Star Trek Pod Crawl - ST III “The Search For Spock”

[00:00:02] Welcome to Open Pike Night. This is a special episode as part of the Greatest Generation Star Trek Pod Crawl. So if this is your first time listening to Open Pike Night, we are the premier Star Trek Strange New Worlds call-in and interview podcast.

[00:00:17] You'll hear some folks calling in tonight and if you ever want to send a hail and lend your voice to our conversation about Strange New Worlds and all things Strange New Worlds adjacent, be sure to check us out at openpike.com for all the details on how you can do that. We can't wait to hear from you and we can't wait for you to hear our coverage of Star Trek III The Search For Spock.

[00:00:42] Hi, this is Robin Curtis and you're listening to Open Pike Night, the podcast which goes pop too far. Is this thing on? Hello? Hello?

[00:01:15] Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds podcast where your calls are the prime directive. I'm your host, John T. Boulds, here tonight to discuss that one time a Star Trek character came back to life. This is episode three of the Star Trek Pod Crawl. Be sure to check out all the other amazing hosts, The Greatest Generation, The Seventh Rule, Sci-Fi Sisters, Mission Log, Women at Warp, and Star Trek The Next Conversation.

[00:01:41] Be sure to go to StarTrekPodCrawl.com to support the NCSC. We are, of course, discussing what some have called the two towers of the original series trilogy, Star Trek III The Search For Spock. But before we discuss that, let me introduce my co-hosts, the man who you just know would be a riding crop wielding captain of whatever starship he was given, Jesse Bailey.

[00:02:06] You know that that would be completely a front, though, right? Like, I'm trying to cover up who I really am. Because I think we can all agree, of the three hosts here on Open Pike Night, I am the most human. And the man who, as soon as he saw Miguel Ferrer on the bridge of the Excelsior, began researching what other Twin Peaks cast members were in Star Trek. Host of Green Shirt, a newbie struck through the next generation, 500 Kelly Cameron Harrison.

[00:02:32] I pride myself in taking a punch, and I'll gladly take another, because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love. I love you, Producer John. There's a deep cut for you Twin Peaks heads out there. I'm so glad you brought that quote. I think Producer John may be the noblest part of Cameron. Oh, there's already enough fan fiction out there, guys. Stop. Stop.

[00:03:02] So, tonight, we are here to join a bunch of other great podcasts in discussing the original series movies. And we were not assigned Star Trek 3. We requested Star Trek 3. Oh, heck yeah, we did. And I was the deciding vote on that. And mainly it's because we've kind of discussed a lot of TOS movies in other formats. And I was like, you know what? Let's do one we haven't actually sat down and either partially or fully talked about before.

[00:03:27] And I think it's underrated. As underrated as any Star Trek movie can be, right? Like, they're all beloved. You know, the odd-numbered Star Trek movies being bad is a tongue-in-cheek joke. Like, there are no bad Star Trek movies because they're all Star Trek movies. Generations is my least favorite. I'll say that right here, but it's not a terrible movie. But it still has its moments. I am very excited to talk this one. I think it's a fascinating movie.

[00:03:56] I think it's just, whew, it's really interesting to talk about because I think it's a fantastic movie and kind of a terrible story. And we'll get into that. We've mentioned before that Star Trek is often elevated by performance and the actors involved. So yes, I'm very interested to hear what you have to say, Cameron.

[00:04:17] And right away, you guys, I'm going to ask you to plant a flag. Is TOS Movie Enterprise your favorite enterprise? Yes. Thank you. It is for me. Like, of all the enterprises? Yeah. No, the D, man. Really? Yes. Absolutely. This is the one I grew up with.

[00:04:39] And that's the thing is, I grew up, I did not watch any of, I saw four and six in the theaters and obviously generations. But like, yeah, man, the Enterprise D is my enterprise. Hands down. Fair. John likes the D. Yep. The big D. Yeah. I actually really like the Enterprise E because I feel like it looks more like a constitution class. Enterprise E kind of rules, man.

[00:05:05] It's kind of great. You know, I know there's some people, maybe even some people involved in this project here that don't love the E, but man, I really like it. But yeah, the movie refit, top tier for me. Now, I did watch this movie on Christmas Day. I felt like it was an appropriate movie for Christmas. Now you might say, Cameron, this is not a movie about the birth of a Christ figure.

[00:05:29] It's an Easter movie, Cameron. What are you talking about? I would like to present my case if I could for this. Go for it. We have a fruitcake reference. All right. Yeah. Very Easter-y. Sustained. Wait, I don't know. We have someone say, may all your guesses be right. Clearly a reference to may all your Christmases be white. Clearly. And most of all, the most Christmassy aspect of this film is Chekhov is wearing a Babes in Toyland outfit. So, I mean, case closed. Man.

[00:05:57] Search for Spock is a Christmas movie. Well, Kirk's wearing a ski suit later on, too. He's wearing a full-on 80s style ski lodge ski suit. So, yes, I'm with you, Cam. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this movie, I think, The Two Towers is kind of an interesting comparison there, John, for a lot of reasons, right?

[00:06:19] Like, it really is a continuation of what we had just seen. It really picks up where the last movie left off. But Star Trek movies have this very kind of unique ability that a lot of other franchises probably couldn't get away with, where they all kind of start with, last time in Star Trek the movie.

[00:06:36] And then, yes, it just works. Like, I'm very impressed with it. And I really like it. I mean, the captain's log, obviously, is a beautiful device. And the use of it throughout the entire franchise has been nothing short of masterful.

[00:06:51] But I think here, you know, starting a movie with a funeral is pretty ballsy. And I mean, there's so much to like about this movie, and we will get into it. But do you think if Spock were present for his own eulogy that he would push back on Kirk saying his soul was the most human? I mean, he spends most of TOS fighting against that kind of designation. I think he would just be like, classic Kirk.

[00:07:18] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Had McCoy been in his right mind, he would have like been struggling not to burst out laughing. Right. You troll. I'm standing right here, Jim. Right here. The most human soul you have ever known. Or he would have just said, burn. Miss burn, Captain.

[00:07:40] But this is the introduction that we get to one of Scotty's defining character traits, which is, of course, lying to his boss. And that's so endearing. And I really am hoping that we will get to see him learn that trick from Pellia in Strange New Worlds. Like, have her be like, look, you don't have to tell him how long it's actually going to take. You know, just it's the same joke. But as we all know, the more times you repeat a joke, the funnier it gets. Absolutely. Absolutely. Of course. I mean, especially in Star Trek. Why not?

[00:08:10] So let me tell you guys why this is a Christmas movie. Not everybody knows this, but Krug's Targ is actually named Rudolph. Oh, yeah. It just doesn't come. Yeah. Right. Was this the first Targ? I noticed that. Is this the first Targ we ever saw on Star Trek? Well, there was a TOS Targ. There was. Oh, that's right. The original. That's right. The OG. But I think this is the first punch up. Yeah.

[00:08:36] Is this the first Klingon woman we see in Star Trek? Did this begin the Klingon cleavage? It is not. There is a, I believe, I don't remember the name of the character, but I think in Day of the Dove, we meet a Klingon commander's wife. Because Kirk, there's some kind of alien that is messing with everybody's head, and I believe Kirk transports an entire Klingon crew over to the Enterprise to save them, which of course pisses them off.

[00:09:06] You know, I don't feel qualified to comment on that. That's fair. Please don't. But I mean, Krug, I'm going to spend a lot of this talking about Krug. Let's do it. Because he's a killer good villain.

[00:09:21] And his expression does not change when he realizes that he has to kill Vel'Kris, but his eyes do seem to fill up with what kind of amounts to tears for a Klingon, which I think is the first indication that we are about to get an all-time Klingon performance. Like, this guy, he's one of the bars, right? I don't know who this actor is, but he knocks it out of the park. He is just the bar of all Klingons. Yeah, when he just goes, unfortunate.

[00:09:51] It says so much. It's so good. Like, just this little backstory they throw into this. Like, they didn't need to do that, but it's so good and rich and fun. Do you think she actually had looked at it, or was she like, I'm done with this relationship? Whatever it takes to get this guy to stop calling up. Yeah. I've had that targ start licking my feet in the middle of Klingon coitus one too many times. I've told him, kick him out of the bedroom, but no. Krug needs his targ.

[00:10:20] Well, and it just, it really lays so much groundwork for all Klingons, right? Like, Valkyris is very honorable here. We see that in her performance. You have, like, Krug valuing the input of his officers, you know, even if, you know, some of them he has to disintegrate because they made a mistake. Lucky shot. So good. It's so good. The collaborative effort is not something we always see on a Klingon bridge, right?

[00:10:50] Like, he's asking opinions and he's saying, you know, what should we do? And it's just, there is so much good Krug in this. And do we ever hear the name Krug in the movie? Like, I feel like. At least once. I think when, I think the captain of the ship maybe says it, someone says it. But I didn't have to look up how to spell it. Kirk say it to him at some point? Oh, he may. No, he never tells Kirk his name. Yeah. Because he says Klingon commander. Oh, that's right. That's right. Constantly. Yeah.

[00:11:18] Because he says, who am I talking to? He's like, it doesn't matter who I am. And it's like, man, talk about dedication to this role. Like, he's just so in it. That's a good crew. That was a good impression, Jesse. Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I watched the hell out of this movie for the last two weeks to get ready for this. It has been a very long time since I saw this before this rewatch. I'm like, oh man, the whole, you know, make sure you feed my dog thing.

[00:11:45] Like, oh, this is where we get the character from Lower Decks. Like, this is absolutely Lower Decks took inspiration for this, for one of my favorite episodes and then storylines for the last three seasons of that show. It's like, oh yeah, okay. I completely forgot that there was even a Targ in this. And the guy goes all John, wake up for him. So, you know, it's understandable what he does. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm back. Oh God, Krug Wick.

[00:12:14] I would watch the hell out of it. I was wondering, I was going to ask you guys, who do you think was more upset? Kirk when he found out his son was killed. Krug when his Targ is killed. Or Scotty when he watches the Enterprise get blown up. Oh man. That's a tough one. They're all losing children. That's right. Yeah. That's tough. I mean, even Sarek at the end is like, you lost your ship and your son. Doesn't say son first. I know. It says ship first.

[00:12:43] He knows who he's talking to. Killed my Targ. Starg, bastard, killed my Targ. Yeah. And that's another moment. Krug cares about his crew. Like when he realizes they're going to die, he flips. He wants them to be safe. He wants them to get out of there. I just... Guys, I love Krug. Krug is maybe top three Klingons for me all time. Like so well done.

[00:13:11] I'm willing to bet some of our callers love Krug too. Yeah. Let's go ahead and hear from the first one. Here is our good buddy, Zoe. Haley, open Pike night. This is USS Cinema. Zoe Richardson, Captain Commanding. And I just want to say that there's a cultural wisdom of the original series of movies where every odd number movie is supposed to be the worst of the movies and the even number of

[00:13:38] movies are sometimes the best movie of any genre. But the thing that kind of screws up this calculation is Star Trek 3. It's actually a really good movie. It's a great bridge between Spock's death and resurrection. And when I covered it on Backlick Cinema, the podcast, I discovered that this movie is a lot better than what I remembered. And I just want to leave you with this.

[00:14:08] Uh, Admiral Kirk, you don't want to give me the Genesis device? Okie doke. Cinema out. On to a stretch of the world. Thank you, Sal. It may be the most specific impression joke ever on Open Pike Night. And Zoe and I discussed this on social media, but dude, you killed it. You absolutely nailed that.

