Strange New WORDS - "Human Best Friend" with Kathryn Lyn

[00:00:00] This is Kathryn Lyn, and you're listening to Open Pike Night's Strange New Words. That's a bingo! Is this thing on? Hello, hello.

[00:00:32] Welcome to Open Pike Night's Strange New Words, the series whose journey it is to share the process of writing your favorite Strange New Worlds episodes. I'm your host, John T. Boulds. But first, let me introduce my co-host, the man who sings almost all of his karaoke songs in English, Jesse Bailey. Yeah, if I'm sober, the songs are in English. Otherwise, Rammstein might slip in there. I learned most of Despacito at some point, but I mean, that's essentially ancient history in 2026.

[00:01:01] And the man who definitely wants to get tattoos while on vacation, Cameron Harrison. I'm just saying, what's classier than instead of a teardrop tattoo on your cheek at Delta? I mean, come on, guys. And today we welcome back to the Open Pike Night stage a writer whose contributions to Strange New Worlds include charades, those old scientists, a space adventure hour, and what is Starfleet?

[00:01:25] And now, cementing her place as having written more than 10% of the entire series of Strange New Worlds with human best friend. A heartwarming welcome back, Katherine Lynn. I don't know if I should take offense to the Delta tattoo thing, because I have a Delta tattoo right here. Oh, that is a reference to me trying to twist these guys' arms into getting a Delta tattoo at Star Trek Las Vegas. Well, if you guys want to get one right here, we can all be matching.

[00:01:52] I was wondering where to get it. I mean, it's not the cheek, but okay. I had a conversation with my significant other who said, well, are you going to get like a Delta on your chest where the badge would normally go? I was like, oh, crap. I thought about that. Yeah. I like tattoos where I can show them off and I don't go around shirtless enough. Yeah. Well, maybe this is how you finally get there, Cameron. It gives me an excuse. Yeah. Or at least like a Khan, like open shirt kind of situation. Yeah. Right. Get Khan's pecs tattooed onto your pecs.

[00:02:24] So that every, you know, at a quick glance, they're like, wow, that guy's ripped. Yeah. I had this, the same conversation, John, and I was told, so you're going to get a tattoo with your podcast friends before you get one with your wife. And so there it's a, it's an ongoing conversation. We'll put it that way. Yes. Fair enough. Well, let's jump into human best friend because there's so much to talk about. Like, let's just start with second one. Actually, let's start before the episode starts.

[00:02:52] So, Catherine, if I were to sit down and make a list of like every big genre swing a Star Trek might do, if I was told this new Star Trek is going to do some big swings, I'd probably put down a musical, a zombie, maybe even a Lower Decks crossover I might put on that list. I don't know if I would ever put hangover in space. Can you talk us through like how the seed of this idea came to be and then how it blossomed into this beautiful thing we have now? Oh, my God.

[00:03:19] Um, it was not my idea. Um, Akiva, our showrunner, he came in, I think having recently watched The Hangover or Harold and Kumar or something. And was like, so since season one, they had been really been wanting to do like a hijinks comedy episode.

[00:03:41] Um, kind of our version of like a naked now or a naked time, but more consent forward than those may have been in their time. Um, and so they had kept wanting to do that and wanting to do that and trying to find out the right way to do it. And yeah, somehow Akiva came in with this sort of a hint of the idea formed in the sense of what if we go to a drug planet? And, um, I, I'm generally the comedy writer in the room.

[00:04:10] And so, uh, everyone turned to me for the drug planet. I was like, what, what? Um, and so we started talking about The Hangover. We started talking about Dude, Where's My Car? Um, at one point we were calling this Dude, Where's My Chapel? Yeah. Because she is quite missing for the episode. And at points we had been pitching kind of a runner of like trying to find Chapel as the big, you know, what the episode's about.

[00:04:39] And then we landed on the shuttle being missing. And, uh, I think where it started getting weirder was that, um, to get a little TMI, I had to have a very major surgery this season where with a significant recovery time. And they ended up having to rearrange the season writing because of that. And so I ended up writing much of this episode in a hospital bed.

[00:05:03] Um, and then at home during a very serious, um, it was an esophageal surgery, so I couldn't really talk much so I could just write. And so we were doing that and I was on a lot of drugs. During the recovery, I had a really tough time coming out of a, it was a very long multi procedure thing. And so the anesthesia was quite heavy. So I was really high.

[00:05:27] I was in the hospital really high on a lot of painkillers as I wrote the first draft of this script. And I think that may be where it started. The shape started changing a little bit. And that's how we ended up where we ended up. So do you watch this episode? And I mean, do you look at it as a positive, like a silver lining to that? Or is it hard to separate from the roughness of the recovery? No, it was a silver lining.

[00:05:52] I'm very grateful that I was able to keep my job and that they rearranged the whole season for me. And there was no pressure. It wasn't like you need to write this in the hospital. That was just me not wanting to lay in a hospital bed and do nothing except listening to like beeping. So I was like, I'm just gonna write now guys. And then Henry and Akiva were like, or you take a break. And I was like, no, no, I got this. I got this. And so I look back at it when I reread the script and much of it is like, I don't remember.

[00:06:25] And I'm like laughing because I'm like, what a weird way to word that. Oh, wait, I was high. So what I'm gathering from this is that Akiva Goldsman is the Michael Bolton to your lonely island. Like, I'm really sorry I'm late. I just got caught up watching the Pirates of the Caribbean marathon. Have you seen those things? Oh, yeah, yeah. Those are great. Well, I listened to your track and I loved it. And I wrote you this big, sexy hook. I think you gotta really dig. He shows up and he's like, dude, I just watched The Hangover. Have you guys seen this?

[00:06:53] And you, incredibly high, are like, we can turn this into a thing. Like, don't worry about it. Yeah. And at one point it was just a hangout episode. It was like, they're just on the planet and everything goes wrong and they're trying to find chapel. And then I kind of went rogue a little bit and added in like, when they get back to the planet and there's a bomb. And I'm like pitching this to Akiva and Henry in the room and they're like, there's a bomb? And I was like, there's a bomb.

[00:07:20] Well, now I'm picturing the Spice Girls movie where the guy's like pitching the movie to the girl or to their agent. Just when you think they're safe, they discover the bomb. What? Bomb. Yes. Yeah. It was like the, in South Park when they have Michael Bay, like, and then there's explosions and it's like pew pew. And 18 wheeler spins out of control and it's all like brush. And this huge tanker full of diamonds. Crawl. Crawl. Crawl. Crawl.

[00:07:47] That was me like, and then there's a bomb and they can't disarm it. And people are looking at me like you were supposed to write a fun hangout hijinks comedy. And now there's a bomb and someone's hand blew up. And I'm like, yeah, yes, that's it. Exactly. Well, that's funny because I was, I mean, I have a note somewhere where like, it feels very intentional. Like, oh, there's stakes. The shuttle's missing. Someone stole the shuttle. No, they misplaced the shuttle. Oh, they're being kidnapped. No, they asked to be kidnapped. So it feels like you keep giving us these like false stakes.

