. I'm done with Spock. I'm just saying for this season, there's been enough Spock. I think it's okay to to kind of transition away from his character for one episode. Because I mean he he did have a lot of fun in the last episode as well, and sure, it wasn't actually Spock, right? But like it was Ethan Peck and it was that character, and he was pretending to be Spock. So it's like I I you know, not to poo-poo any complaints or anything like that. I just I think I can understand from the writing perspective where they'd be like, this one doesn't need to also be very Spock heavy.

Yeah.

Well, and I think I think Trev's right that they probably do prefer their Spock. But also like if if he gets moved to TOS Spock, well we have TOS Spock, why are you showing us more of it? Like it inherently becomes less interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Alright, let's go ahead and hear from Katrine.

Hi openpiking. I thought the last episode started really well, and I absolutely love the Uhura storyline. Side question Did we see a beluga whale when she was in Cetacean Ops? I was looking out for one and I think we saw something moving. I hope someone else will comment on that. However, we did learn here that in a year from now all the non-TOS characters are gone, and that made me really sad. I fell in love with Strange New Worlds because of all these characters that are not in TOS, and of course also because of Spock and Uhura. I'm scared of season 5 and that bit by bit we lose Pike, Una, Laan, Ortega's and Dembenger. I'm not looking forward to this at all. Why couldn't they give us five great years with the Strange New Worlds crew? Why does it have to end in TOS? I don't want that. I don't mind the big swings at all, but I do mind not seeing my beloved Pike and Co. However, I want to end on a positive note. For me, the best moment in this episode was when Uhuna talked to Pike, called him Chris, thanked him, and finally hugged him. That was so emotional to me, and I wanted to hug them too and never let go. Thanks for your podcast and live long and prosper.

Have we theorized that maybe we have, but maybe not as explicitly, that season five, each episode will be a farewell to a character and then a hello to year one? I'm I'm trying to map it out. So Erica, Laan, Una, uh, and Banga all have to say goodbye. Then Kirk. Ah! We're gonna wedge him in as just like an off-screen mention. But then Pike says goodbye, and then the last episode is year one. That I mean that tracks out why they would need six episodes.

Yeah. Well, maybe put maybe Sam just goes to the Pancake Planet, and that's you know, he's not in a bunch of season five. But I Mbenga doesn't need to say goodbye. He's there.

We need a re we need a reason for why he goes to Vulcan and is no longer on the Enterprise. Like we need a goodbye to the character, yes.

We have the reason. We need a reason for him to not be CMO. Like maybe we need a scene where he's not no longer CMO, but like I mean, we're not losing his character per se. And Strange New Worlds is. Strange New Worlds is, but you know what I mean. Like it it's not like they need to tie him off the same way they need to tie off Erica or Una or Laan. Like they have more leeway with Mbenga, I think.

And arguably why I don't understand.

Arguably for Sam Kirk. Well, we know Sam Kirk ends up on a planet where he gets pancaked to death. Right. And Mbenga, we know is still on the ship, he's just not CMO. So like we could get explanations for that, but I don't think it needs to necessarily be to your point, it doesn't need to be a full episode because we're gonna need a lot of time for Laan, Una, and Erica, in my opinion.

Uh I think if they were going to go into a year one show, which was the intention when they filmed season five, Mbenga would not be uh a regular character on that show and they would need to say goodbye in an emotional way to his character.

I don't know.

I kind of wonder about it because they would need to wrap up everything we've seen for the last four seasons.

Yeah. I I mean when you're careening toward a pre-established story like you are with TOS, I feel like they're they might feel less responsibility to tie off Mbenga and Sam Kirk in particular because we know their fates. I'm not saying that that's the right way to go. I'm just saying, like, if you have limited time, and you have But you have that episode.

You have the ep they have enough episodes. If they're gonna say goodbye to Mbenga, which I feel they would want to because he's been a series regular with all this character, and he's not gonna go on to have more character development like Kirk and Uhura and Spock will, then you you I mean, probably Chapel you want to have some too, so maybe the numbers don't quite work out. Maybe Mpenga and Chapels are tied together.

