SNW S4E4 - “A Case of Chiaroscuro” with Thom Tran

[00:00:08] Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds podcast where your calls are the prime directive. I'm your host, John T. Boulds, here tonight to discuss Strange New Worlds Season 4, Episode 4, A Case of Chiaroscuro. Join us tonight as we look at both sides of what has shaped up to be a divisive episode. But we'll navigate the shades of grey and discuss this strange, noir world. Joining me tonight are my co-hosts, the man who absolutely is a collaborator.

[00:00:51] on this podcast, Jesse Bailey. Sometimes if you want to change something, you have to be on the inside of that thing. And that's why I'm inside of this podcast. And the man who understands that you have to stick with your core values when in a difficult situation behind enemy lines, host of green shirt and newbies struck through TNG, Cameron Harrison. I know 600 words for co-hosts and I'm worse than all of them. And of course, joining us tonight, our first guest,

[00:01:20] guest of the season, a returning guest ready to rock and roll his way through the resistance. Last time we had him on to talk about Mbenga and his dealings behind Klingon lines. And this time, well, what can we say? We love a theme. Please welcome Tom Tran back to Open Pike Night. Hey guys, am I the first guest of the season? Yes, you are. As far as our episode coverage, yeah. Oh, I am, I am honored and slightly concerned that nobody else is saying yes.

[00:01:47] I think, well, we focused so much on the writers and the directors that we, we didn't really reach out to a lot of guests as far as our radio coverage. Yeah. Well, we had Star Trek Las Vegas. It was a busy first couple of weeks. Yeah. I wanted, I was on tour. Like everybody's like, how come you're not at a STLV? I was like, cause I'm telling jokes so that I can go pay for more Star Trek collectibles that are on my, on my mantle at the moment.

[00:02:16] Time is a closed circle. You know, keep, keep early August in mind the next time you're scheduling a tour. Cause we'd love to put you on our panel as a ringer. We, we have a kind of a recurring theme there as well of bringing in a ringer. So, I mean, you're, you're perfectly welcome to sit in that fourth chair, Tom. Absolutely. Well, um, yeah, my touring schedule is not up to me these days. It's very much up to like whoever tells me they're going to pay me to go do a thing.

[00:02:44] Um, suffering from success, I guess we will pay off the comedy seller at the Rio to invite you on that weekend. There's no way that that's an expensive gig, right? Like it's gotta be something we could maybe actually buy. Maybe, maybe I'm kind of expensive. Oh, I meant just a stage at the Rio, but yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:03:09] Well, you can rent the stage for six, six bucks, a pack of Kit Kats, but, uh, Getting the Tom on there. That's where it gets priced out. So yeah. Thanks for being here with us today, man. We're here to discuss the check is in the mail. Yeah. Discuss what some people are saying is into our episode. And some people are saying is really not into our episode. And we have some thoughts about that, But first let's get into the mood and hear from our caller and patron, Sin Sarah.

[00:03:40] Day 404 of Klingon occupation. Or is it 4004? Hard to process time in a system where day and night look the same. Before the occupation, I followed a case that took me beyond this infrared black body spectra. Color spectrum so vibrant that can drive a man crazy. Though before that, I never knew the coat I'd been wearing my whole adult life was something called yellow. Stood brighter than the damn sun. Couldn't get back to Mataran fast enough.

[00:04:10] All because of a damn coat. Now I'm stuck here. Imprisoned on my own planet by a Klingon with a K-Less complex. Stuck at the bottom of a bottle. Trying to remember what green looks like before we all die. Hell, this bottle could be full of green ambrosia and I wouldn't even know it. Word on the street is the Resistance is making serious moves to bring down the shield imprisoning us. Imagine lots of folks would leave.

[00:04:36] I hope they find the grass that Terrans called greener on the other side. Probably stay myself. The Resistance won't be over after one little victory. So, help my fellow Matarans never fall. Maybe a shot at experiencing blues and reds. We better get to work on finding this detonator. Walk down the right back alley in Mataran. And you can find anything. Is that mostly Dick Tracy with a little bit of Sin City at the end?

[00:05:06] I'm pretty sure, yes. Yeah. Dick Tracy's sounding kind of rough these days, man. Well, and now that my throat has healed from Star Trek Las Vegas, I feel bad. I can't sound like Sincera anymore, man. But I guess we'll go with this. I do, like, right away, we should probably talk about that a little bit because, like, I am not super well-versed in noir, right?

[00:05:33] I know that, Cameron, this is a big genre for you. This is literally an episode you pitched on our website. Where do you land on this? Is it noir? Is it not noir? Noir. Yeah, I mean, I'm not, like, a student of noir. I couldn't tell you, like, the exact decades and which movies fall in and out and all that. But I've looked at the Wikipedias and it is complex. But I do just love the aesthetic. Whenever I watch something, like, it's a comfort blanket.

[00:06:03] So, yeah, I've been waiting for this. And what I loved about it is that it was kind of a mashup of a lot of 1930s and 40s stuff. You have, like, the spy thriller. You have some noir. You have some Metropolis. You have, like, the paranoid thriller, like the writers talked about. So I like that they kind of blended it all. It's not a detective story, right? This is not Sam Spade. But it is, like, that kind of east-west Berlin kind of spy thriller. You get a lot of more of them. See, I can't really pull an example.

[00:06:32] Third Man a little bit. But yeah. The episode was literally Casablanca. It was literally Casablanca. It was not a Casablanca. No, it's literally Casablanca. You have a bartender who is in the resistance. You have an occupation force. You have the piano thing going on. When, like, it's... What's up with this season, you guys? What is happening with this season? Are you saying you don't like Casablanca? Casablanca? No, I like Casablanca.

[00:07:01] I also like Star Trek. I would like Star Trek to be Star Trek. I don't want Star Trek to be Casablanca. Like, I... You don't think this is, like, the most Star Trek plot yet, though? No, this is, like, the... I was watching this episode going... I'm like, what is... First of all, listen. I don't know who watched Nicolas Cage in Spider Noir and went, I know, we got to do that this season.

[00:07:31] But... That would have come out after this, like, production-wise. But I smell what you're stepping in. It... I just... I feel like the explanation in the very beginning about, oh, the radiation from the Mataran solar system is turning everything black and white. And I'm like, that's so... Beautiful. Yep, I agree. I'm like, oh, come on. It's... What?

[00:08:01] Listen. I... Look, the first episode where the Enterprise is the reason humanity exists. Bold choice to start the season. Mm-hmm. I'll take it. The Griffin episode? You know what? It's hard for me to watch a Star Trek space episode where someone's not banging a ghost. So... Like a ghost episode. If, like, you're gonna have a ghost, someone's gotta be banging that ghost. Okay? Don't...

[00:08:31] I mean, it's fucking drawing... I mean, it's fucking drawing a little bit? Former banging? I don't... No! No, the rule is, if there's a ghost in Star Trek, someone is banging that ghost. You can't just do a ghost story. I like the episode. I really like the Griffin episode, but the whole time I'm going, no, it's fucking this ghost. And it's... My girlfriend didn't understand the reference, and I actually had to talk about that. But... And then... And then the last episode, the dude wears my car episode. I'm like... The hangover episode, please.

[00:09:01] We're gonna compare these to good movies. But also... But accurately, like, they lost to Shuttlecraft. But... Yes. I'm just like... What is happening with this season? There's no... Yes, they want to do episodics. And just like the original series was great with their episodics, but I'm like, what is happening? What... Like, I'm just...

[00:09:26] Everything's so far one direction or so far in the other direction. And... A lot of our callers tonight use the words rollercoaster. So... Rollercoaster is a great word for that. But also, this was just Casablanca. Tom, get ready for next week first. And then second of all, I... This is... I don't think this is new. Like, this is what Strange New Worlds does. It is a...

[00:09:54] Let's do a genre this week that you might not expect to be paired with Star Trek. Let's lean heavy into that genre. I mean, it's been two years since we had the musical episode. And that was... I mean, fairly. I think that one was also pretty divisive. But like... I don't know. It just... For me, it's like, this is not a new thing. This is not suddenly this season they just started... They decided, let's do different genres. It's like, they've been doing this for four years now.

[00:10:24] So it just kind of... I guess the word is it surprises me that people are surprised. I... It's not that. It's just... Each episode this season has been so... I feel like... And I get what you're saying. There was the musical episode. There was the magical episode. Like, the fairy book, fairy tale episode. Uh... But I feel like, in previous seasons, there's been more like... Oh shit, Romulans.

[00:10:53] Oh shit, Clint. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there was more Star Trek. Yeah. I... I think we're far enough into the season now that you can say, if you look at the first four episodes of all four seasons, these... These four episodes are definitely... Like... Less... It's not cohesive, but they are more all over the place than... The tonal differences are greater. Yeah. Between episodes. This for sure. And then it might be that. It might be the swing of the tone of each episode, which...

[00:11:21] It's fine if you want to do it like... You know, when TNG was doing 26 episodes a season, it's like, all right, four episodes of actual Star Trek stuff, and then we'll do a... Beverly Bangs a Ghost. Right. I don't know why that's... You're really... Well, we do actually have a caller who echoes us a lot. Let's hear from Kay Sarasara real quick. No jokey bullshit this week. That doesn't mean I'm here to shit on this episode. I enjoyed it.

[00:11:48] I enjoyed seeing Una and Mbenga drawing on their experiences in a perilous situation. I even enjoyed seeing future Dahar Mastercore. And La'an's justifiable concern slash paranoia had me a little on edge, and I presume that was the intended effect. That said, this ep didn't, to me, require a genre swing.

[00:12:12] To me, it didn't feel like noir as I was taught 30 years ago in college. Bernadette's costumes brought plenty of texture, but a Casablanca-like A-plot and even two clear, loving thefts of Casablanca do not noir make. I felt the ep was more akin to pre-NASA space fantasy, like Sky Captain. One final point.

[00:12:41] Several days ago, I rambled on Blue Sky about Trek being a place with plenty of room for different types of stories, different genres. Competency porn, as exemplified by many next-gen eps, is a genre. But when Season 4 is shaping up to be an oops-all-sweeps episode season, the impact of those genre-swing episodes is lessened because we're not getting the competency porn regular eps sprinkled in. Take care of yourselves, everyone.

[00:13:08] Season 4, I will say, is more concentrated, high-concept episodes. It's more Dude, Where's My Car in Space? Casablanca in Space. Event Horizon in Space. The episode everyone is waiting for is episode 6. It is going to be the competency porn episode, but even that one is blank in space.

[00:13:32] So, I mean, yeah, I mean, to Jesse's point, like, at this point, the showrunners, the writers have told us what kind of show they want to make, and this is the most purified season, I think, of that yet. And if you're on board with it, I think you can have a lot of fun. If not, it is a roller coaster. And to something Cam said earlier, is this not the most Star Trek plot so far this season? I think that it is. Yeah. Like, you have so much TOS in here.

[00:13:58] Like, there's even some shades, forgive the phrasing, of TNG. Like, a big thing that I took away from this is resistance is not futile, right? Like, to me, that's like almost a direct call to that whole Borg storyline. But this feels very TOS to me. You go to a planet, it's just like a specific part of Earth during a very specific time period.

[00:14:25] You have an alien stand in for a well-known force of baddies. And then you have our characters kind of pretend they belong there just long enough to solve one of these problems. I mean, you swap out Mbenga and Uhura and Una for Kirk and Spock, and you've got like half of TOS's run, right?

[00:14:49] But I mean, I was sure the first time I saw this, I was like, oh, people are going to love this. It has those shades of piece of the action. It has pieces of Errand of Mercy in it. Like, it has all these things and people are going to love it. Yeah. And it's like, the sticking points for some of the folks that I have seen, and this is not me telling people, you may not have sticking points, you have to love the thing. Oh, I'm just going to have sticking points. Don't worry.