[00:14:36] Yeah, that's the problem with this movie is it is a bridge. I don't know. I don't even think the two towers feels as much like just connecting to other stories than this does. At least like the two towers has Helm's Deep that you can focus on. Like, okay, this story has a beginning, middle and end within this movie. That's what the two towers is about. And the taming of Schmeagel and everything as well. For sure too. This just so many payoffs that were set up in the previous films. So many setups that are going to get paid off in the next film. Yep.

[00:15:04] It just, it doesn't feel like its own movie. Like, I don't know. I don't know whose movie this is. I don't know which character is the protagonist in this film. I just, I'll get more into it. But like, yeah, the story of they're not really even searching for Spock. No one's really searching for Spock. They just kind of stumble across him and he's there. Uh, I mean, Sarek is definitely searching for Spock. Well, he found him. He's in McCoy. Right.

[00:15:31] But he wants his son back, you know, he wants to make sure his Katra lives on. What does that mean? Let's just get into it then. What does that mean? Well, it means that much like fate in the Star Trek universe, souls are a real thing. Sure. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, this movie locks that in. Yeah. From everything he says, it just sounds like he needs McCoy to go there and to release Spock's soul in some ceremony.

[00:15:57] And Spock's soul will go off to Spock heaven and McCoy will be better. I don't know why they go looking for his body. Why do they go looking for his body? That is never made clear. The main, like everything they do is never set up or explained why they're doing it. The way, the reason I took that is Sarek saying, hey man, that body was supposed to come back to Vulcan. Like final resting place isn't supposed to be some Genesis planet. It's supposed to be Vulcan. That's what I took there as a reason for them going to get it.

[00:16:26] I love that the plot of this movie is basically, hey, you remember the most emotional scene from the last movie? That like iconic Star Trek cinematic sequence? Yeah. They boned that up. They shouldn't have done that. Yeah. I also love that they space balls in the middle of this movie, at the beginning of this movie. And they're like, let me watch the last movie and see what happened. What is the time limit for talking about where the cameras are in the enterprise? Go for it.

[00:16:55] So, and it seems like it would be an easy thing, right? For one of the new shows to say, you know, like, okay, go ahead and launch the record drones or something, right? Like put the cameras that follow the ship and everything it does for the official record, launch those. Cause we're about to have some stuff go down. I mean, well, it's a question that must be asked. Like, how did they get these angles? Let's not forget that while that was happening, the ship was not functioning. It was blown to hell.

[00:17:24] They were barely, they were limping through the nebula, but for some reason, the security cameras were recording an uninterrupted high def the entire time. Yep. I mean, it's, it's a little grainy, but yeah, no, I hear you. I hear you. Okay. Yeah. But it's just that Sarah can never says the thing about the body and the reason, cause I'm sure Starfleet would have let Kirk and McCoy go to Vulcan. The whole reason they don't let them is because apparently they're asking to go to Genesis, but it's never stated that they need to go get the body.

[00:17:53] No one ever says that it's, it's the goals in this are very murky. The stakes are pretty murky too. Like there's no ticking clock. It's not like small stakes to get them back there. Yeah. Like what happens if Kirk does, it gets caught stealing the enterprise. Yeah. He doesn't like being an admiral anyway. Well, the only reason he got demoted, you know, proactively to captain was cause he also saved the entire sector in the next movie.

[00:18:20] But I, I, I think Cameron that the answer here is that the main character of this movie is the crew. Like it is a collective title shared, right? Because it's, it's their grief process. How do they deal with this? Kirk deals with it by yelling at cadets and, and Scotty deals with it by really doubling down on his work. And, you know, the rest of them deal with it by saying, yeah, let's, uh, let's undo that.

[00:18:52] And, and I agree with you, Cam. It is a weird middle movie and you, you said, stated very well with payoffs here and payoffs there. But it, it's also a movie where two Starfleet vessels are completely destroyed. Another one is completely sabotaged by the crew. Like, man, this movie is all over the place for what really is just a funeral procession. I want to be clear.

[00:19:17] I think this movie is the definition of does not equal the sum of its parts because nearly every scene in this movie is perfect. Every scene is immensely watchable. They are so good. And that's why I'm like, it's a great movie. I can sit down and watch this movie and be like, oh yeah, the ravioli bugs. I forgot the ravioli bugs. Thank you. Thank you for calling them ravioli bugs. Yep. Yep. But yeah, at the end of the day, I'm like, what did I just watch? What was it about? Who knew what, when? Ah, okay.

[00:19:47] Who the hell was this Klingon? Where did he come from? What is his motivation? Like, yeah. For me, more than Wrath of Khan, which is obviously a continuation of a story from a TOS episode. Sure. I feel like this and the motion picture are the TOS movies that feel most like a long episode of the show, right? Which is a label we've heard thrown at a lot of Star Trek movies. And sometimes derisively. But you guys know me. I'm here for that. Give me long episodes of Star Trek.

[00:20:17] I don't care. Like, especially with the TOS crew, this kind of stuff happens a lot. Where like, some stuff is unclear and it's okay because we love these characters. And I think that that's probably where kind of the cultural reevaluation of this movie comes from is, like, is it the strongest of the original movies? No. Nobody's here to say that. But is it good? Yeah. It's totally watchable.

[00:20:43] Like you said, Cameron, like, I had a blast watching back through this movie, even though I knew there's not going to be any Borg Queen in it. There's not going to be Khan. There are no whales to be found. Like, I was absolutely glued to my screen. I will say it's the only original cast movie that I know exactly where it falls in my placement and never changes. I could see that. All the others kind of mingle around.

[00:21:07] But I know that this one is better than Motion Picture and number five and not quite as good as the other three. So it's a firm third place for me. Well, and, you know, one of the great things, because this movie does a lot for the future of Star Trek, one of the best things it does, I think, is in the toast at Kirk's apartment where Sulu first establishes that Star Trek pilots dress better than anyone on the crew when they're not on duty.

[00:21:37] So much riz. So much. I am happy to plant this flag. Sulu's coat is better than Lando Calrissian's cape. At me if you feel like it. No. And you're not wrong, because then we get to see a Star Wars scene in Star Trek with McCoy at the bar where they're like, we really want a cantina scene in this movie. Seriously. And we get a Lando Calrissian type character in the security guy. I'm like, nah. Oh. No.

[00:22:06] I wrote that Lando Calrissian arrests McCoy 100%. And if you want to ask questions, Cameron, about Star Trek, like, where did McCoy get money? I thought this was a post-money society. Like, what is happening? Well, clearly the guy he's talking to is not Starfleet, so. Right. Now, the guy he's talking to, our good friend Patrick at It's Got Star Trek, refers to this alien as a proto-Ferengi. What do you guys think about that? I mean, he's clearly interested in money.

[00:22:35] He's got big ears. He talks kind of funny, like, is this the birth of the Ferengi alien? Fuck no. No. You don't think so? No. It's not looking anything like great. Oh, someone likes money? I think the human race is a sign that not just Ferengi like money. Well, he's, you know, obviously not a human. No. This guy is too cool. The big ears, the crazy teeth. I mean, he is cool. I want him to be his own race, for sure. Absolutely. You can't deny that he's cool, for sure.

[00:23:02] He looks like a deal or no deal guy from Little Monsters. Howie Mandel? Yes. He looks like the Howie Mandel monster. That's who he reminds me of. It just occurred to me. But we have brought up a lot of these costumes, so let's go ahead and see if our caller Abby has anything to say about those. Hey, open pike. It's Abby Summer from the First Flight Podcast. Okay, I know you guys are going to do all the plot points for Search for Spock, so I'm going to come in with a traditional Abby take on costumes.

[00:23:32] Holy cow for being from the future. This is a piece that is 100% rooted in the time period it came out in. First of all, the uniforms, while incredibly difficult for cosplayers, they are pretty amazing. Like, who can object to Monster Maroons? And those collars and that bomber jacket, fantastic. Now, I also have to say I really appreciate how many pockets there are on all of these costumes. One of the reasons I love the Enterprise uniform so much is space to put your stuff.

[00:24:02] I am one of those people who need stuff. I need pockets. I appreciate it. This movie is full of pockets, and I absolutely love it. And just a little aside here, the hair. The curls on Savick and on Uhura are just a time capsule. I love them. I've always wished I had curly hair. It's never going to happen, even in the 80s when I tried to get a perm it didn't take. So I am so envious of the curliness of the hair of the women in this.

[00:24:31] I mean, everybody has the great hair, the side swoops, the big parts. It's fantastic. But this is a movie that tugs at your heart for many ways. But my little costume loving heart loves this one for the futuristic time capsule of the time it was in. So I hope this finds you well. I hope this gives you a smile. And we'll talk soon. I love the clothes in this. Chekhov's Babes in Toyland outfit notwithstanding.

[00:25:01] But everyone else looks amazing. I really hope that we see in Strange New Worlds, if they ever introduce Hulu, that we see Ortegas give him this jacket. That would be a nice little moment. Oh, that would be awesome. And then I just want to mention, I love that Kirk is out here action heroing the whole movie in this pink blouse. It just reminds me of Kurt Russell in Big Trouble in Little China with the lipstick on. And like, you know what? Let's embrace our feminine masculinity and own it.

[00:25:28] And I love how nobody brings up the little security guy's helmets. Because obviously they were in the middle of playing some sport. Because surely that wouldn't be somebody's actual uniform, right? Right. And like, what do you need a helmet for if your job is sitting at a console? I mean, I get that you're in space. I fully get it. But like, come on. And of course, you know, the Spock resurrection robe. Like, he spends the entire next movie in this outfit. And it's elegant.

[00:25:58] It's simple. It's got the geometric patterns. Like, the Vulcan ceremonial costumes. Like, there really is so much to look at with regard to clothing in this movie. And I completely agree with you, Abby. It is a time capsule, but in the best possible way. Like, I mean, everybody knows the Star Trek uniforms from Wrath of Khan forward are the best uniforms ever put on screen. But there's no arguing with that.

[00:26:28] So what else is a fact that we learn here is that apparently Vulcan burial robes don't include underwear. So do you think his resurrection robe included underwear? Is he just freeballing it all throughout the voyage home? Does he swim in the robe when he's with the whales? Or does he have like... No, he's in underwear. Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah. Okay. But it could be that he tore part of the lining of the robe to fashion some underwear for sure. They bury him half naked, resurrect him with underwear. Got it.

[00:26:58] Makes sense. Makes sense. I love that at the end credits for this, I mean, Spock really locking in the most number of actors to play the same character across 60 years of Star Trek. Five different actors play Spock in this, which I think means that Robin Curtis as Savick has acted against more Spocks than anybody else has.

[00:27:21] Because she's the only one who has scenes with some of these iterations of Spock throughout the movie, including scary rubber face Spock there at the end. Oh, man. Yeah. And the teenage Spock that they got is a dead ringer for Mark Leonard's Sarek. Like, they nailed the casting on these characters. They did a good job. I was incredibly, incredibly impressed with that. Now, there's two things I want to bring up here. The first one is DeForest Kelly's impression of Leonard Nimoy.

[00:27:50] Like, masterful. Of course it would be, right? They've worked together for so long, their characters interact constantly. But, like, his moments as Spock are very well done. I mean, when he attempts that nerve pinch and it does not work. So good. The movie handles comedy really well in a very solemn story. I wanted to point out, I think, like, the Star Trek, especially the movies specifically, are undervalued for just how funny they are.

[00:28:20] They are written and performed. Like, this crew, this cast is so funny and they write them so well for that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think A Discovered Country is a comedy almost through and through. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But we do have a screaming adolescent child and a planet that is falling apart. Did Spock invent the burn from Star Trek Discovery? I mean, that's... That's basically the same plot, right? I...