[00:08:15] And then you just with real stakes right when we expect it to just be like, oh, they just have to figure out the negotiations now. Right. So well done. Yeah. The bomb works. Yeah. Especially because we've seen at least two other episodes of like, oh, I'm not prepared for this negotiation. Captain of the enterprise who has to like wing it at the very end. Like, oh, no, this is making, you know, it was a very good red herring on that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:41] So how did this become like, where's the idea that started? Like, you know, who would be great best friends is Scotty and Ortegas. Like, this feels like a very new thread for this season. I mean, even kind of their antagonistic approach to each other is a new thread for this season. Where did that come from? Was it like, you know, watching them on set like, oh, they seem like great friends. Let's do something with that. Or was it something else? Well, we were watching them on set and we were like, they hate each other so much.

[00:09:10] No, I'm kidding. No, they are friends. Honestly, it comes to the start of every season. We sit down and we say, who do we want to see together? Who have we not seen together? Who would be funny together? Who would be who would have high stakes together? And we kind of just make a list of that. And I was the one who kept raising my hand for Scotty and Ortegas because I think they're really funny. And I think they have really different comedy styles. So I just wanted to see what their vibe would be together.

[00:09:39] We realized we had very few scenes of them together, you know, of any depth previously. And so we started trying to talk because at one point we were like, would they date? And we're like, no. And so we're trying to just figure out how do we get them to have an episode together in a way that actually makes sense. And then someone else in the room, I think it was our script coordinator, Tad, who was in the military for some time, was talking about there is sometimes a rivalry between pilots

[00:10:07] and engineering because both believe they are the most vital person. And so we were like, well, maybe we can see that rivalry earlier that like he's they both think they're the one who keeps the ship running. Mm hmm. I like that. It made so much sense. Like the first time you realize why they're having that conflict, you're like, yeah, like that makes perfect sense. So great note from Tad. Yeah, absolutely. Big asset in the room.

[00:10:37] And speaking of the conflict between those two, is this the first dueling opening log for a Star Trek episode? Is this the first two two person back and forth? I wouldn't be surprised if there was something on Deep Space Nine. Right. That's the one I could think of. Yeah. Yeah. Let's say it is. Let's say that we're laying new groundwork. It works really well. Brand new. Yeah. Yeah. And the music under it is really unique, too.

[00:11:04] I love that kind of driving almost action music under it. Where did that come from? You know, we had gone through a few versions of the music. It was that was a very ongoing to the last minute conversation of like how funny, like should the music play for the comedy or should it play a little more grounded? And so I think it landed in a good place where it's not giving anything away. Yeah. Did you write the duct tape in that opening scene or was the duct tape?

[00:11:34] I wrote the duct tape. Excellent. And then there was a whole cover. I remember someone from props came out and they were like sort of logically wanted to know why there would be duct tape there. Where would it be? Is there a drawer here that we don't know about? Where did they? And it was like, no, there's just duct tape, guys. There's just duct tape. It's fine. So, yeah. In shooting, it was just like hidden underneath something and got slapped on. But let's just say sometimes there's duct tape around. It's the same tape they use for their marks, guys. Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:01] I think it actually literally was the same duct tape that they used for their marks. Gaffer safe, yeah. It was gap tape, yeah. Nice. So let's talk about writing the Cessner Grand promo. Like, what? How many versions of that did you go through? Was it always, is it in the script that it was going to be TAS style animation? That was not in the script. That was the conversation later. There were many versions of the promo though, because it started out long. I was like, I'm just going to go and have fun with this.

[00:12:29] And so it was an incredibly long promo that Henry kept coming back to me and being like, no, cut this in half. And I was like, or we just trim it by like 5%. And so it got shorter and shorter and shorter and finally landed in a place that can fit into an episode of our length. But no, that was at points. It was absolutely ridiculous. Like a long tourism video you would see in like a Vegas hotel room kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:58] So we've heard from other writers that sometimes guest spots are written with a specific actor in mind. Were you thinking this is Dave Foley when you were writing this script? Or did that come about later? We had a lot of names we were throwing around, but you never know until you don't know people's availability. Mm-hmm. And we were talking about standup comedians. We were talking about all kinds of different people. And then it was actually our casting director when they brought Dave Foley up, we were all

[00:13:25] like, oh yeah, yes, this is a Dave Foley role. And then I did some slight revisions on it to kind of match his voice as best we could. And he brought so much to it. And he was suggesting some really fun things. He added like a legal disclaimer and things like that, that we hadn't originally had in there, but then we wrote it. I love him because when you watch the promo and during the first half, you're like, okay,

[00:13:52] this guy's kind of like the sleaze ball, like sleazy car salesman, basically vibe he's getting. And then by the end, like, it's very sweet. And like, he's, you know, he's over here, like doing everything for everybody. And I, yeah, it was a fun little journey with this character. And it did feel very Dave Foley in that way. And that like, oh, it could go either way with this guy. And I'm glad it, it went where it went. Yeah. And he was great to have on set. I don't know if you all have talked to him, but. We're hoping to, but yeah, we're trying. Ask him about aliens.

[00:14:23] That's what Yana said. Or don't ask him about aliens. I mean, you'll have a very long interview. He loves to talk about aliens and he's so fascinated and fascinating that it's, he's a wonderful person to have around and he was really excited to be there. So we were all happy. Did you make any suggestions in that realm for like this alien character of his? No, but I bet if I had more time on set, we could have come up with some fun new aliens, but he's a, he is a believer. Yeah. Good.

[00:14:52] So the, the tone, I remember the first time I saw the hangover, right? I'm like, Oh, it's very funny. And then there are a few moments where you're like, Oh, this is going to get very real. Like people are in actual danger. This could be really bad. I feel like this episode kind of does that same thing, but instead of danger. And I mean, other than the bomb, of course, it's like, Oh, this is actually full of a ton of heart, right?

[00:15:20] Like Scotty and Eric are actually connecting here. Was that, did you have kind of a goal going into it? Like it's going to be hilarious, but also very heartfelt or did that evolve as you got through the script? I think that did evolve. It was, it was definitely more high jinx-y initially, and it was going to be a little bit harder comedy. But as, yes, as, and maybe it's because I was high.

[00:15:48] As, as the writing was going on and sort of the outlining and everything, it did get more and more sentimental in a way I kind of wanted to bring out between them, but I was really hoping to hold on to the comedy. I didn't want it to delve into like saccharine territory. So it was an interesting thing to balance of like, at times there were longer monologues and longer exchanges between them where they really like laid their hearts bare, but it was like, no, now we're tipping too far in that direction. And they're such good actors.

[00:16:17] I think they really, and they're friends. So it helped because they're there. You could feel it on set that they were like having these moments together. To that, uh, sentimentality. I, I do love the line hearts are infinite. We should make use of that space. It's a really sweet sentiment line in the midst of all this chaos. Was that your line? Did that come from a writer's mom? Like what was the origin of that? That was my line. Um, I don't know where it came from. The drugs. It was just, it was the drugs. Yeah.