[00:15:17] Well, it has surprised me some of the sticking points that people have pointed out. Because I'm like, I thought that was a strength of this episode. I thought that was a thing that Trekkies in general would just really love. For me, like, my biggest complaint is that when they show the map of the system, the star is called Matar Star. Like, my stars, right? No, it can just be Matar, because then all the other planets would be Matar 1, Matar 2.

[00:15:45] Which is the thing where I was like, how did nobody catch this? It drives me a little bit crazy. But like, beyond that, I loved it. It's like, yeah, the Mbenga Uhura bits. I mean, like, Mbenga fits perfectly in here. The perfect characters for the So-18. Yeah. And making the choice of the Klingons being this oppressive force is like, this is classic TOS. You go to a planet where the Klingons got there a little bit earlier than you. They've already implemented a system.

[00:16:12] And then you have to convince the people that there's a way to fight it or that it's maybe not the way to go. And it is interesting to be the person who's watching the Star Trek social media for our show, because it's like, that's where my whiplash is coming from, honestly. Like, the season, I'm like, yeah, this is consistently how Strange New Worlds is. But then you watch the reactions and you're like, the people I thought might hate this love it. And the people that I thought might love it hate it. It is. It's bizarre.

[00:16:42] I guess it's not black and white. I am enjoying each episode of like, okay, well, the last one, surely this next one will be as divisive as the last one was. And it seems like it's just piling on more and more. I think we can all confidently say next week we're going to have kind of the same conversation again as far as reactions to it go. Yeah, 100%.

[00:17:03] But, you know, I was thinking the most of Unification 1 and 2 during this episode as far as a undercover behind enemy lines, obviously for different impetus. You know, the doppelganger aspect wasn't there. But if you're going to go with competency porn for being behind enemy lines, I kind of feel like these guys do it a lot better than Picard did eating the soup really, really badly in Unification. I mean, not quite as good as DS9.

[00:17:33] That crew is amazing at time travel undercoverness. But, like, yeah, I thought this was really good. Yeah, I mean, I just keep going back to my review of the season, which is divisive. But, I mean, come on, guys. Like, fun to talk about, right? Like, the conversations emerging from these opposing points of view, I think, are, like, exactly the conversations you should have around Star Trek. Absolutely. And, John, I didn't really get a read. So, like, are you, yes, pro this episode? Mostly. Yeah.

[00:18:04] We're going to hear some more about La'an, but honestly, my biggest issues with this episode lay on the Enterprise. Which I think several people's do. But let's go ahead and hear from Platty first. See what he says. Actually, no. Let's hear from David Jones, who I believe was in this episode. Yeah. David's log. Yeah. This is my final adventure into the Star Trek universe under this current era.

[00:18:32] It has been an honor to put on a Starfleet uniform, to grace the sets of real Star Trek shows, getting to fulfill a childhood dream so long ago, back in 2022, where it all started. To start with the Klingons in Star Trek Strange New World Season 2 Under the Cloak of War. And then to finish in Star Trek Strange New World Season 4, a case of Chiaroscuro.

[00:19:01] Plus adding in being in the Terran Empire in Section 31 and the finale of Season 1 of Starfleet Academy. It's been an honor. It's, you know, I started off as a background actor back then in 2022. And lo and behold, I am now a principal actor in 2026. I never had the acting bug. I won't lie. Prior to working on Season 2 of Strange New Worlds. But Star Trek gave me the acting bug.

[00:19:31] And now I have an upcoming series coming for Amazon Prime. So life finds a way. Star Trek, I will miss you. It has been a great honor. And I hope you all enjoyed this episode. I enjoyed working on it so much to, you know, to finish where you started in the same place at the AR wall. It definitely had me very emotional.

[00:19:57] You know, that's where it all started for me on this amazing journey. Getting to meet everybody, all of you fans and podcasters. It's been a great honor. And I will miss it. Recording ended. Well, David, I can confidently say we will miss you in our Star Trek. And I think an important thing here for me, like I'm not going to say this is important for everyone.

[00:20:23] But important thing for me is David really, for me, crystallizes that this show is made by people. Like a lot of the discourse that I see is making very large assumptions about, oh, this was made for the following reason or the writers are this way. And it's like, well, I mean, you can hear straight from the writers if you just listen to Open Pike Night, first of all.

[00:20:48] But like the reason I like our series discussing things with the writers and the directors is the same reason. It's like these are real people. They have a job. They're given a certain amount of time to do that job and they execute. Right. Like I, I think it's very important for me, again, to remember that everything I watch is made by somebody doing a job and they are probably not half-assing it at this level. Right.

[00:21:16] So I'm not here to say, you know, what you see is what you get. Be grateful for it. I'm just saying try to remember the people behind the scenes and just think of your own work day where it's like, yeah, there's some, there's going to be restrictions on you. You can't do everything you wish you could do in your job. Just keep that in mind as you're watching. And David, I all, I've said it once. I'll say it again. Incredibly jealous, man. Just incredibly jealous of your journey.

[00:21:45] And it's very inspiring. Like to know that you came from a little Trekkie kid to a big grownup Federation man is wonderful. It was very cool. I was on Facebook and was just showing me some random Star Trek group posting a bunch of behind the scenes photos of this week's episode. And I was scrolling through and I was like, oh, hey, I know that guy. It's David. Awesome. So I haven't spotted him in the episode yet, but I know what his costume looks like.

[00:22:13] And if he was on the AR wall, it sounds like he was in the cafe somewhere. So keep your eyes peeled. Well, yeah, because they're in the cafe for like the whole episode, which is also a lot of strange to me, but it's kind of fun. It's like, okay, this is the place to hang out. And on this planet is the cafe. So sweet. Yeah, it's it is interesting. I see one of the main comments. I see a lot.

[00:22:41] And we're going to be talking about discourse as much as we are this episode. I think this week is a lot of people like, you know, they need to let Star Trek fans make Star Trek. I'm pretty sure they do. That's who's making it. I, you know, sometimes it's easy to attribute that to, well, you're just jealous that you're not the one making Star Trek. But also it's like, and then I see accusations like, oh, this they're just doing fan service. It's like, what are we supposed to be making TV shows for?

[00:23:09] If you're not making TV shows for fans of TV shows. I that argument confuses me sometimes like, like what is wrong with making something that you think people are going to like. And I can see that also being on the flip side of, okay, do you need to make something that more people will like with episodes like this? Because it is obviously it's a very divisive episode in what's turning out to be a divisive season.

[00:23:38] And every anime fan listening was like, this show doesn't have any fan service. What are you talking about? But I so I'm very interested to know, like. For those that didn't love this episode, Tom, maybe you can speak on their behalf. Listen, it's not that I didn't love the episode. I'm. I. Okay. I didn't love the episode.

[00:24:09] I just feel like, you know, no, it. And I, I was talking to a comic at a club that I work at where we're fellow Trekkies. And, you know, like I love the first episode. Like I thought it was a bold choice. And he was like, I don't like it. And he's, he's a hardcore Trek. He's like above and beyond me. And there is a lot of divisiveness in this season. And I just, I, and it is a roller coaster.

[00:24:38] I think it is a whiplash of like Jurassic Park. Uh, the house on, you know, at the end of the street or whatever. And then last week was dude, where's my car? I'm, I, I'm just, I don't know. Uh, I, I just felt like right off the bat. Did it, was it just me or is that opening scene of the enterprise and the shuttle?

[00:25:05] Was that, did that look like they were trying to make it bad sixties special effects? Like, does it, or was it just me? Like I was watching it going, okay, I get there doing a black and white thing. Why does it look like it looked like they tried to make it look like a sixties. And maybe it was just, I'm tired or whatever, but I was like the first shot. Or it looked like the shuttle shots.

[00:25:33] I will say the shuttle shots definitely like looked, I'm going to say less dynamic in their motion and there, in the way that the ship, like the, the actual shots of the shuttle from the outside. I will give that to you. I, I definitely bumped on something there where it's like, okay, it looks, is it just the fact that it's black and white or are they doing something else different with it? And like going through the atmosphere even almost felt like, you know, holding a shuttle on a stick while putting fake clouds going in front of it.

[00:26:03] Yes. A little bit. And I was like, and yeah, it was, but like right off the bat, I'm like, so what are they doing? Are they, is it, are they, you know, throwing back to the sixties, like trying to play this as a noir thing as it would have been seen by futurists at the time. The shuttlecraft looks like it's out of a string. Like just, so right off the bat, I'm like, wait, what is this? Is this in their, in their heads?

[00:26:31] And then the explanation about the, the entire system. I was like, that's very contrived to make this. And I think that's, I think that's the thing that I'm bumping up against the whole, let's make a noir episode and give it some bullshit reason why it's in black and white. Like this. Oh yeah. The, the solar rays from the, the, the Matar solar system changed how we see black and white.

[00:26:58] I'm like, is that a thing that happens? Or is it the thing you said happens because you wanted to do a black and white episode? Like, and I think that's right off the bat. I just went. What is this? A little column A, a little column B, a little, yeah, a little bit of both. Are you sure you weren't watching on, uh, did you have your motion smoothing on your TV? I don't know. I'm watching these shots right now. I think they look freaking gorgeous. The shuttle looks amazing. I don't know. I don't know. It was also, okay.

[00:27:28] In my defense, it was, we watched it late last night and I had just gone to an all you can eat cream barbecue and ingested six pounds of meat and four lobster tails. Meat goggles on. All right. I did. I mean, I like my girlfriend just, uh, just learned the term meat sweats because that's what was. So I was, I was a little hot of it. Not going to lie. Maybe I'll rewatch you go. Oh no, this is great.

[00:27:55] This is not without six pounds of undigested carne inside me. And if you are watching on paramount plus, it's certainly possible that it hadn't finished buffering yet. Um, but to the point about kind of the, the conceit, right? The setup. I have seen both sides of this because like, there are people that are asking, for example, with the Griffin episode, like, I just wanted an explanation.

[00:28:22] And, and Cam is over here being like, no, you're not supposed to like, that's part of the point. And then in this one, they give this quick little, you know, one, two line of dialogue about why this is. And people are like, we didn't need the explanation. Just do a black and white episode if you want to. And I'm like, I, I do feel for the folks making it where it's like, you literally are damned if you do and damned if you don't like to figure out which things people want one or two lines of dialogue about must be very difficult.

[00:28:51] I, I, I definitely watch this through the lens of, Hey, that's like the exact idea that Cam put in his like pitch article for this. I think it's really cool that it happens to show up here. And that is one of the things that to me feels very TNG, very TOS, like a one line explanation for a very big thing. And then the rest of the episode is about something else. So I, you know, regardless of where folks land on it, I think I ended up on the, this

[00:29:21] is fine, but I also wouldn't have minded if they didn't have that. Like if it was just, here's a black and white episode, I'd have been like, Oh, okay. Cause it's like shades of moral gray and right and wrong, black and white. Like I can do that. And they have that big discussion about that at the end. So I, I think it would have worked for me either way. Um, but we have a lot of calls to get to tonight. So let's hear from our next one. All right. Here is starship. Hello. Open pike night.

[00:29:49] So I really enjoyed this episode. I loved seeing Una take center stage. It's been a very long time since she's done that and whatever shortcomings the writing had, Rebecca's performance was so strong that she easily carried it. The black and white looked gorgeous. And I love that. It wasn't just a scene, black and white. The characters were seeing black and white. That was a little fun sci-fi bit.

