Strange New WORDS - "Four-and-a-Half Vulcans" with Henry Alonso Myers and Dana Horgan

[00:00:00] This is Henry Alonso Myers and Dana Horgan, and you're listening to Open Pike Night's Strange New Words. Failing to listen would be an oopsie. A catastrophic oopsie. I believe, just to credit this, I believe oopsie was a Dana line. I do like the word oopsie. Yep.

[00:00:30] Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds podcast where your calls are the prime directive. I'm Cameron Harrison, who will be flying solo tonight after my co-hosts John and Jesse injected themselves with a mysterious serum and are now too busy arguing about the most logical cable management for their microphone setups to join us.

[00:00:53] But it's not just me, because tonight on Strange New Words we'll be chatting with the writers behind Season 3, Episode 8, Four-and-a-Half Vulcans. First up, the woman who's had enough plomique soup to last a lifetime, Dana Horgan. Yes, but actually soup is my favorite food, so there's never enough. What's your favorite sorbet and where does leek rank there?

[00:01:14] I mean, I feel like I really like leek sorbet. I think that would be delicious. I like a savory. I'm a salty gal. Alright. You might be part Vulcan. I might be. And the man who just doesn't understand why the writers room can't operate on a 42-minute rotation. And what's with all these chairs? Henry Alonzo Myers. Hi. Great. Great to have you back, Henry. I know.

[00:01:44] I hit too close to home, Dana. I've forgotten about the 42-minute rotation. And now I have a new favorite line that I think might actually be cut from the final cut. I can't remember. Oh, those are some of my favorite. Did it make me mean I can't remember? 42-minute rotation is in there. Yeah. No, no, no. These 42-minute rotations are killing me. When Pelleya wakes up. Yeah, when Pelleya wakes up. Okay, good. I made it in a camera. I couldn't remember. It's been like a year. Yeah.

[00:02:16] Well, let's jump right in. What was the initial pitch for this episode? Like what was the germ and how did it evolve? Dana, you want to answer? I mean, sure. It was a completely different episode. So once again, we're going to talk about my favorite subject, the writer's strike. And we actually broke and got off the board an entirely different episode for this number before the writer's strike hit. It was like the day before the writer's strike.

[00:02:43] And I thought if the writer's strike didn't happen, I'd be going to outline on that. The writer's strike did happen and we came back and we decided, Henry, correct me if I'm wrong. There was a sort of a like, when we came back from the strike, there was just a sort of refocusing and looking at what we had and what we had left. And that episode was a little bit smaller, a little bit more intimate and less. It was just less.

[00:03:11] And so we, we just went around pitching on new stuff. And then Henry, I think this, this came from you, right? I did. Cause I love, you know, I had, I had done charades and I really thought that this, this felt like a sequel, but I literally don't remember. I mean, I, I don't mean this dismissively cause I, cause it could have also been from you, Dana. I don't remember. Like, I don't remember what I pitched. I don't remember what other people pitch. I just, I give credit to everyone else around.

[00:03:41] I mean, I did, I think come up from the idea of like, okay, last year Spock became completely human. Right. And I think the, what if of the conversation was what if others became Vulcan? Like, I think that was the germ of what started it from that conversation. How many of them can we turn them into Vulcans? Can we get out as many of them as possible turn into Vulcans that we can watch them?

[00:04:06] And then we somehow shaped that into this thing where we were like, the Vulcan solution is what starts the episode and very quickly solved the entire episode. And then becomes the episode. That was the fun of it. Yeah. We wanted to do a, like a, oh, this episode is done in the teaser. Yeah. Like that's crazy. Yeah. And then four to five, uh, emotional stories become complete, which are like, everything

[00:04:36] seems fine. Go completely off, you know, off the, off the wall. When the whole Vulcan approach to those stories comes into it. That was really it. Well, yeah. I mean, how did you come up with these four characters being the ones who become Vulcans? Did you ever kind of mix and match or did you land on these four pretty quickly? Look, part of the fun of this is trying to give our actors something new and different and strange and fun to play.