I m my point being I don't know the math. Right. Like I don't know what they would feel compelled to definitively answer.

But like will what episode will episode one be like Una's episode and we say goodbye to Una and she leaves the show, and then episode two is gonna be Erica's episode and we say goodbye to Erica and then she leaves the show, and so on and so forth, and then episode five, Pike leaves the show, episode six is the year one crew.

I hope that that is not the case. Like I don't I don't I don't want a full episode with no Pike. Um I get that people will argue we've kind of already had those, but I I want the last episode to be Pike centric. Like if in the last couple of scenes he's handing over command, fine. But I don't want the last episode to be Kirk's first, if that makes sense, right? Like um I I am very interested for season five. I understand having some fear about it. I really am interested to see again, what do they feel they need to tie off and what do they feel is like we can do a couple lines or part of an arc with this character and then say, okay, that's where they are at the start of TOS. Having no knowledge about it, I am in the same spot where I'm just wondering. I mean, for me, you could do four episodes on Ortega's and Mbenga and have that be most of season five. I'm fine with that. But like I I doubt that's gonna happen. Just to me about what I was suggesting.

At least we'll get a full episode of Ortega where we really get to like spend time with her and wrap up everything and say goodbye. And then we get a full episode with Una and get to wrap up everything and say goodbye. That that I wouldn't I wouldn't hate that structure for season five.

I wouldn't either. And I do I could see Laon's arc being two or three episodes, honestly. Because I feel like if you start doing those in two.

Multi-episode arcs, then you're gonna lose that. You're gonna kind of I don't know. We don't really get that in these past seasons.

Maybe like and I'm not here to say like I'm sure their season five will be perfect.

Like, it may not. And I don't, and I don't know. Like, I know bits and pieces, but I don't know like full kind of arcs and stuff that they're doing.

And that's where it's like, you know, do you do you need more time for Laon because she's now so enmeshed in the history of Kirk and Spock? Right when she's not mentioned in TOS, or do you just need one thing and say that wipes the slate? Right. Do you need a full episode for Mbenga because we know he's there, but he's not usually front and center. So, like, do you need a full episode for that, or do you just say, well, here's the deal, he's no longer CMO, okay. Now that's fine. I don't know. I I do wonder what they feel the responsibility to as far as the character arcs go. Um and I can see that giving you apprehension about season five. I I am in the same boat, like, yeah, I wish we got five seasons of just these new characters with Pike, and you know, I wish they were five full seasons. I wish they were five fifteen or twenty episode seasons. But going back to watching the show we have, like, I kind of I mean, I'm bummed that it's gonna be over. Like, there's no way around that. I I am just trying to stay optimistic for the fifth season because I do I love this show and I'm really excited for more of it, and I'm gonna feel it when it's not here anymore.

I think it's gonna be a really good season five.

I think it's gonna be an excellent season five.

I do have faith of the heart that it will be a good season. There you go. There you go.

Alright, let's go ahead and hear from Anthony.

What's up, guys? This is Anthony Kelly calling in from Hong Kong. Now, a quick question first. Do you remember your first TV crush? For me, I remember being a little kid watching reruns of the original series and thinking that Michelle Nichols as Uhura was the most beautiful woman in the galaxy. She was smart, she was elegant, and even after watching my first Star Trek movie in theaters, The Final Frontier, and discovering that she was in fact old enough to be my grandmother, Uhura still held a special place in my heart as being one of my favourite members of the original crew. So imagine my absolute delight watching this week's episode and seeing the soul of Nichelle Nichols radiate through Celia Rose Gooding's performance as Futura Uhura. Say that three times fast. The body language, the smile, the tone, how did she do it? I mean, I wish we knew somebody with an interview show or something who could ask her how she made this magic happen. I guess we'll never know. But seriously, she is an amazing actor. And I would go as far as to say that out of all of the recastings of the original series crew, including the JJ Abrams movies, Celia Rose Gooding has given us the most perfect homage yet. So yeah, this episode was just the best thing ever. Now, does that make it the best episode of the season or the series? Absolutely not. That was orders of magnitude two weeks ago. But tomorrow's Enterprise is still the best thing ever. Peace and long life, guys, and I hope you all have a great week.