[00:30:15] Um, the, this soft focus glow, the beautiful metropolis art deco, uh, production design. Gorgeous. I will say more than anything, the episode evoked Casablanca, which is in fact not a noir movie, but that's okay. It was still enjoyable. Um, the stuff with Lon on the ship was interesting too. Um, the, I felt, this is, this was my train of thought.

[00:30:42] So she confides in Spock, which causes him not to trust her, which further makes her not trust herself. But then she finds out she's right, but you can't tell Spock that because she's keeping chapel secret. So Spock's going to continue to doubt her, which further isolates her. So my girl is going through it right now. And I feel so bad for her. Um, I, I, I hope I know things are going to get worse for her before they get better, but I do hope they get better soon.

[00:31:11] Live long and prosper guys. I totally did not track that. She's not going to be able to rub this on Spock's face, but you're absolutely right. Oh my God. Poor Laon. That's, that's the best part of a relationship when you get to say you were right. Well, and I, I'm interested because I, I was sort of with John here where I was like the stuff on the ship didn't hit me quite so hard, but like hearing starship talk about

[00:31:39] it, I think it, it did, it did do more work than I thought it did on my first watch. Um, I think for me on the first watch, I was just very confused. Like I'm, I'm not, I'm like, how many layers are there in this cake? And like, who, who is responsible for what? And like, yes, thank you for baby in the cake. I don't, well, and like, am I following your metaphor? Right. Just a hundred percent. And thank you for letting, you know, Scotty and Erica talk about sandwiches.

[00:32:08] Cause like that was where I was like, all right, okay. Sandwiches. I understand. Um, but it's possible that like, even the sandwich here is a metaphor. You got layers. There's different ingredients. Who's the bread in all of this? Um, I will say I really liked the stuff with Pike on the ship because it's brief. It's, it's almost not there, but he reads so much as like a, like almost a narrator for this episode.

[00:32:38] Like Starfleet can't be here. Here's, you know, what we need to do. And like La'an this, that, and the other thing, like he's very rigid in frame the whole time. And that to me feels like a good, a use of the genre conceit, like put them in the frame. Don't have them do too much movement. Just like center on him, you know, use that to ground yourself. But John, I know the ship is, is where you may have had some of your misgivings. Talk, talk about that. Uh, I will. There's a few more colors I want to get to before I talk too much.

[00:33:06] I do want to say, yes, there's Una as the main character of this episode, I think was absolutely the correct choice. And it wasn't, I mean, when's the last time we had a fully, like, this is a Una episode episode. Yeah. She's there. She's there in the back. She's there supporting a lot, which is what her role is as, as the second in command is, is to support the story. But it was really fun to see her get the whole thing.

[00:33:32] I like that, that it, I just wanted it to be either that whole episode of Una story and flesh that out more or twice as long an episode. If we're going to tell both stories, I think both of these stories could have been a full episode length. And I think this episode suffers a little bit because they tried to put both stories in one. I think we're going to share a lot of those same thoughts and agree. I kind of want to hear some of the other callers first, but I do also want to agree on, on Una.

[00:34:01] Cause I think that can kind of get a little lost and everything else happening in this episode, but like historically she's kind of not my most compelling character for me. And so it's fun to get to see her come forward. And cause there is a lot going on with her. She, right. Like because she broke this like cardinal rule of Starfleet, she had to live her life as a boy scout, girl scout. And here she has like learning. She can kind of maybe start breaking those rules and questioning some other Starfleet stuff.

[00:34:28] And I, I'm wondering if this is setting up tracks for her eventual future at the end of season five. Yeah. Uh, always more Una Chin Riley. Always, always. Fair. Absolutely. Like she, she does such a great job as number one. And like you said, like her role is to be Pike's support, but she does it so much that yeah. When there is an Una centric episode, like, yes, absolutely. And you know what?

[00:34:57] Technically we got two of her. One of them was just dead in a, in a pot. So, you know, always more Una Chin Riley. All right. Let's hear from Trev. Hey, it's Trev beaming in from the Fairlighter Franchise podcast. And you know, I was really looking forward to a film noir episode, but I've said in the past that sometimes Strange New Worlds lets its gimmick first focus get in the way of the Star Trek of it all. And unfortunately, I think this week was a prime example of that. First off, if you want to make a black and white episode, just make a black and white episode.

[00:35:26] The in-universe explanation added nothing of substance to this story. Other modern shows and movies have used black and white without feeling the need to explain it. I also didn't like the away team's lack of scientific or intellectual curiosity about this planet resembling 30s, 40s era Earth. Yes, Trek has done stuff like this before, but usually the crews seem confused and inquisitive about this. And we learn why it's this way. Even more glaring though, was their lack of curiosity or concern about Una having an exact doppelganger on this planet.

[00:35:53] I assume this would become the central mystery of the episode, but nope, they seem fairly nonchalant about it. Wouldn't there be a concern that the Klingons have somehow got hold of Una's DNA and cloned her? Wouldn't they want to get that body back to the ship for autopsy? Their it-is-what-it-is response was about the most un-Star Trek-like behavior I could imagine from these characters. I know the argument here will be accept the genre tropes or just turn your brain off and have fun, and sometimes I can do that. But I think Trek as a franchise is rightfully held to higher standards in some regards, and

[00:36:21] while everyone's bar for this is different, for me, my breaking point is when your Starfleet characters have to act dumb or bad at their jobs for the story to work. This wasn't season-ruining bad for me by any means. I loved the visuals and all the character stuff with Mbenga was fantastic, but the script just needed a few more logic passes for me to raise this one above the meh level I came down on. So it's fascinating because your reactions like span the gamut of my reactions, Trev, from like 100% degree, and I'll get to that part later, to I see where you're coming from, but I didn't bump on it, to I'm not sure where this is coming from.

[00:36:50] And I'll start with that one because, I don't know, I looked at the wide shots of this planet and did not see 1930s Earth, like at all. I saw this cool fusion of Metropolis in the 30s, and it looked like an alien civilization around mid-industrial period that then got invaded by warp-capable Klingons. And I don't know. It read as an alien planet to me. I was there for it personally. Definitely. As far as the... Sorry, go ahead. Yeah.

[00:37:17] No, I was going to say, in reference to Una having an exact duplicate, I have two words. Yes. Jeffrey Combs. That's all I'm going to say. That's all I'm going to say. He should have played Una in this episode. Oh, no. Oh, no. I was a little disappointed. He could. I mean, that's a funny one because on one hand... Well, like I said last week, I feel like... And this isn't... I don't want to come across like I'm attacking each other.

[00:37:46] This is the sort of weird in-the-weeds kind of script discussions I love. Why do audiences bump on one thing but not another and everything? Last week, I pointed out that Erica wakes up and one of her first lines is, why am I not hungover? Why am I not drunk? And to me, that was the writers telling the character to say this so the audience would go, oh, why is she not drunk? This is a question I have to follow. And in that episode, it didn't really get resolved for me for... It didn't get resolved.

[00:38:16] That was one of those loose threads. Here, when Mbenga of all characters says, no, this happens. I'm not worried about it. Eyes and audience member goes, okay, not worried about moving on. Let's enjoy the story as presented. To me, that works for me. But also, I'm probably coming off as a little bit of a hypocrite because if you listen to Green Shirt, you know that many times I have been like, why are they bringing that on board? Clearly, it could be a bomb or a shapeshifter or any of these other number of things that happen in Star Trek.

[00:38:43] And it's always Rob or Marcy who go like, why are you assuming they're bad at their jobs, okay, I'm like, clearly, when O'Brien says, I beamed down on board, it's fine. I believe him that it's fine. And so it is just funny how people have different thresholds for these sorts of things. Well, and my pushback is like, I don't know that I saw anybody being bad at their job in this episode. Like, if their job is to get extracted, they did that.

[00:39:10] If their job is to decide to do an undercover mission and help the people, even though that might be technically against the rules, they did that. Like, Mbenga is absolutely in his element here of being behind enemy lines. He's teaching Uhura how to do that, which is a skill she's going to need. She's using her vast linguistic knowledge to eavesdrop on this Klingon conversation.

[00:39:34] And then, like, the Noir aspect of it, or the visual aspect of it does come into play, and Kor uses it against Uhura. He says, what color are the trees in your home village? And she kind of trips up there. So, like, that piece ends up mattering in the story. But does it matter because she recovers very quickly? Very quickly. And he should have been like, oh, I specifically asked this question to find out if you're from this planet. Like, he should have followed up on that. But my point being, like, it comes up.

[00:40:03] Like, it's real for the characters, and it is part of the plot, right? But it doesn't affect the plot. I mean, you have a moment. I had a moment, at least, where I was like, Ohura is totally cooked. Like, he got her. And then, you know, having learned from Mbenga, it's like, okay, now she's getting into this headspace, which she's not used to being in. To Trev's point, though, like, we are how many years away from the Klingons creating a

[00:40:32] human-Klingon hybrid with the Klingon guts and the human skin? I don't know what Ash Tyler was, but that should be fresh in mind. Like, I get his point. Like, you are in a universe where there are shapeshifters and clones and all these things. In real life, we hear doppelganger, and we go, oh, a lookalike. Yeah, apparently I have three doppelgangers in Alaska. I don't understand, but people are sure they've met me at, like, a construction convention. I'm like, nope, not me. Are you sure? Pretty sure. Pretty sure. Yeah.

[00:40:58] But yes, in this universe, I could see that being a bump. Here's my problem with doppelgangers. I didn't get recognized standing next to a poster of me saying that I was performing at a comedy club. So what you're saying is it's fluid. I don't want to believe in doppelgangers. This is the part that I bumped up against with Mbenga being there.

[00:41:25] On a planet surrounded by Klingons, he's literally the butcher of Jagal. Why didn't he just go ham? He's like, oh, no, we got to get out of here? Fine. Let me Mbenga this bitch up. Yeah. He didn't have his PCP on him. I'm glad you asked that, Tom, because I don't feel like they ever... really established the threat to our crew on the planet. And I think that is the one part of the story that there's no ticking clock.

[00:41:55] There's no... I don't feel like the stakes didn't get ratcheted up enough for me that... It's like, okay, there is obviously a ticking clock of the shield. Yeah. But it just never really felt like anybody was that scared of that actually happening. And even with the Uhura interrogation, it wasn't a there are four lights moment. It's like, okay, we found your ID. You're good to go. Yeah. Which obviously is a tactic that interrogators and spy masters would use.

[00:42:24] But I don't know. I just... I feel like there was a tiny bit of the... Number one, Mbenga never felt like they actually were feeling the stress. Mbenga was just being like, hey, you don't have to do this. Right. But I never... Like, if I had seen him sweat at least once, I think I would have taken it a lot more seriously. Okay. So this is where we find out that John is okay with fascism as long as it's happening to other people. No, I just... I'm an American, of course.

[00:42:54] Hey, guess what, John? Yeah, what? So my... For me, there is... You do have to work into this is Una's story. Because I think Tom is right. Like, this is... And I have said this all season long. The show's about Mbenga. And you put him on a planet with Klingons and you have him sneaking around. I'm like, all right, let's see the Mbenga of this whole thing.

[00:43:20] But so Tom, what I thought you were going to say is why does nobody recognize him? And I was going to say the answer is because he's the Butcher of Jagal, nobody has left for that. Nobody's left for that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What's he look like? I don't know. I don't know. Nobody's left to tell us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And having the tension be like they were told to leave as soon as they could, you know, is like I could argue or I could agree with you that it's like maybe that's not like the

[00:43:49] highest stakes thing. But I think the stakes in this episode are meant to be deeply personal for Una. Like even in that last time on package, we get, you know, I had a chance to help and I didn't. So this is for her. That's what makes this an Una episode is it's her grappling with what she did in the past. Although it's arguable that that was more her parents than her and how she's going to act now that she feels she maybe has a second chance to maybe do the right thing instead of the easy

[00:44:19] thing, which I think ends up being a big theme of the whole episode is like, yeah, there are ways to fly under the radar in this kind of situation. Sometimes that's what you need to do, but sometimes it's the opposite. So, yeah. All right. Let's hear from another caller. Here is Michelle. Hey, open pike night. This was an interesting episode. I liked the noir elements and I'm glad they explained the black and white piece as well. I thought that was kind of cool and how it tied in at the end.

