SNW S4E9 - "Once La'an a Time"

[00:00:09] Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds Podcast where your calls are the prime directive.

[00:00:33] I'm your host, Jesse T. Bailey, here tonight to discuss Strange New Worlds Season 4, Episode 9, Once La'an a Time. Join us tonight as we look at an episode that could be universally loved but maybe isn't. You may have noticed that Producer John couldn't be here tonight. He stayed home to fly our own flat earth ship back to where it came from.

[00:00:58] Where is that? Nobody knows. Joining me tonight is my co-host, the man who always has his Renaissance Fair costume ready to go and recently worn, host of Green Shirt, A Newbies Trek Through The Next Generation, Cameron Harrison. Don't be such a tally-ho, Jesse. Oh, how dare you? And now that she has canceled her appearance on Ed Sheeran's tour, she's free to return to the Open Pike Night stage,

[00:01:24] actor, comedian, and fellow Star Trek podcast host, one of the hosts of Treks in the City, Alice Wetterlund. Hello, welcome back to me. Oh my God. I'm so already lost with your in-jokes and your references and I really need to be, I really need to catch up on my Open Pike episodes. Hello, everybody. Thank you guys for having me back. I love being on this show.

[00:01:47] It's a pleasure to have you. We try to borrow some comedic talent whenever we can because, you know... I love it. We call ourselves a comedy podcast. We have the theming, but like, we're not out here pretending to be professionals. We're just pretty good. Yeah. And I really appreciate how much you interact with fans and answer their calls. And I mean, Treks in the City is a different kind of show. We are fan tolerant is how we would describe it. I really appreciate it.

[00:02:16] I feel very tolerated when I talk to you, yes. Yes. And I think it's a great word. I feel like you guys are almost my brother podcast to the sister podcast. We're much more... We're here to... If you get too much love from Open Pike, come on over to Treks in the City and get a little abuse. We'll take you down a peg. But please, please rate us five stars. Anyway, thank you for having me.

[00:02:38] Absolutely. So I have to say here, this episode should have been tailor-made for me. Like, this is the episode I've been waiting for. I think it's really cool that Strange New Worlds finally went back to a thing they established. Like, if you listen to our coverage of season one, I was like, oh, these Mahani fate comets are totally gonna come back. And of course they don't.

[00:03:07] And for them to go back to the Elysian Kingdom, which is one of my favorite episodes. I think Cam was your favorite episode of the first season. Oh, for a long time. Yeah. And to have me come out of it kind of lukewarm is just really upsetting for me. Like, I really like this episode. There's a lot great about it. Performances, very good. Costuming, over the top, very amazing. Tons of fun.

[00:03:33] I had a lot of fun with the episode. And on my first watch, I was like, that was great. And then like 30 minutes later, I was like, but wait a minute. And I think we're gonna get into the but wait a minute. Yeah. But Cameron, what was your initial reaction to this? My well, I I've known that there's an Elysian Kingdom sequel coming since my set visit. So I've been keeping it bottled inside like a giddy little genie. And yes, I like you have have been awaiting it.

[00:04:00] And the first 10 minutes, I was just staring slack jawed. And then I thoroughly enjoyed 80% of it loved that 80%. And then the end was like, Okay, that's there's some interesting stuff here. Back and forth. So I liked it a little more the second time, like my initial reaction was I was I dumped a lot in those initial logic jumps. And I have theories we'll get into. But yeah, that's that's my reaction.

[00:04:25] I think I can come back to this one and have a good time a lot. But it's gonna not be a favorite. Yeah, I'll definitely be going back to it. And I'll be watching it in concert with Elysian Kingdom. Alice, what about you? What was your initial reaction to this? I'll be watching it in concert at the Hollywood Bowl. Alice, I have a different reaction to the going back to the Elysian Kingdom because I did love it.

[00:04:51] I love this idea of a nebula being like, how can I help? Let's just because it's so it's so cute. But it's so like you is really selfish. And this nebula is like, let me do my best. And it's sort of godlike. And I love that the spirituality angle that Star Trek often tackles.

[00:05:10] So I in that vein, like it can feel a little ham handed for a modern show to go into like the sort of emotional well being morality. You know, just jumping in and like mental health is important train. But that is what I love so much about my favorite series TNG.

[00:05:34] So I really love this episode. And I I feel like, Jesse, you have maybe had some expectations around this episode that maybe marred your experience going into it because I didn't really have that same thing. I was like, we're going to see a space dragon and expectations. And then when I got what else I got, I have to say, this episode is tailor made for me in a completely different way. So we'll get into that.

[00:06:03] I'm very excited to hear that. And I think you're probably not incorrect on your guess at my feelings here. I do. I do have some but but wait a minute, too. But that and I want to get this out of the way right now. After my first watch of this episode, I sat down for three days and designed a shirt based on this episode because I was so in love with it.

[00:06:28] And it really made me like Pellia's comment about this should be painted on the side of a van. Right. I was like, oh, she's right. This is prime 80s power metal fantasy territory. So I created a band shirt for Talia and the Slayers. They're on the Iron Dragon tour. That'll be on our merch store soon. I had a ton of fun with it. And I again, I don't want it to come across that. I hated this episode because I didn't.

[00:06:56] But let's go ahead and jump into this week's calls because I'm sure they'll give me plenty of opportunities to talk about how I feel. Let's start off with Lieutenant Lucy. I love this episode. Maybe not my favorite of the seasonal series, but I loved it. I loved it more than the Ulysian Kingdom, notwithstanding the absence of the lovely Hema and the Rakuya's plotline. Anson Mount, Carol Kane, Ethan Peck and Chrissy Chung were exceptional. They were so funny.

[00:07:25] Their delivery was perfect. Everything from Ethan Peck's, not what I would have surmised when he was told he had to become the magician Pollock. Anson Mount's, flawless. Sans flaw. I just, I mean, it was amazing. Carol Kane's, not Larn. The timing was perfect. It was just so funny. Yes, could I have driven a coach in horses through the plot and why the hell they were there?

[00:07:52] And why the hell the bridge crew didn't cotton on to Pike and Spock's behavior sooner? Of course I could. But then the dragon breathed fire over the saucer section of the Enterprise. Oh, Enterprise. And the clam device. I mean, it was just amazing. There's something I love also about their exploration of the shadow selves. There's something that they're doing around dreamlike states, our subconsciously exploring of memories in this season four. I'm curious to see where that goes.

[00:08:22] And they keep bringing up language that they used in Among the Lotus Eaters about finding lost memories. So, yeah, curious about all of that. Loved it. I'm not going to nitpick. We've only got seven episodes left. It was brilliant. Magic clam. One of the best jokes. Yeah. Of Star Trek. And I'm really glad you brought up the necklace containing the memories thing, too.

[00:08:47] Because this is at least the second time Strange New Worlds has had to have a character say, like, oh, I, you know, there's a place physically holding my memories and I need to go back and get it. And I think they've gotten around the absurdity of that both times. Like, here you have La'an kind of doing it as a ruse. And previously you had Anson Mount doing it with, like, such sincerity and force of performance that it just worked, right?

[00:09:15] Because it is silly to, like, give us back our memories. I hadn't made that connection with Among the Lotus Eaters. I like that. That's nice. Yeah. And I was very interested about this two halves of the self thing. I hadn't initially read the characters that way in Elysian Kingdom because it was, like, these are opposite character types for the most part, right? And some of the characters stay closer to where they come from.

[00:09:41] But, like, I think that that is definitely part of this. And you did mention Mbenga and Rukia, and I'm sure other people will mention that, so I'll leave that alone for now. But you're absolutely right. You got a dragon breathing fire onto the shields. Like, cool. I'm happy. Sign me up. Yeah. I saw some people online complaining about a dragon flapping its wings in space. And I'm like, one, we don't know how far the atmosphere goes. Two, shut up. I'm watching this. I'm loving it.

[00:10:15] The fact that it can't orient itself to the ground. Right. Yes. As Alter Captain pointed out. So I feel like, also, once the premise is locked in and it's a Q-esque entity that can manipulate everything, why is space dragon a problem? Right. Right.

[00:10:37] Like, you know, I would say, like, the more pertinent, like, the ship's crew not being able to understand why, like, or clock the strange behavior. If this crew is, as we have come to understand, so, they know each other so well, why are they not, you know, why is Una, like, not immediately? Like, okay, well, the captain's obviously mentally impaired. Well, they know there's doppelgangers down there. Yes. True. Like, why didn't they immediately see that that's who it is?

[00:11:06] But I also want to point out the shadow self stuff is, it's a direct Jungian concept that they're exploring. And that is brought to our attention by the, you know, I think, doesn't Pelleya say something like Jung immediately, like, in the beginning? Like, we pointed out, like, this is a Jungian episode. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:30] You know, and this nebula is using those theories and extrapolating into whatever, like, it's sort of like AI. Like, it reads all of our, you know, our history to use in this storyline that it creates. So, I think that was what was going on. It was, like, not even subtext. It was, like, the text. Right. Okay, we're doing Jung shadow cells. And Pelleya clocks it. Carol Kane is telling you this is what's going on, you know. And I think as far as logic goes, that makes sense.

[00:12:00] Yeah. And I think they've kind of been doing that a lot this season. We've talked about it before. Like, it seems like there's very little subtext this season and a lot of text and a lot of, like, Spock has said multiple times, like, hey, don't think about this. Like, it's contrived and we know that and it's okay. And I think that that's because they know media literacy is down. And also, they've probably been told, like, hey, you need to explicitly state certain things. Like, the whole second screen argument we've had many times.

[00:12:29] We don't have to have it again. But, yeah, I didn't really have any problems with, like, how everything worked. Like, again, I was just happy to be here. The problems I had were more character specific. Well, just speaking of characters real quick, because I'm not sure if anyone else brought up Himmer. And it did seem like a perfect opportunity to bring Bruce Horax Himmer back in some way. I guess I'm sure it was either A, scheduling conflicts.

[00:12:58] They wanted to and they couldn't or B, they thought bringing Him back might get in the way of La'an's storyline. Because they kind of put a lot to the side to focus on her in this episode. So I'm just, I'm surmising those were the reasons we didn't see Him this time around. I'm hoping with scheduling. And I think there was a lot to do in this episode. I feel like they got a lot done. Even with the, like, a lot of, not a lot of subtext that we are talking about right now. I do still think there was a ton of subtext.

[00:13:27] It just wasn't the subtext of the, we weren't exploring the moral of the show or the premise of the show in a very subtext-y way. But there was subtext beyond that with, I think, like, the hitting, like, there's jokes that I didn't catch. I know this. And I could go back and watch and get some of them, I feel like, on a rewatch. I did watch this episode on my phone. Sometimes you've got to do that.

[00:13:56] But were you on a second phone? Yeah, as James Cameron intended. As Christopher Nolan intended. As David Lynch adores people to do. Yeah. Yeah. I watched it on my T-Mobile flip, I think. The way, yeah. My Nokia N-Gage. But I think you're right, Alice. My Sony Air. I think you're right. In general, the subtext tends to be kind of more character-based for this show.

[00:14:23] Because that's what you're tracking episode to episode, right? Because the plots are much more episodic. And the characters are a little more serialized. Yeah. And each character's shadow, I think, in this episode, although we're really following La'Anne's character journey with her shadow self and the parts of her. And embracing the dark and the light. That was text. That was not at all hard to figure out. If you're watching on your phone, I can tell you that.

[00:14:52] But then I will say a lot of the character choices for the love relationship between Una's shadow and Sir. Like those characters having a love relationship. Definitely Mbenga's shadow character. Like you could, I'm sure that there was a reason for those choices. You know, everybody having those different characters.

[00:15:19] And based on where they've been throughout the season. And so I think that's interesting, too, on a rewatch. Yeah, we can talk more about that. I think some people bring up those aspects. But Lucy loved the episode. Let's hear what Sarah thought of it. Hi, Open Pike Night. It's Sarah slash dog. Well, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes and chew glass than ever watch that again. I hated it. And I don't do that. I mean, I'm never emotionally, you know, against any Strange New Worlds. Except that one.

[00:15:48] I really hated it. The only thing that allowed me to survive was the Miracle Max reference. And the kiss. I mean, yes, that was the best kiss. Yeah, but oh my God. God, I'm going off now to stick pins under my fingernails. Thanks, guys. That's visceral. There's a Count Rugen pain tolerance joke here somewhere. It's got to be. Yeah.

[00:16:18] I just want to point out that I asked Dan Liu if Carol Kane made any Princess Bride references when she was talking about Scotty being a miracle worker in episode six. And he looked at me like I was crazy. No, she would never do that. We would never do that. And here they are writing her character seemingly out of the show with a Princess Bride reference. Yeah. It was maybe he was trying to throw you off. Like we know the folks behind the show like to throw throw folks off sometimes.