[00:16:48] Yes. Um, there was some codeine involved. No, um, yeah, that, I'm not sure where that came from, but yeah, that was one of my good lines. It's a very good line. Speaking of tattoos, like that line is going to end up on some people's skin. I guarantee it. Like that's. If you see anyone at Vegas getting it, send me a photo. Absolutely. I want to see two best friends get tattoos that say human best friend. They have matching human best friend. That would be good. We don't really actually say human best.

[00:17:17] I mean, now that we know some of the background of how this was written and where this was written, uh, the set decoration after when, when Erica first wakes up and, uh, she and Scotty are in the hotel room. And I, I'm glad we're asking this question cause I am super curious. Do you have a headcanon about why there are so many knives and sharp objects and watermelon in the room? Like what happened? Do you guys not go to parties?

[00:17:45] Like knife throwing and we were in a star check podcast cat. Yeah. I have a wall behind me just literally. You have a knife. Yeah. Like, Oh my God. We've never gotten the full, the full look. Oh, I've never. Yeah. Is that a Robocop gun at the top? Yes. That's where, that's my favorite movie. Um, that is awesome. It is a Robocop gun. Ah, beautiful. Yeah.

[00:18:10] See, so you go to parties and you, you know, you, at the time I, I think I was taking, uh, this is so stupid. I was taking a knife forging class. That's cool. Like I was learning, I had watched a lot of forged in fire and I was like, I think I can do this guys. And so I was like, before the episode, before my, my surgery and everything, I was taking some blacksmithing forging classes. And so maybe knives were just on my mind. So when set deck was like, what do we put in the room?

[00:18:39] It was like more in the script. It did say knives, but I think we just kept saying, I was like more knives. I think there'd be more knives. Yeah. I might want more knives guys. And who had the stuffed dog lion? I wish I would. It's actually, I have it now. Oh, wow. I wish I can go grab it, but I'd have to take all my stuff up and go, but yeah, they, they sent it to me and I was very excited. And, um, our, our, uh, set deck guide, Justin is amazing. And he, he was just finding all this stuff. That was something on Etsy.

[00:19:09] I just wanted a little, cause I love that dog. I always wanted to bring that alpha, alpha canine alien into the show. And we were like, maybe there's like a taxidermied one or something. And there's this tiny little Mac and me alien or something. Yes. The triple roll. Is there a story behind this guy? Nope. I believe Yana, uh, I think that was such a fun set deck because it was like anything goes. So we were just like, do you have this?

[00:19:39] Do you have this? Do you have this? We're just like naming weird foods and weird stuff. And he was like, I can go get it. Would this be a, a good description to read from the script? Maybe. Let me see what I've got. Let me see what I've got. It was a very short. I mean, the unfortunate thing is that the scripts have to be so short that much of it lives in like scribbled notes to then share during our production meetings to be like, Hey, here's what we actually, let me find the, um,

[00:20:05] I mean, while you're looking, my wife had the exact same conversation with me about Forged and Fire this morning. She was like, I want to get a forge. I think I can make a sword. I was like, okay. If you guys come visit LA, I will take you to the forge that I go take classes at. It's called Adam's Forge. It's amazing. It's a nonprofit, I believe, but they teach knife making classes and sword making classes and it's all for a good cause. And it's a, it's a fantastic place just outside of LA.

[00:20:32] Nonprofit knife forging business, maybe the most LA thing I've ever heard. And I'm absolutely here for it. Like, yes, everybody come visit. We will go, we'll go forge some knives. That sounds awesome. That sounds awesome. Open Pike knife, Cam. Yeah. Open Pike knife. It's right there. Okay. Oh yeah. There's very little description. It says, uh, hotel room sometime later. She takes in the room.

[00:20:59] It's trashed, smashed furniture, feathers strewn about no one else there. She wears a single andorian antenna on a headband. Then she notices an old fashioned cast on her arm. Huh? A Tribble scoots away behind her. Getting up, Ortega's trips over a big hairy animal. It groans rolling over. It's a mugato. Ah! Ortega punches it in the face. It shoves her back, clumsily falling over. As they tussle, its mask comes off revealing drunk Scotty. Beautiful. So yeah, that is all it said.

[00:21:27] A very messy hotel room. And so we had a lot of ideas then for what that mess meant. Was that a Shran callback with the single andorian antenna? It wasn't. It wasn't. I put enterprise callbacks into all, like there's little enterprise or big enterprise things in all my episodes because I am an enterprise apologist and big fan. Hey, Shran, I mean, it's like, look, you guys can feel the way you feel about the crew, but you can't hate on Shran. He's a great character. Yeah.

[00:21:55] At one point I really wanted Una to actually be singing the enterprise theme song. Oh. Because I was like, it's a legitimate, it's a Diane Warren power ballad. It's a real song. Like Rod Stewart has the version. It's a real song. But I think that people thought that would be a little too, like now are we saying enterprise exists in this world as a show? And I was like, no, we're saying Diane Warren exists in this world as an artist. Right. It's the future. It's like the one theme song you could legitimately do that way. Right. They use, they use Beastie Boys in the alternate universe. Yes. They talk about Spock in their song.

[00:22:25] So yeah. Said the same. Yeah. I believe humans in a Mugatu suit have now appeared on screen more times than actual Mugatus. Mugatus, yeah. In Star Trek. Like. Lower Decks have some, we had some good. Yeah. Gamato Mugatu. Gamato Mugatu. Yes. Which is apparently down to just DeForest Kelly not remembering what the script said.

[00:22:51] Like, I'll just say whatever I think it said on that, in that script. Why not? Well, speaking of the karaoke songs, like how, how many other songs did you pitch? There had to have been like a whole board of. Yeah. Was her, her list of songs she signed up for, was that like, okay, we'll pivot to these if we can't get the rights to Total Eclipse? No, we actually, the process of it is we had to start really early because that we had to pre-record the song. So we had to have it written into Klingon.

[00:23:18] We had to have Rebecca learn it in Klingon with the pronunciation. And she was like, what are you doing to me? And then like go to a recording studio and actually record the song. Because the nature of how we have to shoot, you can't just sing it live. And so originally, Robbie Thompson hard pitched that it would be Don't Stop Believing by Journey. Because it's taught the episode frequently talks about the journeys. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:23:46] Like, uh, like, uh, uh, his character keeps talking about this is your journey. And he was like, we need a journey song. Those are hard to get. And so I think that I said the Enterprise theme song is what we should do. That was a no. And then it was just this. And so we went with it and started that process. It worked so well. And yeah, Rebecca. Amazing. Yeah. I would imagine that this song will end up on the season four soundtrack. I really hope that it does. Because I know that there have to be like decisions made about what to include.

[00:24:16] But I hope someone pushes for this one. Yes, I hope so. You recorded the whole song? Yeah. Nice. That's super cool. So where is Scotty's tattoo? Um, Martin had lovely colorful slang that I wasn't actually familiar with that I believe is Scottish slang for where it is, but I don't, I don't actually know if it's an offensive word or not.