[00:44:49] I, I'm so glad we finally got a solid Una episode. Rebecca Romijn was great. I loved all the undercover parts. Una and Mbenga. Those scenes were phenomenal. Just Mbenga's wisdom and Uhura learning and seeing how strong she is. It was, it was great. I am not so sure about what was going on on the Enterprise, but I appreciate what Chapel was trying to do.

[00:45:17] And that's kind of my crusher connection because we know that Beverly Crusher would definitely go into enemy territory to help people. And also regarding some of the quotes of the episode kind of also had a crusher connection where Mbenga talks about, um, now you understand the anguish of healers. No matter how many you save, it's never enough. And Una at the end saying, you know, living a hidden life to protect others. Picard season three and the cryogenic chamber. Also Picard season three.

[00:45:47] Cameron, I can't wait till you see that one, but I really liked a lot of the elements here. Um, I do wish we had more Pike. I feel like we're four episodes in, but we haven't really focused too much on Pike this season. So I hope we get more soon, but can't wait to hear your thoughts on this until next time. Live long and prosper. I think the problem is that Anson Mount looks too devastatingly good in black and white. And they were like, this is going to be, we can't make it a new episode if he's even around.

[00:46:15] So, um, but I, I do, I think for me, what, what finally landed the, the shipboard portions of this is when I realized, oh, it is the same story as on the planet, right? This is a break the rules because sometimes the rules are keeping you from doing the right thing. And then I was like, oh, okay. Like, I see how this ties in. I still am not a hundred percent on like all the pieces of that weird puzzle.

[00:46:45] Like I'm, I can't like Scotty and Erica did something that Pike did approve, but chapel did something. He didn't. I'm not again. I'm just, I'm not there yet. I'm going to have to watch it again. And that's where my, my biggest issue is, is the story on the ship ultimately is about long starting to doubt. Herself while trying to solve a mystery. The solution to the mystery is just, I'm like, who would have objected to this? Right.

[00:47:14] Like every Star Trek character has done this. Yeah. This is a nine hundred and sixty episodes of Star Trek. Yeah. We've seen probably a class in the academy about this. Like we've seen this, this, what, what chapel did dozens of times as being like, we, uh, we did the right thing. And, you know, and it was a little strange for it to just be like, I don't want to ruin careers. Yeah. Like I, that might be one of the first times I've heard that is the reason for doing something like that chapel.

[00:47:42] But I, I feel like, like I did. I liked, I liked the Scottie and Ortega scene, but I'm like, man, this is supposed to be about La'on really doubting herself and trying to prove herself to herself a little bit. Um, makes for a fun punchline at the end and the funds and the scene with Pike. But, uh, again, I think it could have been a whole episode. I think it could have been a self paranoia episode. I mean, it would have to be a very different episode. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, like, because yeah.

[00:48:12] Yeah. I mean, I, I, every individual scene I like, every interaction I enjoyed, uh, Scottie and, and Ortega's. I love a Shaw scene. I love how she manipulates a Shaw. That's a lot of fun. But yeah, overall at first I'm like, okay, paranoid thriller. What is she scared of? She thinks there's, she thinks something's going on, but she doesn't know what we have. There's no stakes to this investigation at all because we have no idea what it could be. Like, she doesn't even posit.

[00:48:39] Like, what if this is a Klingon yada yada and it's going to detonate the ship or something? So no stakes. And then as you say, the resolution, like, I like, I like the performance when chapel kind of reveals, like, did you try this? Because guess what? It was me. Uh, I mean, it's a, it's a great little scene, but yeah, I mean, just zero like punch to it because you're like, oh yeah, no, no, no, no one's going to care. Chapel. It's fine. Yeah. Uh, it needed to either be something bigger, which I don't know what it would be.

[00:49:05] And it would probably make the audience now question chapel as a character or at least something personal where we'd have an emotional connection. But her just being like some character, you, the audience has never met or heard of did yada yada. I don't care. The captain Crandall of strange new world. And I don't know why they didn't make it more of the detective. I mean, I know they went paranoid thriller because of what on is going through, but like you have a security log voiceover mechanism right there. You have the law.

[00:49:32] So you could have her speak maker, the Sam Spade character maker doing like a detective investigation. And I don't know. I felt that was have the ship have an error where there's a solo trumpets like mournfully playing the whole time. So anytime she records a log, that's playing in the background. Like, yeah. Trying to figure that out. I don't know. Yeah. Put the cape and cow on her. Give us Batman and just have her like hanging people upside down.

[00:49:58] And I think, I think the stakes that she had initially stated were like, I think there's a mole. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, is it a like a mole? Like you would notice that person walking around like Tyler. There you are. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just say, I'm grateful Ash Tyler is not in this show. That's hurtful.

[00:50:26] The thing I had, I had a problem with Leanne's characterization in this episode. And I know that they were going for the whole, like, she's doubting herself. It's, it's, it's going back to what happened with when she got the, the clean or the, the Vulcan jeans and that push her towards kind of the Romulan side of the whole thing. Like the, the scene with the, the, the new Vulcan. What's her name?

[00:50:56] Asha. Asha. Asha. Yeah. Cam, I know you said you liked that scene, but as a non-commissioned officer, as a former, like mid-level, almost senior. Senior NCO. If, if the security officer, she's the head security officer. If she'd gone up to an ensign and be like, hey, do this thing. And that ensign was like, no, I'm doing something else. I would have been like, you know what you can do? Fucking pushups.

[00:51:23] Do them right now until you decide to get your shit together and do the thing I just told you to do because I'm the head security officer. And I get that she's kind of doubting herself, but that whole, like, let me play to her ego. And then let me play to the idea that she's going to be tricked into this, this thing of like, oh yeah, maybe there's somebody else. No, no. You're the head security officer. You tell an ensign to do something. They fucking do it. Period. Period.

[00:51:48] Like that, like, and that's the army in me going, no, no, this, that she would have been doing pushups through the bridge of the enterprise. Just. I, I have no army in me. Thank you, Tom. For, I was like, just give her an order launch. Be like. Yes. You see the, like, I, let's try this again. Let me show you. Let me show you my sleeve. Yeah, exactly. I was pointing at pets. I'm like, you don't have pets. Wrong. Yeah. But yeah.

[00:52:16] And I, I see, I think the scene with her and Spock, like watching it again, six pounds of meat in my stomach last night. So I don't know if I was just kind of like, but it was, I felt like there, and I didn't know where they're leading their relationship into oblivion because she doesn't exist. Like, and you know, um, and I see them setting up the, the, the eventual disintegration of whatever. Yes.

[00:52:45] Maybe romance they have that, you know, and maybe it's forgivable because he's a Vulcan. And I was looking through this as the lens of like a human man involved with a human woman in a relationship. But if you were to say your, your girlfriend or your wife or your partner or whoever, no, I think you're, I think you're just reading this wrong. She would have slapped the shit out of him again as the head security officer.

[00:53:11] She would have like, uh, next time we dance together, I'm going to need you in the balls. Like that's. And she's the one person. Well, maybe outside of Una on the ship who could slap Spock and not hurt her hand doing it. Like, yeah, she, she would very much. I could do this all day. Like, but I mean, the thing about that too, is like, I almost read it as like, oh, Spock is either in on this and is trying to keep her from having to explain it to someone.

[00:53:40] Or like, he's, you know, he's trying to make her life easier, but I don't think that's the case. Like, I think he was actually just saying like, you are trying too hard. Let it go. Which coming from Spock is a little, I would imagine incredibly disheartening, but it does make me wonder, like, does that same chain of command situation apply there, Tom? Cause like this guy is, is the science officer.

[00:54:06] I guess we don't know where science is as far as, uh, man, I think. But it is. Yeah. So like, wouldn't that be above security officer or he's a loop? Wait, he's a Lieutenant though. Right. Well, I guess Lon has taken. Yeah. They're, they're kind of both. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it doesn't matter what division they're in. It's a, it's a rank thing. Yeah. I can look this up. They're the same. I guess, I guess it's him being more, I mean, I, is it supposed to like be the first example

[00:54:35] we've seen of him embracing logic more than his relationship? Because that's what we last heard from him before we saw him drunk for an episode. It could be. And it's, if it is, it's not necessarily explained enough. I think like, because if that's the case that fits with his character arc, but there was no like, yeah. Maybe not with your girlfriend first. Let's be real. It's a situation ship. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So they're both.

[00:55:04] I like how he's like, you know, maybe it's this or that. And she's like, no, tell me what you think. He's like, I think it's nothing. I like that moment. As the science officer, the science officer, if the security officer came to you and said, Hey, something seems off with this isolinear chip. Like, wouldn't he go, all right, well, it's like, maybe, maybe we should check this out. Like not the, like, I think I rubbed up against that a little too.

[00:55:33] Like I thought a lot logically he should go, Oh, you're concerned of this thing about this thing. Like he seemed very quick to dismiss it as just that. You're right. You're right. Like not even just the fact that they're in a situation ship, but like he's the science officer, something sciencey doesn't seem right to the security officer. Maybe you go, all right, well, we should look into this. Yeah.

[00:56:02] At the very least be like, did you ask Ortega since Scotty? Cause last time they messed with the isolinear chip and could have solved some problems early. Was this before or after she told him that she had been seeing chapel for, for like after it was after. So he already knew. That's one of the first conversations they have, I think. Yeah. Okay. So maybe he was like, maybe stop talking to this girl who broke my heart. If you keep talking to her, she will sing a song about how you are no longer friends. Boom.

[00:56:32] Boom. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Newman. Newman, the space hippie movies for days, a case of chiaroscuro. Lots to love in this episode, especially on a rewatch adored the costumes. The cinematography was particularly impressive and certain moments were downright inspired. I love the sort of metropolis aesthetic we're getting for the cityscapes. I really loved Amore Barnes as commander core. His performance was juicy.

[00:57:01] His use of diction was so on point. The chemistry between Mbenga and Uhura at the bar when he's teaching her how to be a spy. Babs is one of those actors that just makes everyone in a scene with him look and sound so much better. It's like a special talent. Some actors have. Some things I wish they'd done differently. The national anthem Casablanca moment. I wish that the inhabitants of this alien society had words and were singing those words

[00:57:30] to drown out the Klingon singing. It just, I think would have had more punch. Chappell's deception makes no sense to me because it took her a lot of work and effort to do all of this to hide the fact that colleagues broke regulations to help people. Captain Pike does that before having breakfast every day. So that was a big bump for me. I just wish it had been handled differently. And I ultimately wish that we had had color and normal cinematography on the Enterprise so

[00:57:56] that the black and white noir aesthetic was a planetary located situation. Newman the Space Hippie out. I kind of agree with all of that. I mean, I've mixed feelings about the Enterprise black and white and I might talk about that later. But otherwise, yeah, I mean. I think that that would have worked because it's like they have shields like number one thing for shields is different kinds of radiation.

[00:58:24] Like it was absolutely a visual choice, right? It wasn't going to tell the paranoid thriller. They're going to want to keep it black and white. But I think they could have just darkened it. Like it didn't. And I'm not a complaint that I have, but I think it would have worked like, yeah, you know, just pull make the contrast more intense. But then are the interior shots on the planet also in color or since it's all under cloud cover anyway? Is it radiation or light waves? There's different kind of clouds camera. Yeah.