[00:28:50] This is not an important note, but I am happy to see the Tribbles get, you know, some big screen love in this movie. It's such an integral part of Star Trek lore, which is insane considering that they had originally one episode. Yeah. And the franchise was like, yeah, let's stick with that. It's the easiest effect in the world. The legs on Tribbles for something that doesn't have legs. Like, man, do they have staying power. Seriously. Seriously. And you get... I mean, this movie...

[00:29:20] All of Star Trek is quite self-referential, right? It calls back to other things. But, like, for Kirk to use Kobayashi Maru as the codename for this mission of stealing the Enterprise and going to find Spock is, like... It's subtle. It's... I mean, for Star Trek fans, it's not subtle. But, like, textually, it's a subtle thing. Like, yes, this is probably a no-win scenario. I'm going to do it anyway because that's who I am. And it just really, really works.

[00:29:50] And, you know, I'm going to... Instead of good luck, I think I'm going to start saying all my hopes. Because Uhura has more grace than 90% of characters I have ever seen in filmed media. Like, she says three little words and you're like, man, I hope they pull this off for her. Like, heck with the rest of these guys. Like, I hope she gets what she wants. I really keyed in on that line, too.

[00:30:17] I was like, oh, that was as good as live long and prosper. May the force be with you. Why don't more Star Trek people say that? I really hope we get to hear Celia say it at some point. That would be a great kind of callback, callforward. I don't... Maybe she has. I don't know. But, yeah, that whole scene with Uhura, I was like, I could 100% see Celia playing this. And that's how you know, like, she is playing a great Uhura and that this scene is a great Uhura scene. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm just... I think we're going to plant my flag here.

[00:30:46] But first, let's hear from another caller. Here is Sincera. What's up, OpenPikeKnight? I love the fact that not only are you guys doing an episode about Star Trek III The Search for Spock, but you're doing a charity episode about it. And that just makes my heart live longer and prosper. I have a special relationship with this movie because I was hoodwinked growing up into believing that all of the odd-numbered Star Trek films were bad. And my father wouldn't even let us rent them.

[00:31:15] So I only grew up seeing Wrath of Khan, The One with the Whales, and Undiscovered Country. So I felt like I always had a gap in my knowledge of Star Trek. Because there was, you know, we consider the trilogy in the middle. And I was missing the middle of the trilogy just because my dad said it wasn't good. So I didn't see Search for Spock until I was an adult. And when those gaps were finally filled in, it became one of my favorites in the franchise.

[00:31:40] There are so many good and memorable parts of it, especially the introduction of the Excelsior and the Excelsior class, which I love that ship. I've named my work truck after it. There's just great comedy, especially seeing DeForest Kelly play both roles as Spock and Dr. McCoy in a sense. And that's what you get for missing staff meetings, Doctor, are great little moments.

[00:32:08] And the one that sticks, of course, in my mind is, Gentlemen, your work today has been exemplary, and I recommend you all for promotion. In whatever fleet we may end up serving. Best speed in Genesis. I wish I had more chances to use that in everyday life. Live long and prosper, my dudes. Talk to you soon. All right. And like Steve mentioned, this is a recording for a cause. So if you love the idea of a Star Trek future, join with other fans and supporting science education at StarTrekPodCrawl.com.

[00:32:37] That is StarTrekPodCrawl.com. That's the reason we are all here today discussing Star Trek 3, which I think I like more than Star Trek 2. Whoa. Whoa. Especially because I think Krug, just this random Klingon, gets more, he drives the knife in deeper for Kirk than Khan ever is able to. It's true. Like he does more, this random Klingon flies in after Khan does his thing.

[00:33:07] He's like, nah, I can do this better. Just because I'm having a, just because I want to. Not decades of revenge build up or anything. He's a much more equal opposing force to Kirk. Yeah. Right? Because he's from this world. And that's Khan's downfall, right? Is that he's from the past and he doesn't think in three dimensions and he doesn't know, you know, like all of the new things that are possible. Krug absolutely does.

[00:33:34] He, I mean, and at every single turn, he confounds Kirk in such a subtle but effective way. Like, he's like, you know, send the Vulcan up too. And he goes, no. And Kirk says, well, why not? And he says, because you wish it. And it's like, that's all you need as a villain. Just obstruct whatever the other guy wants. You know, like it seems basic, but it's actually very tactically sound. And I, I gotta, I gotta say Steve's dad, what are you doing, man?

[00:34:04] Open the fire hose, let your kid watch it all and then decide what they like. Look, I'm so like suddenly up in arms because I had kind of the opposite experience where my dad was like, you can watch this first movie, but be aware that if you like it, you have to watch the next five or six movies. Yeah. To smoke the whole pack of Star Trek. Yeah, seriously, like you're going to be so done with this.

[00:34:29] And I, I am glad to hear that, you know, much like myself, a lot of folks are giving this film the credit that it is due. It, there's a lot here to be happy with. And I'm, I'm very excited for that. One of the things I'm happy with is the mind meld scene between Sarek and Kirk, because it is shot like a lovemaking scene with like the fire backlighting them and the extreme close upon its mouth. This, this just, it's a really good scene. Yeah. Credit to Leonard Nimoy.

[00:34:57] I mean, the guy, I mean, obviously knows Vulcan's better than anyone, right? He understands what intimacy means in that world. And it shines through in a lot of this movie. And the, the Star Trek universe has all these maneuvers, right? We love a good maneuver. The Picard maneuver is momentarily jumping to warp so that your ship appears to be in two places at once.

[00:35:20] The Riker maneuver is using the Ram scoop to collect Metreon gas and ram it down the Sona's throat. So is a one quarter impulse K turn out of space dock, the Sulu maneuver? I love slow speed chases. It works. It works. And, you know, I get that they're, they're like, haha, making a joke of the Excelsior's expense.

[00:35:48] But it's like the captain of that is not a bad captain. I love, I love that his response to yellow alert is like, how can we be a yellow alert? We are docked. Like, what is going on? Like, I, I really do. I want to give credit. I enjoy the crew of the Excelsior. I think it's, you know, it's like, yeah, they have to, you know, the joke has to be at their expense, but it's like nothing about that crew tells me they are incompetent in any way.

[00:36:14] They're overconfident maybe, but not like they're a good crew and it's a good ship as long as you don't take a couple pieces out of it. Well, and I mean, it arguably mirrors Kirk. He's overconfident in this movie. Like, you know, he decides I'm going to do this thing. I'm not going to follow orders. I'm definitely going to pull this off. And sure. Yeah. He manages to pull it off, but it costs him dearly. So I think it is a nice little piece of parallel.

[00:36:40] And I, you know, I don't like to disagree with colors, but I do not like the Excelsior look. I just, I think I'm not supposed to because it is so different than what we're used to with the Enterprise. Otherwise, and that works for me. Like, I don't really like the design of it. You know, all respect to the Enterprise B and generations and everything, but I, between the two, there's no contest in my mind.

[00:37:09] Well, speaking of Kirk's confidence, I want to go back to the Sarek scene a bit. Because again, this is like the moment where he's like, Kirk, you need to bring my son's Katja back to this temple. I'm like, okay, we're going on some weird spirit quest for the Star Trek movie. Okay, we got that. So is this the hero's journey? And I just love, because if so, this is the extent of the hero's refusal of the call in this movie. Kirk, it'll be difficult. Sarek, you must do this. Kirk, I will. And then he spikes the camera.

[00:37:40] I swear. And it's, all right, we're off. That was the reluctant hero moment, the line of his. The refusal doesn't always have to be 15 scenes long. It's okay. But damn, does he spike the camera in that shot. Oh, man, I swear. And then just holds it. Like they're waiting to go to commercial. There's maybe no Star Trek movie that is more Shatner than this one, right? Like maybe not even the ones he directed.

[00:38:07] So in the special features, they talk about like, you know, this is Leonard Nimoy deciding to direct and the studio wants him to direct. And he's very excited. And there's an interview with Shatner where he goes, yeah, I was working on a police TV show at the time. And Leonard came to me and I taught him everything he knows about directing. Everything that he accomplished, he owes to me. And I'm like, he's too dry. I can't tell if he means that or if he's like poking at Leonard Nimoy, right?

[00:38:37] Like a friend would do. Because it's like, you've got a legendary ego, man. I can't tell if this is. Little column A, little column B. Yeah, it's half and half, but it is absolutely there. Speaking of Kirk's stairs, I do love shortly after that, when he's talking to the Admiral, I love anytime you can see in a character's or actor's face, like the plan formulating. And when he just looks off to the right and stares and is ignoring the Admiral and you're like, oh, you're devising the whole heist right here in this five second stare. That's amazing.

[00:39:06] I love that. But I also kind of wish we had gotten the scene where they planned the whole Ocean's Eleven heist and were like, all right, someone go get McCoy and let's do this. Oh, actually, he just got arrested. All right. Back to the drawing board. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it works as is. Oh, no, it's fine. But at some point that happened to them. Right. It's probably in the novelization. Let's be honest. There you go. Probably. It serves to show Kirk's dedication to Spock, right? Yeah.

[00:39:36] He knows all that. He knows that he's risking a war for this one person who, to his mind, is not alive. And it's worth it. It's worth it to him. And he jeopardizes the careers of his entire crew for it, which, you know, they all go willingly. But I think that that is, you know, Cameron, maybe the core of this is that it's actually a love story.

[00:39:59] And that's, you know, it doesn't read necessarily as an adventure or as a heist or anything like that. It's a love story between Kirk and Spock. Anyway, what I do like about what you just said is that what I like about this series of films is unlike the Mission Impossible series of films, which I also like. But it's like, I think everyone but one Ethan Hunt is like going rogue, right?

[00:40:26] There's only one where he's actually just on an IMF mission that he's supposed to be on. And I like that this is really the only one where this crew goes against Starfleet and like has to hijack a ship from Starfleet. And so it really makes what we haven't really talked much about yet. But the standout sequence of this film, the stealing of the Enterprise, really stand out. And again, like, I don't think the whole movie works as a story.

[00:40:54] But this sequence makes this film like rise above many, many other films of its kind. Yeah. Yeah. Don't they steal the bird of prey at the beginning of the next movie? Don't they go back to Earth and then have to steal it again? Or are they sent? No. No, they're just headed back to Earth when everything's going down. Well, we're in a position to help. Okay. I think I'm maybe confounding a couple movies in my head. Possibly. Still, they steal the bird of prey. I guess so, yeah. They trade for it with blood.

[00:41:23] But I mean, yes. So speaking of birds of prey, the reworked Klingon theme when Krug attacks the Grissom is a really nice touch. And it's interesting to me because it's like a little more chaotic version of the Klingon theme than we're used to. Which I think is interesting because Krug is much less chaotic than Klingon captains that we're used to. He's very calculated. And I mean, he's big, right?

[00:41:52] Like he's dramatic, but he's not chaotic. He has a very clear mission and like a set of ideals and set of actions that he performs. So it's like, I like that it is almost inviting you to reevaluate how you view Klingons. Because I mean, they're incredibly one note in the original series for the most part. So I think that this is the beginning of, you know, let's look a little deeper into these broad archetypes that we've built for our aliens here.

[00:42:22] But it is also a reminder, as I've stated before, that the Klingons are very metal. I mean, he's on this planet. This thing is trying to kill him. He crushes the life out of it and then radios up and goes, nothing happening down here. I don't know. He pokes it. He grabs it. Like, it's not messing with him. He's like, let's see what this thing's like. I'll show my dominance over the single cell organism. Yeah. That has blood somehow. Now, yeah.