[00:16:44] So, yeah, I mean, I'm definitely somewhere between Lucy and Sarah. But this is one of those instances where like Sarah, I get it. Like I'm not I'm not going to hurt myself about it. But like that's a real that's a real reaction. Right. Like I fully understand where you're coming from.

[00:17:07] And I think the thing about the kiss is that like some of us have been waiting for that kiss for three years. Right. Like they totally like hinted around this relationship in the Elysian kingdom. And like they said, it was there, but you didn't really see much indication of that. And maybe again, that was a time thing. But I'm glad they took the time to include it here. And I liked that little kind of subplot with those two characters.

[00:17:36] I did my first reaction to seeing Jim Kirk in the fantasy world was like, oh, hello. First of all, I was like, is that Chris Pine? Jesse, well, let's wait. Let's wait till someone brings up Jim Kirk. But yeah, I just I'm this is kind of what I expected and what I've been seeing to the reactions for this episode. There's a lot of people absolutely in love with it and a lot of people absolutely not in love with it. I thought it was like a Carrie Elway's Princess Bride mode. Oh, yeah.

[00:18:06] The mask came. Yeah. Yeah. When the mask came, I was like, which is going along with my theory that there is a very deliberate or. Maybe it's not deliberate and it's just happening, but it's very satisfying either way, where there is a specific like straight female gaze.

[00:18:29] I think it's just like a lot of the episodes, like in terms of how we have cast Spock in the many love relationships as Ethan Peck plays. You know, this heart throbby Spock is just so different than, you know, how Spock has been portrayed in the past. And it's like that is something that developed out of what was going on with actual fans like female straight female fans reacting to the original series.

[00:19:27] But I'm also seeing a little bit of like a Sarah J. Moss. Oh, interesting. I mean, there is stuff. Isn't there a reference about like dragons and romance or someone says something that I was wondering if it was a romantic to see reference? Yeah. My wife reads. I haven't read it yet, but I'm well versed with the love for those books. It is interesting. It's almost like Spock was cast to perception rather than like to match what Leonard Nimoy looks like.

[00:19:55] Like that's that's a really interesting thing. I don't think we discussed that. But I mean, you're right that there's a lot of straight guys. We haven't like anime eyes version. There's a lot to support that, especially this season. Like, I mean, what, two episodes ago we had Ethan Peck in very tight leather pants being shot in a very specific way, like open shirt, long hair. I mean, I think you're onto something there, Alice.

[00:20:22] Well, and not just the straight female gaze, although maybe we just finally passed that because there was a lot of talk about the kiss. Let's hear from Val. Hey, open pike knight. This is Val. I will admit I was a little iffy on how rushed the plot felt while watching. But as hindsight often works, it has really grown on me. I happened to watch the two part Star Trek Enterprise Mirror Universe episodes the day after this, and it made me realize that this is Strange New Worlds Mirror Universe, or as much of that as we're going to get.

[00:20:49] Though in this case, our crew is apparently the shadow version to those on the planet. As a viewer, it gave us the opportunity to see our characters as different versions of themselves, which is always a delight, while also giving the crew a chance to finally experience their mirrors as well, which we missed out on in season one for most of them. And it finally gave me what I was hoping for since season one, our first queer kiss.

[00:21:11] I will admit that when we first saw the Crimson Guard characters in the preview for the season, I was hoping that they'd bring back Adya and Zymera, and they 100% gave me what I wanted. Nice. Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. We're going to hear a lot about the kiss, but I'm pretty sure only from the female callers, not a lot of guys calling in about the girl-girl kiss. Yes. It's almost... What's the word for it?

[00:21:34] It's like they didn't really make a big deal out of it being a same-sex kiss, other than knowing, we would like to see this, please. You kind of promised that we would get this at some point. So it's almost like... Because I know when DS9 does it, everybody points to that as like, well, look, they did it here, and DS9, I think, was doing it very pointedly. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's almost like...

[00:21:59] I've talked before about the all-female Avengers scene in Avengers, where I was like, come on, even the girls in the crowd are like, what are we doing here? Right, right, right. This is a little forced. And this just felt correct, like this is the scene you would have here. Yeah. I absolutely like that. And I will ask here, did Zymera's name get spoken in this episode? Or did you just have to remember that? I think she introduces her once. Like... That's true.

[00:22:29] It's possible that I missed it. I just, there were a lot of things, sort of like, has happened before in this season, where like the previously on Star Trek does a lot of heavy lifting. Yeah. And it's like... Yes, that's true. This might be the first episode where if you haven't seen that episode, a lot of this is going to just kind of fly right past you. Oh, I have thoughts on that. Yeah. But I also have thoughts on Val's pointing out that perhaps the Elysian Kingdom world is Strange New World's mirror universe. I love that idea.

[00:22:58] And I think there's a lot of truth to it. Obviously, you know, we were talking, they're not all exact shadow selves. Because Adia and Ortega, I guess, are clearly pretty close. Zymera and Una are not exactly polar opposites. I think like them in this episode are not meant to be shadow selves. They're just carrying forth from the Elysian Kingdom, which again, wasn't... Was crafted more just to put these characters in fun places than to really delve into the youngness of it all. But... Right.

[00:23:27] What I mean, like, but isn't... Ortega is a queer character, so... We presume. Right? It has not been canonically spoken in the series. Well, okay. No, the one character canonically that is queer is Chapel. Correct. And they didn't have that. But it feels like... Yeah, it feels... So I went to this Dragon Con panel, Queerness in Star Trek, which was like mind-blowing.

[00:23:52] And there was a lot of talk about how Strange New Worlds is kind of afraid of queer... It's queerness. Like it puts stuff and then it just like really dances around it. And like little Easter eggs here and there. So I wonder the reaction that, you know, fandom is going to have with this... This finally like having throwing a kiss into... It feels a little late, you know? Sure. I think for a lot of people.

[00:24:22] But I'm still glad it happened. Yeah. I don't know if it's totally subtext with those characters because you can see it as a romantic entanglement. But you can also see it as an embrace of a part of themselves that they, you know, stepping into sort of... Mm-hmm. I don't know. Some sort of emotional empowerment or something. Yeah. Ortegas and Una have had a little bit of a hot and cold relationship, you know, on the bridge outside of these characters too.

[00:24:51] So now there's something there. And there's like big grudging respect, but like they operate in different ways. Una's fairy by the book. Ortegas is fly by the seat of her pants. I'm starting to get convinced. Una's by the book when it benefits her. Well, yeah. We're going to kind of talk about that later too. But yeah, no, it really felt like Stranger World Season 1 really felt like it was leaning into those progressive ideas. Like, yeah, chapel's by Ortegas.

[00:25:19] Looks like, you know, we're not going to delve into it yet, but she might be queer. We've got a transgender character. And then, yeah, Season 2 on, they kind of shied away from it. So I was happy to see this here. I was happy to see it here. I want to see more of it, but, you know, I don't necessarily think it needs to be like people's romantic entanglements is the only place you can demonstrate a character's queerness.

[00:25:42] There's a lot of different, like, just different, you know, relationships to oneself and one's identity that haven't been, have only really been hinted at and not explored. So, yeah, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. Oh, yeah. And I do really like this idea of Stranger World's mirror universe being the Elysian Kingdom.

[00:26:05] It's interesting that it's the first mirror universe where people put on more clothing than they would normally wear, as opposed to how, for example, Enterprise treated the mirror universe. Still lots of gold. Oh, and the clothing was so great. Oh, my God. I loved it. We have been saying for four years, somebody give Bernadette Croft an Emmy. And, like, if this does not get her over the hump. Whole season.

[00:26:34] Like, after episode four, I was like, we got to have Bernadette Croft come on. This has got to be the big costume episode. No, we've had, like, three other great costume episodes since then. Yeah. It's really stunning. Any show that she works on or movie that she works on from here on out is going to be incredibly fortunate to have her.

[00:26:52] Like, I think she is absolutely a standout talent, especially right now when it's like you have so many shows where you can't even really see the costuming on the characters or it's, you know, contemporary and they're just wearing whatever. It's like, here is a person who is giving life to the costume nerds of the world. And the challenge of being on a costume show, like a costume or on a show where the costuming has to be seen.

[00:27:21] It's not something where it can be, like, in the background where it's like this is a supporting role. In a lot of ways, I feel like the costuming on this show, at least episode, at least, is more consistent than the dialogue. I mean, you're not wrong. All right, let's hear from Neil. Hi, OpenPikeNight. This is Neil. I am calling to talk about Kirk because I'm wondering if Kirk has unlimited PTO or if that's just how it is on Starfleet. Thank you.

[00:27:51] Because he's first officer on the Farragut, but he just kind of keeps going off and doing his own thing. I'm really wondering, has he just been secretly fired from the Farragut and he's dropping off his resume on the Enterprise and, you know, going on dates with tactical officers and all that? I really wonder what's going on there.

[00:28:12] Also, I just want to point out that there's a high probability that now Kirk and Spock have both gotten on with the great, great, great, great granddaughter of their soon-to-be arch nemesis. Fun little headcanon there. Anyway, I enjoyed the show. Not headcanon. I think that's now canon canon. More like getting headcanon. Hey! Hey! Hey! That's why you brought me here. Talk about terminal gays. All right, I'll leave now.

[00:28:42] What I'm here to say. Yeah, my headcanon, speaking of that, is just that we know Kirk is a backseat captain and the Farragut's captain's like, yes, please, go visit the Enterprise. Whatever. I think he's absolutely quiet quitting the Farragut. He's like, oh, no, there's a thing I have to do on this other ship for real reasons. I totally have to be there. I really want to see an episode on the Farragut where nothing happens. Right. You're like, raise shields. Why? Just because we want to test the shields. We're bored.

[00:29:12] Nothing happens. We don't do anything. And this is one of the instances where the whole time I'm ready to forgive it because I'm like, oh, well, it's an alternate reality that was created from memories and a storybook. But he was not there in the first Elysian Kingdom episode. So why is he here now? Okay. Do we want to talk about that? And then he is on the ship at the end of the episode. I know. What is happening? I don't know if we need that. We'll talk more about that.

[00:29:42] Okay. Talk about it now. Well, that is something I don't understand. So this Elysian Kingdom is a set group of people. So in season one, there was, I mean, you've seen it, but probably four or five years ago that there's the nebula befriended Rukia who was in the transporter and she told it the story. And so it brought the story to life using the people on the Enterprise at the time.

[00:30:08] What it did not do was pull Mbenga's emotions and bring them to life to allow him to face it. That is not what happened in the Elysian Kingdom, though he says that's what happened here. And then he assumes this place is doing that to La'an, which just seems like a huge assumption to make based on what they know so far. That's one of the parts of this introduction to this episode that I do not understand. Anytime they use the word somehow, it's like, okay. Yeah. He did say, he's like, this happened somehow. Yeah. And it's.

[00:30:38] Okay. We should probably figure out how. It's like our job. We have science officers. It raises so many. Main purpose. I think fair questions, right? Like, okay. So. Run fair questions. Did they. Hey, up top. Did they fly through the nebula on the way here and not know it? No. Like, that's what I'm saying. Because like, where does Kirk come from? Maybe the nebula has various locations. This is my. It's like an outpost. It's like a pop-up nebula. Influencers. This is my theory. This is.

[00:31:06] Come with me as we destroy. A floating disc world that they stumbled across conveniently. They just happened to stumble across this floating disc world. I. And Benga has this one line. Rukia is no longer there. While Rukia is gone from there. Yada, yada, yada, yada. What? How do we know that? We have not established. What are you. Rukia was ever here. This is not the nebula. This is not what happened before. I'm. I think there's some deleted scenes.

[00:31:33] I think that this place, while Rukia was a child, was created by Deb the Neb. And then once she grew up, basically her Castle Grayskull and somehow sentient plaything dolls are now just left adrift in space. And that's, I think, what this was. And it's just like a remnant from their time. But that is not explored or explained in this episode at all. And then it's said that it's a ship, which then just further confuses everything. Well, and.

[00:32:02] I thought it was like a, like a, like an entity that could read, maybe not thoughts. But like have a little bit of, a little bit of beta said, but a little bit of like. It is. You know, maybe some, it knows what has actually happened. It is and does. But Mbenga states Rukia is not here. And presumably neither is the nebula. The Boltzmann brain, Deborah, the nebula, Rukia, all one in the same. It's a, it's a very Holy Ghost sort of thing. But like. Okay.