[00:58:55] But I do. Yeah. We do have to talk about core. Yes. Because like. Holy cow. Dude. I was a very like I put my hands up. I was watching this alone in my room at night and put my hands up and went, it's core. I didn't recognize those core. I was just like, this is an amazing actor who's chewing the scenery. Yeah. Absolutely how he should be core. Yeah. Well, and that was the thing is like, it is so consistent with other depictions of core

[00:59:23] that we've seen while adding so much to the character. And like we talked about some of the chemistry between Mbenga and Uhura when he's teaching her to be a spy. Let's talk about the chemistry between core and Una because last scene, I was like, he's about to go over this table right now. This is going to become an entirely different kind of episode that Cam has been wanting for a long time. Yeah. He, he, I mean, embrace the role.

[00:59:53] I would love if hopefully we can get him on to talk about it. It'd be, it'd be fun to have him as a guest, but just like, man, did you just, just say, screw it. I'm going to fully take over. It was John Kolakos who played, uh, and like paid him all the due respect he could for that character. Cause he is fantastic. Well, and it's great when you have a character like this, who can deliver the shit out of exposition. Cause like all the scenes you talked about Jesse, of course, amazing, but like you don't even see him on screen.

[01:00:23] It's just kind of a voiceover when they're introducing the mind scanner. And he's like the mind scanner, it can see what you're thinking. So do not lie. And I'm like, that's how you deliver exposition. A hundred percent. And it turns a thing that is very dumb into a thing that you're like, okay, like this is a problem. This can be a problem for Uhura here. Like this is the one scene where you're like, oh, people are in danger. Like, yeah, to John's point. Yeah.

[01:00:48] And until now, like if anybody had the unblinking Klingon game cornered, it was Robert O'Reilly, but like there's some serious unblinking Klingon energy in this episode coming out of Demore Barnes. And like, I mean, the guy is intimidating. Like usually the Klingons are intimidating because they're huge and they're yelling at you and you can see weapons on their person.

[01:01:13] But in this, it's just like, he's intimidating because he is committed to what he is doing. And, and yeah, the use of diction, I have to agree. Very impressive. Yeah. That last scene with core and Una, um, that made me feel things that I didn't like feeling like, like when they cast Marissa Tomei as a, as aunt may in Spider-Man, I was like, I don't

[01:01:40] like this, I don't like this the way that you feel about aunt may. Oh, I a hundred percent liked how I felt about that. Well, it's aunt may. I know. That scene where he was like, he like, he bit his lip at the end. I was like, is this a category on porn hub? Because I'm going to have to check. Like this is, I don't like this. Probably AO3. But yeah, but, uh, yeah, that the chemistry in that scene was like fantastic.

[01:02:08] And I, it was what I liked about those two was like every scene they were together. I was kind of like, what does he know? Like how much is he, is he playing her? Is she playing him? And that bit where, where, uh, she tells him, oh yeah, she's my, you know, or where is my, that's why I hired her. She's, I was like, okay, who is getting played here? But like, I, and that was great. I'm not sure I know who at this point. Yeah.

[01:02:37] And that was like great acting on their park is I'm like the whole time I'm going, wait, who is outwitting who here? Um, but yeah. And then, uh, the tingly farts parts. And I was like, I don't like this. I'm going to go get thousands of pages of fanfic have been. Immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Please go put those pages in the fanfic channel on our discord. No particular reason. All right.

[01:03:06] Let's hear from Melanie. Hi guys. This is Melanie back home in Germany after a great week in Las Vegas and at STLV. I didn't manage to call in the last few weeks and also didn't hear the writers and directors interviews yet. A shame on me. I know because they're so creative and informative. So the film no episode. I watched it like three times now. And I believe that there's a lot of story missing. I do love that Una gets an episode. I think Rebecca, Babs and Celia form a great away team.

[01:03:36] But I do miss Pike. I just need my weekly dose of a new Pike material. Really? Is that so hard? Anyway. I liked the episode. Love the black and white style. So it took me a bit to get used to it. As I said, I guess it could have been better if it had been longer. My favorite moment was Una kicking ass and Joseph telling Yota about his alias and speaking about his first posting. Okay. About season four. I do like it. It is really like a rollercoaster ride through genres and emotions.

[01:04:05] But I really, really hope we have more Pike. And the way he handles Laan, I'm not so sure about it. He is the best captain. I hope he knows that and what it entails. I do worry a little where the season will take us. I mean, out of four episodes, two already had Kirk in them. The thing is, I like Kirk, but I want more Pike. I just love Pike. So let's stay positive and hope for the best. Live long and prosper. Super. Incredibly on brand call from Melanie as always. And here's a small thing.

[01:04:33] I love the way that our non-American callers all say genre. Like things get so flattened in American English. Like I'm kind of surprised we don't say genre, but like I do. I hear you. And I, I kind of am going back to this clip I saw of Anson Mount where he says, I am not the star of this show. The enterprise is the star of this show.

[01:05:01] And first of all, cool sentiment from the guy who's absolutely at the top of the call sheet. Right? Like I like the humility there. And I think it is kind of emblematic of Pike's leadership style, which is much more lead by example and that sort of a thing. I am, I'm kind of wondering, like, do you guys think that the genre of this week flattened some of the characters?

[01:05:25] Like because they needed to be this kind of character in, in a noir episode, like Spock and his potential in curiosity at this thing. And Pike kind of just being sort of a talking head for most of the episode. Is that a result of how a noir would do certain characters? I think on the enterprise for sure.

[01:05:47] I don't think the three on the planet, I think they are fully themselves and even richer, but like to the Pike specifically, his first line, when we cut to him kind of giving the, the kind of exposition, like he is reading it differently. He was the one character who I was like, oh, is he trying to do like a noir thing where he's kind of just reading it like a police blotter or something? It's, it's, it's an interesting choice. Um, that's my answer. Yeah, I think totally. Absolutely. I mean, look at the way they did my, my girl on dirty.

[01:06:16] Like I, again, like she's the chief security officer. She's been nothing but a bad-ass and yes, they're doing the questioning herself situation. But I feel like this being a quote unquote noir episode, like they did that to her character to kind of fit into what they were doing for the episode. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'll, I'll agree on the enterprise. Yes.

[01:06:42] And, and, um, to go back to Newman's call a little bit with it being black and white, I think it would have been really fun if they had been like, okay, well, the planet is black and white. The enterprise is far enough out that they're just like grainy seventies style, like halfway between and then done a seventies style thriller there because it would have made more sense for how the characters were. I do think they were all a little more dumb than they needed to be to make it fit the story. All right, buddy. I'll let you. My dog is going through.

[01:07:10] Well, Melanie makes a great point about the deleted scenes too, because just yesterday I saw behind the scenes shot of Una, like holding this really cool looking knife up to a character. I'm pretty sure we didn't see in the episode. Also, the writers talked about like a lot, apparently like the script, they wanted to make a feature length for sure. And I definitely would have watched that. Apparently they, they put a lot more of the black and white ness into the world. What would a world without color, how would it function and what would their technology be like? I definitely missed a lot of that. I wish some of that had made it into it.

[01:07:39] It sounds like they also like just fleshed out the world and what the occupation is and what all the different objectives of the different parties are. I would have liked a bit more of that, but specifically going back to the core of it all, both the writers and the directors talked a lot about how he was kind of like, you know, like the working Joe villain. Like he's a middleman. He's kind of got a job to do. Maybe he doesn't love it, but that's where what he's doing right now. I, I don't remember seeing that in the episode.

[01:08:03] That definitely feels like maybe a big part of his character that wound up getting cut out maybe late because it seemed like everyone thought it was still in there. Well, I think he likes his job. That's what it came across. I know. I was like, what? He's, he's really good at it, but I think not like the head clean on right now. He's kind of come across that way.

[01:08:20] Well, and what I think what they were kind of pointing at is sort of that banality of evil thing where it's like, cause they did talk about like and or being an inspiration and it's like, I mean, a lot of and or is about how not, not all these people are going to be actively like, you know, fully behind the evil idea. But they have a job.

[01:09:03] But they have a job and it's their middle managers. But he's like, all right, the job I've got, I'm, I'm core that har master. I'm going to do it. Let's, let's do it. Like, it is a job he has been given or I guess will be given in the future based on when this takes place in the timeline. But this might be where he finds out he's pretty good at that. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay. I have a question that just popped into my head that might've confused me a little bit yesterday.

[01:09:33] And it's, and it is about the whole black and white thing. So, okay. And it like goes back to the last scene. Um, when, when they're, where they're leaving and, and, uh, uh, uh, or is like, okay, we're leaving the system. And then you see Una's face change in the mirror from black and white. Okay. Okay. They're still on the shuttle at that point. Yeah. They're not back on the enterprise. Right. Nope. So why is the enterprise black and white?

[01:10:02] Yep. Like there's a, I know, I know. I bumped hard on that. Like, I get why you want this. I just looked at the star map. Yes. I totally get why they wrote, they wrote the scene like that. But like, I, I literally just looked at the star map. Okay. Please. There's a very quick line where they say the enterprise is waiting for us on the edge of Maharin, uh, uh, the solar system. Yeah. So apparently for some reason, though, they've been trying to get the shuttle back this whole time.

[01:10:33] The enterprise moved away from just outside the Klingon zone to just outside the radiation zone. Yeah. Also, I'm pretty sure they said we are now passing the Klingon zone and then moments later there. Yeah. It doesn't check out. No. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It's purely for the final shot and the metaphor of it all. Yeah. Yeah. Just make the enterprise seven Ds saturated. Well, and I, I think that's kind of emblematic.

[01:11:01] I think it's kind of emblematic of, uh, you know, the two sides of reaction to this episode where it's like, yeah, that's going to bother some people. Other people hand up. We're not going to notice that. And if they do, we'll be like, okay. Like they, they wanted that shot. So it's there. And I'm, I'm fine with that rule of cool goes a long way for me. And I totally get it. Yeah. Totally get it. As a writer and as somebody who works in this industry, I get why that scene is there.

[01:11:30] But as a nerd, I'm like, wait, well, when the whole plot, I mean, yeah, that's one of those. I just, it's right there on the threshold. The whole plot. Everybody's black and white. And then they are still on the shuttle. Not at the enterprise yet. Or is this like an Elyrian power? We didn't know she had, or she's like, oh, I could have been color the whole time. Well, even to the beginning. There we go.

[01:11:59] Even in the beginning when her is like, oh, I'm having trouble with this. And I'm being, it's like, oh, well, let's close the blast shields to help with that. I know they're closing the blast shields to save on money. So they don't have to show the storm through the windows when they enter the planet. A hundred percent. That's why that's moments there, but they close and nothing changes. Oh yeah. Yeah. I also, I was like, wait, what was the point of this? Like you did it. I thought it would kind of come into color a little there. Right. Or like if they could shine a flashlight in just that. That little spot was in color. Yeah. I know.

[01:12:28] Is this the nerd part kicks in hard with the black and white? Yeah. Is this episode going to get a fan at it with splashes of color? And like, here's where I thought this. See episode four colorized in parentheses after it. That'd be pretty fun. I was here from Grayson. Cause he actually talks about some of this. Oh yeah. Hey, open pike. Okay. It was absolutely gorgeous. The bogey and bacal of it all.

[01:12:52] I can't wait to hear Abby talk about the costumes, shades of Casablanca cabaret, people walking into focus. I mean, it's just a really beautiful production. My big question is why? Why black and white? I get the sun, radiation, yada, yada. But if they had produced this exact same script in color, would anything have to change? It comes up in Uhura's interrogation, but that doesn't really go anywhere.

