SNW S4E6 - “Off-Hour”

[00:00:08] Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds Podcast where your personal logs are the prime directive. I'm your host John T. Bolden. Oh my god, we just had a disaster. I don't even know if I can reach anybody. Is anybody there? Is Jesse Bailey there? My co-host? Can you read me?

[00:00:43] Hold on. Hold on. My eyes are freezing shut. No, I think I can do it. I think I can do it. Yeah, excellent. Excellent. And the man who, man, he will perform miracles. Can I see if I can get a hold of Cameron Harrison, host of Green Shirt Podcast Podcast? I don't know about Cameron, but you can call me Elphava because I'll be defying gravity because I'm floating because I love this episode so much and because of the gravity. Back to you, John.

[00:01:09] And joining us today to discuss Episode 6 of Season 4 of Strange New Worlds Off-Hour is our good buddy Kyle from the Lamplight Review. Welcome back. Hello, fellas. I'm just getting punched in the face by neutrinos. So let's roll. So much neutrino punching in this episode. Did any of you guys remember the neutrino gang from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon?

[00:01:34] Yes. It's so funny you mentioned that. I was just playing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Shredders Revenge. Nice. The retro video game they just released a couple years ago and the neutrinos were in the background and it was like a complete mind meld of like, oh my God, that was on Star Trek. And then the neutrinos were this thing, the flying cars and the silliness. And the weird glasses. Yeah. And I think they have the line like, oh man, you guys are cool. And then the neutrinos go, cool, we're ice cold.

[00:02:03] And for some reason that one line is all I remember about them, but it stuck in my head. The weird shit we remember. Well, I'm glad that was not just a me thing. I'm very happy about that. Before we get too far into the episode, let's go ahead and hear from our buddy, Engineer Mark. It's been a while since we heard from him. Hi guys, it's Engineer Mark here. Sorry I haven't been making calls and commenting a lot, but I've been very busy moving into my house and I miss all of you guys.

[00:02:30] The three of you, everybody we met in Vegas, the whole nine yards. And I still listen and appreciate everything, but I will be on hiatus for a little while while I'm dealing with all this. I hope you all are well. Live long and prosper. Mark, thank you very much. One of our best patrons, one of our number one fans, and just a great guy. And it was really fun to spend more time with him in Vegas. Indeed. Yeah. Our Vegas coverage is still coming. As you've noticed, we've been putting out a lot of coverage over the season.

[00:02:58] So we're going to record our Vegas coverage soon while it's fresh in our minds, but you'll probably hear it after the season ends. Yeah. We were supposed to have it done already, but somebody got sick. It was me when I got sick. I'm sorry. Vegas will do that to you. It was delayed by like two or three weeks too. I was fine when I got back. Actually, what happened is I went to my daughter's school twice in three days. Like once to meet the teacher, once for back to school. I was like, oh, that's why I'm sick.

[00:03:27] More like bacteria to school. Zing, take that. Sick kids. All right, before I get us in too much trouble, let's go ahead and hear from Abby. Hey, hey, open pike. Abby Summer from the First Flight Podcast. Woo, episode six. This was definitely a disaster, wasn't it? What does this season have with fingers? Last season it was eyes three times now, fingers. And Una's leg, real life caves from lower decks, no thanks. But this was a fantastic episode.

[00:03:56] Absolutely love some of the background costumes in the bar. Did you see that Tellerite with the iridescent pants? Woo, beautiful. And I always have thought that the crystal chandelier in the bar was a little iffy if there was a disaster. Glad to see that I was proved right here. I loved Pellaea's quarters. I loved her and Scotty in this one. Like, their relationship is beautiful. And Scotty, with his hand on the wall, gave me chills. Absolutely loved it.

[00:04:23] But this was a really interesting episode about putting medical science forward, putting all science forward, right? Very interesting to go there. I wanted to see them turn into lizards when they broke the warp threshold. Sorry, Cam, for the tiny spoiler. But they didn't. And that's okay because that was not the point of this. But, wow. They set up a lot of what's to come in this season, I think. And this is going to be one that people think of as their favorite of this season, is probably my guess here. I really like the Mbenga and Chapel stuff.

[00:04:53] I love their relationship. I've been missing both of them a bit this season. Glad to see them having some moments. But glad that everybody had some moments. Overall, this episode, while it's not all my favorite genre, was fantastic. Hope this finds you well. Everybody complains about Pike's fireplace. It's dangerous. It's not safe. What if something happens? And then they hang glass daggers above the entire bar area. I'm glad somebody called that out. Yeah, it's a violation.

[00:05:22] And I think all lighting should be inset, like they are in the beams of the port galley. Just go with the safe lighting. I'm going to say, why would you make gravity generators that can go stronger than 1G? Why would you put that setting on your grav plating? In the bar? Okay. That's very human-centric, John.

[00:05:47] I'm just saying, like, okay, then they're not going to have somebody who's more than maybe 3Gs on their ships. I'm guessing. Like, yes, ADA compliance and all that, but we know they don't care about HIPAA anyway. Why haven't you? No, I loved this episode. I'm not going to be- I was going to ask, John, because you have been saying, like, why don't they mess people up more on this show? Because they have this amazing medical technology.

[00:06:15] So, yeah, right away when I started, I was like, oh, this is going to be John's episode because people are hurting. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that there's been a more graphic scene in any Trek ever than that knee. I mean, it was like, it made me, like, lurch. It was rough. Her screams. Holy cow. Yeah. And the sound effects. I don't know. I don't know if I've heard, like, a more, like, gut-wrenching, bone-breaking sound effect. Yeah. That whole scene, I mean, the sound effects.

[00:06:43] I mean, you probably, if you've listened to our interview, you've heard me gush about it. But, like, that scene, I'm just like, every part of the filmmaking is making this scene work. Because how do you show an audience gravity? Yeah. That scene is a masterclass on how to do it. And, yeah, John, I just, I love that there's a gravity thermostat, a gravistat. Does every room have a gravistat? Like, oh, yeah, so I'm feeling a little heavy. It doesn't even have one of those little landlord lock covers over it. Yeah.

[00:07:10] But there is a Starfleet issue dad at each one of them. Yeah. Like, don't touch this. And I'm glad that Abby called out the pants on the teller, right? When we met Clint Howard in Vegas, he was basically wearing those pants. Like, his pants, they weren't iridescent, but they were silver and shiny and about that tight. And it was like, this guy is committed to being the sci-fi guy. I really like it. Yeah. Yeah. I do like. I didn't notice that until my second watch.

[00:07:39] And I was like, let me go to eBay and see if I can find a pair of those. Yeah. They're great pants. I love how they're like, oh, let's set this up. This guy's playing the piano. And Pike's saying, we don't use that piano. It's like, okay. Yeah. I guess we're not going to use it anymore now. Not after this either. I know. There was a point where I was like, is there a piano in this room before? Have we ever seen this? And then Pike's like, oh, right, right. Okay. I did like her point about Pelley and Scotty though.

[00:08:05] Cause I, it's just, it's such a great relationship and, and Carol Kane is just such a treasure on this show. I mean, she consistently provides great moments and the chemistry between the two of them and the setup for what Scotty will be. Um, his, his, you know, love of the enterprise and his just reliance on feeling is very much established in the, in the later, uh, parts of this episode. I will confess though.

[00:08:33] Like, like, obviously I loved the scene where he's, you know, touching the wall, feeling the enterprise. And all I could think of was Leah Brahms. You touched the ship. Every time you touch the ship, you're touching me. I was like, I'm so glad. It would have been funny if Pelley came in and said that. It's like, what? What the hell, Pelley? Why are you being weird? But to the point of Pelley, really cool that we get, like, obviously Carol Kane, hilarious. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:01] But really cool that we get to see her kind of just play it straight. Like, this is an intense situation. She's still got whimsy, but she's kind of toned down in this episode. And it works. I mean, nobody ever said Carol Kane didn't have range. But if you needed proof, here it is. Well, in season three, I remember talking to the writers being like, how wonderful is it to have this tool? Hell yeah. Not a tool. But that can bring the gravitas and the joke. You need a button for a scene? She's got that.

[00:09:30] You need someone to just, like, imply something horrible is happening? You got that. Like, she does it all. Well, and I really wish I had been able to talk to the writers and director for this episode. I want to shout out just her story. The entire story. It's never called out. She's never hassled. She's never stressed. She is searching for a leak in her quarters the entire time she's talking to Scotty. She's pulling stuff off the walls while she's talking to Scotty.

[00:09:59] She's staying calm and mentoring him. And then finally, slowly lifts the calendar and finds the leak. Like, that's, if you watch it, that's all she's doing the whole time is looking for that leak and just being so chill about it the entire time. And it's like, I just love that kind of subtlety for her in when she's like, no, I have something more important to do. I just still got to find this leak while I help Scotty out. Yeah.