[00:32:31] He explicitly says she's not here. That makes me ask, okay, then where did Kirk come from? Right. Because she didn't meet Kirk. Because he then said, look, Star Trek is full of the characters just guessing and telling the audience like, this is what's going on. And so he guesses. Yeah. That somehow this leftover play set is now reading La'Anne's mind arbitrarily and pulling a love intro. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't make any sense.

[00:33:00] What we're seeing is from the perspective, like this is where you got to think about the viewer having its own power in terms of like, say Star Trek is telling us a story. The viewer in this, if we're getting really philosophical, has their own. We have, they're giving us our own version of what's going on. Like, I feel like sometimes Star Trek will do this thing where this is a shorthand.

[00:33:29] The reason this looks like this isn't because it actually does look like this. It's because our, like our vision of what's going on, it's a shorthand to describe what, does that make sense at all? Like, it's like, here's what we would see because we know La'Anne has feelings for this person. So we're seeing what the nebula. No, she's saying the nebula read our minds and put that.

[00:33:57] No, I'm kind of saying like the nebula is doing something crazy to the, our characters right now and putting them in this and explore it. And like, it's delving into maybe established text that actually things have happened. Right. So like, you know, and then it's giving them this experience like a mushroom trip. Right. Well, if you show a mushroom trip on TV, you have to shorthand a lot of stuff. You know, ooh, things look wee-wee-wee-wee.

[00:34:26] But that's not what it actually feels like for the characters that are going through it. But we have to see something. Yeah. I mean, if that's what it takes, Alice. Look, I'll go to great lengths. Well, and I don't hate that. It's just having an explicit line where he says the nebula is not involved. It's like, okay, then can we please have a mechanism? Like something. Maybe he signed an NDA with the nebula. Which is fine.

[00:34:55] I'm kind of, I kind of like the idea of like, yeah, this was created for Rukia when she was a child. But because of timey-wimey stuff, she has already grown up and it's already adrift in space and they stumble across it. I'll go with that. She grew up in the first one. Rukia also, why is she, if she's been absorbed, right, into the Boltzmann brain, why is she then not allowed to like watch what happens on, in like, you know, in a condensed way or

[00:35:24] whatever, however the Boltzmann brain sees it, what has happened throughout, after she's now, she's not around. She didn't meet Kirk, but the Boltzmann brain could have met Kirk because the Boltzmann brain is a roving, presumably outside of our own timeline. It doesn't exist. It's like the prophets. I mean, that's confirmed in the first episode. In DS9. Yeah. So. But Cameron, Rukia grew up in the Elysian kingdom. Well, yeah.

[00:35:52] And I see where you're coming from, like with the time difference in the compression. It's fine. Right? Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. I just, I cannot, like for me, and this is, this is another running thing on Open Pike Night. Why did we take Mbenga's plot and give it to La'an? Like I'm, I'm, this is his source of catharsis.

[00:36:17] His, his like greatest pain when, and he's a guy with a lot of pain and it's like to just say, well, it's resolved after the Elysian kingdom is a, I think kind of a short shrift and B then why this mechanism for a La'an story? Again, I like the episode. Because we want to play these characters again. I like the episode. Maybe an easier way to do it would have been to say, Hey, I'm Mbenga. This happened to me. Maybe it's something similar.

[00:36:47] You should look into it. Just put Rukia in it for five seconds. Like she's telling her, she's telling Mbenga, Hey, you've got more to work through. You're not going to get to do that. Cause they're going to put you in a painting, but like, you've got more to work through. And then it's easy to go, Oh, she's trying to help everybody heal from these things. Right? So I, I feel like you're trying to take my fun costumes. I mean, I think that probably goes into like, this is La'an story.

[00:37:12] We've already seen Mbenga deal with his emotions with these, these, the sandbox. Let's move on. So I, I, you know, I don't disagree that maybe they could have found something there for him. Obviously they juggle a lot in a lot of episodes. I, it definitely feels weird that he is so blase when he's chiming down. He's like, so Rukia, my long loss, dead, sort of dead, not dead daughters, not there. But then this happened and this happened and the other is like, did you, did you find the

[00:37:42] cure for grumpiness that they were talking about? Cause you seem really stoned right now. I do. I will say I'm very glad he finally got to go fishing again. Sure. I mean, happy to see him enjoying himself. But what's up with King Ridley though? Like why is King Ridley just fishing and his, again, I think that's another name that does not get mentioned in this episode. And it's like, are you still a King? Are you just hanging out now? Like, I don't know. I just, they mentioned it once. Cause I was wondering if it was even the same character, but so this is, cause again, I feel

[00:38:11] like the first 10 minutes of this, I felt really weird. And someone had mentioned the episode felt rushed. And for me, like that first 10 minutes felt rushed. It felt like a lot of times when you watch a movie adaptation of a book and they just like blazed through the first third of the book that it felt like that to me. And then it also felt like a lot of the dialogue felt like someone had said, make this for someone who's never seen the Elysian kingdom. Right. Cause there's a lot of things. Yeah. Well, yeah. I feel like someone came in after the fact and said, rewrite the first 10 minutes, make

[00:38:40] it so someone who's never seen another episode of strange new worlds can follow. Maybe that is what they're doing. I, I, I just recently recapped the puppet episode on tracks because I was responding to the response and I was like, we should, we're a track, we're a Star Trek podcast. Aren't we? We ask that every week and we're like, we should talk about this. I want to talk about the response this episode is getting.

[00:39:06] And so we watched it and Skylar, my cohost has not watched strange new worlds. He has not seen any of it cause he hasn't barely seen the original series. And so we're just going episode by episode. We did TNG and now we're doing DS nine. So he's really just a new and he's like, I loved it. It was great. I had no problem with it at all. I thought it was amazing with the puppet episode. So like not lacking all the context was really helpful for him in the viewing experience.

[00:39:32] And me, I lacked a ton of contents cause I have no memory retention for things, you know? And that's one reason people get frustrated with me as a Star Trek podcaster. So like, why don't you know what this is? And I was like, well, I can't remember what day it is. So that's part of that. I have, I have early onset dementia that started when I was born. And so, uh, I just don't remember things and everything. I'm a goldfish. I mean, you were literally swimming in a bowl right now, Alice. So, but yeah, to the point that they even kind of retcon some of it, like, like, and

[00:40:02] Bing explains in this episode, everyone learns what happened in the leasing kingdom. But at the end of the leasing kingdom, it's heavily implied he tells at least Una what happened. And again, Una's a rule follower. She's going to tell at least Pike. Like they would have found out about this by now. So a lot of that early stuff felt a little jarring to me. I was like, oh, you're just handholding some people through this. Okay. But Alice, as a person with less context, how did it, how did it work for you? Like, did you, was it just functional?

[00:40:31] I, I, I probably would be bothered if I had, you know, remembered those specifics of the leasing. But I also have this, I mean, I just really appreciated what they were trying to do. And I thought they accomplished much of what they were trying to do. And I really, I don't know, I'm just, I'm a lot more roll with the punches for certain things in Strange New Worlds because I know they're not going to, I kind of also have this

[00:40:58] feeling that Strange New Worlds is doing this thing that I've now come to appreciate the people who enter their version of events into the Star Trek canon, which is sort of like what I think maybe the, the movies did when they had the, the Chris Pine movies. Who was that at Abram? TJ Abrams.

[00:41:24] Charles, TJ, TJ Abrams where the first movie was, TJ Maxx was like, hey, how about this first scene? Fuck the prime directive. What if that's what we do? What if the first scene is fuck the prime directive? And I was so mad. And now I'm just sort of like, oh, I P I think people set their tone and they say, this is what we want to do. You can get on board or not. And I like that freedom. And I also, I like them doing these gimmick episodes over and over because that's been this huge complaint. It's so much gimmick. It's so much gimmick.

[00:41:54] And I almost, I'm like, yeah, the contrarian in me is like, stick it to them harder, stick it to them harder, harder, you know, drive it in because it's almost like trolling that part of the fandom, like, hey, give up. Like, that's been my refrain. It's like, give up this, like, you know, this need to control and manage what the Star Trek world and what Star Trek is because you won't be able to enjoy what we can do,

[00:42:22] which is like, if you need all this stuff to be set right, you're going to lose space dragon. Yeah. Right. You might not get to have space dragon, you know? And like, I think people think that's destroying the Star Trek universe. And it's like, well, let's see. But I don't know that it is necessarily. I don't know that like what we're putting out there and not like the things that we are

[00:42:44] not doing correctly, like really maintaining consistency with what the Boltzmann brain does. That just means that later on, if somebody has a more serious take on it, they don't need to respect those things. You know, if somebody does a more serious, um, uh, canon, canon worthy, um, by the book Bible study version, they don't need to take everything into account because it's like,

[00:43:13] they just need to get, you know, just the facts and have their version of it and establish like true canon. I think that's, that's possible. This shows just maybe a little more silly. Well, and I, I appreciate that because like, I am fully on the record as yes. Take the swings. Like I'm, I loved the puppet episode. I've loved every episode this season. There's never been an episode where I'm like, this is not the one for me. The soap opera hit me a little bumpy.

[00:43:40] Um, I didn't like the musical episode, but so we've got, we've got, yeah, a lot of people loved it. But I think looking at it from that perspective of like, to your point, nobody's going to be like, well, we do have to respect the canon of the puppet episode. Like that's just never going to happen in a future Star Trek series. Right. Right. Unless we want to. And then if that person has the wherewithal to explore it in a very Star Trek way, they can write that. They can write to that.

[00:44:08] To your point, the thing that is definitely bumping me here is that it's them. Like this is the same writer as the Elysian kingdom. Right. So the choices were just, and, and I really wish we had an interview with her and I, I think we're still working on an interview with her. It just, I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and say like, this is the wrong version. I just have questions. And I, and I, I would, I'm going to scream them into the void. Sure. Totally valid. Yes.

[00:44:38] I appreciate that. Fair. Much like our callers do. Let's hear from Newman, the space hippie. Newman, the space hippie movies, four days. I think I've become kind of desensitized to the big stylistic swings that this season keeps taking. I really would like to have become more emotionally invested in the character arcs of La'an, Uhura, Pike, and to an extent Spock.

[00:45:04] But these have all been explored with so little depth and so little consistency. I think the stories are always taking a backseat to the stylistic suit of the episode that it just makes it hard to get invested. Like I kind of wanted to and used to, I really liked a lot of the comedic moments throughout this episode.

[00:45:29] Particularly fake Spock and fake Pike on the Enterprise attempting to make the subterfuge work and just being terrible at it. Some real laugh out loud moments there. The costumes were just immaculate and off the charts. I'll always give snaps and thumbs up for a practical werewolf. And I'm kind of split on the high quality of visual effects that you get with a fire-breathing dragon spitting fire at the Enterprise.

[00:45:58] And the knee-jerk eye roll that comes from feeling like I'm watching a kid smash his action figures together. In another context, that can be very fun and entertaining, but that's just not why I ever go to Star Trek. Newman the Space Hippie, out. So part of it is, I think canonically we're watching a kid smash their action figures together. Like that's what Rukia does, you know. Also, I think this is the context that it works, this episode.

[00:46:27] And again, I tend to disagree on like the suit of genre points that Newman makes just because it's like, and Cameron, you really helped me with that by saying if it serves the characters, it's fine. And I think that that is 99% of the time absolutely the case. My issue in this episode, because I liked, I really liked all of the plot beats.

[00:46:54] I love that we actually got to see the swamp of death sign that was mentioned in the first one. Like I was absolutely here for the Princess Bride of it all. Like I'm here for it. I love the setting. Love the shots of the castle. Loved the interior of the castle. Like gorgeous, gorgeous space. Loved all the little character moments, like the interactions that Pellia has with Queen Nev. Like I loved all of that.

[00:47:20] The plot that I'm hanging up on here is La'an. And I know, like, I know that we're dealing with her, her perceived duality of self, right? Like she's, she's like, how can I be this thing and this thing? And, you know, here's my chance to bring up Neon Genesis Evangelion. Just go watch that. But like the, the way that she gets to this moment of understanding and going, oh, I'm a whole person.

[00:47:49] Like I can have, I can literally contain multitudes. That's great. Why are we capping that by having her go flirt with Jim Kirk? Like she's becoming a Spock. Like, okay, you don't always have to be in a relationship. And this leads me to thinking they're going to kill her. Like that's the only way out for this character.

[00:48:14] They're going to kill her and they're going to have her sacrifice herself to save Kirk and Spock. And there's going to be some agreement. We never talk about this. Or hopefully what I would hope is that she gets to go be in the department of temporal investigations and therefore she can't be talked about, you know, it's a, it's a classified thing. Wait, doesn't she have to have a baby first before they kill her though? No, because she's not Khan's parent. She's a cousin. She's a descendant of Khan. Cause Khan is already. She's a Khan cousin.