[00:24:43] So I won't say it, but it is, um, the area where you, you all may think it might be. Okay. All right. Okay. Good for Scotty. Yeah. High pain tolerance. Engineers and their tools. Am I right? That's right. Yeah. Another line I loved was, I think it's Scotty or a taste. One of them tells Dindrew, you're a terrible puppet master.

[00:25:10] An intentional Easter egg for a later episode this season. Oh, unintentional. Oh, interesting. You said, I did not even think of that. Considering how many Easter eggs are in this episode. It's fun that there's an unintentional one. Yeah. Let's say it was intentional. I was, I was setting it up for them. So people would be like puppets. So, okay. We, we mentioned this briefly before we started recording and we talked about this with Yana, but I could talk about this for probably the whole episode.

[00:25:40] Chappell's bingo scene. How, how does this evolve? Is it, you know, you're partway through the script and you go, oh, I didn't write any chapel or like you had mentioned, they were looking for chapel. Was she always going to be discovered here? And how does that manage to fit so perfectly that character? Originally, she was going to be discovered that, um, Roger had shown up and just taken her on a date. No bingo. It was just going to be, they think she's in trouble. Oh my God, we have to go find chapel.

[00:26:10] Someone has kidnapped her. And then they find her and she's just on a lovely date with Roger. But, um, I, I don't, I just kept thinking of these old lady. I wanted to put these like salt vampire type women in it. And so it was like, well, what would these people be doing? And it just was like, they're playing bingo. And so, yeah, it evolved from a lovely date. I think we're talking about like at a waterfall and instead it became chapels basically on cocaine at a bingo hall.

[00:26:40] Um, and so no, so that was always planned that we would find chapel late, but the, the reveal of where we find her had changed. Uh, and I thought this was a lot funnier to get to see her just going ham on these people. And in that scene, there was some, they looked familiar. Was it a guest star who the bingo caller? That would, yeah. Yeah. There's something there. I couldn't put my finger on her. You guys can't see my ears. Those are my ears.

[00:27:07] Normally that's just, Oh, so they just good casting then. Yeah. They were like, we need a Vulcan. Oh wait, we literally have one, but they did let me keep the ears. They, they, I have them in a display case with many other Star Trek things, but that came about very late. I did not script that initially. Uh, Yana, the director had just, she needed a bingo. She was like, we don't have a bingo caller and I need something to transition on and off of that would be very helpful.

[00:27:36] And this was on a group call and somehow it came up. It would be funny if it's a Vulcan. And again, this was Akiva who there's a long running joke on all of the Star Trek. I've been doing a lot of the Star Trek seasons and shows that I've done that people tend to believe I may be a Vulcan. And, um, cause I think I, I created this character for lower decks named to Lynn, who was based on, on myself and because that was also a joke in that room. And so when they wanted a Vulcan, I just put that together.

[00:28:05] Oh my God. The name to Lynn was a placeholder. It was not meant to be named after me, but then I just stuck and everyone was like, well, you are a Vulcan. So this should just be it. So she's, she's me and looks like me and everything. So the, when this came about for strange new worlds, Akiva was like, well, Catherine is already in Toronto and he was mistaken, but he believed I would not need to be wigged or anything. He was like, look at her.

[00:28:32] She's already got the black hair and the bangs and they just have to slap some ears on. That's not the case. So every, the ball started rolling without me. I thought it was a joke. I mean, I put out an audition for like, I was like, all right, the audition sides for this role. And we, we auditioned many people and I didn't realize that the ball was already rolling. They all knew that I was just playing this role. And I was like, what? And it was a whole thing. Cause they have to do eyebrows. They have to custom like mold your eyebrows to make them go straight up and they have

[00:29:00] to do ear molds and it takes some time. And I had to leave the country of Canada to go get a work permit in Newark. And it was a whole thing. Yeah. And then it was just, there were two, three lines, I think got cut down to one. I don't actually know how to play bingo. So I said the wrong line. Thankfully, one of our sound guys was like, there can't be a B-18 or bingo doesn't work that way. And I was like, oh no, I really messed this up. You guys, Akiva put his faith in the wrong person.

[00:29:29] Are we allowed to headcanon? Is this to Lynn's mom then maybe? Ethan had a whole backstory that this is Spock's weird cousin or something. I mean, why not? We've got long lost relatives everywhere. But then the headcanon could potentially be that Spock's weird cousin is to Lynn's mother. Yeah. If we want to make that connection. I like it. I like it. Yeah. We had exactly one take of my bingo scene because this was maybe three in the morning. We were way over. My job as producer on set is to help make sure we're not.

[00:29:59] So on one hand, I'm like, guys, what are we doing? And then I'm like, wait, can I do another take? That was terrible. And they're like, nope. They're making up bingo numbers. Yes. It works really well. Yeah. I was like, after the big brouhaha and then it just cuts back to you still going through the bingo numbers. That's so good. Yeah. That was that. I just, I improvised all of it guys. So my improv background finally came into use here. There we go. So this episode is your baby.

[00:30:28] And so we are going to ask you to make a little bit of a Sophie's choice. Which one other character's storyline would you follow through the entire episode? If you could, who would you, who else would you follow besides these two? Oh man. I mean, Chapel's journey would be great to see how, how she got there and what other fights she got in. And Jess can really take things up to a 10. So I think that would be really funny.

[00:30:58] Mbenga actually had a whole journey that had to be trimmed. Oh no. Yeah. From script. We shot a little bit of it, but in script Mbenga was on a journey to become a standup comedian. Yes. And so he was doing, and this was, this is in the script. He's doing open mic at like several different places. And he's trying to nail this one joke and he like, can't get it. He's trying to find the punchlines and he's trying his comedy out on all these different people.

[00:31:27] And like, it was a whole runner that people are like, get off the stage. Yeah. He, and then he finally at the end lands the joke and that's what saves the day. That was in the original draft that he figures out the punchline. I am a huge Mbenga fan. I'm constantly making the case to these guys. Like actually the show is about Mbenga and all the other characters are here for the ride,

[00:31:56] but like this is his story. And this whole thing is why, how we find out why he's not CMO and TOS. But I am, I mourn for that, but I think it's almost better to live on as legend. Like, and you know, a small spoiler alert folks, there will be an Mbenga joke this season. So don't worry. Yep. But I mean, having said that at the same time, I was kind of thinking of you, Jesse, this scene where they see him at the bar and he's just talking about having a good time.

[00:32:24] Like I couldn't help, but like, it's an emotional scene. Cause this man has been through so much in the last three seasons and to just see him cut loose and enjoy pouring some drinks and throwing bottles around. Like it's hilarious and moving at the same time in the best way possible. And the rule of three is we get another, it is green. And every time it's been great. We like, it's I'm glad this one line has carried through for 58, 59 years now.

[00:32:51] I had to do so much explaining and sending videos because people were like, what? I don't know. What does this mean? Can we cut this line? Like here, watch this. And then watch this. It's like, it's a thing guys. It's a thing with Scotty. Yeah. It's a thing. I mean, my answer to that question is Anson Mount is so funny. I mean, this is just one of those times where you're like, this guy just wishes he could be a character actor and do this sort of thing as a living, but he's too damn good looking. But so I could watch a whole thing of him.