[00:10:23] And the subtle joy that she had when she found the actual leak and then didn't reference it at all with what she was talking about. No. Like, it was just a thing that happened and you could see her joy, but like, it was never even mentioned verbally. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from the caller. Here is Melanie. Hi, guys. Here's Melanie. Okay. This episode was intense. It throws the Enterprise straight into a nightmare. The ship is trapped in a catastrophic situation.

[00:10:51] Everything starts going wrong at once and the crew has only a very limited amount of time to figure out how to survive. And somehow, despite all the chaos, they still managed to make this feel like a story about the people rather than just being another big space disaster. And I loved it. Scotty gets some fantastic moments. Pilio is brilliant. And Spock, Lan, Una, Ortega's, Chapel and Banga are all thrown into situations that keep getting more and more dangerous. And the medical scenes? Ouch. Ouch. This episode really went all in.

[00:11:19] There were moments where I generally had to look away for a second and I really feared for Manga, though I know he will survive. And then Pike. Yes. I am always very happy when there is more Captain Pike. And here is exactly the Pike I love. Calm when everyone else is panicking. Completely focused on his crew. Making impossible decisions without losing that compassion that makes him such a great captain. And naturally, when things get really bad, Pike is willing to put himself right in the middle of it. Because, of course, he is.

[00:11:50] But, boys. Boys. I pictured him completely different. Grumpy, yeah. But still a good friend and doctor who doesn't give up easily. After all, he brings Chris a martini in the cage. And, well, he is the minus point in an otherwise perfect episode for me. Live long and prosper. And do you notice that Boyce is drinking a martini when he's first introduced? Nice little piece of continuity there. I took Jorg Hillebrand on Twitter to show me that he's actually introduced before his big introduction shot.

[00:12:19] You can see him in the background of one of the first Port Galley shots when they're listening to the piano. Now, I had this similar reaction the first time I watched this. I was like, this is not making me like Boyce. But I think as I watched it the second time, I was like, oh, Boyce is correct. He's saying the same thing Mbenga is saying. Like, you should be focusing on helping as many people as possible here. And that's what Mbenga is telling Chapel the whole time, too.

[00:12:49] Right? Obviously, we want her to save Mbenga because we love Mbenga. We don't know most of these people in the Port Galley. Yeah. But I was initially like, oh, they're doing a Jellico thing. They're bringing in a guy. They're making you not like him. He's the opposite of the other guy that we do like. But it's actually not that. It's he's very similar to the guy that we like.

[00:13:12] He's just in a different place physically and therefore is looking at the situation differently than Chapel is able to. Yeah. I mean, two things about Boyce. One, I was a little surprised by his his personality at first, too. It is different than what we remember from the cage. But he is in like disaster mode the entire time we see him in this episode. He is in triage mode. And that is a very different place than where he is in the cage.

[00:13:38] So, I mean, to be fair, yeah, he's the character that we're putting like the hey, we don't have time for that. So our main characters can be like, yes, we do have time for this. So he's kind of put into that position. But secondly, and, you know, the writers and directors talk about some things that got changed. And most of them are like, you know what? What's here works fine. We did miss a beat at the end with Boyce, apparently, where he comes in and lifts Chapel up at the last minute when she's, you know, has one more task to perform on Mbenga.

[00:14:06] He shows up, he helps her, he saves her life, he saves Mbenga's life, he gives her like a you were right kid look. And I do think like that moment is takes a lot away from his character and his arc. So I hope we get something like that the next time we see him. I presume we're going to see him again. And I hope that they managed to kind of rectify that. Yeah, I think what struck me with Boyce on my rewatch before we recorded this, he is the only one not on his back foot. Yes, he is in this disaster.

[00:14:34] Everybody else is responding and trying to stop the disaster. He is the competency porn for the episode. Not and it is definitely an Angelico type way. But also, you know, he's like, you know, that he's taking care of the people who he has at hand that he can take care of to the point of saying, hey, to get back from the doors. I can like he's watching the sensor to see if they're if lawn and Spock are coming back. He is the competency porn.

[00:15:00] Yes, they're all competently doing their jobs, but on their back foot. He is there not not getting in the way of the chain of command. But as soon as they ask him for help, he helps and he only ever tries to help. I do miss that shot. Yeah, he's agreed. Agreed. And he's also he's kind of framed as a potential like villainous jerk character. Yeah. And and it ends up not being the case. Like he's just practical. Yeah.

[00:15:28] And there's nothing wrong with being practical, especially if you're a medical, you know, persona. So I appreciated the nuance of that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even his line to chapel when she like, oh, we're breaking up. Can't hear you. Sorry. You know, he doesn't get mad. He doesn't throw the comm or the tablet or anything. He's just like, you got what you want. Yep. Good luck. No. And he actually I think he actually is wishing her luck in that. It's like weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I know a lot of people wanted Jeffrey Combs for this role.

[00:15:58] And I understand. Okay. But you get Brian Markinson and he has been in a ton of Star Trek. So the spirit of Jeffrey Combs, I think it lives on in this casting. Is he unfair to call him the poor man's Jeffrey Combs? Was that I think that's a little unfair. Yeah. Okay. Is he the in the episode where Worf's brother shows up? Yeah. He's the he's the one who like just dies. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I thought I'm pretty sure that's probably the same actor.

[00:16:27] So I was talking about Worf's other brother. Not Tony Todd. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Worf's human. Yeah. All right. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He is that guy. He is that guy. Yes. Oh, God. That episode. Which is funny because in Mad Men, that's almost what he does to when he first meets Don Draper. He steps onto an elevator with him and just has a heart attack and collapses. And like later on, like it's some time jumping in there, but Don Draper saves his life. Like, cause it's crazy.

[00:16:56] Like, hey, and it just falls off screen. This guy just loves dropping dead on screen. And what is Mad Men about? Wow. And I thought Don Draper was in like advertising. Why is he saving people's lives? It's a, yeah, it's his neighbor and is in his apartment building. So dude, a lot of people die in Mad Men. There's a high body count in Mad Men. Not happy men. Not content men. Since we're responding to Mel, I mean, I do want to talk about what she said with, with

[00:17:25] Pike, of course, like he does have that truly heroic moment where he's looking at everything going wrong. He's looking at an electrified panel. The only button to save the ship at that moment is on that panel. He's not going to tell anyone else to push it. So he just, he hands the con to Ortega, which of course I'm like, yes, we get Captain Ortega. Yeah. And we don't get to see her do a lot, but she is fucking rocking that captain's chair when she does on screen. So I, yeah, that was a great moment. Yeah.

[00:17:51] I want to also say that, like, I really appreciated Anson's performance at the end of the episode where like right as the resolution of everything where it goes into the silent moments, like he has a shot where he's just, it's all facial and it's all him just processing everything that just happened and him trying to like decompress from everything. And then it goes into that silent moment. And like, it's just masterful acting from Anson.

[00:18:19] And him getting blown into that hand railing and flipping over backwards started a whole conversation on our discord about what is called Wump in fan fiction. Yeah. Never knew that. Wump is where you put the Blorbo's through physical pain to advance the story. Um, if you don't know what a Blorbo is, just, just look, just go to AO3 and start reading some fan fiction.

[00:18:45] So when I, I work in bulk electrical, not a lot close up with high voltage, but I used to work with some very high voltage stuff. Uh, we had these things called gloves. Anyway, again, I'm not going to nitpick this episode. I'm just saying Star Trek, get a, get a freaking piece of plastic, man. You take your shirt off and push the button, but let's go ahead and hear from Grayson. And just kick it with her foot. And we're back, baby. See you next week. Like there's, I don't know what else to say.

[00:19:15] It's such a good episode of Star Trek. I mean, it really, it was really, it's the best episode of the season. Maybe the best episode of Strange New Worlds. It lives up to almost every promise, um, that the show made us from the very beginning. Um, and just, just really fantastic. I, um, I loved all the little callbacks. Dr. Boyce is back and I can't wait for him to start serving martinis. Uh, and maybe the best, if you know, you know, retcon in the history of television,

[00:19:44] Eject Pod. Yeah. I cannot stop smiling. I was, uh, I was just so happy. That was just a delicious, delicious morsel, uh, in this otherwise fantastic episode. And then the, all the scenes in sickbay, um, just intense and powerful. It reminded me very much of an episode of homicide life on the street called the subway. Um, Vincent D'Onofrio, uh, finds himself caught between a moving train and the subway platform.

[00:20:12] And he gets all twisted up underneath the platform, but the top part of him is alive and alert above. And, um, the homicide detectives have to figure out if he fell or if he was pushed. The show is called homicide life on the street. So, I mean, maybe that's a spoiler. Maybe not. Um, but it's really great. Andre Brower and Vincent D'Onofrio act their faces off. And, uh, this gave me an excellent excuse to go back and watch that again. And I recommend you go back and watch it too. All right. Bye guys. I love the enthusiasm and excitement in your voice, Grayson. That is me.