[00:42:52] Bacteria. What kind of shithole planet is this? Well, let's go ahead and listen to another caller. This is odd. It's not actually a recorded call. It is a live caller. We have first time caller Robin to Open Pike Night. Robin, welcome to the Open Pike Night stage. This would be Robin Curtis. Hey! Hey! I decided to check you dudes out. What are you doing? What are you doing on Open Pike Night today?

[00:43:21] It's a pleasure to have you here to talk about Search for Spock. That's what we happen to be talking about right now. Oh, oh, oh! Fantastic! Okay, I like it. I know a little something about that subject. Yeah, well, let's start at the beginning a little bit. What was your knowledge or relationship with Star Trek when you got that audition? Oh, boy. You guys didn't know, but that's a loaded question. Oh, good.

[00:43:48] No, well, so, yeah, I was coming of age when Star Trek was on the television and hormones pulsing and, you know, the sexual revolution was kind of unfolding around us. And my older brother by two years. So let's see, it came out in 66, right? So that puts me at 10 and my brother at 12. And he loved it.

[00:44:17] Like, he got it. He understood the allegory, the storytelling, the technology, the science. That's all the stuff he was grooving on. But I'm watching it and I'm paying attention to the sexual tension between Kirk and every single woman every week. You know, whether it was an alien or whether it was an earthling or whatever the hell it was, you know, there she was, this gorgeous blonde or brunette with, you know, teased up

[00:44:44] hair and a low bodice and a mini skirt and boots on. And I'm hearing Nancy Sinatra in my head, you know, these boots are made for walking. So, no, I'm blathering on. But the truth is, I was so electrified by those storylines. And in fact, in recent times, like during the pandemic, I went back and I watched some of those earliest episodes for the very first time.

[00:45:13] The second time in all those decades. And they were exactly as I remembered, you know, Plato's stepchildren and the, you know, the sadistic alien, you know, torturing Kirk and Uhura to kiss one another. And their lips are just inches apart. And she's struggling and he's struggling and they want to, but they don't, but they do, but they don't. And the same thing with Nurse Chapel and Spock and then Spock and Marriott Hartley in the

[00:45:41] cave, you know, I mean, all these, all these erotic moments, uh, uh, uh, you know, that was the level I vibrated on with the show. And, and, and, and as corny as that sounds and, and all the, all the, the philosophy and, and thoughtful storytelling caught up with me much later.

[00:46:05] You know, the fans, uh, schooled me, uh, uh, in, in the night, late 1980s and early 1990s as to what Gene was all about. And I came to espouse and embrace his philosophies, his humanist philosophies. And, and to this day, you know, the dude captured my, my heart, my, my inner, uh, conscience, if you will, uh, with his thoughts, infinite differences and infinite combinations, tolerance,

[00:46:36] inclusivity. I love everything Star Trek stands for. And, uh, every now and then I dip back into that erotic pot, uh, uh, uh, with Star Trek, but, but now I, I get it on a much higher level, uh, than I did when I was 10, 11, 12 years old. Um, and I'm particularly, you know, tickled pink that, that I got to, that I got to say, I get to say I did Spock in the cave. Thank you. That makes me quite happy.

[00:47:06] We were, I was like, yeah, we were about to ask about that. Yep. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Kids. That was big. And, and of course we know I can finally talk about it. But we know how lovely, how lovely recent, um, uh, creative things have unfolded. Uh, and I'm talking about unification. Mm-hmm. Um, I call it unification for, for short because I can never remember is it 7, 4, 5, 8, 7, 6, or is it 7, 6, 5, 8, 7, 4? The numbers, right? That, that, that preceded.

[00:47:36] 8, 6, 7, 5, 3, 0, 1? There you go. Yeah. Right. Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I felt all those years ago, you know, it was, it was kind of sad that they left and unfortunate that they left a, such a, such a yummy plot point on the, on the cutting room floor. Hmm.

[00:47:57] And, and, uh, I, I think that Jules Erbach is, is, is just uncannily brilliant in, in the way, in, in just a matter of seconds, you know, in minutes altogether, less than 10 minutes. He, without words, for the most part, without dialogue, let's put it that way.

[00:48:20] He, he, he gave, he gave my character a full bodied life and, and in it, he gave life to that plot point, you know, that something did come of it, that, that, that, that, that perhaps Spock and Savick had a life that they, that they gave birth to a son. And now you see her, uh, uh, uh, having lived a good life and her son standing there with

[00:48:47] her, uh, at the end of Spock's life. Again, I'm talking about unification. Yeah. Um, for those of you who, who might not have seen it. Uh, and, and it was just such a gift. It was a gift, I think, to the, to the fans. It turns out I had no idea that would mean so much to them. Um, it was a gift to, to, I think, to, to Bill Shatner and, and, and Kirk really to play that out, to play that scene out.

[00:49:14] It was a spectacular gift to me and to Mark Chinnery who played, uh, the, uh, my son, uh, Sam Witwer was, I thought absolutely brilliant. I'm just so grateful to all, to all the people that had to say yes to make that happen. Um, Susan Nimoy and, and, and Rod Roddenberry and, and, and, and Bill William Shatner and,

[00:49:37] and the director Carlos Baina was so sensitive and so, so emotional in his direction. And I think he got the best of the actors and I'm even including the background actors. I got to tell you guys, we stood out in that sun and those people, those people brought it. They gave us beautiful, solemn, reverential context. And it was lovely. And Carlos was directing all of us, not just me, not just Mark, not just Sam, but all of

[00:50:06] us, uh, to be present in that solemn moment. I, I, I just can't say enough. And I, and I think it, I think it's gonna live in me a long time. I'm still digesting how, how epic it's been for me personally. How did you feel when they reached out with the, uh, offer to come do that? And how quickly did you say yes? I, I went back to my emails because I remembered it in the late spring, but it was actually January

[00:50:32] of 2024 when I got an email from Ethan Teller and he, he works with the Roddenberry archetypes, but he works with Otoy. He's a producer. And, and he felt, he was feeling me out. Hey, this is who we are. And we're going to be doing this thing. And we would love Savick to be involved. And I'm thinking, oh, oh, they want to get me talking about my experience before I croak. Right. Because, because maybe, you know, when you hear the word archives, you know, you think,

[00:51:02] oh, this is going to be memorialized for all time. Uh, and given that Kirstie Alley left us a little over a year ago, you know, you know, again, you know, maybe they're just trying to, to get everybody recorded to memorialize our experiences with the franchise. And it wasn't that at all, although they did do a lovely interview, but no, I, I, my awareness of what this was and what he was offering actually unfolded over a period of months. And I don't even know that once I, of course I agreed to do it immediately.

[00:51:31] I said, oh, you had me at hello. Um, yes, wherever you want me to go, what time, when I'll be there, you know? Uh, and so six months later at all, all the bits aligned and they had me out to Pasadena and we shot it in the Huntington gardens. So such a pretty setting. And, and it wasn't until they were putting a wig on me and aging me and adding prosthetics to my face. And they put me in this stunning regal confection.

[00:51:59] I mean, this, the fabric, I, you cannot compliment the people who worked on this, the team from the makeup to the hair, to the, to the costuming enough, their expertise and excellence. I'm telling you, I put on that dress and I was, I was Savick. I, I, I immediately felt years of life, uh, you know, in my, in my spirit, I was her. It was like, whoa.

[00:52:25] And such a gift to, to do that with, with the trappings of your character. And I just stayed, I just stayed willing. Do you know what I mean? You just come to something like that with an open heart and say, yeah, just show me what you want. Show me what you want. You know, I made it clear to Carlos, just like I did to Mr. Nimoy. You just, you just tell me what to do. I'm a Gumby. I'm all yours, you know? And, and, and I, and I did struggle a little bit, you know, with how emotional to be at

[00:52:52] this point in her life, seeing, seeing Shatner again and what, you know, Kirk again and what that would mean. Um, but I thought, you know, she's earned, I felt she had earned the right to be genuinely emotional in that moment, delicately. So understatedly, so, but nevertheless, very emotional. And I just decided that would be okay.

[00:53:21] I thought Mr. Nimoy is going to be okay with this. He's not going to, cause you know, he, he used to, he would, um, chastise me just a little bit, you know, lovingly and gently when he was directing me about, Oh, Oh, no, take that breath out of there. Oh, no, no, no. You know, dryer, dryer. Yeah. Like, like, you know, he, he, he's just trying to, trying to like hurting cats and to get me to show no emotion whatsoever. But I felt, uh, for Carlos, I, I, I felt like after 400, I don't know how old Savick is in

[00:53:50] that moment, but it seemed like they were telling me I was something like 385 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. She, she, she can, she can let her hair down a little bit with those emotions, you know? So anyway. Well, if I may, you did not look a day over 350. I think it was, it was very well done. And so I was watching some of your interviews on the special features of search for Spock. And it's interesting that you brought up that emotionality because I think maybe the most

[00:54:19] emotional scene that you had in search for Spock is toward the end on the planet. Spock is now fully grown. He's back to being Nimoy and he kind of walks up and acknowledges Savick. And you were in your interview, you mentioned that the way he coached that with you was imagine that you are encountering a lover you haven't seen for years on the subway. How would you react? And like, I mean, how many people can say they learned how to be a Vulcan from Leonard Nimoy? Right.

[00:54:48] So is there anything from that experience that you found difficult to get back to? Or like you said, was it just slipping right back in? You were like, here's how, here's who Savick is. I felt like all the professionals around me, Jules, Jules' conception of this moment, in addition to the person he chose to direct it, in addition to the actors around me and the team that presented me.

[00:55:18] It was like being given a gift on a platter. I had no problem snapping back in to that character. They gave her life. It was like resuscitation. It was the most beautiful resuscitation. I think I didn't betray her or the Vulcan culture. You know? I completely agree. The Vulcan mystique. Yeah. You absolutely nailed it.

[00:55:50] Again, 41 years, you know? 1984 was when the film was released, but it was shot in 83. So it's been 41 years, you know, that that character was sort of lost to me. And it was always just a little sad thing. But, you know, you suck it up and, you know, the challenge in life is to carry your losses with as much dignity and grace as you can, you know? And I had processed it.

[00:56:20] I was good. I've often said to the fans, you know, that interacting with them and all the connections and friendships that I feel I've made over the years, that experience has far eclipsed the original work itself. Do you know what I mean? As to what it means to me in my life. The work got me there to be able to meet so many wonderful human beings in our world.

[00:56:46] But it's been those rich friendships and connections that have come to mean the most in my life. So to have this come back this way and bookend these marvelous friendships I've made was, again, it was just like a gift I didn't see coming. I didn't expect it. Never expected it, honestly. Because fans ask often, would you play Savick again if anybody asked? And I'm like, shit, yeah. Of course I would.

[00:57:15] Oh, my God. You know, I mean, it's not a dumb question, but it's an easy one to answer. But I always made it clear, guys, nobody's going to be reaching out to me to do that. But thank you. Thank you for even thinking that that could be possible. But I know better. And so, yeah, nobody was more gobsmacked than me that this happened, that this lovely little beautiful thing happened. That's awesome. Yeah. Now, I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere.

[00:57:45] I haven't done a deep dive on a researching search for Spock yet. Was it ever discussed on set that you might be conceiving a child with Spock? I mean, was that part of the scene? Well, it was actually in the script of four, at the top of four, when she says adieu to the crew. There was some dialogue there. And in fact, I don't have my script any longer.

[00:58:12] But in the interview piece that the archives did with me, they put on the screen a snippet of dialogue that addressed this very thing between Kirk and myself. And to be honest, guys, it's been so long. I don't believe it was ever shot. I don't think it was ever shot. But if it was, it was edited out. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Yeah. So somewhere along the line, they just, because even Harv Bennett, he was sweet.