[00:48:43] Already alive. And she met him as a child. And that, like, I love that episode. He's out there pointing. Well, he's frozen, but. I just rewatched Wrath of Khan. And yeah, Montalban does this so much. And he's so good at it. He's constantly pointing. He's like, there he is. Add me a roll. Yeah. I'm surprised somebody doesn't like walk, get a clothesline by his finger. That was a deleted scene. But my point being like, I'm here for the genre swings.

[00:49:13] I'm here for the big chances. I'm here for the character arcs. This one just feels like they could have not put the Kirk scene in and it would be fine. Like. Well, I was thinking about this earlier. I don't know if I need the Kirk scene at the end. I don't hate it. I was actually wondering like, huh? I'm kind of surprised. I haven't heard any criticism about La'an's character arc needing like to find balance within herself being tied to a relationship with a man.

[00:49:43] That feels like a fair criticism. I'm surprised no one's heard it. So, Jesse, very modern of you to bring that up. I guess my only, you know. Yeah. Points, Jesse. There you go. You're going to be welcome on the barge. Is that like Lord of the Rings? Is he going to sail off into the West on the barge? There's a feminist barge that we're making a new society on and certain men get invited and certain men don't. So, Jesse just got an invite. Cameron, we're just going to see. Well, we'll see what happens when I say.

[00:50:09] I think part of it is just, you know, the showrunners themselves have said like, we like romance. They like telling romance stories. Fair to them. And then also, it's just, it's easier to externalize, you know, inner well-being by saying, hey, I'm now open to people, right? At the beginning of the episode, she's by herself. She's aggressive. She's fighting a punching bag. At the end of this episode, she's with people. She's putting herself out there. She's dancing. And yeah. This is what I was going to say.

[00:50:36] A, I would say it's a shorthand for true vulnerability. I'm a, you know, I'm fully, you know, Bechdel test looking for it all the time. But I will say I cried during that date scene because of the specific reason this episode hit me, which we haven't really talked about yet. But also, I don't feel like it's her relationship with Kirk in the end that makes, that demonstrates her ongoing, like, merit, like the peace she finds within.

[00:51:06] It's not her relationship with Kirk. It's a different relationship. And what is that different relationship? I think with herself. It's with the dogs. Oh. Well, yes. But we see the real embodiment of that true, like, ability to become some, you know, something that's open and, like, open to the scary, you know, the scary vulnerability that was so off limits to her is now with her all the time. And it's represented by the dog.

[00:51:35] Give me a scene of her playing with the dog. Like, she can still. She was playing with the dog. It was the end of whole, the end was the whole, her with the dog. She could still let her hair down. Just see the dog was at the end. It was the dog. I seen the dog, okay? She's going to the tree. Did you not see the dog? The dog won't sit. She puts the dog back and then she's getting dressed in the dog there. I seen the dog. I like the dog, okay? It's a good dog. I just, you don't have to also go for coffee with Kirk. Did you finish episode before the dog was done?

[00:51:58] I just, I think, again, it is, it is kind of my one big bump where it's like, if you, if you keep this going, you are quickly running out of episodes. How much of season six is going to focus on, again, wrapping up La'Anne's involvement in this? Like, they know they have to wrap it up. They've talked about wrapping it up. Like, what are you going to do? And I trust them and I'm willing to watch. Obviously, I'll watch all of season six with an open heart.

[00:52:28] I just, this was a thing where I was like, okay, she's better. She feels whole. She's got the dog. Cool. And they're like, and that means Kirk date. And I'm like, does it? Well, they have been building it up all season. I've got more to say about La'Anne's arc. I definitely want to hear what Alice has to say about La'Anne's arc. But I just, I mean, Newman talked about a fucking werewolf animatronic puppet costume thing. That was, as soon as the practical werewolf showed up,

[00:52:55] my little 80s loving heart exploded. Get me a werewolf. Love it. And when I, that was, that was where I started really like locking into, to like the Jungian shadow self theme. I thought it was so like, obviously, yes, it's, it's, it's big. It's like big swing, big swing, big swing, nothing subtext here. But I, I thought it was deft.

[00:53:21] I thought, um, so I'm in a, uh, I'm doing trauma therapy right now and it's like really expensive. Uh, but also, you can, you can pick your GoFundMe for it. It's fine. It is so costly, but also she doesn't take insurance and honestly, she's so good. I've been like, nor should she, nor should she. I don't want her interfacing with an HMO.

[00:53:44] So, uh, and so I'm open about that because one of the pieces of sort of my journey right now as a person who acts and is in the Hollywood world and it's so broken right now and messed up and there's no jobs and everybody's freaking out is like, I'm, I'm in this place where like I have had this kind of toxic relationship with career stuff for a really long time. And I've been trying to figure out what that is and I have so much resentment and anger

[00:54:14] all the time. And there's like this thing I've been practicing that I've come to really organically. It's not one thing or another that is sort of working with the shadow self and all the bad, ugly, you know, jealousy, resentment, anger, sadness, um, abandonment, all that stuff that is like, we sort of in our professional lives or just our regular lives as like Western

[00:54:44] Americans are sort of just like, that's bad. That's bad stuff. How do we figure out how to get the bad stuff out? And I'm in this place right now where I'm like, if I go deeper and I let the bad stuff in as much as possible and incorporate it and not shoo it away and look at it and, and sort of dance with it. Right. Like lawn does all of it was hitting me. I was like, yes, yes, yes. You know, dance with the two.

[00:55:09] Like I was just seeing my own literal emotional journey portrayed on the screen and they were wearing pretty costumes. You know what I mean? It was healing. I was watching something really healing for myself and I was like, well, okay, this is meant to be that I'm doing this episode on open pike night because this, I was meant to watch this episode with a really, really critical eye so that this could, so that this experience could be represented because I found it very healing.

[00:55:38] I found it very just like true to my own experience of what it's like to embrace those dark, dark things. And at this, at that point before that episode, I was not really vibing with lawns character arc at this point. And even though they did it in this really like kids smashing action figures together way,

[00:55:59] a lot of the work we do when we do like trauma therapy and even shadow self work is, is like working with our inner child. It's a lot of kid stuff and it's uncomfortable and kind of gross and kind of cringe. Right. And that's what they were doing. They're embracing it. So I was like, this is perfect actually that this is so like, you know, like that La'an is like, ew, like why is everybody being, I don't want to be a princess.

[00:56:28] It's like, yes, you have to be this goofy little, like you have to get your necklace from your daddy. You know, like we do therapy and it's like, you've got to go get your necklace from your daddy where the secrets are. And you're just like, ugh. I'm paying how much for this? But actually, once we drop that cynicism, once we drop those, that critical eye is when we get to the good stuff. So I'm like, that's also the journey that this caller recently is going on where he's

[00:56:55] like, this isn't what I come to Star Trek for, but I'm here. I'm here for the journey. And I really love that. I loved him saying this isn't what I come to Star Trek for, but I'm here regardless. That's a really vulnerable place for a fan to be. This stuff means so much to us. And yet now we feel like it's being threatened by all these big swings that are being taken and yet we're still here. That's really cool. Very cool. I think that's really cool. And I agree. Like, I love that entire piece because like. You're already on the barge, Jesse.

[00:57:25] Well, even as somebody who's like, why is this La'an's story? Well, there's different places you can get on the barge. You can get a better room. I'm going to be in third class with Leonardo from Titanic. Yeah, he's maybe not in spirit. I'm doing the dancing. But like, even as somebody who is like, this should be an Umbanga story, I think they executed La'an's story very well. And it absolutely is that duality and they did a great job of it.

[00:57:53] And it's like, you know, I think my favorite phrase around cringe is like, do not kill the cringe, kill the part of yourself that cringes or something like that. Like you have to embrace these things. And I mean, old Star Trek did this all the time where Kirk would be like, oh yeah, we could murder people any day. Today we chose not to. And that's a win. And it's like, they're kind of hearkening back to some of that. You know, like the darkness is doesn't go away. It's part of who we are. So you have to embrace it.

[00:58:22] And I do really love that. And like, I think your point about how deftly they handled it is really good too, because like, you can see from a mile away that Kirk is a werewolf, right? But like, the moment still hits. Because it's like, you need that to get to the point where she's like, oh, if I can, you know, if this version of me can love a werewolf, literally, then absolutely this version of me can love me.

[00:58:50] Like, it's really, really well handled. And I don't want to, this thing I always struggle with is like, I want to have complaints, but I don't want people to think I hate the show for it. Right. Because I don't. This is us, but this is us loving the show. You have a freaking podcast about it, you know, like. 100%. Yeah, I still have some reservations about her arc, but I feel now I must save them and not follow up on that because that is all beautiful. And I think. Steerage. Yes, that's fair.

[00:59:20] I'll take Steerage. Let's listen to Kay, Sarah, Sarah. Once upon a time in a galaxy of strange new worlds, along came a sequel to a season one episode that always leaves me in tears. But alas, this sequel found me in much the same streets as Laon, unable to shed a single droplet, for this sequel felt hollow. Yes, the costumes are gorgeous. The hygiene support of the Enterprise are fun. And damn, does Babs look fine as King Ridley.

[00:59:49] But honestly, I was confused more often than I prefer. If the magic planet ship is a remnant of Deborah the Boltzmann Brain and Rukia, why do they care enough about Laon to present her with this emotional catharsis opportunity? Finally, I'm irked that Pelia is presented as Benny Russell. Making him the author of The Kingdom of Elysian was a fun wink at DS9 fans back in season one.

[01:00:15] But giving his name to a white woman in this sequel feels so wrong. Far Beyond the Stars is about the importance of representation. And I know this episode's writers didn't intend this switch as a slight, and likely intended it to be another wink at DS9 fans that also picks up a thread from the Elysian Kingdom. Nevertheless, I'm peeved. Sorry to be a disgruntled goat.

[01:00:41] The ep was fun, but the eye candy wasn't enough to fully distract me from a wobbly story. And so long, Pelia. You deserve more than to be reduced to a quip delivery device and a send-off chugga-block with Princess Bride references. I understand that, too. It's not a bad criticism. And Cameron, I think you have some thoughts on this. I mean, nothing. I haven't seen the episode of DS9 with Benny Russell, so I don't want to share too many thoughts.

[01:01:09] But, I mean, to me, like, they use the name in Elysian Kingdom, and this just feels like organic storytelling. Like, well, we've already established he wrote the book. In this episode, we need someone to kind of pretend to be that name to... to scam the queen. Oh, we'll make Carol Kane pretend... It all just feels very organic in a way that I think highlights that kind of... Not diversity, exactly, but, like... Benny Russell doesn't always need to be, like, a metaphor or an icon.

[01:01:38] Sometimes he can just be an author that someone impersonates to get a job done. Well, and the writer of this episode in particular is Onitra Johnson. She wrote The Elysian Kingdom. She included Benny Russell on purpose. I'm fully willing to give her the benefit of the doubt here on this. And I think it is... I mean, it is a ruse. Like, it is... It's not them saying... Carol Kane has always been Benny Russell. It's a ruse to get past the evil queen.

[01:02:08] And, you know, I think you can look up to the idea of the Benny Russell character and have that be a positive thing. Like, oh, we need somebody to pretend to even be able to reach those heights just to get through this story. And it kind of adds a layer to the humor, too, because, obviously, these fantasy people have no idea who Benny Russell is. Right. So, it would be sort of like saying, oh, yes, let me introduce you to Spike Lee, played by Jonah Hill or something, right?

[01:02:37] Like, we get it, but they don't get it. They don't get it. Possibility. Do not say that. I'm not saying you should make a biopic starring him. I'm saying... Someone will find it and be like, yeah. Do not put that into an AI prompt. We're going to get a whole new segment of audience because people are like, yes, this is the podcast that advocates for that exact thing. No, it's not. And we're going to have to do a purge here. My whole career is just hitting that audience away. Yeah. Get out of here. Stop it.

[01:03:06] That one episode of an open pipe night. I didn't know. Alice just left Ed Sheeran's tour and now we're putting her right back into the same exact thing. Yes. Like, come on. Mackle a less. Wow. Wow. But I do confess, Kaysera, I was giddy and cheering for the Princess Bride references. Like... Oh, 100%. For me, that just works. Like, I'm okay with it. But again, we're writing... We're writing Pelia off.

[01:03:36] And I don't know if she's in the final episode or season yet, but we're writing her... It felt like a send-off to the character to me, the end of this. And we're going to do it off screen with a joke. Like, Pelia is the only person who's not a painting. Give her a scene with Thalia and La'an where she helps them. And then a nice little emotional goodbye between La'an and Pelia. Just give it... Let her say goodbye on screen. Like, we've loved Pelia. Let's... I know she's kind of just like a guest star who comes and goes.