[00:20:41] I, I, I wholeheartedly agree. Best episode of the series so far. It's my favorite change the world's episode. This episode is so good for everything you said, but Jesse, I, I've seen this elsewhere. I need someone to explain to me the eject the pod reference. Okay. So there is an episode of the original series called court martial where captain Kirk ejects a, an ion pod. So commander Finney is down in this ion pod. And if they ejected, it will save the ship because if they don't, it will explode.

[00:21:11] And destroy the whole ship. And it becomes a question of, did Kirk eject the pod early, therefore needlessly killing commander Finney, or did he do it at the right time? And it turns into a whole thing about, well, if it's yellow alert, you can not eject the pod. If it's red alert, you can eject the pod. And it has to do with like Kirk's muscle memory and which button did he press on the chair and things like that. Is the computer lying? Spock goes to great lengths to prove that the computer is lying because Kirk is in the

[00:21:41] middle of this court martial. And then it gets a little off the rails because they're like, Hey, let's finish the court martial on the enterprise. And that seems dangerous. And they bring Finney's only surviving child onto the enterprise with them. And then of course, another crazy thing happens and everybody's in danger. And it's like, this is why you do this in a courthouse, not on the enterprise. But the eject the pod is like a pivotal plot moment in that episode.

[00:22:08] So it's, it's a nice tiny, like Grayson said, if you know, you know, callback highly recommend watching court martial from the original series. It has a lot of what makes people love Star Trek. Got the minutia. It's got the naval aspects going on and I'm not going to spoil it, but it is, it does turn into Kirk gets court martialed. He gets into prison and we don't see him again. Well, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes. He did serve to die. It's Kirk's last episode. I hope he burns in hell.

[00:22:38] Right. Right. That's from that episode. Yeah. It's, it's a first season episode and it's the last episode Kirk is in. Understood. That killed me. All right. Let's go. And I have not seen, man, I think I've seen like three episodes of homicide back when it was airing when I was probably too young to be watching homicide life on the street, but I, well, and I do, I do want to say, I think it's interesting that both this season

[00:23:06] and last season, episode six is a Bill Wolkoff banger where people are like, this is my favorite episode of the season. Cause last season it was the say lot who ate his tail. And this season is this episode. And it's like, I mean, if you look at the episodes Bill has written, it's ghosts of Lyria lift us where suffering cannot reach those old scientists, subspace rhapsody. Shults can for you say a lot who ate its tail. And now this one off hour. Damn. The guy has a solid track record.

[00:23:36] It is a good episode. It's not the best episode of the series. Go ahead. You're wrong. Yeah. I was going to say that I think the fandom needed this episode. Yeah. Everyone was so up in arms about how experimental this season has been so far. And there hasn't been what they consider like classic Trek or like something that is like highly dramatic. Um, it's all been just kind of like messing with genres and like here we, we get high

[00:24:02] drama and lots of stakes and lots of, uh, character development and, and the reaction has been very positive and it's been like, Oh, this is what we've wanted. Um, I almost think maybe it might've been better suited earlier in the season. So people didn't freak out and just think the whole show was just like a genre switch every episode. But, uh, but it's nice to have this sort of reset and, and have the fandom get more excited about this season. Yeah. I, I'm glad to bring that up. So I have watched the entire season now. I did finally watch 410.

[00:24:33] I think for a lot of people, I'm going to put this carefully. I think for a lot of people who've had a hard time with the first half of this season, the more time that passes, and I'm not saying this is how you should make TV, but I think the more time that passes this season, the whole will be greater than the parts for a lot of people. I think by the time people watch the end of the season and then start going back and watching

[00:24:59] the whole thing, they're going to be like, damn, they did something with this season that they have not done with a season of Star Trek, Stranger Worlds yet. So I can't wait to see what the next decade brings for, for this season specifically. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I'm not mad at, at, I'm still, I still love all the genre swings. I've been loving the season. I mean, I, I, it might make me sound hypocritical when I say like, oh, the most classic Star Trek episode is now my favorite. But I mean, before this, my favorite episodes were like Elise and Kingdom and Wedding Bell Blues.

[00:25:29] So like, I just love a good story. I don't, it's genre swing, classic Trek, just give me a good story that makes me feel the feels all the way through. Yeah. Yeah. It's still terrarium. Go ahead, John. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Lucy. Lieutenant Lucy from London reporting on Off Hour. This episode has catapulted itself into the top five of the series for me. It's one of, if not the best episode at showcasing the ensemble cast's mutuing talent and the extent

[00:25:57] to which when they've got it right this season, like here and in episode one, every one of the cast and crew has really grown into their roles. Bill Wolkoff's great one-liners and quips, the set design with its extended Jeffrey's tube and umbilical cord in sickbay, the stunning external ship sequences and Dan Liu's direction are all on top form. And while there are four standout performances from Jess Bush, Absalda Sumakun, Martin Quinn

[00:26:23] and Carol Kane, I think each beautifully blending humour, humanity and pathos as they explore friendship and duty. I think we're also reminded by our underutilised captain in the sequences where Pike passes the con before activating the deflector shields, digests the crew's various neutrino plans, jettisons the pod after first calling a red alert. And the final touch on the bridge where Pike eases off his shoulder now that he has time

[00:26:50] to relax and feel the pain of the small things that Anson does so well. But amidst moments of plausible peril that defied ironclad plot armour of Spock and Mabenga, I was struck by the emerging theme of succession planning by Pike, Pellier and Mabenga this season, and also loved that Scotty has inherited Pike's line from Memento Mori, that the Enterprise will hold. Stellar episode in every sense of the word. Thank you.

[00:27:18] Do you think Pike, as he's making that choice, was like, again, this isn't how I go out, so... True. I can take this. Yeah. I will hold. That's true. But yeah, I do. I really love that scene because it shows a lot of presence of mind. Like, he knows this is going to hurt. It's going to incapacitate him. But it needs to be done. You can't put somebody else in that position. Like, really, really good moment.

[00:27:46] And yeah, I kind of hadn't picked up on that theme of succession planning, but you're right that it absolutely is there. Yeah, Jesse, you make a great point. Like, how do you live your life if you know that nothing is going to affect you? Because you know that's not the end of you. It can still hurt real bad. If he's like, oh, that was worse than I thought it would be. Does he not? Also, like, your listeners are peak, man. Like, they make such fantastic points.

[00:28:16] Like, congrats, man. Like, they're awesome. Fully agree. I 100%. But Pike's performance the whole way through. I love when he just, the subtle humor of him just being like, yep, I'm back, guys. Thanks for the catch up. Like, that's funny. I also love the, like, okay, slow down, guys. Neutrinos, what? Like, he really is the audience in that moment of being like, here's the techno babble. Let's go with it. It's apparently a lot more theoretically sound than I thought at first. So check out the interview with Bill Wolkoff to hear about that.

[00:28:45] But yeah, I mean, Pike from top to bottom, even though he's not in a lot of this episode, is great every scene. Yeah. I would really like to shout out Abaniya Sivakumaran, who plays Lieutenant Rada. One, I love that he hands her the con. She keeps the con. Like, they keep the protocol and she takes the con. But man, like, for a couple minutes on screen brings it as like, I am not afraid to be in charge of this ship. I'm not afraid to be in charge of this ship in a disaster. I will respond until the whole thing electrifies.

[00:29:14] And hopefully just knocks her out. And I hope she didn't die in that shot. Cause I'm like, I asked Bill, I asked Bill and he said, she does not because why Jesse? Cause she's in TOS. Yeah. Ah, okay. Okay. Then a lot. Yeah. No, it was like, and I feel like maybe it was either Bill or Dan implied that she might come back in stranger world. Cause they said something like, yeah, sometimes if they're good, we bring them back. I'm like, she was good. Is it her? Great. I agree. John agree.

[00:29:42] Like for, for, uh, you know, or he's the only guest star in the episode, probably named guest star in the episode or no, I guess a shot. But, um, sure. I don't know if she's a guest star or what, but, uh, yeah, she's, she's recurring at this point. Yeah. But yeah. And to Lieutenant Lucy's point about Mbenga, I was upset. Mm hmm. I mean, like perhaps unsurprisingly, but I was like, I know he lives. It was like, it was like the whole, the Ortega's thing from last season all over again.

[00:30:12] I was like, I know she lives. I know she's in the next season and I am freaking out this whole episode. And I think it, it might be because of how dirty they did in Mbenga. Like, come on, man. Like they smashed him like unrelenting pain, like very intense, super graphic. Like, I'm glad they didn't get more graphic with it, especially having watched the Griffin incident. Like they mostly implied his trauma.

[00:30:40] And I was like, man, this is through a graphic. Yeah. Like graphic does a lot. Using the scan to get around that really did wonders for me. Cause I was like, I don't want to see this. Like, well, just the way you see the chest sitting on the table with the blood, like it's done. So, I mean, you can listen to my interview with Bill to gush about it, but if you haven't listened to it, that there was an interesting tidbit there originally when it crushed him, it was supposed to twist him. Like his legs were supposed to be facing the other way. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:07] So when like chapel checks under the desk, she was supposed to see ass apparently. I don't, but, uh, things didn't work out. So they actually had to change the scan to make him just crushed in half, which was brutal. And like, I don't think it was intentional, but it brought up some uncomfortable imagery for me of like Anton Yelchin and how he passed. I've seen stuff about that. Yeah. Like I was, I was like, oh man, like, I know they're not intending to do this, but it's, it's bringing up that kind of thoughts in my head.