[01:13:18] And then at the end, Una asks if she did the right thing and poor Babs has to deliver that line. Few things in life are black and white. Please tell me we did not shoot an entire episode in monochrome just to land that metaphor. I wanted there to be a moment where the lack of color was like the key to something. Like normally we wouldn't be able to solve this problem or make this choice or feel this way. But due to these unique circumstances, there's a new option or realization. But I missed it if it was in there.

[01:13:47] There's a couple other things. I don't think we've seen the last of Una's double. And I hope not because I need more than water coinkydink. And if the Klingon ship in orbit was 80% knocked out by the EMP, how is our shuttle flying? It was good. Or all the others. It reminded me of that Voyager episode where everybody wakes up as factory workers and Chakotay is undercover as Amal Kote. But I'm ready to move on. Bring on the puppets. Yeah, I mean, 100% Grace. And I am thrilled this episode is in black and white.

[01:14:18] To Jesse's point, I would have accepted it if it had just been black and white. It's freaking gorgeous and I want this. But I like that they gave it the scientific explanation because as far as I know, there is a scientific explanation for it. Dune 2 did it. They can do it here. I love that. But and I love that the characters can comment on it. Like it brings us the audience into the story more if they're able to talk about it being in black and white as well. I think that's why I wanted the scientific explanation. But it had to play a bigger part in the plot.

[01:14:46] Like it just it needed to have some sort of key system, some big obstacle as opposed to just Ahura quickly recovering and no one caring. Oh, as for that line. Oh, sorry. Sorry. No, go ahead, Tom. Yeah, he brought up that line from Ahura that was like, oh, yeah. What color are the trees? Green. No, I mean red. Wait a minute. How the hell do you know what green or red is? You're in a system where everything is black and white.

[01:15:15] Well, the Klingon, it sounds like they've heard of other systems. They have warp capable ships. You can hear of other systems, but if you don't, like if the people on that planet are like that just bothered me right then. It wasn't even a thing that hit me last night, but I was like, wait, she said green and then red. If she was born in a small village on the outskirts, she doesn't know what green or red is because she's probably never left the planet and everything's in black and white.

[01:15:43] Like, I, this is, uh, there aren't enough words in existence to explain color to somebody who has never seen the color. Like, yeah. Well, and so I, to your earlier point, Tom, I kind of read that as, oh, is this core playing her? Like he knows she's not from there and he's going to just, he, there's two possibilities where he's like, I'm going to put this unstable element back on the side of my enemies and, you know, count on some screw ups there or like use it as a gotcha.

[01:16:13] Or it was the, like overconfidence of, you know what? One person's not going to make a difference. We're so close to this plan that we're talking about in Klingon coming to fruition anyway, that it's like, don't worry about it. Just let this person go. Cause now we, you know, they, they fulfilled our fake made up requirement of having an ID. So like whatever. Um, but I did think it was going to play into that question you had earlier of who's playing who here. Right.

[01:16:40] Because then he does end up talking to Una directly about Uhura. And I was like, oh, this, this thing is going to come up. And also like when he, when core says like, this is quite the enterprise you're involved in or something like that. I was like, oh, he knows, like he totally knows. And he's going to probably try to kill her. I mean, yeah, like this is, this is intense. Like, but I, I think, I think, because again, I'm not super well versed.

[01:17:07] I think that's part of the noir genre of like, be pretty, you know, hit the nail right on the head, be very on the nose with some of these things. And to Grayson's point, like I hear you. Like, yes, if this was all for this metaphor, is that a little bit maybe of a letdown?

[01:17:24] But I will say like, if you have been tracking media literacy lately, like sometimes you need to just come out and say the thing, especially with modern stories. Um, and, and I'm, I'm not saying that that's the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do, but I could absolutely see a discussion among writers where it's like, do we need to be more subtle with this or less subtle with this?

[01:17:50] And I'm just kind of erring on the side of man, sometimes people aren't great at watching TV shows. Let's just come out and say it. Now I will say the other point of that is these are Star Trek fans watching this. They know what they're doing. So I totally hear you, Grayson. Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Katri. Hi, OpenPike gang. I want to share five thoughts about this episode. First, I'm missing the color.

[01:18:17] I know why it was absent and that it also had a purpose, but I really missed all those beautiful, strange new worlds, uniform colors, the color in the Enterprise, the shuttle and the planet. Second, does it really fit that Klingons are portrayed as these almost Nazi-like people? I think the Cardassians would have fitted much better. Of course, we don't know them yet. So I guess that wasn't really an option, but it still feels a bit strange to me.

[01:18:45] Third, as a German, I always stumble over the use of German words in Star Trek. This time it was doppelgänger and the subtitle even had the German Umlaut Äh. Fourth, I loved that short scene with Scotty and Ortegas. And finally, I wonder if there's also a deeper message here about the dangers of authoritarian systems. To me, it feels particularly relevant right now. It's not just something that could happen in the US.

[01:19:13] We are seeing similar tendencies in Europe too. More and more people are supporting political movements that promise to make their country great again by turning away from democratic values. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I still have to listen to the Strange New Words podcast. I'm really curious to hear what you have to say about this episode. Thanks for your podcast and live long and prosper. Katrine, thank you.

[01:19:39] This is the thing that I was sure people would latch onto and say, finally, Strange New Worlds is addressing a real world current issue. They're telling a story that matters specifically for the time that it's being told in. This is a story about authoritarianism and all those kinds of systems of government that suppress people where they live.

[01:20:05] And I was kind of blown away that more people weren't excited about that. I have seen so much discourse over the last three and a half years of like, okay, but why? Like, what is Strange New Worlds saying to us? And then in this episode, they're saying something very clearly to us. And it seems like maybe it didn't land or people had disengaged enough where they were like, it's too late for me. I don't know.

[01:20:35] Maybe that's what it was. But I was sure this would be the thing people would latch onto and go, finally, it's saying something that matters right now. And I agree with you about missing the colors. But the nerd brain in me is like, this is how most people saw Star Trek the first time was in black and white. And I'm completely here for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I just, I remember being like, yeah, using Klingons as like a metaphor for occupying forces, particularly Nazis.

[01:21:05] It seemed brilliant. It fit everything to all your, everything you just said, Jesse. I think it was a great use of the world of Star Trek to reflect our modern world in a way that felt very TOS. Even though I know Klingons were originally communists, now they can be something different. They can be all sorts of things. Like the writer said, like their episodes can be about all sorts of things. I do wonder, and I think your comment about missing the colors 100% fair, like Strange New Worlds is known for its color.

[01:21:35] So like taking that out of an episode does take out like a huge strength of it. So this is not directed at you, but I was surprised how many people I saw on social media be like, black and white, I was out in five minutes. And they may just be the trolls on these Facebook groups. They may be bots. I don't know. I hope so because I didn't think there were that many people out there who absolutely refused to watch black and white. Like my kids will comment on it when I make them watch a black and white movie, but they'll still sit and watch it with me.

[01:22:00] Like, uh, so maybe like to Jesse's point, like the people, some people just checked out because of the style before they got those meat and potatoes of the themes. And that's, that's too bad because I adored the style and, uh, there's very important themes in there. And Tom's camera. Oh, sorry. What do you have face tracking? I don't know. Yeah. Sorry. So my range short shorts. They're called ranger panties.

[01:22:29] Uh, or the Daisy Dukes of freedom as we like to call them in the special operations community. Sorry. I dropped that. Absolutely that. Dropped my guitar pick at my bridge crew guitar pick. Yeah. Ah, yes. Um, so yeah, I forgot the AI tracking. Like you guys got a, uh, a load of something you didn't expect. Um, you know, bringing up the color thing. Yeah. I absolutely miss it. And the moment I like, I, I, I understand the black and white of it and, and why they did that.

[01:22:59] Um, but like in the coming up next section, like immediately after the episode and then you saw the colors pop of the uniforms. I was like, oh my God, this is like, I wanted that. So yes, I missed the color. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[01:23:16] And yeah, and using, and I think it's the, that, the, the contrived one line explanation about why it was in black and white, I think is what mostly bothered me for the episode. Like I think Jesse said, if you're going to do black and white, just do it. Zero reason to explain. Um, the, and that line at the end that M Benga gives about the, well, things aren't all black and white.

[01:23:44] It made me go, uh, um, it's very second. Like it's so pandering to the second screen audience, you know, the whole, like, we got to say the thing because most people are watching, watching. Oh, and they're really just scrolling on their phone. And, you know, like, I think that is what bothered me. Um, more than anything else. Like the, I got to push back.

[01:24:12] Like, I, I like that because again, I feel like if I was in that situation, I'd be like, well, fuck, I can't not say this. Like here we are living in a black and white world talking about this. I'm not going to make the connection. Like, of course he's going to say it. Kim is absolutely a dad. And, and like, and I will say here too, like, I, I, also have strong feelings about the second screen audience and like the tendency to write in part for that audience.

[01:24:42] But like, as much as we might not like those people and don't want to watch Star Trek with them in particular, it's a real segment of the audience. Like there, it's, it's a thing that writers probably don't control. Like to the point, it's a, it's a studio saying, oh, make it work for people who are half paying attention. So like, I'm not disagreeing with the feeling that it brings up, but like, it is just a sad reality of like, yeah, that's going to happen in TV.

[01:25:12] That's made now. Like, I can tell you from experience and from having friends in this industry here in Los Angeles, when you submit a script or even a spec now studios will say, Hey, make this more. Second screen. Second screen. Like they will tell you to rewrite to, so that the people who aren't paying attention will understand. Oh no, this is a, no, I have to go take the laundry out of thing. Like it's a, it's a studio mandate.

[01:25:40] Like people are being told writers are being told rewrite to make this more second screen. That's a real thing. And it's obnoxious. I hate it. Trust me, as a writer, I hate it. So anyway. Yeah. Let's go ahead and hear from our caller. Platy. Hey there, open bike night. It's Platy M3.

[01:26:05] Going to preface this with saying much like the documentary episode last season, this was a great Trek story that just wasn't my genre. But hey, that happens. Here's the hit shits and giggles. All right. Hits. Everything looked nice, beautiful, awesome. The way the scenes were lit was pretty cool. And excellent acting by the entire cast. Shits. Did the people on the planet just cosplay early 20th century Earth without even a nod to why? I mean, they explain the black and white, but not even that stuff. Not even like a, oh, it's a human colony outside Federation space.

[01:26:34] Do the Klingons not have scanners that can tell humans from the blacky whitey planet peeps? All right. Character motivations were seemingly all over the place a little bit this episode too. La'an all but guts Kirk a couple weeks ago. Pike sweeps that under the rug. The crew watches genocide happen with the Martians and everybody and inadvertently helps create humanity. That's fine. Keep that a secret. But a hospital ship crosses a border to save people and La'an thinks she can't trust Pike with that. What? Also, Spock goes full on logic here. And you know what? He's wrong.

[01:27:04] Completely wrong. I hope La'an shoved that in his pointy-eared face and told him his ex-girlfriend completely fooled him. All right. Giggles. Had to giggle at the cross my heart. Hope he gets stuck in a pattern buffer line. Awesome. Also chuckled at the Cuban sandwich bit. I'm definitely team mustard. Unlike Kirk and his shit hot dog, Scotty is 100% right here. Platty M3. Signing off. Platty with the important points. Like, yes, mustard.

[01:27:30] Like, if you don't like mustard past like age eight, what are we doing here? Like, you need to expand your palate. Not on a hot dog. Yeah. And I do, I'll take this opportunity to say I found out something about Cameron recently that I never knew, which is that he does not like mayonnaise. Oh, God. I had no idea. Have you ever seen the movie Undercover Brother, Cam? Oh.