[01:04:04] But, you know, I think we're going to hear from callers. They love her. Or... We all love Pelia. And I think part of it, for me, is okay. Because it's like, that is a very Pelia thing to do. If you're going to do it to a character. She lives on such this long timeline. And she's like, I'm just going to stay here. Like, that's... I feel like she would do that anyway. So it's like, it's okay. She may show up in another series because she'll be alive. Right. I know Pelia is not the same type of alien as Guinan.

[01:04:33] But in terms of the casting and showmaking part of it, it's a very similar thing. Where it's like, here is an Oscar winner. Here is a lauded actor that has incredible chops and a lot in their canon. Like, being a quick delivery machine is actually when you're that person. I don't want to speak for Carol Kane. But I bet, like, it's like, oh no, please let me be a quick delivery machine.

[01:05:02] Like, don't make me do the emotional work that I've already proven myself capable of so much. The best thing you can sometimes be is that person who's just here to pop. Like, when I would be on Resident Alien, like, I, you know, Chris Sheridan was like, you know, there was a lot of emotional heavy lifting in season two. And I was like, he's like, what are you looking at with the new season three stuff? Like, what are your thoughts? And he would have these meetings and I'd be like, I would love a little swing in joke swing out for Darcy.

[01:05:30] You know, like, that's kind of my favorite. You know, that is my favorite thing to do. I feel like we've established who she is. Let's get a little, you know, like, I'd love to just walk through a scene that I'm not even in. You know, to be like, oh, she looks like shit. You know, and like, walk through. Like, my favorite thing to do as a comedic actor is that. Yeah. So, you know, I would say just to stick up a little bit for what they're doing with Pellia. And at the same time, like, that is the character.

[01:05:55] Like, you're saying, like, that character is there to just provide little, like, bits of crazy context. And everybody's like, what? And then she's like, whatever. You know. But she's also delivered some heavy emotional lifting. Yes. But it's for Scotty. Like, her relationship is with Scotty. Yes. So, you know, you don't have Scotty in this episode, really. So, it's like, I think it was fine. Like, I liked the usage. I thought it was funny.

[01:06:22] It was great to have her commenting on the food. Like, this is who she is. She would not be focused on the peril. She'd be focused on what am I eating and how does it taste. Like, a Carole Kane episode and roll. Like, she ate this stuff up and delivered it so well. Like, just the, like, what am I missing from you two ladies? Or whatever. Right. She's talking to, like, the evil queen. It's so good. It's so good. Yeah. Love it.

[01:06:50] And also, K-Sara-Sara, love the whole storybook element of your submission. Love a theme to submission. Well done. I applaud you. Yeah. And we've talked about the costumes around the fringes. Let's listen to someone really talk about the costumes. Hey, hey, Open Pike. Abby Summer from the First Flight Podcast. Before I get to what you're expecting, two quick things. One, love that Mbenga just noped out of this entire situation overcomes. I thought that was hilarious. Gave me a chuckle.

[01:07:18] So did the fascinating and hit it montage. Perfection. I hope this isn't the end of Pellia and that we get more of her in these last seven episodes we have. And I also hope that La'Anne spends more time coming to terms with her augment arc in those episodes. I don't feel like that's enough of it. This is a good beginning of her catharsis. Let's bring it on. And now, the costumes, the costumes, the costumes. Oh, my God, my mouth hung open. If people don't just throw Emmys at Bernadette Croft and her team, then they are crazy.

[01:07:48] The detail, especially on Queen Neve's outfits. Like, say what you want about the masks that are useless and the ball gowns. That queen, the train from above in the silver, the dragon dress with the tentacled headpiece. Oh, my goodness. The amount of time and effort and detail. Plus, let's talk about the makeup that we see both on the fantasy planet and on the ship. These little details make the production of this show absolutely perfection.

[01:08:18] And I was just sitting here in awe of how beautiful it was. Say what you want about the story. It wasn't my favorite, but just watching this episode made me happy because it's stunning. Hope this finds you and yours well. We'll talk soon. Abby, I have to say I loved the masks. And I loved that they were essentially useless because it's like, I mean, that's another commentary, right? Like, you can put on all the masks you want. You can mask in your daily life. You can pretend to be somebody else. You're still going to be yourself.

[01:08:47] People are still going to see you for who you are. And the intricate detail on La'Anne's mask. It was like a flower became a mask. It was gorgeous. And that's where I started my band shirt design was with Talia's mask. So, again, check out the merch store soon. I just, that whole scene I thought was great because absolutely, as a viewer, you're like, people will still know who they are. Like, this is, but that's the fantasy part of it, right?

[01:09:15] Like, we get that all the time in fantasy stories where it's like, oh, well, we'll go to the masquerade. And that way no one will know who we are and we can do this Sutterfuge. And it's like, this is absolutely asking you to suspend disbelief. And there's so many layers of doing that in this particular setup for this episode. I just, I absolutely loved all of it. And, like, I do wonder, like, as an actor who's always in a Starfleet uniform, right?

[01:09:44] Very tight clothing. You got to be in shape to feel good there. Like, how does it feel to be just Ren Faire costumes but elevated to, like, the maximum level, right? Worse. You get to just play now. Terrible. The first moment is like, oh, my God, this is incredible. Wow, this is so cool. And then literally 30 minutes in and you're like, when is this? When are we? When's this? We're shooting again. We're doing the scene again. Huh.

[01:10:15] Because I thought maybe we're done with the takes and I can never wear this again. Is that possible? Yeah. But thank you. Thank them for their sacrifice. I also want to shout out Chappell's outfit. It's, you know, it's not as glorious as Queen Neves. But, like, it could have easily looked like high school production level. But it doesn't. It looks lived in and real and layered and so cool. So cool. So cool. Yeah. I can't wait. We are.

[01:10:42] It's coming a little late, but we will be talking to the director of this episode. And I cannot wait to ask her about how, like, they achieved that high angle shot of the long silver train on the dress. There's just some amazing showing off of the costumes in this that are glorious. And easily the best use of the spinning camera rig to show, like, that big pattern on the ballroom floor. Like, I mean, all of it. It's like we've heard the word immaculate, gorgeous, pristine. Like, it is all of this.

[01:11:12] But nobody said majestic. But it is majestic. And so I'll put it there as well. I love when there's the moment where Uhura is, like, sees herself. And instead of being, like, what's going on? You know, but she's like that. Wow, I look really good. That's excellent. That's a great job. You're on the Enterprise, which we believe can just make clothing. Like, it would be funny if we just, every time we saw her in casual clothing from here on out. From now on. We're in some amazing cosplay.

[01:11:42] Yeah. Or just the antlers. Just the antlers. Yeah. And I'm so glad we got something for her character to do on this planet. Because, like, it's easy for an arch villain character to be incredibly one note, very flat. Like, you know. But, like, they gave her a lot to chew on. And she chewed it. She had fun. It was very fun to watch. Yeah. I, I. Yeah. She was. I, I'm, like I said, 99% of me in love with the episode.

[01:12:11] Can't ignore my questions. Mm-hmm. Fair. Well, let's listen. We've got, I'm going to play Melanie and Mags as close together because they have very similar thoughts. Let's listen to Melanie first. Hi, guys. I'm still a bit bummed that my call from last week didn't make it, but it's cool we have so many participants on the other hand, of course. And for this episode, well, one thing I saw in the trailers made me think, oh, oh, not again. But Fox on the Discord anticipated it.

[01:12:39] We probably won't have any episode without Jim Kirk ever again. Because the Jim Kirk thing is slowly giving me issues. There's just too much of him. That was one of my main topics last week. And how, by the way, did he get into the story in this episode anyway? So, this episode. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. It feels unfinished. Weak compared to the last few? It feels as if something is missing, but I can't point to what. I also needed several watches of the Elisha Kingdom to love it.

[01:13:08] But what I love are So Roth and Pollux on the Enterprise trying to plant in. Anson and Ethan were hilarious doing that. Such an adorable couple, wreaking havoc. I loved and enjoyed her scenes so, so much. I also loved Samira and Soedia and The Kiss. Very, very, very, very, very good. They were all doing a great job. Everyone. I loved the costumes. I loved it all. Really, really, really. But, sadly, not enough pubs. Norukia. Hmm.

[01:13:36] And now we have one episode left in the season. And I'm a little bit nervous about what to expect next. Live long, prosper, Melanie. And now Mags. Hi, Mags here. Just thinking about the last episode, Once Upon a La'Anne. Aw, I was disappointed. Leasing Kingdom is definitely one of my favourite episodes. And I was looking forward to something in much the same vein.

[01:14:01] Aw, the humour from that first episode just wasn't there last night. I don't know. I mean, it was fun, but there was just something missing. And once again, Kirk, why? So not a great episode, but still, it wasn't awful. Bye. So I think it's interesting that a lot of people are coming at this being like, something's missing and I don't know what. And I think that's a fair reaction.

[01:14:30] And I think it's because, again, those first ten minutes are kind of wobbly. By the time Wesley, or dashing, swings in saying, huzzah, as he swings in. From where? Where's the rope? Did he climb a tree just to swing in? That's the sort of stuff I love in an episode like this. Once that happened, I was on board and I was kind of able to just be like, okay, rocky beginning. I don't know how any of this works or why we're here, but I can tell I'm going to have a good ride from here on out.

[01:14:59] And so I'm not like, I don't have as negative feelings left over because I feel like the end is pretty good and the middle is amazing. But I can definitely understand why someone, it could just take a while to kind of get past maybe some of those initial bumps. Well, and despite not understanding why Kirk is there other than we want him there for La'an. Right. And I mean, Paul Wesley is amazing. That's what I was going to say.

[01:15:24] I think this might be the best use of him so far because it's like, he crushes this role. And like I said earlier, when he first swung in, the angle and the lighting, I was like, he looks like Chris Pine. And they're doing like a funny Dungeons and Dragons meta Chris Pine thing. Like, oh, this is great. Oh no, it's, it's Paul Wesley. Okay. The, the name I was like, okay, like that comes from a children's book. That's fine. You can call him Prince Dashing. That's fine. I think he did a really good job.

[01:15:53] And this is kind of where I've landed on Kirk, the whole series, which is like, I don't know that he needs to be there, but he's killing it. He's doing a really good job. And I hope that, you know, if he, if he's watching fan reactions, I hope the part of it that he's hearing is you're doing a really good job and not the, he doesn't look like Shatner side of it. Cause who cares? I really don't. But like, but I, I do agree with the, like, why is he here? Piece of it all.

[01:16:23] And like, I do think that the episode by virtue of being a sequel to the Elysian kingdom sort of almost demands that that question be answered. Like, because it's, and I feel that way because I know a lot of other people are hanging up on it. It's not just an idiosyncrasy of my viewing of it. So, I mean, I am firmly on the side of get on board or don't, but Cameron, I will say here,

[01:16:50] this is your Cupid because. Yeah. Well, it's like. Michelle's going to bring up Cupid. Okay. I have Cupid. I have Cupid thoughts for sure. Cause like I get crap for liking that episode, even though it's air quotes, not good. So I'm interested to see where you land on this. We'll, we'll get to that call for sure. Yeah. She makes a good point there. But also I have thoughts on, on Kirk's performance here. Paul Wesley's performance as not Kirk dashing. It's, it's an incredibly tough balance what he's doing here.

[01:17:19] On first glance, you're just like, oh, he's just playing like a goofy Errol Flynn. How hard is that? He is playing a dumb, dumb. Like when this character starts going like, oh, the full moon, let me save you. And I'm thinking, oh, you're a werewolf. Okay. I got it. But then by the end, like his dumbness is so endearing and so sincere and he comes off as so sweet and you're start rooting for him and Thalia in a way that like is difficult, I'm sure for an actor to pull off. So congratulations for him there.

[01:17:50] Yes. I thought so too. I thought there was a lot of difficult dialogue that both the, yeah, a lot of the character. Yeah. I just, I just feel like that, that hinge point where I was watching and I, I recognize have, having listened to some of the calls that like, I'm probably more hormonal and tender right now. And I'm like affected by things in a way that maybe not everybody has access to, but like

[01:18:15] that moment of like, oh, these people are, you know, everything's so just over the top and arch. But then you're, you end up getting on board and rooting for them. I think that does work. I think that my favorite moment was when La'on starts sort of reacting to the werewolf love thing with the real princess Thalia. She's like, you love him regardless.

[01:18:45] And I started feeling like that was cringe. Her cynicism became the cringe thing. And in that moment, like all the like, no, it's not logical or no, this is kid stuff became the thing that was cringe. And it's like, you're, you're telling these characters like, oh my God, get over yourself. You know, like just like, get on board already. And I love that moment of switching sides to be like, no, this is like, and go for, go for the fun.