[00:31:36] Like not, not disrespectful at all. Like it was very well done, but like, it was just, it was brutal. It was just brutal. You felt it. Well, and to Jesse's point. And again, you may have heard me say this already, but like with her take us, I knew she, I, they never tricked me. I was like, okay, I mean, they're playing this really hard. I'm feeling the feels, but I know she's coming back. They got me with him. Bingo. I completely forgot. I like literally my mind started going through. Like, did we see him in, I was playing the trailer in my head. Did we see other shots from him from other episodes?

[00:32:05] Cause this was as far as we'd seen at this point. I'm thinking we were, when we visited the set, did they talk? Did they tell us anything about him? Bingo in season five? Like I was because they played it so well because chapel, I mean, Scotty saves a lot to Scotty does a lot of work here too, but it's chapel's idea that saves the ship. So like the way they played it is we get the big victory. The ship is saved. If she's already succeeded, it felt like they were leading it up to a TNG style. You can do everything right, but still fail moment for her.

[00:32:33] Like it really felt like it was like, look, kid, you saved us all. You have to take the one failure that, and, and it was like, and then a minute later I was like, oh, right. Legacy character. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to have to listen about the science. Cause that was on my first watch. That was the one thing where I was like, okay, that that's magic. Like it's, and it's, it's fine. Like Star Trek does that. That's fine. But like, it is magic.

[00:33:02] So like, I'm interested to hear the theoretical science behind it. Cause it, I mean, if it's more grounded than it felt, then that's impressive. Yeah. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Anthony. I'm Federation agent, Anthony Kelly. And today is my favorite episode of the season so far. It really was. Now for my first and perhaps most important comments, I need to give you a little bit of background just so that, you know, we're on the same page.

[00:33:27] As somebody who has had leg injuries and surgeries, plural, I have something to say about this episode. Ow. Oh, I mean, I'm starting to miss the old days of new Trek where each season was allowed exactly one scene of eye trauma and one utterance of the word fuck. But with this season of Strange New Worlds in particular, I'm starting to think that space is amputation and mutilation wrapped in darkness and silence. That said, I love the way space felt as dangerous as it has ever felt in Star Trek.

[00:33:56] From the cascade of deadly failures spreading through the ship to the gorgeous shots of Spock crawling to Chekhov's eye on pot. I thought it was a good Dr. Boyce introduction episode, a great Scotty falling in love with the ship episode and an amazing Chapel and Mbenga episode. Speaking about good Dr. Mbenga, what has he done to deserve this? It's not like he's a war criminal or anything, is he? According to the definition set forth by the Geneva Convention, yes. Damn it. And a few more 24 adjacent things that I loved.

[00:34:26] The pacing, the split screen, the open comms. But my only gripe was the chronometer. If they'd introduced it at the moment that Scotty realized that we were on a countdown, it would have made much more sense. That's all for now. Peace and long life and have a great week. I'm so glad somebody brought up 24. Yes. Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you guys, like, did you pick up on the real timeness of it all? The first time you watched it? I did, but like, I don't think they really, I don't think they utilized it that great.

[00:34:55] I picked up on it because they put it on the screen. So I was like, they're doing the 24 thing. Like, it's, I get that. It could have been like, to Kyle's point, there may have, maybe there could have been a scene where it was like, you've got four seconds and then they're showing the clock, you know, as the thing is happening. But like, I mean, I was fine with it. For me, it was the split screen.

[00:35:19] Like, gorgeous split screen, like changing sizes of different screens as different things are happening. Like, I really liked it. And you know what? It's not always about the definition of war criminal. Okay. Like, leave a bingo alone. I mean, like, kudos to using the clip in the call from Kiefer Sutherland. I loved 24. I have watched all of 24. It was good. Oh, okay. Same. I've seen bits and pieces.

[00:35:49] And like, I love how by the end it's like, oh damn. Okay. They're going. Like, you can only have so many bad days in your life before you go off the rails entirely. And they're like, let's make them go off the rails entirely. So I'm glad they put that kind of stress in there. I agree. I think the hardest part about using the chronometer and the countdown in a 24 style is there were commercial breaks in 24. And that would eat into the time.

[00:36:15] And there's one point where they do that and have the 23 minutes counting down and then right back to Chapel and Mbenga. And she's trying to patch the leak. And then it's like 22 minutes. I'm like, oh, all right. I kind of feel like we like a lot got handled in that one minute, whereas a commercial break would have eaten five minutes of that. I mean, to be fair, that's maybe where some of the suspension of disbelief is.

[00:36:40] We're like, how fast did La'on clip an near unconscious Spock to her, pull him out of the pothole, grab the magnet things, drag herself back across, go through an air lot, get back to the port galley. That happens in three minutes. Well, but she's going with the tide when she's coming back. Which would have been a cool shot to see, because I agree, those shots on the outside of the ship. If she had checked the time and realized she just kind of had to jump. Just rappelling down the ship, that would have been super cool. But I was like, okay, I'll go with it.

[00:37:10] We could have got her Captain America helicopter moment where she grabs onto the hatch and then is holding Spock on the other side. I mean, yeah, just tie a rope inside and then just jump up out and let the... She could get back there in 10 seconds if she's brave enough. Yeah. I mean, I... And just neutrinos flying with fireworks in the background. The visuals would be amazing. Yeah. So, I mean, I love that they have like the three super humans in the port galley doing superhuman things. Like, that's super cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah.

[00:37:39] Look, people kind of talk. No one's in a hurry. Despite the countdown, like everyone's kind of taking their time to talk things through and walking around. And then you cut and then like, yeah, apparently they must have like been scrambling in the past three minutes. But it's fine. I don't care. I love the... I didn't pick up on the real time the first time. I just thought it was a countdown clock. I'm like, oh, we're counting down to something. And that added a lot of tension to me. I loved it from the beginning and not finding out what it's actually counting down to until the middle. I thought that was a cool reveal at that point. I did.

[00:38:08] I was worried. It was... Since it was a chronometer, I just kept thinking time travel was going to be involved somehow. And I was like, oh shit, they're fucking everyone up. They're all going to die. And then someone's going to like reset time and it's going to be lame. They did not do that. So I'm... I was right there with you because I was looking at him bang. I was like, the only way you fix this is time travel. What do you got? Una's leg. And I'm like, oh man, no one's coming back from this.

[00:38:32] I will say to Star Trek fans, I have a hard time, a harder time liking Cassidy Yates because of how evil she is. That actress is in 24. Like, she is so good in 24 that I have a harder time enjoying her character in Star Trek because she's so evil. 1000%. Like, what a villain. Anyway. I watched 24 with Friends a few times while it was on.

[00:39:01] And there's like a moment where the character gets revealed and they go, oh, Jack hates her. And I'm like, am I supposed to know that? Like, but then in like the next three seconds, it becomes very clear that that's true. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. All right. I gotcha. Now, I think we should talk about Chapel because this is the most she's had to do in years. What? 305? 35?

[00:39:29] I mean, this is the most she's ever had. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is the episode, I think, that shows you who she is. Right? Yeah. I mean, I know that the Cloak of War does a lot, but. It does. But we've seen her be determined and very good at her job before. Or this is where we get to find out that she's also like incredibly brilliant outside of her field.

[00:39:53] Like, this is a ton of science and math involving, you know, potential medical applications. But she knows all the science and math. And it's like, for her to recognize that this is the situation where she could actually test that is like, I mean, that takes a lot. And I think it's a really great way to kind of give that character her flowers. Right? Like, because once she gets to TOS, she's going to spend a lot of time in the background, not doing much.

[00:40:22] More of a clinging mind at that point. Right? Yeah. Getting soup thrown at her head and stuff. But like, this is who Chapel is. This is her episode. And it's brilliant to take Mbenga out of commission to give her an episode, but still have it matter that he's the one there. Like, their scenes together, I believe that these people have been friends since the Klingon War. Right?

[00:40:48] Like, I believe that the connection they built in that episode has endured and grown and mattered as much as it has to this episode. And it's like, I mean, having Mbenga spend half the episode trying to tell this joke, like, talk about tugging at the heartstrings, man. Because you know the punchline. Like, this punchline has been used. This joke is like a modified joke from, I don't remember what the other thing was, but this is, like, you know the punchline as soon as he gives you the setup.

[00:41:17] And you're like, man, depending on when they deliver this, it's really going to hit. And I think it really does hit. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Steph, and we'll talk a little bit more about that joke. Hello. My name is Steph. I'm co-host on Education in VR's XR News broadcast from Engage XR. I have a friend who has always loved disaster movies. I think I now understand better why. Off-Hour immediately took me back to a drive-in on Cape Cod, watching the Poseidon go down.