I think you are mistaken. The best thing ever was Shadow Weaver from She-Ra, who was my first TV crush, which probably says a lot about me. I don't know. She doesn't even have a face, but there's something about her. Okay. Not counting that, probably Clarissa from Clarissa Explains it all.

What are you, like 50? Uh, so I I gotta close. I gotta say this before I lose track of it. In our retrospective with callers, where we look back at this season, I would love people to plant some flags the way that Anthony just planted some flags on bests and favorites. Like, this is that's gonna be a lot of fun. John is still thinking because his first TV crush was maybe black and white. I'm sorry, I'll stop. Oh wow. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll stop.

Samantha from Be Witch is an admirable first TV crush, a hundred percent.

I mean for sure, for sure. I've most memorable, and it's a little a little late to be my first, but I mean, Jennifer Love Hewitt from Party of Five, like man. I'm trying to think when I was younger who my first crush would have been. I grew up with five sisters. So if I had a TV crush, you can bet your ass I never said out loud that I had a crush on a TV crush. I had five sisters, so still do. Like, not no had there, no past tense, but yeah.

Uh I one of them teased John a little too hard.

Yeah, I very much look forward to talking with Celia about. I mean, we we put off our interview with Celia to wait for this episode to be out because Celia wanted to talk about it so much, and I I absolutely am glad we did.

Um and I can't wait to send Anthony's call to Zoe Cell Dania as a throwing down of the gauntlet. Um, I for me that's not the kind of show we are. Um for me, it's very easy, and it was absolutely April O'Neal in the original animated Ninja Turtles series. Like I just that was exactly the right time, and I was like, why does I didn't understand that the pocket on her chest that said press meant like member of the press, right? I thought it was supposed to be the first time I got that toy, I was like, what is this? And my cousin had to explain to me, like uh, it actually means something else. So then I understood. Um, but yeah, I uh easy, easy call for me, April O'Neal from the original Ninja Turtles animated series.

Yeah. I don't know, man. I watched some weird stuff when I was a kid. So alright. We have one more caller to the case.

The angry demon fairy from Fantasia was was big in John's work.

Oh, there you go. That's a good pick. That's a solid pick. But I mean, seriously, like I'm I look back at what we watched as a kids. I'm like, why did my parents choose this for us to be like our regular thing we watch? We have one more call. Let's go ahead and hear from Lucy.

Hi, Lieutenant Lucy from London calling in on the season finale. Probably my third favourite of the finales, A Quality of Mercy takes top spot. Um, and I'd probably put uh season three at the bottom, although I love the up sequence, i.e., the pocket universe. Uh I thought in my minor gripes on this one were some of the timey whimey stuff had me confused, and I probably need to watch it again. Um, and I felt that there was maybe, if this was gonna have potentially been the finale to the whole series, uh, not enough of the whole ensemble, particularly Mabenga and Una. Um, that being said, I loved the uh Cela Rose Gooding was amazing. Costumes and makeup, as always, were impeccable, um, particularly though Uhura and Nurse Chapel um in the TOS era. Ethan Peck, too, actually, I felt was really capturing something of Lennon Nimoy in a way that we haven't quite seen yet in his TOS era um spot here. Um, I really enjoyed the parallels in this in this instance for Kirk and Pike in when they were identifying that this wasn't their Ahura. And I think Pike did cotton on actually very early on the bridge, but didn't have time to probe it at that moment. But I loved how he was kind of regarding what was going on a little bit with her and Scotty, and that that sequence between uh Pike and Aurora was really moving, and I think is something that we um we as lovers of Strange New Worlds were owed. Um, but yeah, a real uh honour to uh have watched those performances. So really enjoyed it.