[00:33:20] There's the Mbinga one, but I kind of want to watch the, the Dindru one. Like just the, like the white Lotus he's scrambling around. All he wants to do is like, here, can I just give you a papaya platter? But they're asking him to kidnap them. Yeah. And he has to like, I would watch that episode. It would be great. White Lotus was definitely talked about. Oh, nice. And, and that was like, you were talking about cam earlier, how he can be, he seems like, okay, you could go either way as a character.

[00:33:47] Like he loves the, I feel like he loves the machinations. The, oh, okay. You need to be kidnapped. God, it was the being on video to make the announcement that he was uncomfortable with the rest of it. He's like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Kidnapping at two. And then we need to serve. Yeah. Papaya platter at two 15. Can you do both? Great. Where did the name Dindru come from? I just made it up. Okay. I make up for a lot of the episodes, Henry would just be like, Hey, give me a, give me a, give me a name real quick.

[00:34:17] And I would just be like, I don't know. And I would just throw out a name. It's funny. It's one of those things. I kept trying to do anagrams of, I'm like, there's a word here somewhere. Nope. I just make them up. And the whole Cessna grand set up. I mean, I'll, I'll tell you right now, everybody in our social circle is like, this is definitely Risa, right? They've seen the first preview for the season and they're like, they're going to Risa down to the point where they're like, why does Erica have an old fashioned cast? And somebody is like, well, Risa actually, there's some precedent for that.

[00:34:47] Cause their medical care. And I'm like, the amount of speculation that's happening here is great. So was there ever a point where this was Risa? And you were like, no, let's, let's make our own vacation planet. And is it because we need the atmosphere to be made of drugs? It was never going to be Risa because of that reason. It has a completely different atmosphere than Risa, but that was definitely a planet. We talked to, we kept saying it's like a Risa like planet. I think when I saw you guys last season and you said, do you have any spoilers for next

[00:35:16] season for your episode? I said Risa for mine. Yep. But then I was like, but not really that, but a little bit. Cause that's what it is. It's not, no, it's not meant to be, but it's just, we're saying there's several happy place planets. There's gotta be. There should be. So did you, when you sat down with the cast or, you know, whatever the, that process looks like, were you like, look, atmosphere is made of drugs. It affects everybody differently. Martin, you're drunk.

[00:35:45] Pike, you smoked so much weed. Celia mushrooms. Like, did you assign them something or was it just like a mood that you gave everyone? Yeah. It's in the script. It's very assigned. Um, that was actually partially a studio note. And initially we weren't necessarily going to say it in the script. Cause like writing the word cocaine and a star Trek script feels a little odd, but sometimes you need to make things super clear. So everyone can picture the same thing. And so we needed to make sure that the studio and the network and the actors and the crew

[00:36:15] and everyone would all picture the same thing. So it literally says like, let me find one. Um, it says what each of them are on very, very clearly the script. Who do we see first? Oh, it says, uh, yeah. A stoned Uhura. Yes. Yes. It says the chapel's on cocaine. Okay. Meth for Pike. Let's see. He has history playing. Very.

[00:36:42] Um, it says that Captain Pike is a happy drunk. Oh, a happy drunk. Okay. And some of it changed a little bit cause he had some pitches on that. For how to play it. I mean, it's every one of his lines. I just on the floor laughing. Like we had more, there's a lot more on the cutting room. Yeah. And the tattoo artist being just like supremely uninterested in everything.

[00:37:08] I'm like, this is, this feels like something Anson has done. Like he went to get a tattoo and tried to strike up a conversation. The guy just would not play ball. He has a lot of tattoos. Yeah. Yeah. But we, we couldn't use any of his real ones for clearance reasons. Okay. Those are not his actual tattoos. So do we know what his face tattoo says? Is that actual words in a. Yeah. There were actual words. There. He has something on his neck. I looked it up. I forgot.

[00:37:37] It was like boldly going or. Yeah. We gave them a list of words and. I know there's like a, there is an enterprise quote. I believe on his neck and like another language. I have it somewhere in my buried in my production email. Yeah. Those were a lot of star Trek quotes from like other. Cap, like from captain Archer. Oh, funny. I like that. Cause I have to put in enterprise. Yeah.

[00:38:06] To the point of like our, our discord thinking it's rice and being so sure it's right. So I, I was going to pull the video of us doing this because we were breaking down the trailer, the last trailer to come out. And there's a shot from this where they're watching the explosion, but it's kind of a wide shot. And we're like, we stopped it and we're like, there's something on Pike's face. What is that? That's, that's burnt Pike. This is, this is him in like the future with the burnt face. Guys, we were so sure. And like, we were discovering this live in our recording.

[00:38:32] And, uh, it was like, did you know that they put that shot in the trailer? I could see people being like, well, you can't put the face tattoo in the trailer, but it works so well as a red herring. Yeah. I knew, I knew it was there, but I didn't put together that people might think it was representing his burn. It's cause it's just a ridiculous face. A hundred percent sure we'd crack that image. And it's a wide shot and it's like two frames. So you're like, there's something you don't, you can't immediately tell it's a tattoo.

[00:39:01] You're just like, Oh, that side of Pike's face is the tragic side of Pike's face. This is, this is a future vision or some kind of alternate reality. And that's why you had that part tattooed. He's trying to cover up the pain of the future. Right. Oh my gosh. Now I'm going through my emails throughout through all these, all these like face tattoos. I have so many emails about face tattoos. Cause you know, they send tons of different options like makeup.

[00:39:27] Olga our makeup artist was sending all of these amazing options. Oh, here for the big one. I say, let's go with what's over the horizon. It's from an enterprise speech. I love where Captain Archer says that's what's over the horizon is what drives us to explore. Seems like something that might've inspired Pike. Also, let's say these are the voyages maybe in a Cessna language. So those are the, so yes, what's over the horizon. I think that's the way in English you can see it if you freeze frame one shot.

[00:39:57] My enterprise. That's so good. So speaking of that, that wide shot with the negotiations, who, who called the negotiations sooner? Like who, who was it that actually sent the message to bring the timeline forward for them? Cause like plot point. The saboteur. The saboteur. Okay. To get everybody on the ship at once. We had a little more to that, that had to get trimmed for time that sort of handheld that explanation.

[00:40:23] But yes, it's meant to be, it was meant to be that the saboteur, he did all of this so that everyone would be on one ship so that it could blow up and like, ha ha. You know? That makes sense. That's what I figured. I just, we had the writer here. I was like, let's find out before we just start hypothesizing. Well, and I like it. Cause I mean, so often saboteurs are bungling. Right. And it's like, no, this one pretty much got everything done. Like it was unlucky that it didn't work out, but everything worked out up till the very end for that saboteur.

[00:40:52] I will say there were like three seconds from like, man, chapel knows this planet really old. I'm like chapel on the, in on this plot. So no, no, but let's go back guys. Obviously been here before. So yeah. Yeah. That was the one thing. No, they, they wouldn't do that. I'd love like a prequel comic book issue about chapel's previous trip to this. She obviously loved it. Yeah. What drug was she on? Corby taking her. Yeah.