[00:41:45] It's certainly a miracle how well Bill's episode does that film justice, if not tops it in pacing and production. Leave it to him to sneak a bicycle tire patch kid into an episode. When I found myself watching Off-Hour over and over again, I thought it was just because it was so damned well done. But it's also more than a little cathartic for me personally. I just suddenly lost an old friend, an employer earlier in the year. And my pet parrot of 37 years also just died in my arms after a long health struggle.

[00:42:16] Star Trek, and especially Strange New Worlds, had been my bird's favorite from the beginning, second only to Sean the Sheep. Human best friend was our very last laugh-out-loud time spent together. As you can imagine, I can't quite appreciate, or haven't, the Off-Hour is punchline right off. But eventually, I did come to appreciate the joke. I think it serves a very basic, profound truth about love, life, friendship, and death.

[00:42:43] Though loss, and through loss, and all the other near-misses our relationships are ever air to in between, as best you can, it is always better to laugh than cry. Thanks, as always, for the adventure, and this time, in particular, for the solace and inspiration. And a great interview, as always, Pike Knight. Well, welcome to the open Pike Knight stage, Steph. Steph is a first-time caller, and definitely very sorry for your loss. 37 years having a pet. I know parrots live that long.

[00:43:12] So, 37 years, I mean, I think turtles, I've heard, are kind of a generational curse kind of pet to give somebody, because they will live for 120 years. My son wants to get a tortoise. I have a tortoise, and he is five years old, and he's going to live way past me. My son's getting a tortoise because we've had a couple pets die, and he's like, this one's not going to die on me. And I was like, all right, kid, you're 11, and already thinking that way, okay. I'm very sorry for her loss, too. I got emotional listening to that.

[00:43:42] I've lost pets over the years, and I'm an animal lover, so it's just never easy, no matter how long meal it is. What a hell of a first call. I'm sorry we never got a call in from the parrot. Yeah. Right. I mean, that was a great call. And yeah, I mean, I think the point about laughter, I mean, obviously they have the saying, right? Laughter is the best medicine, and it's like, that sounds very cliche and maybe even trite, but that saying exists for a reason.

[00:44:09] There is sometimes nothing else you can do, so you have to kind of just find the moment of levity and let that be pervasive. And I think having it here where it's like, Mbenga, medically, Mbenga is sure that he's done, right?

[00:44:30] Like, he knows that this can't be fixed, and he is like, I'm gonna take whatever breath and time I have left to say this joke. Like, this is gonna be good for me, but it is gonna be really good for Chapel eventually. I think it shows great characterization from him, especially having mentioned the war criminal aspect of it all.

[00:44:57] It's like, this guy has seen death, this guy has dealt death, so to watch him face it in kind of a lighthearted, you-do-what-you-can-do sort of way is really impactful. Well, I mean, we see him face it in every way. Like, the moment when he's trying to push the table off him to kill himself to save Chapel, basically. Like, I think that's when the emotional welling started in me, and it just didn't stop for the rest of the episode.

[00:45:26] And it's around there where I was like, okay, this might be my new favorite episode. I was just all Toro. Yeah, and I'm like- But then, like, and then, but shortly after that, she's like, I'm not leaving you. And he goes like, you know what? I'd rather you didn't. Like, that moment's so good. I think it's a little bit before that when she's like, okay, you just stay here. I'm gonna go do something. And he's like, okay. Sounds like a plan. And he's just like, he knows something's going on. He doesn't know what, like, ah. He's great. I mean, he's great. Chapel's great. Back to that conversation.

[00:45:56] Like, she is so good in this episode. I just, it's the episode that makes me want to see more Chapel now because, like, she does some amazing stuff. Just when the lights go off at the end and she's like, what now? And that wonder if we're, like, storming off to get the axe is so moving. And just to bring it back to the joke, do you know why it might sound familiar beyond it just being a classic joke, Jesse? It's the first joke Bill told us on this podcast. Yep.

[00:46:23] A version of it, not the land of the night, but he told one with Sir Patrick Stewart receiving a present. There you go. Yes. Well, and there's also what you mentioned there, a little bit of humor from Chapel. Like, hey, just stay there. I'll be right back. Yeah. Don't move anywhere. He ain't going anywhere. And to address the Poseidon adventure of it all, I love that movie.

[00:46:46] And I kept being like, okay, who's going to be the Gene Hackman of this episode or Shelley Winters or, like, people would be dying off in that movie, like, crazy to help the others survive. And obviously the whole engineering crew, oh my God. Oh. Like one lady gets out in time. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, this is like the reverse Geordi. She's like, I'm out. And I think that matters because, like, in TNG, every time that door starts to close, you're like, whatever, everyone's fine. Right.

[00:47:16] In this, it's like, okay, most people are not. And Scotty is furious about it. And Martin, like, that betrayal, I'm like, I'm glad he knows that happened because he does deliver that line. Like, he has been betrayed by this ship. And I'm glad they're addressing, like, yeah, he got not betrayed by his last ship, but it did go down under him, his last ship, and his whole crew died.

[00:47:42] And it's, I know, obviously, trauma is a huge part of storytelling these days, but I feel like he addressed that without it being, you know, it's like, it's just a thing that happens. Like, I am having a hard time trusting this ship, like, not again, not again, damn it, kind of thing. Well, again, I mean, they snuck it in there. I was emotional during all those scenes, but, like, it's because they didn't play it like a trauma scene. They played it like a romance. Yeah.

[00:48:10] Like, it's the romance between Scotty and the Enterprise, and I love that, that we get a love story in the midst of all this. And, yeah, Bill was like, yeah, but if they're going to fall in love, you know, the Enterprise has to burn him first. And that made so much sense, like, if you follow this episode, just his story, it is the arc of a romance, and it's so good. And, Cam, you mentioned the scene when Mbenga decides, I'm going to end this, and starts pushing the table.

[00:48:35] Like, there should be Emmys coming out of this episode, in my opinion. I hope so. More than one for more than one department. And not just acting, but yeah, yeah, I'll talk about it a little later. I was messed up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Val. Well, this episode gave me everything I wanted in a Star Trek episode. I always loved the ship disaster ones, Momentum Worry, Hegemony, Salad Who Ate Its Tail.

[00:49:03] The performance of the crew, and this one in particular, were truly amazing. But I wanted to talk about what makes Strange New Worlds so great to me. I watched the first two seasons by myself. In season three, I got to watch all the episodes with my parents, who became fans of it. This season, I'm watching it with my mom and my nephew, who is 13 and now loves it. He started watching Star Trek with Lower Decks. That was his entry point into the wider Star Trek universe. Watching with others is amazing and worth waiting on a new episode just to experience it with others.

[00:49:32] In some of the episodes, the jokes just land better with the group. But when you see Mbenga crushed by a table and Chapel fighting to save him, that moment is so much deeper, watching it with others who are on the edge of their seats, also seeing what will happen. There's a lot of criticism about the show that seems to center around it not being Star Trek or the Star Trek someone wanted. But this is a show that can bring people into the wider Star Trek universe. Get them to love the universe, the characters, space, ships, science as fantastical as it can be at times.

[00:50:02] And the heart that Star Trek can bring as well. Absolutely love this episode. But more than that, love what they're still doing with the series. I'm kind of jealous. I didn't get to watch it with someone. I tried to get my son to watch it the third time I watched it and he was mildly interested. But playing on his tablet the whole time, I would have loved to have seen this. I've got a buddy that's a Star Trek snob. And I had to convince him to give this one a try because he hated Discovery. And he did come around on this one and he has enjoyed it.

[00:50:31] So it's nice to have someone to bounce opinions and critiques off of. Nice. I have a buddy who's an older Star Trek snob. He started watching Academy. Life got real busy under him. Started watching Academy and got to episode five. I'm like, you have to keep watching it. I know you're not sure about the series. Trust me. Episode six will make you sure of this series.

[00:50:58] And it's strange but good when you can get somebody new to start liking this series. Well, and for me, much as it always has been, this is the illustration of the value of Open Pike Night for me. Like, these are the people I get to watch these episodes with. I get to hear about it from all of you callers and frequent guests and people that are on our socials, in our Discord, that kind of a thing. You are my Star Trek friends.

[00:51:28] And that's what I love so much about getting to do this because, I mean, there's one person at work that watches Star Trek. But she's a normal person with a real life. So she's like, oh, I haven't watched this week's episode yet. And I'm like, well, what are you doing? Who am I supposed to talk to? So it really, like, I cannot state enough how much it means to me to have a whole community of people to talk about Star Trek with.

[00:51:54] Especially this show because this is, I think, outside of Voyager. I had to catch up on Voyager to watch it as it ended. But the new Star Trek shows, being able to watch them as they're happening is something I always wished I could have done with TNG and DS9 and, you know, even the original series. So to have the opportunity to do it now and have a group of people to talk about it with means a lot to me.