[01:19:11] And I do, I want to say, like, I understand that not everybody will feel positively about the kid smashing their action figures together of it all. But that's a really important kind of play that we all did when we were kids. Like that is the birth of your own creative storytelling, right? You don't have, you don't know how to write a character when you're eight, but you know how to take a character and change what they do.

[01:19:41] And that's the essence of the Elysian kingdom, right? Rukia knows these characters and she's like, well, I'm, I'm actually going to make Zamira a lady because I think that's better. And actually I'm going to have this because I think that's better. So it's like, this is built in. And I, I think we should acknowledge that there is value that comes out of the kids smashing their action figures together. I, I, I, that's not meant as a criticism to anyone. I just think it's something that should be voiced.

[01:20:11] Yeah. And I think anyone who watches Star Trek somewhat enjoys that. Anyone who watches any genre. So I did quickly catch on that, uh, dashing was the werewolf. And at first I was like, that was obvious. But then I realized I'm fine with it because it's not his story. It's Laan's story and it's how she responds to it. But watching it again, I realized how many breadcrumbs they were dropping for it. Oh yeah. Do we think Sir Adia knew he was a werewolf when she calls him, you know, the princess's dog?

[01:20:41] Uh, yes, absolutely. Like the thing, the thing that's interesting here is that Adia's character is so close to Ortegas's character, right? Like she's intelligent. That's true. Yeah. Like she's, she's capable, snarky, like action oriented person. Like I, I think that that is, I think that that was a hint that she knows that. And it seems, it doesn't really seem that any of the characters are unaware of it.

[01:21:10] Like, you know, actual princess Talia is not unaware of it. So I don't think there'd be a reason for everyone else not to know. It's just seems to know. Yeah. So it's like, this is just an understood thing here. And this is a world where people are like, yeah, I love him. He's great. And also werewolf. It's kind of dumb, but sweet. Yeah. Melanie also mentioned, a few people have mentioned, and we haven't gotten to this yet. I think the hinge on this episode for me where I was like, I don't care about any of that stuff

[01:21:40] before I'm here for this episode is when Pike or not Pike, I'm sorry. Routh and Pollux beam up to the Enterprise and impersonate Pike and Spock. Like, that was the subplot I did not realize I needed it and wanted from this episode and was so good. So good. They are so funny. The hit it and fascinating montage. Chef's kiss. Every time he gets, Anson gets scared by something. It happened so many times. And it was so obvious when it was about to happen.

[01:22:09] Cause he'd be like, I'm not afraid of anything. I just scared my cat. He bumped. Again, not easy to pull off to say like, to telegraph the joke and then still nail the joke. Yeah. Or even just like the shot where like, he's like, oh, is that a tavern? Shall we go get a drink? And then you cut to a closeup of Pollux being like, no, I don't think we should. And you're like, oh, Pike's already gone in there. Ralph's already gone in there. Yeah. It's half of, yeah. This is going to smash cut to the drinking. And it works.

[01:22:38] And yes, I mean, the, should the bridge crew have known caught on faster? There was a point like the first watch where I was like, oh no, she figured it out. But she realizes that Ralph has information they need. So she's kind of letting it play out. But then there is a scene where she's like, what is happening here? And you're like, okay, Una, you, you know, what's going on. You have to know what's going on. Maybe they could have thrown in a line that like Pollux is like, sort of, there's like a half kind of magical shield that just makes it slow for people to figure out. I don't know.

[01:23:08] Yeah. I, yeah. I, I really resonate. I mean, that, that type of thing is super common in shows like this where it's like, like my character would know, you know, and you kind of have to like, the writing doesn't want to, you know, so it's sort of like how much can you really get done in a day as like respecting each character. And so I, I agree with you about that was one of my many, but wait a minute.

[01:23:35] And the other, but wait a minute that I had, which I haven't mentioned yet is why are they talking in the, the disc world? Why are we, why are there weekends? That was randomly what bothered me. There's like the queen throws a ball every weekend. What is a weekend? Where's the sun and moon? Are there, is there, because Rukia understands the Gregorian calendar and was like, you know, I know that there used to be weekends in space.

[01:24:07] Why is there a weekend? Right. Well, the same reason there are shifts. No, because like when we, the cap capitalism is why weekends happened because of the work week existing. Right. That's why that famous line in down Abby when Maggie Smith is like, what is a weekend? Because the aristocracy doesn't know what a weekend is because nobody works. And in Starfleet, nobody works the same way because there's no capitalism. So why are there weekends? That was the thing that bothered me. They still have shifts.

[01:24:36] And so I think this could be. But everybody has their own weekend. Like you wouldn't have. Leftover spectral hand of capitalism to your point. Like some of the vestiges of it have survived into the utopian socialist future. Well, speaking of where my ball landed in reference roulette. And we play this all the time with TNG. I was like, why is like Sadie Hawkins still a thing? But this other thing didn't survive the apocalypse. Right.

[01:25:03] So Pike knows what medieval times is, but not a van. And he's talking about the restaurant, not the time period. It seems to be. Yes. Like what? That was the one where I was like. And we know he's really into like old TV and stuff, but it's like. Sure. Dude, this is like you. He's a big cable guy fan. Yeah. Like you only studied like ancient air quotes culture from Earth from the 60s to 1999 and

[01:25:33] then stopped. And then like that became part of your personality, which is certainly possible. Right. Because for Picard, it was like. And terrifying possibility. Right. And like Picard only studied Victorian literature from Earth culture and then stopped. Right. And then made that part of his personality. So it's like this is this is not inconsistent. It is a little bit jarring. Like you could have just referenced actual medieval times, not the restaurant medieval times.

[01:26:04] It would have been OK. All right, Jesse, do you want to read Katrine's submission or shall I? Certainly this week we have a written submission from Katrine. Greetings from Germany. I really loved it. Oh, I'm supposed to read this one. OK, German, Katrine. I'm sorry if I get this wrong, but I really love German accents. Greetings from Germany. I really loved it. In contrast to last week, I welcomed Jim Kirk in this episode because he was really important to the La'an story.

[01:26:32] And he had he had both funny and deep moments. I enjoyed the many funny moments of that episode, like the wrong pike and Spock on the Enterprise. But I also liked the deeper moments and especially the end when La'an seemed balanced out and was on a date with Kirk. I think Spock is the better dancer. But finally, we see La'an dancing again. And I really miss that. Thanks for your podcast and live long and prosper. I kind of I totally miss that, like she's dancing and dancing was her thing from season three.

[01:27:02] That's so good. Yeah. I mean, when you have a trained dancer on your show, you know, give her the opportunity to dance. I did like it. I just. Like we literally have her let her hair down and then go on a date with Kirk. And I again, I maybe it's just me personally. I just didn't need the last Kirk scene. I was satisfied with the dog. So I but I. Sure.

[01:27:28] Again, as I always do, like I love that people love and do not love different parts of this for different reasons. As Alice was saying, like, that's kind of the point of talking about it with other Star Trek fans. And I and I love that it's it's the opposite of what we've mostly heard, which is like we don't need Kirk and it doesn't matter. She agrees that like we don't need him unless he's for La'an's story. So I am glad that that that came through. Right.

[01:27:57] I feel like the what I cried about when I watched the date scene wasn't really like, yay, they're finally together. They're they're finally it was more like what I really resonated with in that scene was La'an doing the OK, here's all the things I feel. And this is a really vulnerable thing for me. And I'm scared to say these things. And she did it in a really stilted way that was like, OK, I'm doing this. It's really, really scary.

[01:28:26] I'm doing this this thing that I fight, you know, every day with, you know, hand to hand combat. And not a lot scares me. So I'm going to do the thing that scares me. And I thought it was a really I it was a really effective moment. And the reveal of Kirk being there wasn't really it was done in a really like and it's Kirk. And you're like, yeah, we all know. Obviously, it's going to be Kirk. So I felt like that was a little unnecessary.

[01:28:55] But it didn't really matter to me that it was Kirk. Like I knew it was Kirk. The point is, she's doing this scary thing that was not available to her because she hadn't allowed it to be. You know, she wasn't able to. And now she's getting to do it. And that's that was the big deal thing for me. Well, maybe the defense of it being Kirk. And I love that he gets the line of acknowledging how maybe complicated their history is.

[01:29:18] And he might be like the hardest person for her to reach out to like this because they have been shot and stunned and sang together. I like the three S's. And, you know, I mean, not to be crude, but like, you know, these two have got some stuff to work out in the bedroom with everything they've been through. So good for them. Good for them. Okay. Off the barge. All right. Got it. Got it. Being pro-sex gets you off the barge. I'll gladly swim. It's a very.

[01:29:47] Yeah. It's actually you don't want to be in this barge. He's been asking for sex scenes for like three years. So it's okay. I've been talking to the barge owners and I actually don't think about it. It's a lot of speakers. Just a lot of conferences. So it's a very. It's like a liberal arts. Yeah. Call it. Degree from 2004. So you don't want. Anyway. That sounds like a lot of sex though. Nothing. And nothing for the accent. Right. That was amazing. That was really good. I thought that was great. You know why? You know why?

[01:30:17] It's because it just fits. It didn't. It just didn't catch us off guard. It just felt real. I kind of was like no comment is. Is that best comment? Yeah. We'll let you know. But you'll still fish for it. If Katrine like unsubscribes. Yeah. We'll send you the complaint. I'll probably get it directly. Well. And I. She'll hunt you down. This does put me in the headspace though. Of being like. All right. Well then I better get to see. The scene of La'an. Apologizing to Ortegas. For killing her Gorn girlfriend.

[01:30:47] Because. To me. That's the emotional vulnerability. I want from La'an. Fair. Katrine did bring up. The wrong. Spock and Pike again. And I just. I forgot my favorite. Perhaps one of the funniest things. I've ever seen in a Star Trek. Is the way fake Spock lounges. In the chair on the bridge. Yeah. It was like. Oh. What? Great piece of character work. Like to show that this isn't Spock. Anson Mount. All over the map here. He's so good. So good. Yeah. They have so much fun there.

[01:31:15] I do lament that we did not get an actual Hadookin. From Ethan Peck. Like I thought. For sure. Like he's putting the energy ball in his hands. This is going to be. Hadookin coded. This is going to be Kamehameha coded. And it's not. He just kind of throws his hands up. And he's like. Magic. So I. That's a small complaint. But I don't think that's anybody's fault. That's just. Again. Me coming into it with expectations. All right. Let's hear from Izzy. Hi. I'm back. It's Izzy calling it episode 409.

[01:31:45] I'm going to be so free. I didn't really like this episode. The story was okay. And like it was really beautiful. Like set wise and costume wise. But I just didn't think this was a great ending to La'Anne's arc this season. But a little weird and anticlimactic. But yeah. About the dog. She's really cute. And she's amazing. But is she here to stay?

[01:32:12] Because I don't want another A Night in Sick Bay incident. I feel like we learned our lesson on Enterprise about having dogs on the ship. We'll see how this goes. I'm pretty confused about La'Anne and Kirk. Because I feel like they really set up La'Anne and Spock. And they're like oh it's perfect. It's meant to be. And it was all great and lovely. And now she's with Kirk. And it's just like what's going on? And I feel really bad for Spock. Having to see that. I'm really really sad about Pelia also. She didn't even say goodbye.

[01:32:42] Like it was just like one sentence. I knew it had to happen. But yeah. I'm very happy for Sir Adia and the Huntress though. That was like my favorite part of the episode. I'm very happy for them. Talk to you next week. There is an amazing very quick shot of Spock on the planet. Watching Thalia and dashing Kiss. And he turns to walk off. And just the expression on his face is gold. It's really good.

[01:33:10] I have to re-watch to see that. I didn't. So this is Pelia's last episode? Is that for sure? It's not for sure. Okay. Okay. So this was kind of my problem with the La'an arc. Which is we get to the end. And every funny comedy episode of Stranger Things World. I'm like where's the gut punch? Where's the emotional pathos that's going to hit me? And it did not hit me here. I really appreciated what they were doing.

[01:33:36] Like when Queen Neve kind of took the energies of both Thalia and La'an. And combined them. And then when they woke up. And they were both now like equal parts each other. And feeling what the other one felt. I was like okay. This is kind of shorthand. But it works. I'm here for it. We're playing in a world of sorcery and stuff. Let's do it. But it didn't quite work for me. And I think maybe for two reasons. One. It felt like maybe Thalia should have been a bigger character in this episode. Like they introduce her.