[00:58:40] The producer, the writer, he sent me telegrams at the start of each shoot, both for three and four. And in the four telegram, he says, bring along an obstetrician. So it was cute. It was cute. You know, he's being cute. And so it was there. We're not crazy. But then, but then, you know, as, as, as creative licenses does, it was, it was taken out. Yeah.

[00:59:11] I know it was a long time ago, but I always like to ask, looking back at your time on Search for Spock, is there a moment, something you did, something you brought that you can point at and say, that was me. Without me in that role, this part, this moment would never have happened the same way. Oh, good gravy. I don't know if I would say that. Do you know what I mean?

[00:59:33] I have always struggled with my work in the film because I never felt like I put it on and I went, yeah, I got this. That was not a feeling that I had. Not day one, not day 59. Do you know what I mean? So, so that is not how I would look at my work, to be honest on it. You know, like, like, oh yeah, I kicked ass in that moment or that's me or yeah. Oh, wow. I just really brought it home.

[01:00:04] So, so I'm sorry. I, I mean, you know, if anything, it, I think I just really appreciate the moment you called out. Wait a minute. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to contradict myself right out of the gate here. Heck yeah. So I love the moment. I love the moment that you called out with regard to recognizing Spock again at the end of the film. Right. Right. Um, after he's gone through the ritual.

[01:00:32] Uh, but I also, I do feel very special about what Steve Manley and I did in the gate because, because, you know, we, we were very, uh, you know, I had legitimate concerns and anxiety about what, what Vulcan foreplay looks like and what does the beginning of Ponfar, you know, what does that represent? And we didn't know what we would be touching and what parts of us would be touching.

[01:01:00] And so, and so when the day came and Leonard took us aside and he showed us this really simple finger play, which by the way, I'm embarrassed to say, I didn't know preexisted that moment. I didn't know that it had been done a couple of times and captured on film with other Vulcans. I thought we were creating this, this moment for the first time. In any case, uh, he and I, you know, I mean, I, I suppose somebody might think it's, it's a,

[01:01:27] it's a silly little trite little moment to rub fingers like that. Oh boy. Uh, but he and I were so, so committed to giving that the significance it deserved and that, that, that, that it wasn't the least bit silly and as simple as it was, it was big, you know? And I, I like to think that he and I invested that moment with the seriousness and the respect that it deserved. He was so lovely and present.

[01:01:54] And you're always grateful when an actor is giving you that, you know, when they're giving you their full presence, eye to eye, you know, spirit to spirit, soul to soul. I I'm here. I got you. He, he, he was that actor. I think that the, the level that you both brought that to is what leads to. Yeah. You know, 30 or 40 years of fandom going, well, did more happen? Because it's very emotionally charged. You guys killed that.

[01:02:24] And I mean, your character, this is not a question, but your character has some of the most emotionally charged moments in the entire film. You're telling Kirk that his son is dead. And like, even in that moment, Robin, you balance that so well because you can see the pain in Savick and, and just the sorrow, but she knows that she has a job to do and that she needs to maintain her professional demeanor. I mean, again, it's not a question.

[01:02:53] I'm just telling you, you killed it. Yeah. Oh, Jesse. Well, so I'm curious. Did you guys, did you guys pick up on Sam's performance as, as Bill, as Kirk? He was taking all of that in, in that moment that he recognizes me, that the history we had, that, that his son died to save me, that as I, as I indicate or gesture to the man standing

[01:03:20] behind me, that he wouldn't exist if your son hadn't died for me? Uh, I mean, did, did, did, did, did you, I mean, do you pick up on all that in that, in unification? I was impressed with how much we could read in the eyes of Kirk and how it felt like Shatner. Like it, I know knowing that it wasn't Shatner threw me off for like the first two minutes maybe. And then I was like, but this guy totally gets it.

[01:03:49] Like he's a consummate actor and it's, it's very impressive. And I, I agree with you, like to, to kind of bookend this story that has been left open for 40 years. It's like the, the courage that it takes to do that as a creative is huge. And I'm, I'm, I'm very impressed with how it ended up. Like, like I said, going into it, I was like, I don't know about this. And by the end of it, I was like, all right, it works. I'm there. It absolutely does. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:19] So kudos, huge bravos to Otoy and the Roddenberry archives, man, and the whole team that they hired and Carlos and all of them. I mean, seriously, these, these dudes, you know what? You could tell that they, they loved and admired star Trek period. And, and so they, they were going to bring their best talents and their best brain and heart and soul to, to, to, to, to those few minutes. They work.

[01:04:48] Oh, and the music, the music. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yes. Oh, oh, you know what I did the other day? I, I, I wanted to write something. I'm, I'm actually writing. I'm going to get emotional. I'm writing a letter of gratitude. That's long overdue to jewels. And I just, I just had the music, the audio of the film, eight minute film playing again and again, because it's so stirring. It's so moving. It makes me cry. Just thinking about it.

[01:05:19] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I loved it. And that, I think that was the most common comment online. And I, I didn't really spend a lot of time scrolling. Um, cause I just don't, and I, I get nervous with Facebook and social media, but everybody, it seems the cutest comment was I'm not crying. You're crying. You know, anyway, I'm glad you got this opportunity. I'm glad you gave us the opportunity to chat with you here while we're discussing search for spot today.

[01:05:47] Like, thank you so much for your, your generosity. Oh, you're welcome. And this has been a fantastic discussion. Awesome. Now, did you want a joke? Yes. Did you bring a joke? I brought a joke. I've got notes. It's not, it's not, it's not a knock knock. You know, it's not, it's not a light bulb joke. It's a, it's a, but it's about that. Okay. So this guy sees a sign for a talking dog for sale and he goes and he asked the owner about the dog and the owner says he's tethered around back.

[01:06:17] So the guy goes in the back and he sees the dog leech to a pole. He says, so, well, what's your story? And the dog says, I've had a really good life. I used to work for the DEA, sniffing out drugs. And then the FBI got wind of me and they recruited me. And I used to sit in on interrogations and then testify in court. And I've been all over the world and I've had a really good life, but I would just like to relax and enjoy my old age.

[01:06:45] So the guy says, I'll be right back. He goes back inside and he asked the man, how much do you want for the dog? And the owner says, $10. And the guy's like, $10. That's all for that dog? And the man says, that dog's full of shit. He's been out in that yard. He's never been out of the yard. God damn it. I knew I would screw it up. He's never been out of the yard.

[01:07:15] That's my joke. Lion dog. That lion dog. I love it. Hey, happy new year. Thank you so much. Happy new year, Robin. I wish you all the best in 2025 and to all your listeners. Thank you so much. Okay, guys. I never picked up that they were having sex. Really? This is the first watch where I was like, as a kid, I was so confused about so much.

[01:07:45] Because again, going back to the goals and everything, the movie almost feels like they all know he's coming back to life. And that's why they're going to Genesis to pick up. Like, I was so confused as a kid. Like, did they figure out that Genesis would bring him back to life before they found the body? I don't know. But also here, like, so they mentioned Ponfar, great callback. But the whole time, even now, I'm like, is he wailing in pain because of Ponfar? Or is he wailing in pain because of the rapid aging? It's very muddled. A lot of this stuff is very muddled.

[01:08:15] So I always assumed she was just rubbing fingers to kind of like, hey, this is Vulcan meditating. We're calming you down. You're feeling better. Did not think that the Vulcan Starfleet officer was about to bone this rapid aging teenager. Out of mercy. Yeah. Okay. It was a pity fuck. I mean, I'm starting to get it now. I'm reading it now. Clearly, we have just gotten confirmation.

[01:08:40] So I'm just, I want to go rewatch the movie and reevaluate everything I know about Spock in this film. I would answer the first part of your question with yes to both. Like, it's really showing you how torturous this is for Spock on multiple levels, right? Like, his bones are actually changing shape and like expanding at this incredible rate. And on top of that, he has to go through this burning puberty from hell.

[01:09:08] Like, it really does show you, you know, the strength of Spock and Vulcans as a whole. Like, how much they suppress what they're feeling, not just emotionally, but physically. It's a great way to illustrate all of that over the course of a single movie. And I mean, it really does kind of make Savick one of the most important characters in this movie, right? Like, she does a lot of the most important things. She discovers that Spock is there in the first place.

[01:09:39] And it's, I mean, this character, it feels initially to me like it was added because they were like, what if there was a lady Vulcan? And, um, but then she actually gets some stuff to do in this. And, you know, as, as you just heard, I have zero complaints about Robin Curtis's performance. I love, love, love, love her Savick. I think she's great here from like all the, uh, just like your father lines, classic kind of Vulcan, uh, snide remark there to just the way she takes charge on the planet.

[01:10:08] It's like, yeah, we are in literal hell right now. We have been abandoned on this planet. We have no way off. Klingons are after us. This is what we need to do. Get to work. And she's scolding David. Like, look, man, you can't just science however you want. Like how many people are going to pay the price for this? Right? Like, and I think, was that the movie, was that them trying to like set up a little bit of a, like, oh, David has to sacrifice himself because of what he did here.

[01:10:36] I'm like, it just doesn't, I'm like, did we need this? Did we need the proto matter? It's, that's another kind of thing. As a kid, I was always like, wait, what's happening now? Yeah. Because there's zero payoff for it. I think the reason for that is like, that's why there's no Genesis device afterwards. Right. Right. That's why it's unstable. I get that. Yeah. It's like an explanation for why the planet is blowing up. It's that, but it's also a lot of things, right? It's the indictment of the use of nuclear weapons or even the development of nuclear weapons. Right.

[01:11:05] Like, yeah, you think you understand it, but it's an incredibly destructive force. It's also, I think, I don't necessarily think that it's meant to make David feel like he has to sacrifice himself so much as it is to parallel him to Kirk. Right? Like, Kirk is okay with disregarding the rules if he thinks that it will serve the greater good. And that's absolutely what David is trying to do here.

[01:11:29] And by having Savick be the one to chastise that, it creates another parallel of the Kirk and Spock relationship, the Savick and David relationship. You know, she's like, yeah, you're so human. How many times have we heard Spock make fun of Kirk for being human and, you know, like kind of ribbing him for it?

[01:11:47] So to me, it's almost like if we can't have Spock in most of this movie, let's create a Spock surrogate in Savick and have this Kirkling be around to receive the other end of that. And I think it actually does play into why David, to your point, it does play into why David would go, you know what? I'm going to try and cause a distraction here or maybe at least, you know, single myself out. Because up until now, David is not a hero.

[01:12:17] Like he's a scientist nerd who's mad at his dad, right? Like he spends all of Star Trek 2 being like, really? This guy? This Kirk guy? So he doesn't have the heroic personality needed at the start of this movie to make him a tragic character, I don't think. So I think having this moment where Savick is like, dude, you really are not thinking about the needs of the many, okay? Let me just put it that way.

[01:12:44] And then in that hostage scene, he's like, all right, needs of the many here. Like, what am I going to, I'm not going to hold the planet together. I don't need to be building new Genesis planets. Like this is probably the most logical thing. What's he going to do? Keep building paradises where people go and age really rapidly and use that to test pharmaceuticals or something? Man, who would do that? Where would that idea ever go? Come on. I got to say, that sounds like a terrible premise for any movie. What's he going to go do?

[01:13:12] Go just become a drug user and beam aboard another enterprise and demand he gets drugs? Hell yeah. Is that what happens? I don't know this movie. In the TNG episode where the, you know, the very special episode where Tasha Yar gives Wesley the speech about drugs. He's the actor who plays the drug addict, right? Who grabs and electrocutes Riker. You're talking about the game? No, no, no. It's a season one episode. It's a season one episode. Yeah. Oh, okay. Was it this?