[01:27:59] It's the only blackness in me is that I hate mayonnaise. Otherwise, I am 100% Caucasian. I'm just, hold on. Let's not gloss past that. Undercover Brother is a masterpiece. I love it. It is a masterpiece. That and The Ladies Man. Two painfully underrated comedies. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel to Platty's point, like, I've given a lot of my shits and giggles this.

[01:28:28] I haven't done enough hits. I do like this episode a lot. I think to Mel's point, I love the style, like the episode. Overall, I'd probably give it like a B+. But yeah, I mean, just the music is amazing. Nami is knocking it out of the park this season. Everything about the music matches the costumes, the cinematography. I love this world they fly into and the individual streets and cafes they go to. The style, the story. I'm going to talk about the very end in a little bit because that I bumped on.

[01:28:58] But like the rest of the twists and the turns worked for me. It was right there. I mean, I just wanted to put that out there. I really enjoy watching this episode. And I think one of the most effective things is that you have these Nazi Klingon armbands. And like everyone involved was like, I really want one of those. Like if you can make that thing be a thing that people are like, I wish I had one. Like that's impressive.

[01:29:28] Maybe I wouldn't wear it, but I'd keep it at my house. Like I'm some kind of Supreme Court justice or something. But like, I mean, the costumes. Yeah, like we do. We will get to Abby, but like absolutely agree. Everything is beautiful. I do like this episode. I just don't love this episode. And I think a lot of our callers are hitting on why. It's like, I kind of think I wish there had been more buy-in from Mbenga on the resistance.

[01:29:56] Like he was there to counsel and provide. I kind of wish there had been that moment where he's like, no, go get it. Do the thing. Help these people out. Instead of the always being like, we just need to get out of here. This isn't our fight. This isn't our problem. It would have been nice to see. Because I feel like Uhura bought in. I mean, she did her thing for her survival. But at the same time, it would have been nice if there was a moment where all three of them are like, do it.

[01:30:25] Let's do our part. Yeah. You could even have a line from Mbenga that's just like, I just don't want to lose any more people. Yeah. Like, you know, this isn't me saying this is not a worthy fight. This is me saying I do not want to lose any more people. And they have this gorgeous silhouette shot when I think it's Mbenga and Una meet the bartender.

[01:30:52] And I was like, okay, so you have this setup. Why didn't you give Mbenga a katana to fight against this backdrop at the very end of this movie in front of a giant sign? Because Highlander should be in everything. Oh, I thought this was a Kill Bill reference. I don't know. I feel it matches Mbenga from Under the Cloak of War where they came to him and said, hey, will you fucking end this war right now? And he said, no, I'm not going to do it.

[01:31:20] And it wasn't until things got personal that he then took that step. Like this, he seems to, I don't know if it's jaded, but he's seen enough war where he's like, I know what will make a difference and not. And I guess that does kind of lead into my one problem with the plot on the planet, which is what are the stakes? Now, I mean, obviously Klingons are here oppressing people bad. Got it. Why can't they leave before they EMP blast? What does the EMP blast do?

[01:31:49] Because they can leave. Right now, the scanner just says alert, alert, alert. If they're leaving, no big deal. If all they're concerned about is leaving their planet, which doesn't seem like much of a victory. And maybe that's when Benga's thing is like, this is not a victory. You're getting them to run away. Okay. I mean, so like, yeah. And to the point, like if they set off an EMP blast that brings down the shield and the Klingon ship, how are they all escaping on spaceships? Okay. Because those spaceships were off. Off. Yeah.

[01:32:19] Is that how the blast works? I don't know, man. I don't know how EMPs work. No. So, yeah. I just, I wanted a little bit more like, what are they fighting for? What is the goal here? Because yeah, Unu kind of just seems to jump into the resistance with like no idea what the plan is. Yeah. Well, I think, and I could be completely wrong, but I think it is a give these people hope. Like you need to show that victories can happen. This is absolutely not the final victory. Sure. Right?

[01:32:49] This is one step in something that's going to take a very long time, which I think ties back into the whole when you're fighting fascism thing. It's you take the small wins where you can get them. Right? So, I think that that is kind of where they were leaning with that. But again, I'm not a writer. I just, that's kind of how I read it personally. Yeah. I mean, like the big thrusts are there and that's why I do go along with it. And that does feel very Noir-y. Like a lot of Noirs break down when you look at the plots.

[01:33:17] But it's more about like this person fighting for this feeling, these people fighting for that feeling. Yeah. And it being in Noir, it's like, hey, we won. But it's like, yay. Yeah. It's still a dark and gloomy story at the end of it. Yeah. The Maltese Falcon. Like all of these, even Chinatown. But yeah. It's Matar 7. Exactly. And even Mbenga says at the end, didn't he say something like, yeah, I helped turn over a planet to one guy.

[01:33:46] And then it turns out he was a piece of shit. Yeah. I was like, oh, all right. That's kind of a bummer. Then I had to massacre a bunch of his followers. Yeah. I had to kill a bunch of people and it turns out he was a dickhead. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Mishi. Hi guys. It's Mishi. This episode was fantastic and we finally get to see more of Una. I simply enjoyed it from start to finish.

[01:34:13] The world building was great as the bear, the costumes and the bar looked amazing. I also liked the La'an storyline. Now at least we know she's getting help after all. And I think this is where we're starting to see the end of her relationship with Spock. He has lost faith in her in this episode. And you can see how much it hurts La'an and how much she begins to doubt herself. I like Chaplin's. She doesn't have a huge amount to do, but what she does is crucial to La'an.

[01:34:42] She could have gotten away with tempering with a bro, but she chose to trust her and thereby helping her and showing that she isn't just paranoid. I also thought Pike was great at the end. He realized La'an wasn't telling him everything. Yet he showed her that he trusts her and her judgment. And that he's there for her if she needs him. I think it was a really good episode. Maybe not enough Pike, but that's just the Ensign fan talking. That's it for me.

[01:35:11] Have a great day. Bye. I mean, to that point from before, I do think Pike was the main character in the first season. But since then, yeah, it is much more an ensemble. And for reasons we've discussed, like, yeah, Pike's kind of gone through his arc. He's kind of here just to support everyone else now. And I do like that this is a consistent thing we see in Pike. Like, we've seen him know that he is not being told the whole truth and choosing to kind of, like, just trust the people around him.

[01:35:41] Like, we know that Uhura did this to save Erica in Terrarium. And Pike was very aware that the information he was given was not 100% truthful. So I like that it is at least consistent. And yeah, I do. I love Uhura for saving Erica. I think Pike's hair was really the main character of the first couple of seasons. Indisputable. Yeah.

[01:36:04] But yeah, he definitely, part of me, at the end when Lalonde was like, uh, when he said, did you learn anything else? And Lalonde was like, did you know Scotty and Ortega's was friends? And just, he kind of had a look on his face. He was like, I don't give a shit anymore. Kind of like, almost like, almost like he's like, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to burn up in a radiation thing and be stuck in a chair. He's almost at the point, he's like, I don't fucking care. You do whatever the fuck you want. You guys do whatever. Exactly.

[01:36:34] Senior writers. Definitely like, my five year mission is almost over. I don't give a shit anymore. I don't care. I like that take. I like that take. The second half of the season is him like actively trying to cause the accident. Yes. I've invited all these specific kids on the ship for a tour. Maybe we can speed this up a little bit. Yeah. Can we start this in engineering? Yeah. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Zoe. Open Pike Night.

[01:37:04] This is the USS Cinema, Zoe Richardson, Captain Commanding, and also host of Backlick Cinema, the podcast. So when I was looking at TV, I thought my TV is broken because what am I looking at? And then realize our team is in a section of Klingon space where they're forced to see the world monochromatically.

[01:37:26] And also, they find a planet in that section of Klingon space that looks like a 1930s America-style Earth. Now, is this too cheesy? Yes. Was it also a fantastic episode? Also, yes. I had a lot of fun with this episode because it reminded me of the TOS episodes of Bloor.

[01:37:52] Back in the olden days of TOS, they didn't have a holodeck. They couldn't have holodeck adventures. They would just go to a planet that looked like the 1930s Earth or an Earth where Rome never fell. And seeing as how there are so many humans spread out throughout the Milky Way galaxy, I can't see how it could be too hard to find an exact doppelganger of yourself.

[01:38:21] Uhura and Benga and Chin Raleigh really shine in this episode. I'm looking forward to future episodes. Richardson out. So I'm glad to hear you sobered up after last week. No kidding. Where on Earth looked like this in the 30s? I wish. I wish. If I had seen a Model T Ford rumble down the road in one of these shots, sure, I'd be like, okay, they went too far.

[01:38:49] But this is absolutely a stylized sci-fi version of what our planet might have looked like. But yeah, I mean, the human looking of it all is fine because we got that one TNG episode. But yeah, this is a concept art planet. This is not anything that has ever looked this way. Well, I mean, and I get it. I like, if you just look at a still of them, bingo, you're like, okay, 1930s Earth. Like his costume, trench coat and fedora.

[01:39:18] All the men's costumes is very 1930s Earth. Granted to everyone's defense. But like, uhura's outfit, that is definitely like alien civilization. Like all the women's, I think is pretty out there. I don't know. The L trains, the spotlights, the blimps. Ah. Yeah. Blimps, baby. I don't care. I'm never going to complain about blimps. Yeah. I thought they were in Gotham City a la Batman the Animated Series. Like that's what I kept thinking the whole time. Somebody, one of our callers mentioned that. I had to clip it out just for time.

[01:39:46] But yes, one of our callers did mention Batman the Animated Series. That's very accurate. Yeah. Because, and that is, you know, a stylized version of what they thought or what they think, you know, Manhattan or whatever it is. And I was like, oh yeah, this looks like Batman the Animated Series. Come to life. It's kind of like Fallout doing like, this is the world the 50s thought the future would look like. Yeah. This planet is the world the 30s thought the future would look like. Exactly. Yeah. And so my mind to your mind, man. Like every time I'm like, oh, that's cheesy.

[01:40:15] I like cheese. I put cheese on everything. My cats are named after cheese. Oh, nice. Pimento and Gouda. Gouda. Gouda. I had a Gouda. She passed. I had a mozzarella. We named her Mozzie. She's gone. The one that was on my lap is Colby. Another one is Olievet Sontro, which is a fancy French cheese.

[01:40:45] Wow. And Mario was originally named Mars Capone until I saw him licking his balls. And I was like, oh, you're a Mario. Not a Mario. Okay. I thought he was a girl for like a week. All right. Well, we have a couple of callers left. Let's go ahead and hear from Anthony. What's up, guys? It's Anthony Kelly calling in from Hong Kong. And I guess it's time for another genre movie of the week.

[01:41:15] I'm sorry, guys. This episode was absolutely my cup of green. I mean, I've read of green drinks on other worlds. This is what I imagine my cup of green would look like. This episode is my favorite of the season so far. Things I loved. Visually, it was stunning. It's surprisingly hard to shoot in black and white. And I was so impressed by the use of contrast and shadow, the choice of costume,

[01:41:39] and even the camera movements that made this episode a masterclass modern take on film noir. Core's performance was great, too. He's like any other Klingon, only more so. I love the subtle nods to how scheming he and the other Klingons were in TOS. I'm guessing that he hasn't been exposed to the augment virus yet, so I hope he's not too attached to those ridges. I love the grouping of Una, Joseph, and Nyota. And speaking of groupings with Scotty and Ortegas, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

[01:42:09] I am left with one question, though. Was Spock simply being a bad colleague and partner when dismissing all of La'Anne's concerns? Or do you think that he knew what Chapel had done and was deliberately covering for her? I don't know. Maybe paranoia is spreading. But I couldn't help but feel that La'Anne was actually being gaslit. Anyway, peace and long life, and I hope that you all have a great week. That would have been an amazing subplot if then La'Anne found out that Spock had already talked to Chapel and was now lying to La'Anne on Chapel's behalf,

[01:42:39] the ex-girlfriend. Ooh. A whole extra subplot. That's a whole other board. Oh, man. Yeah. And then it becomes Fatal Instinct, and then it's a whole other movie. A whole other can of Sedi Alpha eels. Yep. Anthony, I love this call. It is doing so much to heal my soul. Thank you for sharing your joy on this. I was sure there would be somebody that latched onto this. Hearing it as your favorite means the world to me.