[00:41:17] So speaking of drugs, I mean, you have to have, you have to have a straight man character here, right? You have Erica and she's mostly sober. Is there, is there a reason for that? Is it cranial trauma? Is she just, can she handle her drug atmosphere better than the rest of the crew? Like, is there something where you're like, this is the reason why Erica seems to be more put together on this planet? We had had a couple, I can't remember if it made it in there.

[00:41:46] We, I, we shot a couple versions where it's that her anger is sobering her up because, you know, sometimes you're drunk and then something happens and you, you're like, ah, and then you like shake it off. Like she has basically done that. Okay. And so she's still a little messed up, but she's pushing through it and her, her emotional state is sobering her. Okay. Yeah. Dendry does say something about that when he comes in. Okay. Well, yeah.

[00:42:13] And she's like kind of her goal to a certain point is I just want to get back to being completely on drugs. Like if I can fix this and get rid of you. I want to come back to this party. Yeah. Then I can do the thing. Like, so that actually works really well. The whole, not to use the term again, but it's a great journey for Erica. Yeah. Before we start wrapping things up and get too far away from the question, I do want to go back because hearing about Mbenga's, you know, in another lifetime comic standup comic career was amazing.

[00:42:43] There had to have been other pitches for other characters or any others worth mentioning or that almost made it to the screen before becoming what they are. You know, most of them. Yeah. Most of their journeys stayed pretty similar. It was always going to be that Uhura is just letting go. She's so motivated. Normally we wanted to see a totally unmotivated version of her. She starts touching Erica's face. Yes. Yeah.

[00:43:10] I think in the script it says she like grabs her face and pushes her fully out the door while shutting it or something. Um, and she did such a funny version of that. Um, yeah, I mean, it was pretty, it actually stayed surprisingly besides Mbenga and besides Chapel who originally was just on a lovely date. Um, it, it stayed pretty close because we were all coming at it from a point of like, what do we know these characters to be? And what do we know these characters to need?

[00:43:39] And like Mbenga needed a happy time. He's had so much struggle and Uhura needed to let go. And, you know, um, Pike, same with Pike, you know, he just needed to get some tattoos. Ever a pitch to have Pike on a mechanical bull. That just popped in my head right now as we're talking. No, why? He's a cowboy. He likes horses. He's a cowboy. Well, horses and bulls are two different animals, Cameron. What? Okay.

[00:44:08] Here's a question. Did you know while writing this, you were not going to have Carol Kane? Because I feel like there's your obvious answer for the straight man character, right? Like she will go down and nothing changes for her, right? She's just still just huffing atmosphere trying to feel right. Like, yeah. So did you know ahead of time you wouldn't have access to her? We did know ahead of time we would not have her. We have her for a set amount of episodes.

[00:44:33] And we knew based on production schedule and needs that she was not going to be in this. But we did talk about that. How funny it would be to have her in this. Yes, because in our at least in our writers room canon, she has done so many drugs. Yeah. She could have been almost, you know, sage like in this journey. But no, we did know we would not have her. That's a great question, Jesse. In that same vein, can we right now pitch what Sam Kirk's journey would have been if

[00:45:02] he had been on this away mission? Oh my gosh. What would Sam Kirk's journey be? Sam Kirk tends to play second fiddle, right? So he would get to maybe be the lead, the lead of a story. Yeah. Yeah. Or would he have shaved his mustache and then just immediately regretted it and been he so following the blueprint, right? He would be missing a tooth. And he took it out himself, right? Yes. Like I'm not just this kind of doctor. I can do this sort of a thing.

[00:45:32] Because that was the one thing where I was like, okay, the hangover has like the three triad characters. And I'm not sitting here going like, why didn't you match that exactly? But if you were going to that's I think where Sam Kirk can fit in and he would have a moment of like, all right, neither of them is getting anything done. I will step up and this will be my time. I'm stuck on the mustache thing.

[00:45:56] I could see a version where he shaves his mustache and then into a deep, a deep cut reference to the movie Sleepaway Camp. At one point, the cop in Sleepaway Camp who has a Sam Kirk as mustache shape at some point off camera, this man shaved his mustache. And in Sleepaway Camp, he then comes back at the end and has literally electrical tape as a mustache. And it kind of it's a little bit of a meme. I love it. Yeah.

[00:46:24] You know, there's not enough Sleepaway Camp. He thinks he's getting away with it. Yeah. And it's Sleepaway Camp. So they're like, who cares? But you could have brought the duct tape back. Yes. It would have been like the one person would have said, oh, that's kind of like Sleepaway Camp. That person would have been Cameron. Yeah. It's like Samurai Cop where he got his hair cut and had to wear a terrible wig for the rest of the movie. Yeah. Cameron is the 1%.

[00:46:51] Like as you're filtering the jokes through, like if you're ever worried, nobody's going to get this one person will get it. No one will get the Sleepaway Camp reference. I'll at least fake like I know it. I didn't know that. I've seen Sleepaway Camp, but I was supposed to some other- Now when you rewatch it, look for the cop when the cop returned to the end and just duct tape for his mustache. I won't be able to see anything he does. Or electrical tape, just little black strips. So how do you land on this idea that Spock is seeing everyone as plants? Like is that-

[00:47:20] We have to talk about plants. Except Jim Kerr. Except yeah. So do you come up with the plant mind meld and then go, oh, you know, it'd be a great after effect of that? Or was it just, was it a different order of events there? No. Alan, he pitched the plant mind meld. Okay. And he had a whole long scientific name that I believe is accurate because Alan is like that.

[00:47:44] And then when I was then pitching the episode idea to Akiva, like as we're, we kind of pitch in steps to Akiva when he, he'll join us. We're like, this is what we're talking about. And I just, as a joke said, this is the problem. Joke pitches become real. 100% is a joke. I was like, and then something dumb happens. Like he sees everyone as plants because he mind melded with a plant. Like something stupid like that. That was, that was how I said it. And Akiva was like, great. Sees everyone as plants. And I was like, oh my God, now that's a real pitch.

[00:48:14] And so then, then everyone's talking about plants. And so that's what it became. So good. It's so good. I, okay. Can you read to us that description in the script? That's the one other description I must hear because you did give us a taste of it in email. And then you also, both you and here's our pitch. Tune in tomorrow for a discussion with the director, Yana, just as delightful as this one, just as many insights. And she talked about the plant scene. You hinted there's a story behind filming plants. So can we hear all that?

[00:48:44] All plant talk. All plant talk. So in the script, Spock mind melds with a plant and then tells them to go find lawn. And then it says Spock's POV. Ortegas and Scotty are plants. Scotty is a fiddle leaf fig in his bold patterned shirt. Ortegas is a cactus wearing a cast. And originally I said he's a fiddle leaf fig situation with the line.

[00:49:10] I had to trim it because it couldn't quite make the writer tricks. We have to trim a lot of stuff to make a line go up a line. How did you land on those plants specifically? I was like at Home Depot. And it was like my height. I'm very short. I'm like five feet tall. And it was like my height. And I was like, that's a human sized plant. And the cactus felt right for Ortegas. Yeah. Her character can be a little prickly. Yeah.