[01:13:42] This David is one of the Davids. I think it was this David. I think it was this David. Yeah. 90% sure. Yeah. Yeah. We're over here making old references and you're making TNG references. What podcast is this, Cam? Come on. Let's hear from another caller. This is Open Pike Night. Here's Michelle. Hey, Open Pike Night. So Star Trek 3 is my childhood Trek. My dad got me into Trek through the TOS movies.

[01:14:06] And I have very vivid memories of eating leftover birthday cake and watching this movie more than once on a summer vacation when I was nine or ten years old. So this movie meant a lot to me. I was very moved by it. I think it gets a lot of flack that it doesn't deserve. I find the friendships, the exploration of the characters to be so compelling. There's so much humor in it too. Now, my favorite TOS character is Dr. McCoy, Bones.

[01:14:35] And D. Kelly absolutely nails it. He channels Leonard Nimoy's Spock. I don't want to use the word tubics, but like seeing the amalgamation when Spock's Contras and Bones, it was just perfect. So many great one-liners. And then the heart and the heartache of this movie, right? Kirk loses his son. We lose the original Enterprise. It is tragic.

[01:15:04] But also that light at the end with, your name is Jim. It's, oh, come on. This movie is such a roller coaster. My only issue is that Uhura gets left behind. I get it. She had a job to do, but she should have been with the boys on the mission and seen the Enterprise go down. Um, man, Michelle Nichols deserve better.

[01:15:28] Anyhow, I'll say for my Crusher connection, I think Beverly Crusher knew a little bit about the story of Genesis and that device. And in the TNG episode, Ethics, when she says that, like, good research takes time and, you know, you can't take shortcuts. Maybe she was thinking a little bit about David Marcus. I don't know.

[01:15:49] Maybe it was also some advice that she gave to her sons as she raised them to not take those same shortcuts and not end up like David Marcus. I think that was a big concern for Beverly. Anyway, those are my two cents. Live long and prosper. Brilliant points, Michelle. I'm so glad to hear from you for this episode. And, I mean, shortcuts through living tissue, like, one of the hardest Bev lines ever, right? Like, Bev knows her stuff.

[01:16:19] And I completely agree. It's because of all their science education. So, you know, join your fellow Star Trek fans in supporting science education by going to StarTrekPodCrawl.com. Nobody does it like Producer John, folks. They really don't. But, you know, I agree with you on Uhura. I wish she had more to do in this movie. I think Star Trek IV really redeems that. She gets a lot more to do. She gets to be a badass. The badass that we know that she is. And, you know.

[01:16:46] Well, I think part of the reason that the heist is so fun and iconic is because everyone does get something to do. Except I think the person kind of getting the shaft is Chekhov. He doesn't. He doesn't. He has no important role. He's there a lot. I mean, what are his skills? They, Star Trek never figured it out. Like, what are they going to give him to do? I mean, at least Uhura is a commanding enough presence to be like, you're going to get in the closet now and that works. It's so commanding that I have a Mandela effect of seeing that man in the closet.

[01:17:16] Was that in a TV cut? I swear I've seen him in the closet. But, yeah. No, I think Uhura's scene is great. Like, yeah. It's a bummer she doesn't get to go on the adventure. But we see her at the end and she has such a good moment there. Yeah. Meanwhile, Chekhov is just sitting around like a little Lord Fauntleroy. I mean, he's getting the, uh, did he have a worm in his head in the last one? In the last one. Yeah. So he's still recovering from that. I mean, we got a lot of Chekhov in Wrath of Khan. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:17:44] Well, and to your other points, Michelle, agree completely with McCoy. Like, this character is so great. Like, he spends all of TOS being kind of blatantly racist. Uh, it's probably, uh, excused as, well, he's good friends with Spock and Spock's in on the joke, etc., etc. But we see here that he actually does care. He tells Spock that he missed him. And then he respects the Vulcan customs.

[01:18:11] Like, he names his father during the ceremony, right? And it's a beautiful, beautiful moment. And D. Kelly crushes it this entire movie. I call him D. Kelly because we're tight like that. But that last scene, to your point, your name is Jim. The writer, Harv Bennett, said that he actually started with that scene and then just worked backward from there. So, Cameron, maybe that's where some of your structural issues come in because the writer was like, I just got to get to this point.

[01:18:41] Like, however I get there, who cares? For sure. 100%. Speaking of the other cast members, then I want to talk about James Tuan and how he does not get the respect he deserves as an actor. Because his performance, when the Admiral walks up to him and tells him to report to the Excelsior, maybe the finest bit of acting ever put on film. Top three moments. It's real good. Like, the deadpan stare and then the little smile. He's like, well, actually.

[01:19:10] It's so good. It does take balls to be like, yeah, I heard you issue that order, but I really don't like it. How about this? Yeah. I mean, dude. That's me to the middle. Yeah. And his joy with having sabotaged the Excelsior. It's so complicated now. It's really easy to do. You just pull one piece out. Up your shaft. It's such a good line. The line that he gives to McCoy, like, from one surgeon to another doctor. It's like, come on.

[01:19:40] It's so cold. I love it. And I'll credit his performance when Kirk starts the self-destruct sequence. Oh, yeah. Like, his reaction to just hearing that, not knowing that that's the plan, but like, all right, here we go. It is a good moment upon hearing the death of a child. Yeah. But, okay, let's go back. I mean, I know Shatner gets all the credit for the Spock funeral scene and, you know, soul more human and everything. We've referenced that.

[01:20:09] But the moment he finds out, I was almost in tears this watch, guys. Like, that is, I don't know why the scene isn't held up as like the Shatner acting scene more when he finds out that his son has died. That is so good. So, to your point, Cameron, and this isn't a thing I ever thought I'd say, Leonard Nimoy agrees with you. Like, in the commentary, he's like, this is the top of Shatner's game. Nimoy cleared the set so that it was just Shatner.

[01:20:38] And there's not actually even certainty if that stumble was scripted or if that was Shatner. Like, living in that moment and attempting to get to the chair. And he basically phrased it as, that's what this movie is. It's when the captain falls down. And I was like, kind of getting emotional even just repeating that. Like, he nailed it. Like, Nimoy knows these characters. He knows what he's doing here.

[01:21:06] And his direction and care for this script, I think, is what elevates it past, you know, kind of a soundstage-looking movie. Like, it does, you can see that in it, you know? Which I would just say, that's the spirit of Star Trek, soundstages and foam rocks. But, like, from an actual analysis standpoint, he understands, like, look, if this is self-serious and these people commit, it will work. And I gotta agree with that 100%.

[01:21:34] And yeah, like, how often do we see Kirk get really sad, right? Like, I mean, he lost the love of his alternate life at least twice at this point, right? With City on the Edge of Forever and Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. And for him to really break down, I think, is just a masterstroke in this film.

[01:21:59] And he doesn't immediately turn to anger and revenge and, like, you know, I'm gonna just kill every Klingon I ever meet. But I think this is the scene that makes his later scenes, like, in Undiscovered Country really work. Because without that, it's like, what is this? Why is he such a jerk about the Klingons, you know? It's like, this is why.

[01:22:23] Because, like, you can discard everything that happened in TOS and just look at this scene and see why he is the way he is with Klingons. And I'm really glad that you brought that up because it is powerful. I mean, it's- It's heart-wrenching, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so powerful that you forget that it really shouldn't work without having seen the previous movie. Yeah. Like, if you just jump into Search for Spock, you should kind of be like, what's happening? I haven't seen these two characters together ever. Ever.

[01:22:50] But even if you were to jump in, I think the scene would still work because of that performance. Yeah. And they're not together in this movie. No, yeah. You just hear Savick saying, like, oh, your dad is Kirk. I mean, that's not what she says, but that's essentially what she says, right? And to have such thin layers of that built up before this happens, I mean, it's an impressive feat. It really is. Yeah.

[01:23:15] Speaking of, like, the death of characters, I like the captain of what's the name of the ship that they're trying to rendezvous with? The Grissom. The Grissom. I like the captain of the Grissom, and we even get some shots of the other crew. Like, I love the moment when he's like, oh, you think he found Spock alive? What do you think we should do here? The helmsman? There's nothing in the manual about what I should do with this moment. Yeah, the helmsman in that scene is like, excuse me?

[01:23:41] Especially because it's kind of immediately after they're blown up by Klingons. It's like, well, yeah, yeah. That's why I'm like, I kind of felt bad that they died. I like that guy. Yeah, it was a good crew. We do have a good crew of callers here. We got a couple more. Let's go ahead and hear from Platy. Hey, open bike night. This is Platy M3 calling in with my hits, shits, and giggles for Star Trek III, The Search for Spock, which unfortunately is not the name of a new Paramount Plus movie starring Christina Chong's Runa. My dog is a little sad.

[01:24:11] All right, movie hits. Man, I got great memories from this. As a kid, I had this version as a book, and it came with a little storybook, pictures from the movie, and an audio cassette that read the book. I must have listened to that dozens of times as a young little Platy. Probably my first audiobook ever. I know there's a lot of controversy over this, but you know, Robin Curtis' Savick, I was 100% fine with. So I'll put that as a hit. And I love the scene where Kirk asks for the Enterprise. Starfleet's commander, of course, says no.

[01:24:39] And Kirk kind of gets this faraway look on his face and then just kind of chuckles and said, I had to try. That was a nice little moment. Shits, just going to go with the obvious ones here. Bye-bye, David. Bye-bye, Enterprise. Damn, Kirk loses damn near everything that's important to him in this movie. But, you know, gets Spock back. Um, giggles. Cameron, I'm sure there's a lot of speculation on what went down during those Ponfar moments, but I brought an expert on to explain it for us. Cameron, I assure you that nothing more than kissing happened. That's, of course, a definitive statement on that.

[01:25:08] And I love the moment when a hero beams Kirk and the crew over to the Enterprise. The scene starts with a young lieutenant talking about the place being the hind end of space. And if you watch that scene in high def, he ain't wrong, man. There's consoles that need Windex. The chairs are scuffed up. And that wall could use a coat of paint. So he's right. Platty M3, signing off. Platty, I love that you remix my other podcast, Green Shirt and Newbies Trek The Next Generation, into your calls. It warms this old man's heart.

[01:25:35] And, uh, yeah, I mean, as you heard, we, we, uh, covered a lot of that, but Rob was wrong because the more authoritative figure Robin Curtis weighed in, it was a lot more than just kissing. Well, and it kind of interests me to learn that Cameron used to be a young Rob. Like, you know, if I didn't see it, it didn't happen. That's right. Apparently. There are no implications. Yeah. Like, yeah. Well, I'm, I'm sorry that it never occurred to me that two characters on a dying planet

[01:26:04] boned in a cave who were of vastly different ages. Life from death, Cameron. It's like the theme of the freaking movie. Life finds a way. But I, you know, I, to address what Platty was saying about, you know, the consoles and stuff. Like, he's right. Like, and the filmmakers were acutely aware the entire time. Like there was this, uh, I think it was either the director of photography.

[01:26:29] I think it may have been the director of photography was like desperately begging Paramount, please, please let us go shoot this movie in Hawaii. Let me shoot it on location. I do not want to do this on a set. Like, um, and they knew that, but you know, the, the Trek professionals being as consummate as they are. No, look, Hey, you can make this work. You can make it matter to the people that are watching. Um, another funny moment here in the production of this movie.