[01:43:08] And I will... The thing about the Ridges, I have seen people complaining about the Ridges, and I'm like, can we just let this go? Like, Klingons... People were like, why don't the Klingons look like this in Discovery? And why do the Klingons look like this in this show? And why this and why that? And it's like, they're giving you the Klingons you were asking for, and now you're mad that they don't look like TOS Klingons. Like, come on. Just pick a lane.

[01:43:37] I'm so grateful for you, Anthony. Thank you for bringing the font of joy. See, what's going to be really funny is if we do see Kor like two more times, and they do the Pike's hair thing with his Ridges, they just get higher and higher each. So he's eventually a Discovery Klingon? Yeah. Yes. Give me that. All right, let's hear from our final caller. You've heard her mention multiple times. Here is Abby. Hey, hey, Open Pike. Abby Summer from the First Flight Podcast.

[01:44:05] Absolutely love that I get to talk about Noir Klingons. The lighting in this episode was amazing. The sets were amazing. The props were amazing. But you know what was the most amazing? The costumes again. Oh my God, this season is just giving me life with all of the amazing costumes. I also have to say that both Babs and Mbenga were absolutely perfect for this type of story. And Una, love that she's getting some focus in here. Love that she's having a Carmen Sandiego moment, almost with that hat. Loved that.

[01:44:34] I also have to say that the actor who played Kor, I haven't seen him on other things here. He's great. But in Klingon makeup, he looked like a missing member of the Jackson family to me. Not Michael, but maybe one of the lesser known ones. And once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. Sorry, not sorry about that. I also really liked in this episode, Ura saves the day being brilliant, knowing languages. That's no surprise there. She also looked smoking in this episode. But I really liked the Una and Joseph friendship that we saw again.

[01:45:03] We've seen little bits of that all the way since the beginning of season one. And I really appreciate them bringing it up and them being vulnerable to each other. This was a great episode. I thought it was really fun. It's going to bear a lot of rewatches for the details that I want to see. And I can't wait to see what's coming next. Hope this finds you in yours well. We need to make Abby like a open Pike Night costume correspondent sticker or patch or something. At this point, she is the fourth host. People call in waiting to hear Abby talk about costumes to the point where they're like,

[01:45:33] I don't need to mention this. It will come up. It's totally fine. She's not wrong. Everybody looks great in this episode. Yeah. And I agree 100% on Mbenga Una here because they have some antagonistic moments with each other. He didn't think that she heard that line of she's good at pretending to be somebody she's not. And then she throws it in his face. And he doesn't get combative. He just kind of is resigned like, yeah, I did say that. And I was correct.

[01:46:02] Like maybe my phrasing was off, but like I was correct. And I think you know that. And she does. It's like maybe two scenes, but it is very good to see these two characters, really Una and anybody have some expansion on their relationship. But I think that was for me, a big part of the strength of this episode is the character work. And I mean, we've said what a million times at this point, like Star Trek is often elevated

[01:46:30] by the performances and by the actors because again, it can be cheesy, but if you have people that are committed to what they're doing, it goes a long way. Yeah. I thought I took that line as a compliment. Like when he said she's good at being someone else, like I felt very much like that is an aspect of her character that yeah, it wasn't, you know, she didn't do it because she wanted

[01:46:57] to, you know, the Elorian-ness of it all. But like I took that as a compliment when he said to Ahura, like, look, she's really good at being a spy or, you know, just pretending to be someone else by virtue of the fact that she had to do it. And I think I didn't see it at all as a, uh, listen, she's, you know, she's really good at, you know. No. And I think, I think to your point, Benga intended it as a compliment and it's a skill that he

[01:47:26] values, but she personally receives it as like, oh, you're kind of flattening my past into this thing. And I don't appreciate that. Cause when she says it back to him, she's upset, but it's like, I think you're right that he meant it one way and she took it another way, which is part of what makes the scene great. It's like, that's real to life. Like you can tell somebody a thing and you mean it as a compliment. They're like, how dare you? Yeah. It's like, I thought we were being cool about this. So I loved the way that that scene read.

[01:47:55] And I agree with you completely, Tom. All right. Anybody have some final thoughts on this episode? Anything? I'm glad it exists. Like, sure. I could, you know, take. Damning with faith. Don't take it another way. No, I'm, I'm going to go back and revisit this episode so many times. I'm, I'm a hundred percent glad it exists. I just, I feel like, you know, I had my, my three plot things I really wish could have been addressed. Um, but that doesn't ruin the episode for me.

[01:48:25] Like it's, it's still a delight to watch. And I loved this episode. It is not my favorite episode of the season, but like there was a lot about it that I really loved. And I am, you know, as we get to the end of strange new worlds, I find myself more thinking about, I wonder how this series will be seen in five years or 10 years or 15 years, because if there's a thing Trekkies do, it's watch old Star Trek. Exactly. Yeah.

[01:48:53] And I mean, like specifically when we were in Vegas, I was talking to a guy because I was wearing the Gornhub shirt and that starts conversations. And he was telling me like, oh, my favorite, like I grew up on TNG, love DS9. My favorite series is enterprise. And I said, really? And he said, yeah, you can skip the first three seasons. And I was like, your favorite show is the one where you don't need to watch most of it? 75% of it. Yeah. Okay.

[01:49:23] Like that's incredibly interesting on a lot of levels to me. But it did, it did give me more of an impetus to eventually check out enterprise. Like it's my one blind spot in all of Star Trek. And I got to say, like hearing two or 300 people sing Faith of the Heart at the Masquerade Bar. I mean, like it works, man. It made me be like, maybe I should like this show. So I'm very interested going forward. You know, will people look back on this and say, oh, yeah, there was a message here

[01:49:52] that it was important at the time. And I appreciate that. And will people grow fonder of the episodes they didn't like? Because I mean, I know there's a lot of TNG stinkers that people point to as like, oh, that's a great episode. I'll watch it every time it's on. Very, very interesting thing. And also, you know, kind of simultaneously a bit of a sad thing where I'm like, we're running low on episodes of this show. And guys, what are we going to do next? My final thoughts.

[01:50:21] It's kind of like my failed marriage. It's not that I don't and didn't love my ex-wife. There were parts of that marriage that made me go, yeah, this could have been better. You know, there are things that I loved. Like, I love Star Trek. And then there are times where I go, this didn't make me feel good. I don't like this. But it's a part of the history and it's a part of the world.

[01:50:50] And I will accept it as such. But the one thing Strange New Worlds has done very well that I enjoy, and it was that Scotty, it's the little references. You know, Scotty going, cross my heart, hope not, get us stuck in a pattern buffer. I laughed like a small child when he did that. And how did your girlfriend react? She was asleep. She had the meat sweats as well.

[01:51:22] No, this episode is fine. It's fine. There are things in recent Trek history that have upset me far more than this. This was fine. This is, they're doing a thing. They're very, they have a plan for what they want to do with these episodes of this season. And we'll see what happens when we get to the end. Yeah.

[01:51:51] I'm suddenly wondering if Tom was laughing his head off when La'Anne told Kirk his son was going to die at the end of a blade. I did. I did. And that was one of those moments my girlfriend was like, why did you laugh? And I was like, we haven't, you haven't watched, you haven't watched Search or Spock yet. So there you go. Yeah. So yes, I definitely did. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I didn't know you had so many German listeners.

[01:52:21] Yeah. Fun fact, I will be performing in Germany in December. I'm going to be on tour. Go ahead and tell us a little bit more about that, Tom. Why don't you let everybody know where they can hear more of you and find you. Actually, do you guys know about the news with the band? No, man. Tell us if you don't. Going on the cruise? Going on the cruise? Yeah. The bridge crew, my Star Trek band is playing Star Trek The Cruise 2027. Wow. We got asked to play the cruise.

[01:52:51] So I'm doing an hour of stand-up. Do you need some roadies? I actually kind of do. I'm doing an hour of stand-up on the cruise. And then the band is playing three shows. And I don't know if it's not a secret. I can tell you. But we're doing three shows. The first show is called Song Trek, and we are playing pop music that you've heard in the Star Trek franchise. Nice.

[01:53:15] So I enjoyed last week's episode or the previous episode because Una sang Total Eclipse of the Heart in Klingon. And then I had to call my bassist and say, hey, guess what? You have to learn Klingon. She was not a fan of that conversation. And then we're doing one that's, we're doing a show that's all like parody versions of rock

[01:53:39] songs that I love that I've rewritten to be Star Trek songs. And then my last, the last show is the one I am most excited about. It is going to be a Star Trek cast live band karaoke jam. So Nana Visitor from DS9 has already, she has already committed to singing Fever with us, just like she did on DS9. Nice.

[01:54:08] And I went down to Comic-Con. I was in San Diego, I'm not exaggerating, 15 minutes. And I run into Todd Stashwick just walking up the street in San Diego. And I was like, Todd, we need you to sing a song with us on Star Trek The Cruise. And it's his go-to karaoke song. And his wife was like, he's doing it. So we've got Todd Stashwick, Nana Visitor.

[01:54:38] We just found out Brent Spiner is going to be on. So I made the band learn Blue Skies. Yep. So hopefully he'll come on and sing with us. But that's fantastic. Lots of Star Trek stuff happening. I'm going on tour with Brad Williams in December. I'm opening for him in Europe. So I think we're going to be in Germany, in Norway, and England.

[01:55:04] But for stateside people, I'm going to be headlining in Nashville, Tennessee, and Louisville, Kentucky. When does this episode come out? Is this episode coming out this week? Like two days. Couple days. Two days. Okay. I'm also headlining the Burbank Comedy Festival in Burbank. So yeah. But Nashville and Louisville, you guys are there. Definitely come out. There will be Star Trek jokes. Where can people follow you to make sure they have your schedule nailed down? TomTran.com.

[01:55:33] T-H-O-M-T-R-A-N.com. And yeah. And then just the bridge crew, which I had to remove the umlauts from our German fans. I had to remove the umlauts from that because I thought it was funny and cute. You know who didn't think it was funny and cute? Motley Crue's lawyers. Motley Crue. They definitely sent me a cease and desist because apparently they own that. Did you know that? They own the words Motley Crue with the umlauts. Yeah.

[01:56:03] That's a real thing that my lawyers had to do. So. If you haven't been sent one cease and desist, are you really creating things? Yeah. I think that's a badge of honor. I've gotten four. Wow. Van Halen, Bon Jovi, the Wu-Tang Clan, and Motley Crue. Weirdly enough, not CBS because they are historically litigious and I haven't gotten anything from them. You know, knock on wood.

[01:56:31] But yeah, Star Trek The Cruise is going to be big. So if anybody's going to be in Star Trek The Cruise next year, it's the 10th anniversary. The bridge crew is going to be planned. Nice. Hell yeah. That's fantastic. Well, thank you very much for being here with us. It has been a long night and the Open Bike Night crew has to go remove all the black lights from the studio because Jesse didn't understand what we were talking about. And it is a mess in here. So be sure to clean it up after yourselves. Be sure to tip your servers.

[01:56:59] You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here.