[00:05:03] And who we tried to do something with and who haven't we? We also had big stories that we were trying to kind of track through. We knew that, you know, we had the Battelle story with Pike. We had the story with Uhura and Ortegas' brother. What else? We had, we had Corby. We had, uh, Chapel and Corby and we had, uh, Lon and Spock. Yeah. And, and a lot of it came down to, we, we, we, we tried to say like, all right, if

[00:05:29] we're going to do four Vulcans or five, if you include Spock, what is a different version of a Vulcan story with each of them? Mm-hmm. And we tried to do Vulcans completely differently with each of them so that you could just, you could cut to what is a fun B story and the B story becomes the big fun craziness of it because of this, you know, major transformation. Yeah.

[00:05:53] We had, I feel like the, the Una one became like partly the, the fun of what can we reveal about our people that's totally different? Like, can we see a different side of Una? Mm-hmm. It was a lot of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as you say, uh, although she doesn't become a Vulcan, we do get to see this new side of Una. Was that super fun to explore? Had you kind of found seeds you had planted before that you were able to use for this or where did that all come from?

[00:06:22] Part of this was in, in, in season one, we did a episode 105 was, uh, you know, it was a short leave episode. Uh, and, and it was part of the idea there was to, okay, we see our people doing the same thing every, every week. Like, can we do something where we flip and so some other part of their life? And the fun of this is that we literally clean up the typical, uh, Star Trek, a story in the teaser. And, and we're left for the rest of the episode, seeing them dealing with, you know, what are essentially personal problems. Mm-hmm . . . .

[00:06:52] And so it, we were just looking for interesting, fun, crazy, unexpected discoveries with everyone. And one of them was that like, we didn't know a lot about Una's private life. And we thought we could reveal something fun about her with this. Yeah. That sort of came, I don't remember who pitched it in the room, but it was this idea that like, Una is like super controlled and buttoned up, but like, and we knew that this expert, like,

[00:07:18] she would want to not call on this ex who was an expert because of relationship drama. And when we started talking about like, what that was, it was like, oh, we don't want the like, terrible ex-boyfriend. We don't want the like, you know, like the, the, the classic, he's obsessed with me and I'm not into him or it ended badly. We were like, what is like a fun, very relatable thing that we wouldn't expect with her?

[00:07:44] And it was like, they're obsessed with each other and their obsession with each other kind of ruined their lives. Like, it was like, I can't focus on anything else when you're around. And it ended up, I mean, when, once we, once we cast Patton, like it ended up being like really sweet and, and it really just kind of gave like a, like a tenderness to Una that we didn't expect. And this just like, oh no, like, just like, like, have you ever had that relationship where you're just like, you can't quit each other?

[00:08:11] And like, it's like, it's like too much. And we, we just thought that would be really fun and it would be really sweet to get into. And then the idea that he would be obsessed with human stuff was just like a, a way to try to express Spock's emotions in the story where like his, his crewmates have not been kind to him. And it's very frustrating for him.

[00:08:40] And then this other Vulcan thinks he's fantastic. And, and just like, how would that be fun for the Spock story also? Well, also it's not all Vulcans think alike. Right. Of course not. Some of them may be coldly logical, but some of them may come to completely different conclusions. And we, we just, we just love that there was a character who kind of is a, he's a solve for the A story, but he really is a, a reveal for the types of characters these people are.

[00:09:09] He makes Spock feel better. He makes Uda play a scene in a way that she would just never play a scene. And, and Rebecca is a very fun, like. Very funny. Very fun comic actress. And it's like to give her a, just a different wall to kind of come into like a different way to behave. It just, it was like, it just made the scene a lot, like super fun.

[00:09:32] This is one of those episodes where I just have a grin on my face the whole way through because of those things, being able to see Rebecca and Una, like show the other sides. It's so fun. And we'll get to all that. But as you said, there is this great moment between Spock and Doug where like the episode has been hilarious. The scene is hilarious between them. But then like this really kind of sweet, uh, tenderness comes through when he says like, I envy your human side.