[00:52:24] Is it strange that sometimes I regret that we have screeners? No. Yeah, I get it. You make an excellent point. And I just had a conversation with my friends about this because I have screeners of this and multiple other shows that I love. And I can't talk to anybody about it other than, you know, if I find a critic that has it. But like, I don't know. I hate most critics. They're awful people.

[00:52:46] And we were talking about this in the Discord, maybe yesterday, where Cameron was like, oh, you know, once you get to this episode or so, I can't remember what you said, but somebody was like, well, wait, how long have you had screeners and which episodes do you have? It's like, oh, well, we have them all. And people were like, how do you not just watch them all immediately? And I'm like, well, for me, it's partially because I don't want the later episodes to color my feelings about the entire season.

[00:53:16] And more than that, I just don't want it to be over. Like, I have still not watched 9 and 10. Yeah. I may do that this weekend now that we're getting close to them and we're going to be interviewing people involved with them. But like, it is a delicate balance for me. I think the first time we got screeners, I watched them all in like two days. Yeah. I'm surprised every time you haven't. Yes. Well, it's hard. And that's the thing is it's hard.

[00:53:45] Like, yes, my heart wants to watch them all. But my heart also knows I'm going to go into withdrawals if I do that. So it's like, I should be able to pace this. And it's still like, I still have enough time ahead to help us prepare for things and, you know, things of that sort. But it is an interesting spot. And Kyle, I have to say, I love your lanterns shirt. Do you have lantern screeners, man? Because that show has hooked me hard.

[00:54:15] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I've only seen through tonight's episode. Okay. So I will be watching with the gen pop tonight. Interesting. It's a Guy Gardner episode. Oh, man. I'm ready. But like to your point, like I got screeners of Ted Lasso, the new season. Oh. And I watched most of it. And when the first episode came out, all my friends and everyone online saw it and were like, this is garbage.

[00:54:44] This isn't Ted Lasso that we know. And I was like, no, just you got to be patient. Like, give it a couple episodes. Like, by episode four, you're going to be absolutely back into it. And they agreed. But like, there was this whole uproar until those episodes came out. Like, like John mentioned earlier. And it's like, it's hard to be in that kind of bubble of like a critic and like have the information and not be able to, you know, talk about it with other people. Because it colors your season of Ted Lasso out. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:13] Like multiple episodes of a G. Man, that's funny because I got real. Spoiler, Cameron. Not to derail too much, but I got real pissed at the last season of Ted Lasso. I was like, man, why would you do that to like a certain two characters? I'm like, this doesn't seem like them at all. What the hell is going on? So, yeah. So this happens to every show, not just Star Trek. That's good to know. No, it's all over the fandom. It's like, everyone's just like, everything is awful. Oh, everything's terrible. Like they don't give time to anything.

[00:55:42] I think it is because of how TV is now. Like you have to be the most talked about show every week or your show is going to get canceled and you have 10 episodes to do it. It's not TNG where it's like, all right, well, we'll give this a few seasons and then we'll, you know, like a few 20 plus episode seasons. Like things aren't sold into syndication at the start.

[00:56:07] Now it's like, if you have to have one company's vertical streaming app and you have to pay for it and you have to, you, if you don't love that thing, that thing will go away. And it's like, it is rough. I really, I do miss the days of ad supported television. I know that sounds insane to say, but it's like, there's a reason that model worked for so long and it still works.

[00:56:31] Like all the streamers now are going like, well, what if we had free ad supported streaming television? It's like, that is just television. That's what it used to be. Well, some of them are still, you're paying for the service and getting ads. So like, just, let's just go back then. Like if we're here already, we've circled around, let's just get back there. Let's just skip the next step. The thing I've noticed on HBO max is a thing that used to happen on TV too, where they go, uh, like this episode is presented ad free by four. Yeah. Right.

[00:56:59] And you just like two and a half, three minute Ford commercial. And then you get to watch the whole episode. I do like that on regular TV back in the day, all the time. When there was like, when there was a big TV movie event or a premiere or finale, something like that. Yeah. Presented. And you know what's infuriating about that HBO max thing that you're talking about, Jesse? Like I was watching house of the dragon, like this episode's ad free. And then as soon as the, the ad was over with, it was like an ad for the game of thrones game on iOS store. I was like, well, that's an ad. Uh huh.

[00:57:29] Like, but that's our ad. It doesn't count. Yeah. That's like all of game of thrones was released ad free, actually ad free. So what are we doing? Well, Kyle, you're always welcome to reach out to us and talk about star trick. At least those are the screen. Absolutely. Yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. And then, and Jesse, if you're into lanterns, like you said, like, like I'll, I'll, I'll talk to you about it too. Dude. I'm, I've been loving lanterns. Like I have the first appearance of Kyle Rayner and then I have the collected blackest night.

[00:57:59] I have a lot of green lantern stuff. I don't know where my ring is. It's somewhere close, but like I've always loved green lantern and it was so hard to keep loving green lantern after that Ryan Reynolds movie. Cause you had to tell people like, no, no, that's not why I like it. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. It looks great. I got, I still got to watch spider noir. So I'm, yeah, me too. Yeah. I still got to fish wonder man. So good. Oh God. Wonder man. Why did they cancel that? I'm so angry. Anyways, let's get back on topic.

[00:58:29] This is my favorite episode. I swear. So, okay. We're going to hear from at least one more caller. We do have a handful more. Okay. At the end of the season, after, after we're done with our wrap and like taking a little breather, we are, we're going to have a handful of unplayed calls from, from the last half of this season. So we're going to do something called caller chaos. And what that's going to be is I'm going to randomly number all the calls and take out any references to what episode they're talking about.

[00:58:59] And we are going to have to guess and respond as, as we play them to what episode we think they're talking about and have to try and remember. So it'll be obviously the last six episodes of the season. And, uh, yeah, we're going to do some caller chaos. I think it's going to be fun so that people's calls who don't get played on this because I love it. We're getting so many calls that we can't fit them all in, but I want to talk about them all. So yeah, we have a handful of unplayed calls from season three. I think we throw those.

[00:59:28] Yes, I think so. But I think, yeah, go back, dig out all the unplayed calls we have and just, uh, I mean, sure. Some will give it away pretty well, but I bet there'll be somewhere. It's like, oh, it was so good when this happened. Like, which one was that? But let's go ahead and hear from Steve. Hey guys, it's Steve from the Battlestage Theatrical Podcast. Maybe last week, if I hadn't gotten so ornery about taking my anger at the fandom out on calling in, I would have skipped all that.

[00:59:56] And I would have said something like, man, it's really nice to have a string of episodes where no one loses a finger. I really wish that streak had continued because it's just, no one needs to, are they trying to put the characters to the same amount of trauma that I've had? I don't need to see more fingers being lost. Is everyone going to lose a finger by the end of this season? Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode of Project Hail Mary in space. Wait a minute, Project Hail Mary was already in space.

[01:00:24] I really enjoyed this episode of Apollo 13. Dammit. I really enjoyed the episode. Steve, they just saw how cool you are and that you don't need all your fingers. They're like, hey, let's make our characters this cool. I really like that guy's voice. He's got a really good voice. For real. And that's just his speaking voice. Like, we've met him. He just sounds like that. But Steve's not the only one talking about the finger. Is finger trauma a thing? Do people get upset about fingers?

[01:00:53] Like, eye stuff bugs me, but fingers? I think because it's been so prevalent this season. Everything! We've lost ears. We've been gutted. Two fingers. Everything done banged. Una's laying in this. Someone, I've been asking the writers about this. Like, who? Something happened this season. Because Ortegas got gutted last season. And had some of her fingers melted off. Yes, yes.

[01:01:20] But other than that, there wasn't much main character trauma. This season, almost... If you count the puppets, everyone but Celia has, like, suffered a debilitating injury in real life. I mean, it would be debilitating in real life. But someone went, this is Star Trek. We can cut off people's limbs. We can hurt them in the most gruesome ways. And they'll be back next episode, at least physically fine. Like, one, I love that. Because, yes, it's Star Trek. You can do that to the characters. Let's do it. But, I mean, it's a change.

[01:01:49] And so far, the writers have been like, oh, well, you know, it made sense for this episode. No. It's been all season. Tell me who it is. It's Akiva. I'm sure it's Akiva. Yeah. I mean, as somebody who is, like, still can't feel half of one of my fingers from an injury a few years ago. And then did a little bit of finger damage to the one next to it. I'm like, all right, I'm starting to get a little sensitive to hand damage on TV here. I don't know what's been going on. But, yeah, I feel Steve's pain, not quite, like three quarters of it. Oh, sorry, Steve. Sorry.

[01:02:22] He'll appreciate that. This is the benefit of knowing your colors. Shaking their hand in person. Yeah. Fun little references like that. Shaking part of their hand. Most of it. Most of it. So, this episode, the one-liners were mentioned. The dialogue in this episode is top-notch. Commander Pelea's line of life never gave us lemons we demanded them. It's like, that is a very good line.