Alright, two things I want to say I appreciate that they didn't just knock Scotty down and go, he's dead. Like they let you know he's gone. Like this is this is this is final. There's no coming, you don't wave a light over this and and he's fine. Like I appreciated that they went all the way with that. And then something else that Lucy said really stuck out to me, which is I think I need to watch this again. I am begging people to watch these episodes more than one time. Like we have watched TNG a hundred times. Some of us have been fortunate to watch DS9 multiple times. Like we watch TOS over and over and over again. And I think Star Trek absolutely benefits from that as a whole. And I think again, not to be whatever, but this day and age, it's about watching what's happening right now. You watch the next episode, then you wait, then you watch the next episode. And for example, if it's Game of Thrones, you never think about it again. It's just over now. I really hope that people give this uh show and these episodes the multiple watches that they deserve because you really do get more out of them the second time you watch, the third time you watch. And as a person who's had to watch them multiple times for four years straight to help make this show, I think that that is a great way to watch the show. I don't like I could hear the argument of like, well, if you don't love it after the first watch, is it worth going back? And I will say yes. Like I think that that is the art in general, but specifically TV that's made now, is begging you to watch it more than one time. And I get that it is hard to do that because the amount of time you have or the number of great shows that are on that you want to watch. Like I get it. It's hard to fit every show that I want to see into a week, especially with a whole real life happening. But I really I just implore you, if you're out there and you haven't watched any of these episodes more than once, go back, watch it again, give it another shot, or cling on to the things that you loved from the first time you watched it and see what else you get out of it.

I one of the things I loved about this episode is how layered the themes are and how meta you can take a lot of the commentary in it. And I think what you were talking about this episode is exactly kind of you know, uh lifting up. Like, don't keep looking to the next things. I mean, we we just spent a whole bit talking about season five, but like let's sit and savor with what we have right now. Stop thinking about what you wish you had and accept what you have in front of you at this moment. I mean, I love Marvel, but it's it certainly embraced like the modern storytelling, you know, fusion of marketing with storytelling. Of like we have to have people talking about the next thing as much as we're having them talk about this thing. Yeah. And there's a lot of fun to that, but like you gotta stop and just you know, smell the strange new world roses, the strange new roses.

Yeah, and you might come out of it going, yeah, I still don't like that episode. That's fine.

But give it a shot. I mean, this is something you know we will discuss off off screen, but like I'm sitting here like, I would like to wait almost a month to talk about this series to like clear uh the constant attention we've paid to it over the last 10 weeks, like give myself a little bit of a reset, rewatch the series with with you know minorly fresh eyes, and come back to do our to do our wrap-up, our our just us three wrap-up, because like yeah, man, it's it's it, you know, at least thank God, thank god this isn't a release all the episodes in one day kind of series. Thank god you imagine what a how weird it would be to to cover a show that does that. This is tough enough.

Because we're right, like out here, you know, I'm making clips of the interviews, and you know, everyone talks about the episode drops on Thursday, and people are talking about it, talking about, talking about it, and then Monday they release stills for the next episode, and immediately that's where the conversation is. And no one cares about last week's episode. I mean, that's not entirely true. Our Discord is is proof not, but like just on Twitter, you kind of you you see the shift of attention immediately go forward. It's interesting.

Yeah, and it's and to John's point, like, man, I want to finish lanterns. I want to watch the rest of Chainsmoker Cat. Like, I want to watch stuff that has nothing to do with this, and then come back to it and re-immerse myself. I think that's probably good practice.

I want to get through season two of The Americans. I'm finally watching that show and it freaking rules. So, yeah.

Uh my last note, no one picked up on this, no one mentioned this, so I was waiting, but uh's protocol course that she apparently did just before this episode starts. Uh, a couple thoughts. Ugh. In the future, they're still sending people off to boring ass seminars about protocols. Ugh. Starfleet, no thank you. Uh the second thought, I was like, so many TNG episodes begin with like the voiceover being like, Well, we just finished this exciting battle, or you know, they talk about this amazing episode that would have been an amazing episode, and then we get like the boring negotiation episode. And it's funny that Strange New Worlds is like the opposite. We're like, oh, I just got back from the boring seminar, but now let's get dive into the time travel antics.