[00:09:56] And you realize like that one line is so momentous for Spock in, in the arc of French new worlds and the arc of his life. Mm-hmm. Did you struggle a lot with that moment or did that kind of come pretty naturally? That was easy. I think. Yeah. I was like, I feel like, cause we knew what we, I mean, we sort of knew what we were driving towards, um, there. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it's, it's a, it's more like a, it's a comedy thing, but for us, it was like, to them, that's a very unusual name. Right. Like a strange, interesting, mysterious.

[00:10:26] Oh, you were born in a different place and you have a different strange name. Oh, it sounds mysterious and great. And for humans, it's like, Oh yeah. I mean, for Americans, it's like a, it sounds like an average name. So it, it was just a fun thing to put on him. As a super fan that in TNG, there was an all powerful God being named Kevin. Uh, I am a big fan of, of this name as well. Uh, at Patton Oswalt, amazing choice. And we can talk more about him.

[00:10:55] Um, as I'm sure we will, but I, both my cohost, Jesse and I came to this thought, uh, independently. Was there ever a consideration of casting Jerry O'Connell? Not, not for this one. Right. I don't think we ever considered it for this one. We tried to cast Jerry in a different role. I don't want to go into specifics. Sure. Because it was not, it was not anyone's fault. We love Jerry and we've been trying, we've been trying to find ways to get him on.

[00:11:23] It was more like a, we cast him in a different role. We scheduled him to come in. And he had another job that he was covering at the same time. Things didn't work out. Scheduling conflict. It was a scheduling conflict. It was just like one of those things that happened. So you just had to move on and move forward. And like, but we, we love Jerry. Jerry's like the, one of the, I mean, Jerry and, and Patton are two of the nicest guys you've ever met. They really are. They're really, really fun. Yeah. He was originally going to be the Goran that, that stabs Ortega.

[00:11:53] He was going to be the Goran. That's right. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. It felt like a Jerry role. It felt like him. Yeah. We actually wrote it for him. It was actually a huge bummer. Oh, wow. Yeah. No. Yeah. We, we got the meta Jerry, uh, or, uh, his, his, his lower next character commenting on Una, uh, joke once. So not to get greedy, but no, no, we love him. And we've been trying very hard. Yes. I think audiences sometimes see this and assume that there is a, there is some story there.

[00:12:21] And the story is, it was hard to make schedules work and that's it. Schedules are so hard. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you're talking to a podcaster. We get it. There you go. Thank you for being on both of you again. Yeah. Well, Henry, uh, I mean, you kind of touched on this. We are three seasons in and you personally have written three Vulcan body swapping comedies. This is not an intervention though. Maybe it should be, but what is it about this very specific sub genre that appeals to you?

[00:12:49] Um, I, I, the thing that I find most interesting about Vulcans is that, and especially Spock is that Spock comes from, uh, two different families. He comes from, from two different cultures and he's sort of torn between them, but also both of them represent a huge and important part of his, his soul. And it's very hard to do that. It's, and I think it's a, I think it's something that they wouldn't have recognized the original series. And it's something that I think that people of today really express an interest in it.

[00:13:17] And, and, and so part of it was just Spock in the original series, probably representing it. He's an alien and he represented something like an other. And I think for the people of today, he is, he is us. He is, he represents, I'm going to just say people in America who frequently come from many different cultures. And that makes him interesting. It's part of what makes Spock interesting. Um, I, I think he's also particularly funny. I mean, Ethan is a terrific actor.

[00:13:45] He can do drama. He can do comedy, but I, you know, part of this was about doing a romance. Part of this was about just enjoying jokes. And part of this was about like, you set up a joke and you can think of another joke that extends from it. And, and, and part of that is a part of this is just, I like jokes. That's it. I don't really, I don't really have a better, uh, I don't really have a better reason for it other than I think, I think humor is an important part of Star Trek.

[00:14:14] I think it is a piece of Star Trek. Not all Star Trek episodes are funny and not all funny things in Star Trek are about humor, but I do think that like, we want to do a different movie every week. And that's one of those movies that I think works really well on the show. What's the point of being a show runner? If you can't write the episodes you want to write. Well, that's it. It's all the answer you need. So much of this episode did appear as a teaser early on.