[00:49:40] Beautiful. Full of water. And then filming those scenes. What was the mood on set? What was the vibe? I have so many videos of the behind the scenes on these scenes because we couldn't stop laughing. And in all these videos you hear me and Yana laughing like just before they yelled cut when we shouldn't, which is fine. The line was said. And Ethan, who rarely breaks every time he said his line, he would then turn and just start laughing. It was plants.

[00:50:07] It was human sized plants on basically a furniture dolly that had a rope tied to it. And there was a crew member laying on the floor, just just pulling it and just like yanking the plants along. So they're kind of jerking and like moving and they're wearing their uniforms. And it was so stupid. And I think that's what we get. This is so stupid, but in a good way. God's stupid. But yeah, it was there was nothing smooth or high tech about it.

[00:50:36] It was they were on some little little skateboards basically. I really like that you can kind of tell. Yeah, it's like there is. Yeah, there's that's one of those gags that only works lo fi. Right? Yeah. We weren't going to like at one point, I think in an early production meeting, someone said, no, are these plants CG and they're going to be talking. And then there was a lot of confusion. People like the VFX team kept thinking, are we going to be making like little mouths that talk? And we're like, no.

[00:51:05] No, just shake a little bit. Yeah. I mean, fair to ask when you find out the entire script was written on drugs for full immersion. Right? Yeah. No, they talk. They've got mouths. I honestly, I don't know which script backstory I enjoy more. This one or like Alan's middle school story becoming reality. Yeah. It's beautiful either way. Was Scotty's finger written in the script or was that? Oh, yeah.

[00:51:35] Okay. That was, that was written in the script and that was a really fun practical effect. So he was walking around and Martin just kept playing with it all day because it was just hanging off there. It's like his hands. And yeah, it's a, I think in the, let me see how that was written in the script. I think it was. Yeah. That's funny too. Cause guys, I pretty sure we asked him like, if they ask you to cut your finger off for the character. Would you do that? Yeah. I think he did him and Han that a little bit. If I remember. Yeah.

[00:52:04] I need to go watch. He may have already seen some of this season. I need to go back. Cause there was. Do a lot for that. I couldn't believe like, I'm sure you guys know, like Ethan cut his hair into the, that was not a wig. No. Ethan has Spock hair in real life for the run of the show. I mean, he would like mess it up. And when he's not shooting, but like most shows would just like wig a character like that. But he, he shaved his eyebrows on half of it and cut his hair that way.

[00:52:32] I didn't want to say before we leave the plant thing too much, like his performance as drunk spot, drunk Spock is so good because like, he could have just played it like Spock and the joke is like, I'm drunk, but he's not acting. There's like just the 7% drunk. He's playing like when he's a slight lean, when he's walking, just the slightest slur that makes it work. Like, I don't know. It's, it was really, really well done. Yeah. I think for me, it's like the opening the eyes extra wide in an attempt to focus.

[00:53:02] Like it's just, it's so subtle, but it's perfect. Yeah. And, and, uh, Kirk, I mean, he did such a great job. Yeah. Yeah. So is he, is he affected? It's like, oh yeah. He's on Molly. Okay. I think he wants to be bros. He wants to hug and touch. There were a couple things trimmed where at one point in a hug, he like rubs his hand up and you know, and he's just like, this is nice. This is nice.

[00:53:32] Like he just wants to touch everything. Did you know you were giving the Spirkers like so many presents with this or was that a happy coincidence? That was very, that was very purposeful. I mean, genuinely, I was really excited to get to watch and to get to create and write Spock and Kirk becoming best friends. Like that to me was a, was a really special thing as like a lifelong Trekkie who knows them as best friends, but we have yet to see it. And I was like, I get to be the one who vocalizes that as there. Now you're my human best friend.

[00:54:02] To know that it happened on a bender. Yeah. And it happened. Yeah. And this is canonical. So now when you watch TOS, you'll know how that all started. Yeah. So in the security room, did Ortegas and Scotty see Kirk then? No. Or did he set up? There was like, you couldn't quite tell it the way it's shot. There's like a little, a little hall there that came out of. All right. Yeah. They didn't see him until I think on the ship when they're like, Oh, Hey. Yeah. And I love like the way it is shot is perfect for Spock to be questioning. Was that right? Right. Yeah.

[00:54:32] Oh, you're a figment of my imagination. And it's like, Kirk never addresses that. He just keeps pushing forward with his Molly brain. Like it's the craft on this episode is so high level. Like every little piece of it fits like the silliest puzzle. And I'm so grateful that we have this. Like, and to know that this episode will be airing while there are tons of Trekkies in Las Vegas celebrating Star Trek.

[00:55:02] Like I believe this will become a staple. Like this will be a thing you do from now on when you go to Vegas. There'll be the says not a room at. Yeah. You go and watch this episode together depending on. Then go play bingo and. Exactly. Brawl. Yeah. Okay. Let's just speak this out into the universe. Now the four of us, let's get this on the sphere. Oh, yeah. There we go. I don't know how, but. Or next year's STLV have a bingo just as our. Yeah. Have a bingo.

[00:55:33] I will go. I will go to the bingo. And everyone needs to drink like green shots. Yep. Yep. All right. I'm sorry. I deviated us from you were going to read us the Scotty's finger. Scotty finger. Yes. Oh, it's, it's so short. Um, I think we're alive. Spock, you are indeed alive. Ortegas and Scotty both slowly start laughing. We're alive. We're alive. And then. Did we really just come that close to dying? That was really, really close. I was holding a bomb in it. And then it just says he holds his hand up revealing.

[00:56:03] And then at all capital, his thumb is hanging off. Oh shit. And then Scotty says, ah, this really hurts. I need a copy of the script. That was always scripted. Oh, and so well performed. Like. He's so funny. I think it's the hardest I've ever laughed at anything in Star Trek. Just, just shocked. Like, cause it. Yeah. And I know this episode didn't originally follow the horror episode, but it's so perfect following the horror episode. Like.

[00:56:32] Both as like a relief valve, but even that scene, like we just had like people surviving ears being cut off and being gutted. Fingers being cut off. But in a hilarious way, like. Yeah. Yeah. This episode saved me because after the second episode, I was like incredibly bummed out. Like I loved the episode, but I am not as they say a horror girly.

[00:56:57] So I was like, this is not, I like, I'm going to rewatch this, especially for the podcast, but like it's very intense and it affected me big time, which we now know the writers are very happy to hear. And so I'm glad I could provide them with that, but this is absolutely like, okay, I'm saved. I'm, I'm back in the exact mode that I need to be for the rest of the season. It was the structure happened to work out really well. And I'm very impressed with it.

[00:57:27] Yeah. Good. Well, Catherine, when all is said and done, we've talked a lot about this episode, a lot of things, a lot of memorable things, a lot of firsts for this episode. But what do you think this episode will go down in history being known as when people say, oh, it's the one with? What's the first thing people will say? You know, I, I, I avoid social media, so I'm not fully versed in how people talk about the shows I've worked on online.