[01:26:58] At some point, the soundstage caught fire and like a big portion of the Paramount lot was part of this fire. And zero exaggeration, William Shatner sits in the special features for this and talks about, you know, I grabbed a, a fire extinguisher and I ran into the burning building and I started putting out flames. And when the firefighters show up, they thanked me for what I had done. And I said, you're quite welcome. And I handed them the fire extinguisher and walked off.

[01:27:26] It's like, dude, you can't be everything. Like, like supposedly there's record that yes, he actually helped fight this fire, but it's like, does that, do you need, is that a part of the story you got to tell? This is going to be great on a special feature one day. I seriously, like the guy, I, it feels like these interviews were shot in the part of his life where he's like, no, I don't like Star Trek. Yeah. The Boston legal type. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:27:54] But I, you know, I, it is interesting that like everything that all of our callers are picking up on is like a well-documented truth. About this film. It really has affected people more than you would think the bridge movie would. Speaking about Shatner's performance of the death of his son, David Jones, our good friend worded in and said, Hey everyone, hope you're all well. Search for Spock is a great follow-up to con. Seeing Kirk lose everything he loves and still managing to keep going on just made the movie better. Which it is, you know, it's true.

[01:28:24] Like we were talking about, he acts incredibly well, but he never sinks. They never have him sink into full despair. And like you mentioned, Cam, he kind of does that in undiscovered country. Like he does that over the next couple of movies. Yeah. It's really good. I mean, he might get back to a little bit of a flippant Kirk at the end when he's like, fine, I'll kill you later. Which is a great line. Like everything there is great. But I am like, didn't your son just die like 30 minutes ago? Okay. All right. This is a movie.

[01:28:53] That's right. And I hear you, but I like that. It's kind of that Starfleet officer thing, right? Like, yes, you've just been through this huge emotional moment. You absolutely told this guy to his face, you were going to kill him. And like, but it also shows like on top of being a consummate officer, Kirk really does understand the Klingons too. Right? Like he despises them, but he knows what will make them, you know, straighten up and listen.

[01:29:23] And they expect blood for blood. That's how they operate. And he knows that. So it's like, it shows him as being smart and compassionate at the same time, which, you know, who doesn't love smart compassion? Well, we have one more caller tonight. Let's hear from our friend, Melanie. Hi guys. Here's Melanie. I'll tell you what. I was five years old when Star Trek 3 The Search for Spock came out.

[01:29:51] I've only seen it in theaters following Star Trek movie nights, oral television and DVD, of course. This movie is a love letter to friendship, loyalty, and the lengths will go to for those we hold dear. One of the most iconic lines in Star Trek, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, takes on an even deeper meaning here. They turn that principle on its head and they risk everything to save the fallen comrade. The action in The Search for Spock is also memorable.

[01:30:18] Sulu's role in breaking McCoy out of custody is a particular joy. His quip, don't call me tiny, is one of my favorite moments. And McCoy. Oh, how I've always loved McCoy. Did I ever mention how much? Until Strangely Rules came out. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were my favorite characters. Now it changed a bit, but they're still my favorite Tosk characters. And watching McCoy carry Spock's cutter is both funny and touching.

[01:30:43] His gruffness marks with deep affection, and seeing him incorporate Spock's memories makes for some wonderful character moments. He might complain, but McCoy shows off in his own way, proving he's more than capable of bearing the burden of his friend's essence. And seeing the Enterprise being destroyed hurts me every time. Really, every time. Such a beautiful ship. So, live long and prosper. I need to go and watch Star Trek IV now. That's a great point, Melanie. I mean, that is one thing we haven't talked a lot about.

[01:31:11] But I do want to mention the shot of the Enterprise burning while they're watching on the planet. I mean, that is an amazing shot. That's always a beautiful shot. It's so good. The shot of the Enterprise. The shot of them there on the rock. The line. You did what you always do. You turned death into a fighting chance. Like, that just sums up Kirk. And then the shot of him there with the... I don't know if it's the sunset or like a planet set. Because it's being destroyed. But it's beautiful. And that's kind of what I was talking about earlier. Where it's like...

[01:31:42] Yeah, you know, the close-ups on some of the environments are like... Oh, these are artificial sets, you know? You could see what they were... They really wanted to kind of capture that. Like, look, all these biomes are living together. Like, you could kind of see what they wanted to do. It just did not have the budget to do with Genesis. Yeah. And I will say, in contrast, though, like, the first shot, like, in the jungle, where they're, you know, panning through to find that tube. Like, that looks great. That's like a Jurassic Park level jungle shot.

[01:32:12] But yeah, I mean... Does it get more iconic than them watching the sinking Enterprise on this cliffside? Like, and it's, you know, one of those moments where they're giving you an actual cliffhanger on a cliff. Like, how could this go forward from here? You cannot have Star Trek without the Enterprise.

[01:32:33] And if you would have told me in 1984 that in four years after I was born, there would be a movie after this that would have them in a Klingon ship the entire movie, I'd be like, well, that doesn't seem like it's going to work. But it did just occur to me, like, we had a Star Trek movie with no Spock, followed by a Star Trek movie with no Enterprise, followed by Star Trek V. Yeah. That was the return of the crew and ship.

[01:33:03] I mean, talk about a softball for Shatner, right? Like, but I mean, it is a very good point. And our friend Steve Sincera, who called earlier, has a beautiful painting of this moment that I hope to share with folks. I'll probably put it on our social media. Like, it is one of the more evocative images in all of Star Trek history. Yeah.

[01:33:27] Melanie brings something up that I think is very interesting because, I mean, everybody loves Kirk and Spock, right? There's nobody that's like, yeah, I love Star Trek, but I can't really get past Kirk and Spock. That doesn't happen. But McCoy, I think, has just as fervent a fan base as the other two. And that really, really speaks to, I think, why people do love Star Trek V so much. Because it's just Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, like the whole movie, all the way through.

[01:33:55] And you've been missing it by that point. And, you know, John, when you do get into TOS, you're going to see why that works so well. Because these guys are like high school level friends with the ribbing and the sarcasm. Like, it is all the way through. And I'm very interested to see what they do with the McCoy character in Strange New Worlds. Like, do they bring him in? I mean, we've heard that they eventually want to have the entire original cast of characters.

[01:34:25] But, like, how does McCoy read in 2024? You know what I mean? Or 2025, I guess. Or even beyond that. Like, they're going to need to pad his character out with more than just the casual racism. Because while it works for that trio of characters in the way that we know it, it's going to read really differently in modern day. So I'm interested to see what they end up doing with McCoy. I think the TOS movies McCoy is just fine.

[01:34:52] I think the Kelvinverse McCoy is also great and perfectly acceptable. I don't think there's a problem there. Right. And he's considerably softened from what there is in TOS. Sure. I mean, this series, for sure. For sure. But I think they've been doing that since then. Yeah, they'll lean more toward that, just like general grumpiness. Yes. I did want to go back to that opening shot you said. Because it's no wonder that, despite my problems with perhaps the story structure,

[01:35:21] that I do still love so much about this movie. Because that opening shot, so much about this movie is just cemented in the 80s. And I feel like there's so many vibes to other great 80s movies. The opening one, I feel like a lot of 80s movies opened in like creepy dark forest with like highlights and soaring music. Definitely E.T. I'm thinking when I watched that. I believe Baby the Lost Legend, the weird dinosaur movie. It's been years since I've seen that.

[01:35:49] Then you have The NeverEnding Story with the planet breaking apart. I mean, just flashes of that that entire time. I kept thinking, waiting for the wolf to jump out and tackle Krug. This is Targ back from the dead. But definitely, I mean, legitimately, guys, I conflate space balls with this movie. One of you had mentioned space balls earlier. The scene I think of, though, is the self-destruct. Every time I watch this movie, I expect the computer to say, have a nice day at the end. Just kidding. That's right. That's right.

[01:36:19] Literally, I have to tell my brain, no, it's not this movie. I do like that the self-destruct sequence starts by destroying the bridge. Yeah. Well, if it didn't have a plan to crash in, there'd be a lot of the Enterprise still floating around intact. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, it would have to start in the warp core, right? You just alter the intermix and then it all goes from there. But it doesn't appear to be that way. And then real quick, aging Spock, I kept expecting to turn into a werewolf. Lots of 80s vibes all throughout. It has aspects of that.

[01:36:49] Yeah. You know, from his perspective, he doesn't know what this change is going to bring about. But that self-destruct sequence, I mean, it is the like, it feels to me like Spaceballs watched this movie and went, oh, let's do an equally ridiculous self-destruct sequence. Because like one, one, a, a one or one, one, a, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. That's the passcode? Come on, man. Like that could accidentally get entered at any point. Yeah.

[01:37:19] You can pocket dial that at any point. At this point in Star Trek, voice controlled computers is still like a sci-fi concept, right? Now, when we watch Star Trek, we're like, how do we know they're not using a recording? How do we know that's not somebody using data to fake a voice? But back then it's like, nobody was thinking at that level. They were like, dude, it's their voice controlling a computer. How can you even believe that? Like, yeah, I love this movie for everything that it is, including things that could be considered flaws. Absolutely.

[01:37:49] Kind of similar to that. There's a small moment where Kirk is wondering, well, you know, the, the, the captain of the, sorry, it was the ship. Grissom. Grissom. The Grissom. Yeah. They're either going to attack us or help us. We don't know which. Check off. Send him my compliments. That'll do it. Send him a compliment. That'll push him over the edge into a treason. Tell him I really dig the way he wears his hair. Yeah.

[01:38:18] I like how he doesn't have a weird magic wand riding crop. I think that's good for a captain. Yeah. And like, I mean, is that just supposed to indicate that that guy is a disciplinarian? I don't know. I think. Is he. It looks like a toy wand my daughter just got for Christmas. Well, do we think he's a big equestrian in the tradition of Star Trek captains just loving riding horses? Oh. There you go.

[01:38:45] Like, is it that he can't let go of that part of his life so much that he needs a physical reminder? Like, is that his security riding crop is what I'm wondering? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he doesn't come off as like heavy handed. You know, he's pretty. He comes across as a little bit too chilled out. So it's like, why are you carrying this riding crop? Exactly. Maybe it's like a relic, like a Picardian thing. Yeah. Let's say. Yeah. Or some, some excelsior tradition. He's trying to, who knows?

[01:39:14] I now suddenly wish Picard always had that little figure from the chase in his hand all the time for no reason. Just tossing it back and forth when he's bored. What is that thing? It's 12,000 years old. Just don't ask. I have two questions about Spock before we wrap things up. Yep. One is, did he just happen to reach the age he died at when they transported him off the planet and he stopped aging rapidly? How did that, how did that work? I'm, I'm pretty sure that's what they were getting at. Yeah.

[01:39:44] Just like, we got to get out of here and that's why they transported him off, you know, they. And he just happened to be at that, at Leonard Nimoy's age. Okay. Yeah. Which could be, give or take, 50 years in Vulcan, so. Well, and either that or somehow the proto matter knows like of the full lifespan of a thing. It's just taking him back to where. Where he died. You know, because it's like it brings the planet to the end of its life and it, I, but again,

[01:40:11] that's completely an open question because the way you see it is, well, that's a great coincidence. Very lucky for Spock. And then, so we learn from Sarek that like, yeah, any Vulcan who knows he's about to die is going to download or upload his consciousness into someone's brain. Do we ever see that again in Star Trek? Are we going to see Ethan Peck just like anytime the Enterprise is headed into danger, just like grab someone's face next to him and say, remember? Well.

[01:40:41] I feel like this is something Lower Decks could have a lot of fun with. I completely agree. And it does make me wonder because there is an episode of the original series where a ship that is crewed only by Vulcans is suddenly destroyed. And Spock feels that like, I mean, unfortunately, the closest parallel is like the force. Like suddenly he hears all these thoughts and feelings from this Vulcan crew.