[00:14:40] And in that, I think there was some questions from fans on, well, what about Vulcans is cultural and what is genetic? Why are they behaving this way when it seems like culture and not genetics? But now watching the episode, of course, we, we get the line where we know that the serum is based partially on Spock's subjective experiences. Was that an intentional, uh, addressing of that concern that you, you realized in the writers' room? I think we had always intended it to be that way. I can't remember.

[00:15:10] Is that correct, Henry? Yes. I'm 99% sure that that was the intent. I mean, cause we didn't want to say that Vulcans all behave the same way. We wanted to say, this is an unusual specific experience that applies only to, to Spock. And it's a definite experience that he has that we wanted to show. We weren't trying to say something broader than that. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think that comes through, through, through Spock's reaction to everything.

[00:15:35] You can tell this, I mean, you get to tell a lot of stories and a lot of aspects of those stories, but at its heart, this is, this is Spock's story and he's kind of living his nightmare and that's where the humor comes from. Right? Well, exactly. And that each one of them has their own weird specific, their experience in their own life, you know, that to a Vulcan perspective seems logical or in Lon's perspective to a, to a Romulan's experience, something that she would never, uh, uh, that's, yeah.

[00:16:05] It's hard to express. Like we, we, we wanted to, part of this is the science of it, but like, how do you turn the science of it into something that is fun and funny and genuine? That really is it because like, if they just come in and say all the right things at all the right times, it's just not going to be a very interesting episode. Right. And I think from my perspective and it's actually very nice to hear other POVs, especially in the writers room on this.

[00:16:30] Um, I think that one of the fun things that comes out of humor is you, you, you, sometimes you walk right into a wall and you smack your face on it. That's funny, but also you hurt your nose. And also, uh, some people are like, don't tell people to walk into a wall. And some people, you know what I mean? Like you, what you want to, you want to kind of carry all of those things in it, but everyone, I think everyone can relate to the idea that sometimes they say something wrong. Sometimes they do something wrong.

[00:16:58] Sometimes they act in a way that they don't mean to. And some of it comes from your heart and some of it comes from where you come from. But like that, that to me is what's relatable about it. Um, I don't really have any, you know, I, I enjoy that stuff. So. A hundred percent. And, and I, I agree. Like the moments when the episode kind of transcended the premise for me is when you realize like these weren't going to be four Vulcans, but for very individual Vulcans translated through their characters and what they're dealing with, like four different aspects of Vulcanism.

[00:17:28] I don't know. Yeah. That was the intention in the creation of it, but also like just to give props and kudos to our cast who really like dug in to like, no pun intended on Doug, uh, Doug into, to what kind of Vulcan their character would be. And like, they really just delivered and it was just delightful to watch them bring that to life. Like they really, everybody's a different Vulcan.

[00:17:55] And they all played it differently and it was fantastic. It was fun to watch them spend a lot of time with Ethan, who was used to having to do this every day, you know, on the show. And suddenly they were coming in, trying to do that and having a lot of back and forth about like, well, do I, if I do this, does this make me Vulcan? And like each one of them had to have their own look and feel. So. Yeah.

[00:18:26] So. So. Yeah. So. So.

[00:18:57] So. It's all good. It was on the wall in our room. It said Romulan a lot. A lot. Like we had cards that said it. We had, we had t-shirts, we had hats. Yeah. That's. I'm so sorry. Could you please repeat the question? I was, I was wondering about Kirk specifically. What, like what was the decision to bring him into this episode? I thought it would be fun. I mean, again, that dynamic is amazing. Fantastic.

[00:19:25] We thought it'd be fun to just see him. He, he, he means well. I wanted to see him get punched in a very funny way and go, ow, you know, like that. I thought that was good. We want to see him and Scotty. Yeah. Yeah. We really wanted to see him in the, the Kirk and Scotty dynamic. I always saw it as like the four stories were almost like four different genres, like genres of comedy, but like for the Romulan story.