[01:34:04] And then she kind of shows up at the ball all of a sudden. Has an amazing fight scene with La'an. And then now she's. It's kind of feeling like it's asking us to empathize with her. Feeling La'an's anger and rage. And like I don't know. Now I wanted to know more about Thalia. That felt unbalanced. And then the other thing is. And I've been saying this all season. I just haven't really bought into La'an's arc. Like let's not forget this all started because she punched a dinosaur. And it didn't hurt her.

[01:34:33] And I'm like. Have you punched a dinosaur? This is a fair question. You don't know what it's like Cam. Two things. First of all. You're driving me crazy. It's Thalia. I'm so sorry. It's okay. Bill Thalia. I do love you. And I don't want this to come across as a criticism. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. But. Here's the thing. Like you have this natural end. Right. Where it's like. Okay. Have her be happy with who she is. Now we're good. Now we don't need to resolve any romance arcs.

[01:35:02] We don't have to explain away her relationship to Kirk in the final season. Like we don't have to do any of that stuff. Here's your ending point. Just stop there. And second of all. Cameron. You assured me. That the ghost ship episode. Would matter. And it would come back. Because they had the ghost shushing people thing. Like oh there's still a secret. Gonna happen here. Mm-hmm. What is going on? Okay. I'm so glad you brought that up Jesse. Because my next point was like. This whole season. They've been treating La'an like.

[01:35:31] Like she accidentally hurt a crew member or a friend. Because of her dark powers that were awakened in her or something. And I know people are going to say. Cameron. What about the group? She was possessed. She was not in her right mind. This is Star Trek where people do crazy shit under mind control all the time. And no one cares. That doesn't count. I don't understand why La'an is so down on herself. I just don't. And so for that reason the resolution kind of felt like. Okay. But also what about the ghost? You said it would matter.

[01:36:01] We've got a whole nother season Jesse. I don't know. I don't. The writer said it would matter. Maybe he just met with La'an's inner struggles. I don't know. But also there's another season. And maybe just wait. Okay Jesse. Just wait. Yeah. That writer was like. I have to stop talking to these guys. I'll just say whatever. I have other things to do. Fair. It'll matter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Coming. Bouchon. Anyway. So but. So it's not that it didn't fully not work.

[01:36:31] It's just I wanted a little more from from that kind of emotional stuff. But what was that? Like I liked what they put in place. I feel that way a little bit too. I know all I've said kind of contradicts that. But I do. As far as like watching her arc up until this point. It's been just like. You know. This is my. I'm La'an. This is my struggle. You have to be convinced because we're saying it. Yes. And it is.

[01:36:59] A little show don't tell goes a long way with stuff like that. And they don't seem to be doing as much of that on this. And to. Yeah. To make way for more gimmicks content. Which I have stood by. I'm. I support. But I do have my reservations. Sort of like a candidate for office. You know what I mean? You don't have to be a fan. You just got to get where you need to go. Which the direction I want to go is more Star Trek regardless. Right. I'll take that. I'll.

[01:37:28] I'll vote for that. I mean that's my reaction to. I mean. Going back to what you were saying half an episode ago. Like. I agree that like. You can choose to get on board with the gimmicks. With Star. Strange New Worlds. And that's what I always say. Like look. Just accept it for the show it is. And not the show you want it to be. And you'll have a good time. I promise. They're doing it well. Characters are doing the character stuff well. And then my other thing is like. And what guys. Over 900 episodes of standard Star Trek episodes isn't enough. Strange New Worlds has to give you these. Like 10 more.

[01:37:58] Just accept 10. Wacky episodes. Yeah. I hate. You know what I was thinking like. We. We have this. Where. We exist in a time. Where. And I'm sure people thought about this already. And made this argument on. Even on this show. But. We exist in a time where it is very difficult to get anything made. And then shown to people at all. And. One of the many reasons is the second screen.

[01:38:24] Another reason is Hollywood is absolutely just a ball of like. It's like four bald rich guys in a trench coat pretending to be a studio. Like. It is so. It is so backwards. And the way that things get approved is like. Just. Everybody's doing the wrong jobs for what they're good at right now. And. And. The audiences are. You know. It's like being a Star Trek fan right now. Is.

[01:38:53] Being a really smart person. In a world. Where everything is made for dumb people. Hmm. By. Sometimes dumb people at the top. Giving smart people not enough money. To make stuff that they want. You know what I mean. There's so many like. Everything goes through many filters of shit. That. What we get at the end of the day. Like. I tend to just be really grateful for what we do get. And I feel like there's a better future out there. If we just keep on keeping on.

[01:39:22] And staying the course and doing what we can. It's just that we need to like. We need to deal with like. The stuff that we're getting during this time. It's just not going to be. As good as it can be. For many many reasons. That have nothing to do with like. Respect for Star Trek. Or you know. Like. I promise. Things can get better. And they will get better. But it's just like. I feel. In my bones. That a lot of the reasons. That what we're seeing. A lot of the problems we're having.

[01:39:51] With what we're seeing. Is because of the. The nature of. Of the beast of Hollywood right now. And I say Hollywood. As a shorthand for. TV kind of. You know. You know what I mean. When I'm saying Hollywood. Guys. It is so messed up. Even the. Even the tumbleweeds are AI. Right. Is what I say. Like it's really bad right now. That is dark. That coupled with. I have said this before. I think it is. Harder to enjoy stuff right now. It's harder to let yourself. Let go. Of reality.

[01:40:21] And just enjoy the thing. And I'm not. And I. Need is so great. Right. And I don't. For actual Star Trek. Right. And I don't think that's a failure on anyone's. Part in the audience. No. Like it is. It is just. A fact that. It can be harder to let yourself. Exist in the space of like. I'm going to just watch the thing. And like it. Like you have to choose. In certain situations. To enjoy a thing. Or choose to be able to enjoy a thing. And I fully understand. That that's not an easy choice. To make right now. It's just.

[01:40:50] I mean that is. For me. That's the lifeline of Open Pike Night. Is getting to hear so many people say. I love this thing. Yes. It matters to me. Here's why. Yes. Exactly. And it's like. That's been. Deeply healing for me personally. Yes. Well we've got. Yeah. Four more calls. I'd love to get through. So let's listen to Michelle. And talk about Cupid a bit. I hate to be a downer. But this episode. Just didn't quite work for me this week. And I like whimsy. I enjoyed the Elysian Kingdom. I like classic Trek episodes.

[01:41:20] Like TNG's Cupid. Yeah. Which is my crusher connection. Where Q transported Beverly. And the rest of the bridge crew. To a Robin Hood realm. Where they were dressed up as the characters. And we had a princess. But this one just felt. I don't know. A little all over the place. And a little shallow to me. And it was goofy and funny. And I think Christina Chong did a wonderful job. I loved seeing her dog Runa. And think that really should have been the ending.

[01:41:46] But there were some serious mental and biological things going on with her. And I just didn't buy that putting on a princess dress. Thinking about her dad for a minute. And then dating Jim Kirk at the end. Was a good resolution to all that. I would have preferred it to end just with La'an and Runa. And look. Jim Kirk has a lot more important things to do. Like trying to prove to his ex-girlfriend Carol. That he actually wants to be a present and good dad to their son.

[01:42:16] As opposed to constantly coming on the Enterprise to try to hook up with someone. So yeah. Not a good look Jim. I did appreciate the humor. The costuming. The dragon. But overall this episode just didn't work for me. I'm interested to hear your thoughts and everybody else's. And looking forward to the finale. Live long and prosper. Michelle is on the side of the dog. That's great to hear. I appreciate that. So Cameron this is where I will. Yeah. This is where I'll point it right at you.

[01:42:45] Is this a better episode than Cupid? I will say yes. I think they're interesting to look at. Because Cupid has a great first half. I think the intro into Cupid is wonderful. They don't actually get to Robin Hood land until almost halfway through the episode. I don't think. Like there's a lot of character work building up. Why Q since I'm there and everything. But then once they're there. The hijinks kind of fall flat. And the emotional arc of the story is really confused. And doesn't make sense at all. While here. The way we get into the story is very confusing and clunky.

[01:43:15] But once we're there. The hijinks are amazing. And the emotional arc is at least solid at worst. And you know. Compared to how your traction. It could be great. It could bring you to tears. So. Also. I do agree. I thought we were going to deal more with Jim as a dad. But apparently his whole son stuff was only there to kind of inform his own daddy issues. Which got sort of resolved last episode. I thought we were getting more with Jim and his kid this season too.

[01:43:45] I hope maybe next season will give us some more. So you want to see Jim's son as a baby? Maybe. Like in baby Starfleet pajamas? Oh well now I do. With like a little. A little Enterprise mobile above his crib. Wait. Yeah. Wait a minute. Well I think I just read this leak on Reddit. That the next episode is going to be all talking dogs and babies. Oh yeah. So I think that might be. People will love that. I think that people are really going to love how. Yeah.

[01:44:15] Because it's just a much more serious. Sort of like. Methodical. Very sci-fi. You know. Dogs and babies have deep thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. There's no rule that says a baby can't be a captain of a starship. I don't see it. Yeah. I'm looking through here and it doesn't say anything about it. So. Let's hear from. Air Bud. Air Bud Star Trek. It's only a matter of time. Oh no. We all got turned into different kinds of dogs. Look.

[01:44:43] I may have pitched that in my genres we want. I have to say something about the dog too. I met the dog at. Oh gosh. At Rose City. We met the dog. Runa's amazing. Yeah. Runa is now like on the show and is like signing autographs. Who were you more excited to meet? I know Alice. The dog or the llama? I didn't know it was. It was the dog from Star Trek. I didn't know it was the dog from the show. Oh really? I just thought it was like. Her dog. And I thought it was like Ethan Peck's literal dog. So I was like okay.

[01:45:13] Dog's here. Whatever. Guess you need the dog here. And I was just like hey dog. What's up? I did want to ask. What's up dog? You're at Rose City Comic Con with Ethan and Christina Chong. You probably hadn't seen the episode yet though. I hadn't seen the episode yet. So you couldn't talk to her about how it affected you. Dang. I didn't. I couldn't talk to her about how it affected me. And she. Yeah. And I had met her before at Comic Con. And I was like we danced together at Comic Con. And she's like huh. And I was like my dress was see-through.

[01:45:43] And she was like oh. And I was like I'm leaving. It was one of those things. It was like clearly you don't remember me. And then when I told you I was like basically nude. She was like I don't. Yeah. It's weird to not remember someone when you've seen their nipples. So. She'd probably be like that doesn't narrow it down. You have to understand the number of. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. That was a very sheer time in fashion. That's true. So. Yeah. That was. And then I mostly wanted to talk to Ethan Peck. Because I had just done the Star Trek Online.

[01:46:12] Virtual con thing. Where we were unveiling the Ethan Peck. Spock on Spock on Spock. Content. Update. So I was like it was so cool that you did that. Like. I just want to let you. I was telling him all the fan reaction about that. And so maybe Christina felt a little ignored by me. And she was like I saw her nipples. Why is she not talking to me? I don't know what happened. Fair. Well you know who would love a air bud in Star Trek? I'm sure it would be Trev. Let's hear from him.

[01:46:42] Let's go. Hey it's Trev beaming in from the Fear That Franchise podcast. And you know. A few weeks ago on episode four. Some were poo-pooing my complaining about the crew not being concerned or curious about a doppelganger. But this week the crew is immediately freaked out. And know they need to figure out what's happening when they encounter them. So which is at Stranger Worlds. Are doppelgangers weird or not? Anyway this is one of those situations where my issues with the episode are more about the larger context around it. As opposed to the episode itself. Taken on its own merits. It's certainly a rollicking fun time. A bunch of great moments. Good comedy.

[01:47:11] Anson and Ethan in particular are an incredible comedic duo. I loved every second of their evil versions on the Enterprise. But look. I know we're all kind of sick of the when you only have ten episodes should you really do this argument. But there are times when it's valid. And when three out of five episodes in a row are about a character needing a fantasy world adventure. To experience some kind of emotional breakthrough or catharsis. It really starts to make the show feel lazy. Like they have a limited bag of narrative tricks. And need to go back to the same one each time they want to progress a character's story. Not to mention the season has fallen into an every other episode is a comedy formula.

[01:47:39] That I think is largely responsible for the whiplash much of the audience is feeling. It constantly undercuts the larger drama. Finally, I really don't like Lon and Kirk getting together in the main timeline. I can accept some of the show's canon tweaking. But Kirk and Spock sharing a former flame and never talking about it. Even when encountering her ancestor. That's a step too far for me. I'm now even more convinced we're heading toward Lon joining the DTI. And agreeing to have everyone's memories of her wiped as part of the deal. Here's hoping when that happens it's treated as seriously as it should be. And not wedged in another comedic fantasy world episode.