[01:41:09] And he explains like they had no idea what was happening and they were terrified when they went, which is a great device, obviously. But it does make you wonder like, we know that Pike didn't give any specifics to Spock after his experience in Equality of Mercy. But it seems like he kind of hints to Spock, like, your time isn't now. And I, you know, that sort of a thing.

[01:41:37] So like, because we know Pike has this plot armor of like, no, I've seen how I go. Nobody's dying today. Like comfortable to say that on the PA. But it does make you wonder, like, does Spock have some kind of extra sensory awareness of that? But to your point, Cameron, I don't think we've ever seen it except with Sarek and Picard where Sarek is nearing the end of his life. And is it the same thing? Is he uploading his conscience? Did Picard have to go to this mountain later off screen?

[01:42:07] It was a pain relief thing, wasn't it? Didn't he have like a disease? Right. It was basically like, take my Alzheimer's for a while while I deal with this. With the hot tub slide machine aliens. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So you just couldn't help yourself. It's a good phrase. I really like it. Go listen to Green Shirt to understand the origins of that. It does make you wonder, though, like when he got back, was he like, oh, Amanda, I just had to go through the worst thing. Can you find me an actual Vulcan now?

[01:42:36] Because I'm ready to go. Yeah. Well, I'm just wondering, like, so you upload your consciousness and then maybe you don't die. Maybe, you know, you turn death into a fighting chance. I'm just going to use that as much as I can now. And now you've got like a bunch of people with like your conscious uploading them. Do you have to take them all to the mountains and then like erase it, scrub it from their memory? This seems like a very, I don't know, burdensome cultural thing. Yeah. Without a Trill Symbiont, it definitely gets a little messy.

[01:43:05] At what point do we let somebody actually die on Vulcan? You're right. Because the Trill Symbiont was always very straightforward. Exactly. Yeah. Never any gray areas. But like if you have the Vulcan who has passed body, do you resurrect them too? Like, you know, I guess what we're getting at is Spock is an Epo baby, right?

[01:43:27] Like he got this treatment because Sarek had high friends in the Vulcan council because otherwise Vulcans would like honestly act all the time like they were functionally immortal. And that's not a great way to sustain a planet's resources. Yeah. Again, I don't think Sarek was saying bring me the body of Spock and the Katra of Spock and we're going to bring him back to life. That what he was, this was to pass him into the afterlife. Right.

[01:43:57] He was saying bring me the body. He said his body was dead, but his mind is still alive. We need to do our ceremony so he can go to heaven. Yeah. Right. And then when he got home and or when he spoke to Kirk and he realized, oh, the Katra is still fully intact. In fact, he remembered, oh, wait, there was that one ancient thing that sometimes would happen. I'm going to go see if I can pull some strings. You go see if you can find Spock's body. And, you know, maybe we do a little resurrection when you get back. No, that's not what was happening.

[01:44:26] That's what happened, Cameron. Did you watch the movie? Well, that is what happened. I'm very confused by this movie, but that's not what Sarek said. Well, I'll rewatch it and I'll let you know how I feel, but. You're welcome for having a reason to rewatch the movie. Right. Well, and like Melanie, I immediately watched Star Trek 4 after this. I was like, well, I'm not going to stop here. Like, you know, what am I? Some kind of amateur. The adventure continues. But that's part of it is a production thing, right?

[01:44:55] So like Nimoy says, like, we can't call it the search for Spock or maybe this was Harv Bennett. We can't call it the search for Spock. And at the end, have Kirk look into the camera and go, well, we didn't find him. Like, what are they going to do? Right. It's not going to happen. Like making the whole movie, like for as many characters in science fiction and genre we see come back to life. Like this one feels like it has meaning. I buy the techno babble of it and you get this whole movie and it feels important.

[01:45:24] And it doesn't come easy. Like, again, Spock has a whole other movie of rediscovering himself. So, yeah. Like it has weight to it. It absolutely feels earned. And I have to imagine that I want to say this movie was greenlit like six days after Wrath of Khan hit theaters. So, I'm sure part of the calculus here was like, okay, how do we make more Star Trek movies that still have this whole crew in it? Because this one just made money. The first one did not make money. This one is making money. We need to make more of these.

[01:45:53] He's like, you know, commercial reasons are just as real as artistic reasons in the world of movies. And I got to say, I'm pretty impressed and grateful that we got three amazing movies because two, three, and four are a trilogy. I'm very happy we got those, even if the reason was somebody at Paramount went, I'd like to make more money. Well, Jesse, you went ahead and watched Star Trek IV after this. You know who else watched Star Trek IV? Everyone cool.

[01:46:24] The Sci-Fi Sisters. The Sci-Fi Sisters. Who are covering the next installment in this pod crawl. Let's bring them on to talk about what they discussed in Star Trek IV. The one with the voyage home. Sci-Fi Sisters, Tamia, Sabrina, Yvette. Thank you for joining us on Open Pike Night. Thank you for having us here. Thank you for having us. Hey. So good to see you again after Trek Long Island. Oh, yeah. It's been a long time. It's been almost a year. Right? Oh, my God. It's coming up soon again.

[01:46:53] I can't wait, y'all. That's right. Yeah, we're starting to get emails for it already. So you covered Star Trek IV. And if our listeners have never heard of the Sci-Fi Sisters, where can they find you and go listen to the next pod crawl episode? They can find us everywhere. Especially anywhere you listen to your podcast. It's Sci-Fi Sisters. It's S-Y-F-Y-S-I-S-T-A-S.

[01:47:17] And you can find us at our website, which is Sci-FiSisters.com. Or any place else that you listen to your podcast. And, yeah, we're delighted. We are four Black women who love science fiction and fantasy. And we love to talk about it from our point of view. Heavy on the Star Trek. Really heavy on the Star Trek. But we talk about a lot of other stuff, too. As well as we have a YouTube channel. The Sci-Fi Sisters Inc. It has its own YouTube channel.

[01:47:47] And we do a great live show there. And we have other shows underneath that umbrella. Like Sabrina's show, Sin Sin Goes Sci-Fi. And we have an ElfQuest show that comes on there called Two Moons and a Microphone. With Tanya Scott Thomas for all the ElfQuest fans. And we've got our brother Derek Tyler Attico. Author of the autobiography of Benjamin Sisko. Who has his show on there called The Soul of the Story.

[01:48:15] So check us out on YouTube as well. I just got that book for Christmas. That's fantastic. I'll have to check that out after I read it. Yeah. We are partners of the Truck Geeks Podcast Network. And that's where you can. That is the home of our podcast. Of our audio podcast. And we ain't going nowhere. Because we love our podcast poppers. Now, I thought you were going to say, John. If our listeners are unfamiliar with Star Trek IV The Voyage Home. What can you tell us about that? Oh, yeah.

[01:48:45] It's one of the lesser known Trek movies. Yeah. Yeah. It really gets lost in the shuffle there. I have to say, we're a little. We were on the fence between choosing Search for Spock and Voyage Home. And one of these years, I hope to talk Voyage Home. Was it a good conversation, I'm presuming? It was awesome. I mean, I think we asked for something else. And this was what was left. Wow. Then when we got it, I think we all were really happy that we got it.

[01:49:15] You know, because it brought back so many memories. I think we talk about a lot of memories we had when we went to go see this, when this came out. Of course, Sabrina talked about, you know, all the inside stuff. All the nominations and awards that it won. And, you know, there's a lot to this movie that we kind of brought out that people, I think, don't really realize what was going on at that time. So, for us, it was like a walk down memory lane.

[01:49:46] And, yeah. And we realized that this is like one of Sabrina's favorite movies, which I don't think we knew until we started doing it. It is. I know. The one with the whales. But, you know, it's a good stuff. So, I know it's the movie that was probably written with the non-Trek fans in mind. But they gave the fans, they gave us everything we needed. And it had a lot of great stuff in it. It was classic Trek. You know what I mean?

[01:50:14] You know, so saving things and crashing things. And, you know, the world needs going up, being destroyed. And I love it. So, we had our girl Mads Sinclair in it. And that's all I needed. Right. It's always so great when you discover things about your co-hosts on air while you're recording. Right? It really is. Oh, yeah. And you think we think we know everything now. It's always something. It's always something. Well, we'll be checking it out, too. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thanks.

[01:50:44] I can't wait to listen to you guys. You know, it's going to be, it's so good to be here with you guys. And, like, you guys are great. So, that discussion about the search for Spock, I know, is deep. I can't wait. You set expectations already. That's what I do, baby. That was the one we wanted. I remember dropping at least one bombshell during our recording. But, of course, I guess everybody's already heard that by now. I'm confused about our timeline.

[01:51:13] I know, right. Well, you know, that's temporal mechanics 101. There we go. Head on over to Sci-Fi Sisters and listen to the coverage of The Voyage Home. And after that, we got, what, three more films after that? We're going all the way through Generations for the pod crawl. So, be sure to head over to StarTrekPodCrawl.com and help support a good cause with the National Center for Science Education. And enjoy every episode. Check out all the podcasts that are covering this event.

[01:51:43] And if you haven't heard any of them before besides Open Pike Night, you are in for a treat. These are some great podcasters, some great shows. And speaking of great shows, Cam, when you're not on Open Pike Night, what are you doing? Oh, geez. By the time people are listening to this, there will only be one episode of Star Trek The Next Generation that I've never seen. And yes, it's all good things. It's the last episode.

[01:52:09] Over on Green Shirt, a newbie's trek through The Next Generation, the other podcasts I host along with producer John here and some other fine hosts. As I make my way through TNG for the very first time, never watched it, have been for the last seven years in podcast format. And yeah, we're finally reaching the end. You can tune into the penultimate episode on Preemptive Strike with guest Tom Tran later this week.

[01:52:38] And then two weeks after that, you can hear my thoughts on the finale. All good things. But don't worry. We've still got some movies to go through. We've got Picard Season 3. We're into Season 2 of DS9, doing the DS9 Minute. Exactly what it sounds like. And we'll shortly be starting the seven or nine minutes of Voyager. Not too long after we wrap up TNG. So plenty more to hear over on Green Shirt, a newbie's trek through The Next Generation, wherever you listen to pods.

[01:53:08] And Jesse, we had some great callers tonight, including our very special guest. Thanks once again to Robin Curtis for popping in to talk with us. If any of our great listeners or new listeners here from this pod crawl want to call in, how can they do that? Two things here. First of all, if you're still on Twitter, get out! Get out of there! And come follow us on BlueSky at OpenPike. And you can also just go straight to our website, OpenPike.com. You can record your call right there.

[01:53:37] You can see our patron stuff. You can find everything you need for the show all in one place. There's links to the Discord so you can come chat with other real-life Star Trek nerds. And I know this would be considered moving backward, but Cam, have you considered doing a very short mini version of a TOS recap show? I'm just throwing it out there. I'm just throwing it out there. Because I like to keep a joke running and I feel like John needs to be there.

[01:54:07] It's okay if you don't. TOS, the one-second recap. There we go, the one-second recap. Everybody give one word. But no, John... Yeah, just good or bad for each one. I fully support your New Year's resolution to watch more Trek as these folks have heard from you, John. And I'm just happy to have somebody to talk about it with. So thank you guys both for continuing on this human adventure with me. Thank you all for listening. It has been a long night.

[01:54:35] We are three drinks into seven drinks on this pub crawl. So we got to head on to the next stop. We'll just be sure to clean up after ourselves. We'll be sure to tip our servers. You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here.