[00:19:53] It was, it was kind of like a paranoid thriller that she was in, but also like they were in. So they're like, we like, it's almost like there's like a horror elements. I was like, we're looking for launch. She's going to like jump out and jump scare us. Really funny with, with Kirk and Scotty together. Like, what is that? What is that new? And what is that new dynamic also coming off of episode six? Like, so, so that was, I think where we brought Kirk in. We thought it would be really fun. I mean, I'm glad you did. Because yeah.

[00:20:24] I mean, it's so fun. I could watch a whole episode of any one of these four stories for sure. Well, speaking of Romulan, her conversation with Pike, where they realize they have the shared time travel story. Was that like an original pitch or did you guys kind of realize that as you were writing? Like, Oh, Hey. I needed. Oh, sorry. No, go ahead. You answer. I remember why it came about.

[00:20:47] We needed to find the way to say out loud that she's a Romulan without saying that she's a Romulan. And we had to find a way for them to say it without saying it. And that is, I think my favorite scene in the entire episode. It's a ridiculous scene, but like, they are both being very logical. I mean, they are both the people who went through time travel and you're not supposed to talk about time travel. And they're both being like, but one is being very pulpit about it. One is being Romulan about it.

[00:21:17] They both agreed to not talk about it. Should end this conversation. Well, I love the, uh, like, Oh, maybe if we say it together, that's not logical at all. But like, it's that type of like, logic where you're like, well, I want to get around the logic. So I'm going to say it's logical. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, cause it was always clear to us that she was a Romulan, but there was always the canon question of like, what, who, who knows about the Romulans? Like we can't say it out loud.

[00:21:46] How can we say it out loud? This is how we say it out loud. Like the, but they both do. We both establish. They're the only ones who do characters who do. Yeah. Yeah. Andy. Uh, how did you come to the choice to soften Admiral Pasalk by having him? Well, that was it. Dana had created him in, in episode two or two. Yeah. He's a very good actor. He is. Yeah. That was part of it.

[00:22:14] It was, it, we sort of for, for Pike and Patel, we wanted this sort of domestic comedy, this like, uh, this, this parlor dinner comedy. And we were like, how can we get them at odds in a way that's like, not, not mean, like, not like they're just fighting. And we, I think we just thought it, I, I don't remember the germ of how it came about, but it was like.

[00:22:39] Like to promote, we wanted to get Patel, like, we wanted to get her like back to moving in her career. And it's like, well, we know who her boss is. And you know what would be funny this time? If Pike and he really got along. I mean, he's a very, he's a very logical yet kind of judgy Vulcan. We thought like, Oh, wouldn't it be funny if like, she's, she's learned how to deal with him over the years and she has an approach to it.

[00:23:05] But like, wouldn't it be funny if like, we made a whole big thing about how Pike learned to cook all these Vulcan foods in charades and that they, that he would come over and she had a real plan about how to speak to him. But like Pike is the one that the guy loves and they just have this, they're getting along, like, you know, gangbusters. Like that, that seemed to be the fun part was to put her in a terrible situation where those two are just like completely loving each other.

[00:23:34] And it's very frustrating for her. The final scene between them is, is, is great when she's washing the dishes. He loses, she gets to lose her temper on them and yell at both of them and be very, very blunt. And because he is a logical Vulcan, it's the bluntness, the directness that actually wins him over. But you know, it's funny to make her yell at him. Yeah. Cause she never gets to yell at him before. And it's hilarious when, when Pike takes the second survey.

[00:24:05] It's delicious. It reminds me of an Astra Press bear when he doubles up on the bourbon. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, you've been having a lot of fun with the intro credits and voiceovers, uh, the past couple seasons. When did you have the idea to have Mount record it as a Vulcan this time from the beginning or? I think after we heard his Vulcan probably. Fair. It was so good. It was so good.

[00:24:35] We started trying lots of little things every season. I mean, with, with each different episode to see what we could try. I mean, part of it was just about, I love watching the, the opening credits to a show. It's like one of my favorite things. And to me, when you get to put any little surprise in there, it's a delight. Uh, yeah. No, Anson just did such a good version of it. We were just like, Oh, this would be really funny. What's your favorite opening credits to, to any show?