[01:02:52] There's so much to love in this episode. And I don't want it to come across as me saying, like, I don't like the episode. Obviously, I love the episode. It's just going to take probably another Ortegas episode to knock Terrarium off the top for me. But I think this is way up there. This might be... This is probably top three for me. Okay, I'll accept it. And I...

[01:03:17] Again, you know, I'll point to the fact that, like, so many people last season came in in episode six with, like, this is my favorite episode of the season. And it's happening again here. I like that there is such a diversity of opinions and favorites in all of Strange New Worlds. Like, Cameron, nobody picked Wedding Bell Blues last season. Like, I think it was only you. It was just me. I don't think anyone else even brought it up. No, I don't think so. You're the only...

[01:03:47] Yeah, you had to mention it to get on the list. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, that, I think, really shows the strength of this show. Like, if you're on board for the ride, you're gonna get your episode. Yeah. Right? Like, if you're willing to accept that some of the episodes aren't gonna be the ride you wanted to go on and watch them anyway, A, you're gonna find stuff in them that you like. But B, your episode is coming. It is coming.

[01:04:14] I'm very interested to see whose favorite episode airs next week. Yeah, I know. I can't say that this is gonna be my favorite episode of the series. This will definitely, again, be up in the high, but I've seen my favorite episode of the series so far. Maybe we'll get to it at some point this season. Yeah. Interesting.

[01:04:39] Yeah, it's not my favorite either of all time, but it's a definite course correction for the season and a lot of high moments, especially for travel. And even in Banga. And it's definitely in the top five for sure. I actually would argue that it is part of the course for the season. Like, it takes a lot of the stuff that's been set up and that's been happening throughout the season and puts a very scary exclamation point on it.

[01:05:08] But I think it fits absolutely as a whole with what the characters have been going through. Obviously, the genre is very different. But character arc-wise, I think this fits and I think the season has pretty clear plots for most of the characters. And that's kind of what I was referring to earlier with the whole is going to be bigger than the parts for a lot of people. The character arcs this season seem very well plotted and connected.

[01:05:37] I'm not without my faults and I will try and give the benefit of the doubt to a lot of people. And we all have our own tastes. If you didn't like episodes three and five, if you didn't like dinosaurs, if you complained and complained and complained and said you wanted a more Trek-like episode. If you don't like this episode, you're just a troll. You are just a hater. And you need to stop talking about Star Trek because I'm sorry, but you might not even be a Trekkie. I know it's like I don't get to define what a Trekkie is.

[01:06:05] But if you complained about those and said you wanted something more Trek and then you don't like this episode, you just don't like Star Trek at this point. I haven't seen many people complaining about this episode. This is the episode for those people. If anything, they use this episode to complain about the other episodes some more. And I'm like, okay, fine. Yeah, I actually really loved every episode this season in varying degrees.

[01:06:28] And when I was watching the dinosaur episode, I again, like going back to like our previous point about screeners, I was watching screeners and I messaged my like group slack. And I was like, holy shit. The first episode is fucking Star Trek with dinosaurs. Yeah. You guys are going to lose your minds. Yeah. As I've said, like that episode with trillions of deaths at the end of it, I'm like, I got a big old grin. It's like one of my feel good episodes of strange. Like what is wrong with me? Oh yeah. There's dinosaurs. There's dinosaurs.

[01:06:59] Well, and for me, like the feel good moment of this episode, I mean, there are a lot of them. They're rough to get to, but like when Scotty is in the Jeffries tube and he puts his hand on the wall and you can see the explosion. Oh God. It's like, he has faith in this machine. Some may even say of the heart, but like. He's learning. He's getting that faith in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. It's gorgeous.

[01:07:27] Like perfect distillation of who people that know Scotty, like we get to see how he became that Scotty. Right. And like, that's always been the thesis of this show. How do these characters end up as the people we know from TOS? And it's like, you don't always get it distilled to a single moment like you do with Scotty here. And I think it is very well done. And like Martin Quinn, man. Like, yeah. I mean, we can't say enough good things about him because he is such a nice guy in person.

[01:07:57] We, we interviewed our most recent actor interview. We ran into him in Star Trek Las Vegas and he was the most nice guy and super down to earth. Like he just talked to you. Like you're just a buddy of his, you've been friends for years. Like, and, and a lot of the scenes with Scotty kind of just feel like Martin Quinn being, you know, his version of Scotty. But the scenes here, when he's in that Jeffrey's tube, which they built a new Jeffrey's tube just for that sequence. I'm like, this guy can act.

[01:08:24] This guy is, this is not the guy we hung out with in Vegas. This is like a character going through stuff. This is Scotty. And it's. He's fantastic. And I'll never, never not like an opportunity of him to try to do an American accent. Yes. Yes. Again, he is a dramatic. You left him. Oh God.

[01:08:50] In the press junket last season, he did an American accent for something we were talking about. And I couldn't stop laughing. It was one of my favorite moments. I do wonder how often he gets that question. Cause the first time we had him, we're like, can we hear your American accent? Like, cause turnabout is fair play. Right. Like you had a Canadian doing a Scottish accent. Like, come on. And he was very gracious about it. But yeah, he, I mean, the guy is good.

[01:09:13] Like one of the, one of the few times an actor has recognized us yet in real life. And we were like floating for the rest of the convention. We're like, he just came up to us. He said, Hey guys, what's going on? Like he knew. That's so cool. Like, uh, yeah. And, and this episode, I think of all the episodes has been, it's interesting because it is chapel's episode, right? But it's also totally Scotty's episode. He's the B plot.

[01:09:43] Balance here is masterfully done. Yeah. I'm going to play one last call and then we'll, uh, give our closing thoughts. Here is starship. Hello. Open pike night. Uh, my wife is back. I have missed chapel so much this season and she was back with a vengeance. I loved seeing her and, and Banga's friendship on display.

[01:10:06] They have a really great special bond and I loved her just unwavering loyalty and whatever problem happened, she was going to fix it. She was so determined and she saved him. She saved the ship. Uh, I was, I was just so happy to see this much development and action from her. And we did it all without even mentioning a certain Indiana Jones wannabe that she's dating. I really hope we get more of her in the back half of the season.

[01:10:36] Uh, and it wasn't just great for her. It was a great outing for everybody. Not only is this my favorite episode of the season so far, this is definitely in my top five of the series. Maybe it can dethrone under the cloak of war as my all time favorite. We'll see. I need to sit with it for a while first. Live long and prosper guys. It will. Starship. It will. Starship has taste. Let me tell you. I completely agree.

[01:11:00] And I think the thing about the chapel of it all is like, I do sometimes wonder like, is having an ensemble, does it put constraints on the show? People talk a lot about, we really haven't had much Pike this season. And it's like, well, here's an episode where he gets to really captain it up. And chapel has absolutely been missing from a lot of the season and had not a lot to do. And it does make you wonder, is there something to be said for the Discovery approach?

[01:11:28] Not to bring up a sore subject for some people, but it's like, you know, if this was one person's story, you would get that person's entire story. And that's a big thing that I like about Discovery personally. But I think this episode shows that you really can serve all your characters in a single episode. Like, you may not be able to do that every episode, but it absolutely can be done. And I think it's done here in a really, really impressive way. Yeah. I mean, that's a great point.

[01:11:58] It's funny because Spock is the bottom of the pile in this episode. Like, like. Sure. I'm not like, he does, he does a very brave thing. It was like, if you look at everybody, like, okay, as far as who gets the most focus, I would put law on over Spock as far as, as what she does. But it's like, yeah, it is ensemble. Somebody's always got to play the smallest role. I, I think Spock would, that's where I would put him on this one and it, it works well, you know? Is he below Pike? Yes.

[01:12:25] And I think it balances because Spock has had so much to do. Yeah. Like he was probably busy. I mean, same with, yeah. Like he was probably busy. So. But his, his scenes like with the radiation burns and everything, like calling back moments of Wrath of Khan and like, he has this mind meld that La'an initiates. Like, I didn't know that was an option, but like. I mean, she, that moment, I love that moment.

[01:12:52] And because I think it's emblematic of the whole episode where like, you're watching like the traumiest trauma of court. Like he turns aside and you're like, okay, this guy too, this guy too is now totally effed up. But it's super heroic. When he coughs up that blood, it's not because he's injured. It's because he's trying to get out that he is the one who has the information to save things. And he lets La'an know, Hey, I can't lift my hand right now. I need you to do this for me. And she does. And so it's, it's the trauma, but the heroism together.