Uh, and then I guess it's literally the structure of a TNG episode. Like, we're on our way back from a conference. Oh no, a time travel antics.

I guess sometimes they are, but there was a I remember a plenty of times we were like, I wish we could have watched the episode they just talked about.

There's a lot of times we're like, Man, had parallels been a two-parter and we got to Seaworf's Batland tournament?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I just it would be fun if Trek ever did an episode where yeah, it starts with the end of a battle, and then the episode is just repairing the ship after we're like no filling out paperwork.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, watching them file the resulting reports and like getting to see how the report filing actually works.

Thrilling television. I would eat that up. But I'm guessing the whole protocol thing was just there to help again help reinforce why Ahura is not telling anyone and not asking for help from other people about this.

Because she just went to school for this.

So yeah, there was a whole section on there, a whole speaker about how to time travel protocol.

Well, and we know, you know, when you leave a conference or when a Starfleet officer leaves a conference, whatever they just learned is their entire personality for at least the next week. Yep. Yep. So it totally tracks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But no. Good episode. Very good episode. Yeah. I uh I mean, it definitely makes me feel like why both both times I've watched this episode, I'm like, yep, getting a little choked up at the end here, even with being hit over the head with a message 17 times. It's like makes me want to look at a second screen so I don't catch all of this all at once, you know. I need to scroll. Yeah.

Well, and Abby mentioned the music, and we were talking about the music before we were started recording on how like it's it's real good. And again, like I I feel like they kind of skimmed over a lot of stuff in that hurry to squeeze a whole movie into an hour, but the music does a lot of work to get you there. Like, if if I didn't feel the script exactly was building up the next scene, the music got me into the next scene. Yeah, so they they're definitely using all their tools well.

Yes, they are. All right. Well, any last thoughts before we close out our season four coverage of Strange New Worlds. I mean, our main literally just hit me.

I'm getting a little missed.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll say uh don't go away because despite that read from John, our season four coverage is not over. Oh my gosh. Not even remotely. We got interviews, a plenty coming. There's a lot coming down the pike. And I will take this opportunity to say thank you again to the callers and the listeners. Like you guys have made this season in particular so much fun, and like you've put us in a spot where we didn't have falloff like every single week. We're like, we have a lot of calls, and I can't wait to see which ones we're able to get to. I'm very excited for John's game show version of the calls that haven't been heard. And like this is I think to me, this is this is our polyamateur watch party. Like, yeah, we don't all get to sit in the same room in front of the same TV and eat pizza together, but like we talk about this together every week, and that is that is incredibly important to me. It has helped me get through so much real life. So thank you to all the callers and listeners, and thank you to anyone who finds this in the future when you have watched Strange New Worlds five times and you go, I just want to talk more about it. Like, we're gonna be here for you. Don't worry about it. I'm I'm very grateful for that.

And if there's anyone you want to hear us talk to in an interview, you know, let us know. Let us know who you think we should reach out to. Tag them on socials so they know that they want to be here.

We're getting pretty good at reaching out to people. So yeah, can we?

We've got some exciting ones coming and some we're excited to reach out to, but you know, yeah, who who do you want to hear from? Absolutely.

Yeah, and keep your ears open for my call-in Chainsmoker Cat podcast. It'll be, you know, it's maybe still a few months out, but like just keep your ears open. I'm I'm kidding, I don't have the bandwidth for that. But you should watch Chainsmoker Cat. It's very weird.

And I'm excited to get into future seasons of Picard so I can come back and listen to some of Grayson's call. Yes. Uh that green shirt will be starting back up with Picard and DS9 and Voyager here in a month or so.

Yeah. Well, it's been a long night, it's been a long season, and the Open Pike Knight crew has to go um plan out what we're doing for a whole month next summer because we only have six more episodes of this show to cover. Man, it's gonna go fast next year when it goes. So be sure to clean up after yourselves. Be sure to tip your servers. You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here.