[00:25:06] Uh, gosh, I really love the one for six feet under. I feel like that's one. Um, I love the one for, uh, Buffy. The there's, there's the, the, the Buffy one that they did where, um, why am I forgetting the actor's name? You know, Xander did the, when it was the Xander episode, not the Xander episode. It's the, you know what I'm talking about? Uh, the, the, um, Danny strong episode, the Danny strong episode where suddenly like suddenly Danny strong is part of the credit. Yes.

[00:25:36] Well, cause it's his show. He's the hero. Yeah. I like, that's delightful. You know, I love that episode, Henry. You know, I love that. But like, it's just anything like that kind of tells you like, Oh, the, the, we're actually changing little things throughout the show to make it a different show to tell you a different story. I mean, I love that. I love when the fringe would do the, the alternate timeline openings. Um, but, but twin peaks is the right answer. Sorry. Dana. What's Dana's favorite? What Dana, what was your favorite?

[00:26:04] My favorite opening credits are the opening credits of the strange new worlds, uh, musical episode. That's also the right answer. Uh, it is. I can't, I, this entire conversation, I've been trying to remember what read, there is a recent show that the, uh, that the like zeitgeist was like, if you're choosing the skip credits, you're a monster. And I can't remember what. What? Severance had some pretty great intros.

[00:26:31] I don't know if that's the, it might've been like, it might've been the white, white lotus because of the music. I can't remember. Uh, I I'm trying to, I know that that was like a zeitgeisty thing recently. And I am just fully blanking on which show it was. We used to do it really well. Our flag means death. Does it really well? Like, cause they would always be, it's just a different thing. Every, every week where it's game of Thrones, game of Thrones. Yeah. I love that. Cause it tells you where, where are you going to be this week? Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:27:00] Uh, well let's jump to the other spectrum of the episode and talk about the first post-credit sequence. That's a little sad, I believe. Uh, what was the decision? Is that the first one we've done? Oh, that was a spoiler for the rest of the season. Sorry. Have we done it? Have we done it? Cause I feel like, uh, no, the, the crossover, that was the crossover. That was a, was that post-credits or was that just the end of the episode? I can't remember. Maybe that was pre-credits.

[00:27:30] No, I think it's pre-credits as I recall. So, oh my gosh. Yeah. It's been a long time. Wait, no, but, but episode four, episode four had outtakes. It had outtakes, but they were before the credits or they were during the credits. They were during the credits. Okay. That's, that's fair. Okay. Crowbar separation. We're splitting hairs here. Okay. Yeah. Cause we will, well, that's a thing that we, we do. I think that's why we started doing it because we liked those bloopers so much.

[00:27:57] We were like, what can we do for episode eight, which is the next comedy episode. And how much of that was improvised versus scripted? Uh, I'm going to say maybe half and half. I mean, as I recall, we can't, we can't with a bunch. I feel like Dana and I wrote a bunch of, on, on, on a bunch of lists. And then we, we sat down in the, in the, in the pork galley and said, all right, try these. And then. And then we just try whatever else you want. Yeah. What if you say this? What if you say that? I mean, we would throw things out. They would try things.

[00:28:25] It was a real, like, we had a couple hours of just like. Yeah. And it was like one o'clock in the morning. That's the best time to do. It was great. It was. No, no, it was. We were like, I am shocked that there was not laughter ruining all those takes because everybody, like we were all just a little slap happy. It was super fun, super fun night. Was Ethan directed to smile at the end or was that just. Him breaking. I think it was him breaking. I think that was him breaking. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:56] It feels like an Ethan smile, but I love it. I mean, we got to give an extra. Like, look, this is Jordan Canning who directed it is a genius. She is a genius and a talent and a really terrific director. And it's just, she's very good at finding both humor and like emotion in, and like this kind of thing is really fun for her. And part of it is just like giving her room to giving her room to roll. Yeah. Let them try things.