[00:57:56] I do know that some lower decks episodes made people quite upset when they, when people felt they were non serious or, or, or in a way were below what Star Trek deserved. So I, I will say I had some reservations about, cause I was like, is this going to be, why did they do a drug episode? Um, I hope it doesn't go down like that. I hope it's looked at more like the Risa episodes and things like that, that are like,

[00:58:24] it's just a fun romp basically, you know, but, but with heart, that was a big part of why I really wanted the bomb and I really wanted all of that stuff so that there would, it would still be a real Star Trek episode. I never wanted this to feel like we're deviating so far that we're just making Harold and Kumar in space or, you know, dude, where's my car in space? Like, or the hangover. Like I, I wanted to make sure at the end of the day, like this is a Star Trek episode

[00:58:50] with a lot of feeling behind it and things like that, but that it would be funny. But I do think people will call it the drug episode. It's funny that you mentioned the social media reactions. I've seen both sides of the Boimler holding his ankles behind his ears coin, which is either like, this is what Star Trek is now, how far we have fallen. And then other people going, this is what 60 years of Star Trek has been building to, to make this joke work. And it's perfect.

[00:59:20] So it's like, you really will get both sides here. But I'm, I'm, I am firmly in the yes, Boimler should be holding his ankles behind his ears. I think 90% of people are. Like 90% of people are. I have to assume. And if not, we'll delude myself into believing it. Cause it's like, if you hate fun, just say that. I mean, don't watch Star Trek if you hate fun that much. Yeah, we definitely, we embrace both sides of the, the fandom coin, you know, in Lower Decks, we were, we were certainly aware of it.

[00:59:48] And so I remember when someone online, I guess, started calling it Star Trek, they said, but we, and we embraced it. We, that became our like joke every day. Like, you know, here we are just writing Star Trek, but like, but we were a room full of Trekkies who love it so deeply that we're not going to write something that we as Trekkies wouldn't want to see. Well, being on social media a lot, I will say like the number of posts I see of people saying, like, I crossed my arms on the musical for two years.

[01:00:17] I thought it would be the worst thing ever. And then I watched it and loved it. Or the same with people who are like, well, I just never gave Lower Decks a chance. You're like, no, no, no. Trust me. Watch Lower Decks. It's some of the best Star Trek out there. And then they come back and be like, okay, I watch it. I get it now. So I think like probably 90% of that is coming from people who haven't seen it yet and will change their minds if they do watch it. That's a good point. And not social media, just directly to the writer. Wedge Dudege is in my top three Star Trek episodes of all time.

[01:00:44] I think that is one of the most Star Trek Star Trek episodes I've ever seen. And thank you. Well, I will watch that on repeat. If it's like this is all you get to watch. Great. Great. That was that one was an absolute joy to write. I said, I love the movie Four Rooms. Can we just do Four Rooms in Star Trek? Yeah. That episode gets me every single time. So I'm glad I actually get to say it to you. Thank you for that episode. Yeah.

[01:01:12] And I think the lesson here is like if you are making a Star Trek and Catherine brings you an idea, you do not tell her no. Like just green light it and move forward. I have endless terrible ideas. I think I sometimes would come into the room and be like Bloodsport. Oh, yes. Yes. At one point I pushed Megaforce, which no one knows the movie Megaforce. But I kept coming into the room and just saying, did anyone watch Megaforce?

[01:01:42] And like try to get there's like a John Stamos young Bond movie called Never Too Young to Die. I kept coming in and trying to pitch Never Too Young to Die. Like what am I doing? Star Trek if looks could kill. There you go. I'm sure I would have. We need to start an open Pike night, Catherine Lynn movie night somehow. Yeah. I'd make you guys watch Megaforce. Yes, absolutely. You'll not be happy with me. We'll be like, okay, this is why they turned that pitch down. Yeah. Yes.

[01:02:11] No, but Bloodsport though. I mean, come on. Bloodsport. 100%. Star Trek Bloodsport. Yes. You already see what the episode would be too. Oh yeah. There's Klingons. One level is like a Vulcan with a Lyrpa. I mean, it's conversations people have been having for six decades. Who could be who could be who? So yeah. I mean, I'm just a movie. That's the next. Season five, right? You're giving us since the season five. That'll be. I'll pitch a whole new Star Trek series that launches with Star Trek Bloodsport.

[01:02:42] I have always wanted the Star Trek anthology series. I mean, Star Wars got theirs. It's animated. It's some of the best Star Wars I've ever seen. Like, come on. We got close with short treks, but I would love an anthology series. Yeah. Mm-hmm. For this episode though, what is your favorite line? You know, I quite like the title line. We didn't have a title for this episode until after it was done shooting.

[01:03:11] It was always an untitled episode, you know, four. I think it was 402 when we shot, I think 403 now. But I just really liked that line. And so the, the, I have never had what humans call a human best friend. And then his reaction, like we don't actually call it a human best friend. So I quite liked that. And I also really like, um, backwards human logic when he deduced the bomb. And so, um, yeah, I liked that. There was something Chapel yelled about.

[01:03:40] I can't forget how it's written. Something about, give me your first born cause I'm coming for it. Or something like, I liked that. And she delivered it so well. Well, on just screaming fight club. I think that's the one I wrote down watching it last night. I heard. Yeah. Her arc is like, yeah, he's quick, but it absolutely tracks all the way through. Like, so naturally now I'm their leader. And you're just like, this, this completely makes sense. Oh, and the whole bit about like, give me your shirt. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:10] And when he, when he says like, it's, it's my favorite shirt or whatever. It does have some important value. That shirt cat. If I ever find that shirt available, I asked them to make, I was like, can't we license it? Like, I wish we could sell it. Yeah. We're working on that. That would be a great thing. Yeah. I don't know where that landed. I should check in with them. Cause I was really pushing it hard that like, we should make this and sell it as a branded shirt. People would buy it. I asked Bernadette and she said someone branding asked for the design. So fingers crossed.

[01:04:39] It was like for marketing and not for their own personal views. Probably. They just wanted that. But I'll check in. I'll let you guys know what I find, but I would love that shirt. Absolutely. Well, Catherine, thank you so much for hanging out with us and talking about human best friend. And I, I hope everybody listening enjoyed this conversation as much as we thoroughly have. Thank you for having me. This has been a lot of fun. I think a big thing that I like about this series where we talk to writers and directors

[01:05:09] is like, we can obviously watch it and go, here's the thing I love about this, but learning what the creators love about it, I think really helps to kind of connect people to the human side of this. And like you were saying, when a show, once a show is out, people are going to feel how they're going to feel. Right. But I think it really helps to know that the people making this Star Trek love Star Trek and that absolutely shines through. So thank you for this episode. This is one of my favorites.

[01:05:39] Oh, you're welcome. I hope that other people agree. I've been, I've been a little nervous about this one. I loved you guys so much so much if you could see us today. It's a part of being, especially when you're out with us today. That's a part of being a part of it. I was so excited to do all this one and I have to leave with you. Let's just stander here. We can see a little moment and everything, except my