[01:13:20] It's so well played throughout the entire episode. Yeah. Cameron, that's a great point. And like, yeah, him like puking up and then like the decision to do the mind meld with La'an. And then, um, I love that, uh, the team work of it all, because after all that, they send the information to Scotty and he's completely trust Spock's, uh, mental equivalent of everything that was sent to him. He's like, well, you know, no, we're dead in a minute either way. Whatever he said is right. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[01:13:47] He's like, I, I believe everything he's saying and I'm going with it. And then Erica's got to fly the ship to where she's got to fly. I did that. I wasn't quite sure what was happening there. Like, are that the special neutrinos in a certain part of the wormhole that she's got to fly to? Okay. Sure. Sure. I'm going with it. It's fine. And then meanwhile, chapel's doing her thing. Yeah. Everyone in tandem. It's so good. Is this the scariest a wormhole has been since the motion picture? This wormhole is amazing. It's not time travel. Yeah. It's not a wormhole. It's a slipstream from a black hole.

[01:14:17] I just thought it would have been really funny if Scotty was like, she'll hold as long as she's never been almost crushed by a black hole before she'll hold and just there and be like, uh, yeah. Erica's like the one thing you didn't build a light for. Yeah. Come on, man. I mean, yeah, that was the weakest element of the episode was just the, uh, general, like, uh, premise. Like, no, it's a weird wormhole here. All this stuff's happening. Like, okay. Yeah. That's the same premise with everything.

[01:14:46] Like, yeah. I mean, my favorite episode of TNG is disaster. So I, obviously I have a type, I do love disaster movies. Uh, and then that one, I, I, I forget what it is because we made the joke like, oh, they hit a space tree. Like the ship just stops all of a sudden. Like it's always a ridiculous premise. Come on. Quantum filament. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. The quantum filament. Uh, I just, I love the, like the red, like wormhole they get sucked into. Like, obviously the neutrinos are beautiful looking too. I just, everything from top to bottom.

[01:15:15] I don't know if it, I mean, I think we're already done with references for it by this point of the season, but it definitely reminded me of the, uh, Dr. Who opening a little bit with the ship when it starts spinning into it. Oh yeah. I was like, is this another who call out or? Um. Massive who fan over here. I, I will say, I will call out Jesse. Um, hey man, you didn't give us any trivia last week. Oh. I haven't given you trivia for like three or four weeks. What the hell?

[01:15:45] Because I'm saving it. Oh, okay. All right. You're going to have to get to the end of the season and then in sequence answer those questions correctly. Yeah. But to your point, I didn't realize that until I think two weeks ago. I think we had a guess. I think that might've thrown you off. Yeah. That's gotta be what it was. Well, I mean, I like trivia. So you guys have to have me on when Jesse finally decides to like put in the work.

[01:16:12] So usually I do it the week of the episode to kind of like, cause Cameron famously not great with names. So I, that's where it came from. Um, but I, I was like, maybe, maybe this will like cut. I was, I was a little worried cause I was like, well, this is going to make people think they didn't watch the episode, but obviously we know they did and they were nailing it for the first two weeks and three weeks. I think it was tied. Yeah. You're tied because the third week was Vegas.

[01:16:42] Oh, that's right. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So I think I can be forgiven for not remembering the week. No, we did Vegas. We did Vegas cause I remember saying like, well, we don't have lag this time to, to complain about. We did a trivia question in Vegas. Yeah. Did we? It was episode four with Tom Tran. Yeah. But we missed it cause we had a guest. Yeah. I love John. Yeah. What happened? What episode did you stop giving us trivia? Yeah, there we go. We're going to turn it on you now. Episode four. Dang it.

[01:17:12] Well, speaking of guests, we have a fantastic guest this week. Kyle, fill everybody in on where they can follow you and hear more from you. Well, thanks guys. I am honored and super happy to be back. You can check out my reviews and all my teams work at lamplightreview.com. Uh, I'm also a editor and part-time critic at multiverseofcolor.com.

[01:17:37] Um, and you can follow me individually at spoon AZ on all social media spoon, like the battle cry of the tick and, uh, AZ as in the great state of Arizona. So yeah. Interact with me. Follow me. If you get screeners, you can DM me and we can talk about it. Fantastic. We really should set up a screener. Have her chat. We should like, there needs to be a screener. Slack. Yeah, for sure.

[01:18:05] I'm not done talking about this episode because the music, I mean, I've been talking about the music all season, but here specifically like. Like because there's so many different disasters happening on the ship at once. It really ties all together. And just that shot of Spock on the outside of the enterprise is an all time shot. And the music like that is like epic action film music happening there with the big brass section.

[01:18:31] Like it sounds like a disaster film and it just every, every time we move scenes in this episode, I, it was like wedding bell blues where just everything builds on each other from the previous scene. And I think that's why I love this so much. Like the music does so much to drive me forward. The editing, the split screens. I just, I mean, I don't know. It me everything for this episode because it's all so good. On the second watch, I was like, oh, this is, this is the Poseidon flipping over. This is the big disaster shot is spot crawling on the whole.

[01:18:59] Like it's like, it's not impressive to see the enterprise take damage from the outside. We see that a lot. So they had to put a character on the, the outside of the ship as it's rolling in space. And yes. And you feel how tired Spock is and you know what a Vulcan Spock is. So, you know, like the, what he is doing is exerting a lot of energy. Exhaustion as a theme is really well done in this whole episode. Like there are so many shots of one character by themselves with their eyes closed. Yeah.

[01:19:28] And just like taking a second. It's like, this would be the world's most stressful job every single day of the week. And it's nice to see some acknowledgement of that. I alluded to this earlier, but like, I really appreciated the direction in the scene at the end where Anson has a moment where he's, you know, processing everything. And then it's just silent. It's silent. And you see where everyone's at. There's no music. There's no sound effects. There's no voice.

[01:19:55] And it gives you as an audience and just an overall just gives you a moment of just sort of like, wow, this was big. And I, like, I think that hit very well emotionally. Yeah. And they use the closed eye shots to show acceptance as well. Like there's a lot of, like, there's a moment where Mbenga does it where he's like, okay, this is it. There's a moment where Scotty does it where he's like, okay, I trust the ship. And, you know, like there's a moment where a lot of characters have to accept a truth, even if they don't want to.

[01:20:25] And it shows them being able to do that with serenity and resolve. And then we see the other side of it, which is like, I am just relieved. I'm tired. I need to stop moving. Like it is one of the most human episodes of strange new worlds that we've had so far. Well, and speaking of the exhaustion, this is the third or fourth episode where the alpha crew has been desperate for time off, has been feeling overworked. Like another theme of the season.

[01:20:54] Worked them hard. Yeah. Yeah. Burned them out. Frozen. All kinds of stuff. Are they trying to tell us to stop doing three episodes per episode? I'm just, I'm relating hard. I feel it. I feel it. That's why I haven't watched. All the crameters come up on the screen. Oh, well, uh, Jesse, we had some fantastic callers tonight. I would like to thank Newman, Trev, K. Sarasara, Zoe, and Michelle.

[01:21:20] Again, your calls will end up in the caller chaos episode at the end of this season. Sorry we couldn't get to them this time, but I love having the problem of having so many great callers. Jesse, how, like Steph, can new callers, uh, get their voices on the podcast? Well, I'm glad you asked, John, because it's very easy. And before we get there, I do want to say, was it Trev that sent in two calls? One that was like a response to a question I had asked him? Newman did. Newman, okay.

[01:21:48] And I do want to say before we get there, Newman, I am going to be listening personally to your response to the question I had asked you last week. But if you want to be a caller, if you're new, if you're returning, the easiest way to do that is to go to openpike.com. You can record your message right there on the website. All you need is a phone. Or if you'd like to record an MP3, edit some pieces out, put some other things together, and then send that to openpike at gmail.com, you can get a hold of us that way too.

[01:22:16] Also, highly recommend you follow us on Instagram and join our Discord so that you can have discussions with the larger Open Pike Night crew. And if you would like to hear me make a very subtle reference to this week's episode, you can go ahead and listen to our guest spot on the Poly Amateur Hour podcast where we did a, what is it? Booty roster? Starfleet booty roster. Starfleet booty roster where we had to pick some romantic partners from the Strange New Worlds cast.

[01:22:46] And crew. Crew. Crew. Characters. Characters. Specifically. Can't let those. Yeah. But not, but I did make a reference to when somebody picked Pelly. I was like, so you're basically her pet. And I was like, oh, nice. Shout out there for 406. But still go listen to that episode. It was a ton of fun. Yeah. Loved hanging out with the Poly Amateurs in Las Vegas. Get a little peek at our Vegas antics. Yeah. Yeah. Very good show. Jesse, your voice is amazing.

[01:23:16] All it takes is like consecutive nights of karaoke drinking and possibly a cigar. And. Yeah. I always call it the San Elliot voice after a long night. Like my voice is like three octaves deeper. And I'm just like, of course, the banquet. Well, it's been a long night and the open Pike Night crew. Ah, screw it. We'll clean up later. There will always be a morning after. Right? So be sure to clean up after yourselves.

[01:23:46] That's a Poseidon Adventure reference. Go watch the Poseidon Adventure. Oh man. That was, that was slick. Thank you. Be sure to clean up after yourselves. Be sure to tip your servers. You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here. Oscar nominated song. Oscar winning song. Oh shit. How many of you remember that? Not in this audience. Yeah.