[00:29:24] Um, she, she did actually, there's a bunch of stuff in, in the charades that she did. As I recall, there's like a, there's a whole montage at the top when we're intercutting Spock and like, we're seeing different parts of his life. We see him first as a, as a Vulcan. Then we see him later on as a human and behaving really differently. There were things like he took a long chug of water and then he's like, Oh, I'm so thirsty. It was just like a thing. I mean, part of it was just, she, we gave her the scripted area of it and then just said, Okay, once you get it down, please do some going for it. Just try it.

[00:29:53] Try it. Just go for it. Yeah. Yeah. She's got fantastic instincts. She's just, she's a very great director. We were very lucky. Just give her super credit for everything. Well, I'm still in a hotly debated debate with myself over what my favorite feel good Strangely Worlds episode is this or Wedding Bell Blues. Time will tell, but either way, good job, Jordan Canning. She did a really phenomenal job with both.

[00:30:22] I mean, they, they, they both had different specifically challenging things and she really just rose to it on every, every one of them. A hundred percent. And so speaking of, she's does great with the comedy and the emotion at the end of this riotous episode for the climax. You have this scene between Spock and La'anne that shifts into a visually stylistic thrilling set piece with action and drama and dance.

[00:30:47] And at any point, did you worry that was going to be a little too ambitious to pull off at the end of this episode? Were you confident the entire way? Cause you pull it off. Yeah. I just, I was never worried. I don't know about Henry. No, I was not worried. I think that's one of those things that you just have to commit and believe in it. And a lot of people will ask you as you're doing something like that, if it's a good idea and you, you just say like, it's a, it's a, it's a bad idea not to do it.

[00:31:15] That was actually the hardest thing we probably shot in the episode. And mainly because it was very physically taxing for, for Ethan and physically taxing for Chrissy. I mean, like they were sweating and in pain and like, I mean, they, they did so many versions of those dances and the fight choreography. Like they did so much of that. It was really, it was like a, I want to say it was two or three days of shooting. It was really exhausting. Mm-hmm . So.

[00:31:41] Well, before we get to our final questions, we did take a second trip into Pelleya's quarters. And I just have to ask, were there any Easter eggs? Either of you had to get into her quarters somewhere or any favorite Easter eggs. I know Bill really wanted to get a taxi in there and they weren't able to get a taxi on the day. I don't know. Is there anything that you'd want? I mean, I don't think so. I hate to disappoint.

[00:32:07] I'd love an Easter egg, but nothing is coming to mind from that fantastic, fantastic set. I hope there's a tour of the set on the DVD. I hope so too. I mean, it's kind of like the, the, the goal was that every time we show up in there, there might be something new that we haven't seen before. Yeah. Was the statue new this time? I'm not sure. I will, I will be looking at screenshots. I'm sure. Uh, we will, we will return to Pelleya's quarters again. Okay. Yes. Yeah.

[00:32:37] Well, when all is said and done and the book is closed on the strange new worlds era of Star Trek, uh, and people look back, what do you think they will remember about this episode? What will this episode be known as? That's a good question. That's a very good question. Uh, I think the fact that we named a planet, uh, for the teaser, cause that's the, uh, that is the, where the entire mission took place was in the teaser. I mean, nobody knows that now I'm just, that's not what people are going to remember, but I

[00:33:07] want everybody to know it. That's what you'll remember. Yeah. That's what I'll remember. The planet is T-Zar. That's right. That was, that was a question. I skipped that one, but what is the planet named for? Yeah. It's named for the teaser. Pretty much. Um, that was not my real answer. I don't know what my real answer is. So I'm gonna let Henry answer first. Uh, I think this is the one where, um, with the most outfits, the most Vulcan outfits that people wear. I don't know.

[00:33:37] Again, like part of what we wanted to do was give our actors a chance to perform completely differently. And, and this is the one where we have, uh, as many of them doing that as possible. And it has, and it has an emotional effect on one of our other actors. So I, yes, that, that is, I agree. Um, I would also like to call out, uh, I am going to remember this as the episode where

[00:34:06] Spock perfectly threw a drink on Una in a perfect two characters who are not, not acting like them. I mean, who are themselves in the episode, uh, doing something that you would never see them do, which is you would never see Spock for a drink on somebody and you would never have a reason for Una to have a drink thrown on her. And it is one of my favorite. And be happy about it. And it's the most unconvincing accidental spell.