[01:48:08] No more of those in season five please. Look Trev. I only have one thing to say. Yes more. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. About the doppelgangers or the... It's interesting that all the people dealing with their catharsis through fantasies. Yeah. I do wonder now though if that is part of the process. Like for the writers and for the showrunners. Like Star Trek is my fantasy world where I can deal with some of my own personal stuff.

[01:48:37] And this is what I'm going to do with my Star Trek series. Like it kind of makes me wonder because I mean we know that Akiva chose the Gorn on purpose. Right? Because he remembered them from when he was a kid. And he fully believes that there are real monsters in the world. And I think that's a fair thing to believe. So it does kind of make me wonder. But Trev I think you're not incorrect that the show is kind of having its doppel cake and eating it too. Because even in this episode. Sounds delicious.

[01:49:06] They're like here's a problem. But also they don't recognize that Spock and Pike are probably the doppelgangers. So it's I mean you're not incorrect that that's a little bit messy. Yeah. I wonder if they just like to deal with the heavy stuff in a lighter episode. And that's kind of their go-to there. And I also you know now that they now that Trev said that like the every other episode is a comedy whiplash.

[01:49:36] I do kind of agree with that where I'm like why don't we just make every episode. They're so good at the comedy. Just do the comedy. I think they just realized their cast is so good at it. They write for it. Yeah. And I've always kind of like my thing is more just like I felt Discovery was so good at dealing with like people's you know emotional inner struggles. I'm like that was that show right. And like that's where we should have the union.

[01:50:03] And so this show is more like the hijinks are the hijinks are your strong suit. Just stick to the hijinks. I don't know. Maybe yeah. A lot of food for thought there. All right. Let's hear what Zoe has to say about it. Open pipeline. This is the USS Cinema. Zoe Richardson, Captain Commanding, also host of Backlick Cinema, the podcast. So we have this episode that is the sequel to the Elysium Kingdom.

[01:50:33] And the thing that kind of threw me off almost right away was the techno babble that they used to attempt to explain this unusual spatial phenomena. And usually I have a handle on the techno babble that's used in Star Trek. But this time I just kind of had to let it wash over me because I wasn't getting it.

[01:50:55] Also, Dr. Mbenga, in his professional capacity as the chief medical officer of the USS Enterprise, instead of having La'an go to the ship's counselor, which we established is on the Enterprise, to deal with her issues with her identity. He instead sends her to explore a strange spatial phenomena. Because he decided that having a similar experience, it had helped him.

[01:51:23] He believes that it will help her. I am not sure that that is the wisest course of treatment. After all, she is having an identity problem. And having risked her meet her doppelganger is probably not the best course of action. As confused as I was, I still found it a little entertaining. Richardson out.

[01:51:47] Well, not just Mbenga, but Pike, after learning the value of seeing a counselor, is talking to La'an and is like, let's go have your brain scanned by a medical doctor. Pike, you know that's not what she needs right now. What are we doing here? But maybe they've tried that already. We don't know what happens between episodes. Well, we know that Chappell has all those, like, surreptitiously taken brain scans that she doesn't tell anyone about.

[01:52:13] But, Zoe, thank you for giving me the opportunity to bring up, once again, the show is about Mbenga. And to have him sidelined for most of this episode definitely upset me. I didn't clock that he decided that he made the call. Yeah, and it's almost like they had already decided we are going to go do this. Let me get you medically cleared for it or something. It was a little...

[01:52:38] Why is Pellia and the captain, why is Pellia and the captain exploring this, like, planet that shouldn't be a planet thing? Like, maybe the science officer and security, sure. Well, and to, you know, Zoe's point about the technobabble, it's like, I agree with you because I think in the Elysian kingdom, you get it exactly. They're like, hey, there's a theoretical thing. It's called a Boltzmann brain. It could exist at an impossible scale. Well, that's kind of all we know about it.

[01:53:07] And you're like, oh, okay. I'm good with that. There's an intelligence doing a thing. Yes. Like, cool. That's fine. I don't know that cramming that into the last time on segment really satisfies the same thing here. And I do love that this episode mirrors the Elysian kingdom in that we do get that catharsis at the end. And we do get the emotional revelation and the journey for La'an. I do really like that.

[01:53:37] I think for me, it hits harder in the Elysian kingdom. I don't know that that's a failing of this episode. But I was reminded of how much the Elysian kingdom affected me. Whereas with this one, I had enough questions to be like, did that overwrite my questions? I don't know. I think talking with you guys has absolutely helped me get past that a little bit.

[01:54:03] Because it is a really good La'an story for 99% of it. Well, and to be fair, yeah, tears at the end of the Elysian kingdom. But I'm a dad. So I had my dad hormones there. I haven't really had past trauma I need to work through. So this episode would not hit me the same way that episode was. Just a coastal elite born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Basically. Basically. If you guys could please just traumatize me so I could enjoy this episode a little more. Or we'll find it. Yeah. We'll find it. Yeah.

[01:54:33] Okay. Get ready to hate your parents. Maybe when you kick me off the barge and I'm drowning. That's the trauma and that's why I did it. Thank you. Thank you. There you go. Full Circs. I really feel like it's what I'm, what you're saying, Jesse, is what I was trying to elucidate before. Like, just don't tie it. There's no reason to tie it to the Elysian kingdom. Like, we did a great thing. It's over. This could be its own standard. Like, we have plenty of Q.

[01:55:02] We have plenty of holodeck. We have plenty of, there's lots of runway in that exists already for us to create this situation and justify it in a million different ways. If you've already established this existing thing, why, why tread back on that to tie it in and keep, keep like, you don't need to do anything to keep that alive if people already appreciate that. It's just there. Just do your new, new thing. And then none of these, a lot of questions get answered or not asked at all.

[01:55:32] Or keep going with Mbenga. Like, we know he's going through it this season. Like, he's about to have. He doesn't wear a, the dress isn't pretty. Okay, but his outfit. Might not wear the. Was amazing. Right. That's true. But I, but the, but the necklace. I don't disagree about the necklace. I just. And the prints. And then. He doesn't like dogs. And then the, when, why would we, how would we then see. Why would he dance with Kirk's hair blowing in the wind? Like, how would we get that? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's really important.

[01:56:03] Well, while we're asking for more important fantasy things, I would have really liked just one shot of the dragon latching onto the Enterprise and biting in a cell. Like, I've just, I love that we got the fire breathing. I just, I would have liked one big dragon bite. You know. The dragon that day was overworked because it had been on Gates. His character just died on Game of Thrones. So I think. Yeah. But they got a good actor. They did get a really good dragon actor. They did get a good actor. Yeah.

[01:56:32] Well, let's end talking about who this episode is about with Steve's call. Once on a time, I made a prediction to John T. Bowles as to what the space dragon was going to be. I could not have been more wrong, but I'm not even mad. Because instead of what I predicted, we got to have it be Evil Queen Uhura from the Elysian Kingdom, which I am so happy we got to revisit. That was one of my favorite episodes of season one.

[01:57:01] So if anything was going to get a sequel, I'm glad it was that. And, you know, and not more of the Griffin because we're all still pretty traumatized from that. But if there was one thing that makes me happy about the show, it is La'an and her fierceness and her beauty and all that. So to get two of them just warms my heart. And I couldn't be more pleased. My wife and I left from start to finish this entire episode. And she got to have two Spocks.

[01:57:30] So I'm pretty sure that had something to do with it. When I wrote in last week, I mentioned I never felt more akin to Kirk when he was dealing with a dipshit of a superior officer. Now I've never felt more akin to Kirk. As a man professing his love to a fiercely beautiful brunette and being swiftly hit in the face.

[01:57:58] If that's not true love, I don't know what is. Live long and prosper, everybody. See you next time. What I'm taking from this is that Steve has the coolest wife. And I hope we get to meet her someday. I know. I love their relationship. They are my new Zendaya and Tom. I love them. Oh, my God. That's so cute. We can vouch for Steve. Absolute joy to be around. Man, we got to find a way to get the whole gang together.

[01:58:26] I think that that is now officially on the vision board. I'm obsessed with their relationship. My fiance will not watch any Star Trek with me. It's not. If it's not sports, it's not, you know. So I don't really understand how I found this person. It's really weird. It's just very strange. The love of my life is like, I like balls. Back and forth balls. Yeah. But he is my soulmate.

[01:58:55] So that's amazing. Sandwich. Back and forth balls. Sandwich. And I'm like, I love you. You're my favorite person. That's true love. Show him the episode of Voyager with The Rock. Maybe that's your way in. Like, that's sports adjacent. No, I mean, he, he, he, he, yeah. It's just, it's a, I think for him, it's a lot to get into. Yeah. You know, like, I think he would. Oh, yeah. It's like, it's the, it feels like, you know, I sometimes worry about this with Treks in

[01:59:24] the City because we have like truly nine years of content. And I'm like worried. People don't want to get into the show because they're like, but there's so much backstory in history. It's like, don't worry. I don't remember anything. You don't have to either. Well, I don't know. Like that's, that is a thing people go and look for. Like, because if they, so like, let's say somebody hears just your episode on their favorite DS9 episode, right? And they love your coverage.

[01:59:49] I promise you they're going to go, I need 200 more episodes of this. And they'll go download it all in a day and then use it to get through a couple months. Like, so, I mean, that's absolutely. My ideal listener is somebody who gets in a horrible car crash. Well, yes. All podcasters hope. Laughing from listening. Of course. I did want to talk a little bit more about La'an and Christina Chong's performance because, you know, it is her episode and she is amazing.

[02:00:17] Watching La'an try to cry. Amazing stuff. I love that the subtitles just say forced sobbing. Great, great, great stuff. And stuff we haven't seen from La'an yet is La'an being Jason Bourne. Like that style of fighting from her. I don't think we've gotten from another episode. Come on, Cameron. That's so funny. And she's really good at it. It's so good. Thank you. And I just wanted to say that. Both the pun and how awesome it is to see her fight. Fight like that. Yeah. I don't disagree with any of that.

[02:00:47] I think she crushed the episode. And I think, I mean, that's maybe the most consistent thing about the show week to week is like these performances are always top notch. You never have an episode where you're like, oh, I really feel like Anson Mount took a day off or like, you know, Ethan Peck phoned it in. Like that just doesn't happen here. And I'm, I'm really grateful to have a show like that. And I mean, you know, all praise to Simkin and Sidowitz for casting this show the way they did.

[02:01:15] It's, it's, it's gorgeous and it is an absolute success. And yeah, I mean, if we're going to get an episode eventually where we have the exit of La'an, I am glad that we got such a deep cathartic episode for that character before that happened. So I'm, I mean, I do, I, I do really, really like this episode and I'm, I'm very grateful

[02:01:39] that they did take the time to address whatever it is her issue might be, which is how can I love both parts of myself or how can I function despite my darkness sort of a thing. So I'm, I'm very grateful for the episode for sure. How can I love my darkness? Yeah. Is what, how I would rephrase it. And I'm grateful for Alice coming on to talk to us about this episode. Yeah. You, Alice have, have also crushed it like masterful performance. Thank you for being here with us.

[02:02:09] Thank you so much for having me. Headphones really just right now. Anyway, thank you for having me. I would love your listeners to come over and take a, take a listen to Trex in the city. It is my favorite thing to do. Talk about Star Trek with me and my cohost Skylar and sometimes guests. We have a lot of really fun guests coming up. So now it'd be a good time to go over to your favorite platform and subscribe. We do have a Patreon as well.

[02:02:39] They, she only talks like that on the other side of the Patreon. This is the whole thing. It's for dogs. But yeah, we have a great time and, and yeah, give, give your ear balls a chance to hear it. And I know we've said this before, but Trex in the city might be the best name for a Star Trek podcast that anyone has ever come up with. It had to happen. And I'm glad it was me. Yeah. I mean, you, you have cornered that market and I, I applaud you for it, but.

[02:03:09] We are eventually going to run out of Star Trek and that is when we will start doing Sex in the City episodes. And we've already started. We've already, they've already started bleeding in. I like it. So. We did discuss covering the entire Marlena gets possessed by the devil arc from Days of Our Lives because the actor was in Star Trek. And then we found out that's 150 ish episodes of Days of Our Lives. So maybe. So you got to. Cha-ching baby. There we go. Your career's not over yet. There's runway.

[02:03:39] Oh man. But it has been a long night and the open Pike Night crew has a cranky offscreen cook to placate. So don't forget to clean up after yourselves. Don't forget to tip your servers and you can go anywhere that you want, even a flat earth fantasy world, but you can't stay here. You don't have to live happily ever after, but you don't have to live happily ever after, but you do have to live long and prosper. Not listening to this show after this moment in time.

[02:04:09] But then until next week.