[00:34:32] He picks up the drink and just like, it's like the motions are so crisp. And Vulcan. Oops. It is one of my, I love it so much. Pet peeves of comedy. And I understand why it exists, but when there is a ruse and it's so obvious, it has to be obvious for it to be funny to the audience, but you're kind of going like, why would you this person believe this ruse? So when Doug is like, you guys aren't actually worried. I love that moment.

[00:35:02] Thank you for including that. This is not real. Yes. No, he's not, he's not an idiot. Yeah. He is not, he is not an idiot. He is not. No, no. He just knows that she has some reason that she is behaving a certain way. And so he wants to. He's giving her space. Yeah. Yeah. Which honestly is what you love. What's, what's lovable about Doug. Yeah. It is. I liked what you said because it is extremely funny, but there is something touching about that relationship. You're right. It's sweet. Yeah.

[00:35:30] Well, we've mentioned a lot of lines tonight. Is there a favorite line from this episode for each of you, whether you wrote it, whether someone else wrote it, whether it ended up in the episode. I'm, I believe mine is these 42 minute shifts are killing me. Any line by Carol Kane is pretty much pretty much. Oh yeah. So funny. This episode. She is so funny. The LSD in the sixties and the nineties. Nineties. And last July.

[00:35:59] And last July. They're making me look bad. She's so good. She's so good. God. Yeah. I'm going to just, I'm going to stick with what the Dana has just said, because it's, I cannot like, I cannot think of them right now as we, as we're talking about them, but like, it was a, everything made me laugh when we were doing it. Uh, it's a good sign. Yeah.

[00:36:25] I mean, I feel like that there was, there was something in the Doug, uh, and, uh, Una and Spock interaction that, that like, that was really particularly fun. Uh, when, when Spock actually calls Una, my wife was also very, it's not like, it's, it's a, it's just a perfect, it's a line. It's whatever, but just the way he called for my wife is every time, every take I was on the floor. Same.

[00:36:52] The other one that was, Oh, it was the, it was the quick exchange where he says, uh, he says a boy and a girl, they have different names and then he can't think of what they are. And then Una says Kelsey, but Doug. And then he says, and then I mean, Sarah, and then Spock says, Doug is her nickname. And Doug says, Doug is also my name. And he says, that is a coincidence. It's a coincidence. That's right. Thank you. That's it. That was my favorite. Doug. Doug. Doug.

[00:37:19] I, I, I noted that whole exchange, uh, when I was rewatching today and I was like, I don't know what's going to be. I don't get to do another one. I don't get to do another one. If you want to. I have another one prepared. What was the one that you said?

[00:37:46] It was music, but it's really like kind of tangent and not that we're musical scales. You, you, yes, that's true. And it's really only makes sense in my brain. Henry, I'll explain it to you later. I could be mean and steal Allen's, but I won't. Uh, cause I already know what his is going to be. Um, I'm going to give amnesia. Oh, okay. I'm, I'm going to say it's funny.

[00:38:14] Cause I, cause I, I obviously love the comedy stuff, but I will say, I will say terror. Oh yeah. Okay. And this one, we have some very interesting, surprising turn that I can't wait for you to see. And strange new worlds. What? No, never. We would never in a season with a puppet. I can't wait. You guys all the, I can't wait for the rest of this season. Uh, well, thank you both very much. Uh, I think, I think we'll be talking to both of you at some point in the near future on,

[00:38:41] on other episodes and showrunner retrospectives. Can't get rid of me yet. But for now we, we don't want to, because again, no, no, uh, F bombs yet, Dana. God, I'll work next time. I gotta, I gotta practice. I gotta warm up next time. Uh, great talking to you as always. Yes. It was. Thank you so much for having us on. I'll bring the gang next time. All right. Bye. Bye.