SNW S4E1 - “Valles Marineris”

[00:00:08] Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Welcome to Open Pike Night, the Strange New Worlds Podcast, where your personal logs are the prime directive. I'm your host, John T. Boulds, here tonight to talk episode one of season four of Strange New Worlds, Valles Marineris.

[00:00:40] Now, we were having a little conversation. Who's we, you ask? Well, it's my co-host. First up, joining me is the man who wanted to compare body counts for some reason, and then we said, well, Pike kind of wins on that one with this episode, Jesse Bailey. You said we, and our language contains over 10 different words for that. So your translating machine chose the word podcaster. Is that correct? Yeah. How could you tell? Because there are three of us, and we're white.

[00:01:10] Oh, yeah. Two beards. Well, two and a half beards. And, yes, with half a beard, Cameron Harrison. Sorry, man. It was right there. Fuck this planet. What are you gonna do? Blow it up? Which is funny, because that's a line from a movie about Mars. Yes. Not about Earth. I love that movie. I love Mission, not Mission to Mars. I love Red Planet.

[00:01:40] I love that last line. I love almost every Mars. Yes, exactly. Like, that's how you end a movie. That's how you end a Martian movie. Yep. It has been a while, gentlemen. I'm so excited to be back for a new season of this show with you. Heck yeah. Heck yeah. I mean, of course, we've already done like 12 interviews for this season, but like a real bonafide coverage episode. I'm very excited to hear what everybody thought of this.

[00:02:03] Absolutely. And man, when I said your calls, your personal logs are the prime directive, our listeners stepped up. We have 16 calls and a write-in tonight. So let's go ahead and hear from halfway around the world from Anthony. Yeah. Hi, this is Lucas Kelly.

[00:02:23] And Anthony Kelly up here in Hong Kong, where we're at the tail end of a big typhoon that must have somehow provided enough quantum energy to rubber band us somewhere where we can watch Paramount Plus legally.

[00:02:35] Absolutely. Well, I really enjoyed the episode this week. And in the spirit of the opening scene, here are the good, the bad and the, um, run that by me again. The good was how amazing the show looked. It was gorgeous. The dinosaurs, the space typhoon, how amazing the Martians looked. I wish that Lower Decks were still on because they would have a field day with the world of John Carter Martians.

[00:03:00] And the bad, well, I really wish I'd gone into this episode without spoilers. The surprise dinosaurs were in the trailer and a popular space news website actually ran the headline, dinosaurs, Martians, and a fifth planet where the asteroid belt should be. Wow.

[00:03:17] Yeah, it was a little bit spoiled. Oh, and the, um, run that by me again? So let me get this straight. Does every Federation starship have antimatter batteries that can red matter a planet out of existence? That's a little bit worrying. Almost as worrying as the thought that Pike might be responsible for a genocide now. And the episode seems fine with that.

[00:03:43] I'm pretty sure that if Q put Pike on trial for humanity's crimes, the evidence in this episode would be pretty incriminating. Oh, and I was expecting a cowboy adventure. Where's my damn cowboy adventure? Anyway, it was a good episode overall, and, uh, I can't wait to hear what you all thought of it.

[00:04:00] But anymore, it's like, you cannot watch even a trailer if you want to not be spoiled, right? Like that. I do wonder what the impact of the dinosaur presence would be without that trailer mentioning it. I mean, they make such a meal out of the big reveal, like cross cutting between the two plot lines. Like, and I mean, it's done well, but the whole time I'm sitting there, I'm like, yes, it's dinosaurs.

[00:04:25] It's dinosaurs. Yeah. I mean, when we were doing our trailer react, I was like, I kind of don't want to watch that trailer. But you know, being the professionals we are, I had to watch the trailer. But I also get it. I mean, if you're a PR person, you're like, we're showing them the fucking dinosaurs, guys. Right. Yeah. It's, it's gotta be tough as a writer. Like you write all that tension in and you're like, oh, I can't wait for people to see this. And then they see it a month ahead of time in a, you know, 80 second trailer.

[00:04:52] All right. Yeah. And you're like, well, okay, I hope they like the rest. Yeah. It's that, or it's just Uhura and Asha. It's just their interactions coming to like, wow. So this season is going to be a lot of talking, a lot of awkward talking. All right. Yeah.

[00:05:06] And I can't disagree on the cowboy of it all because I mean, they, they, those shots are gorgeous. They really linger on the process. Like it's beautifully done and it is kind of just extra, right? Like, I guess he's been riding horses for a while.

[00:05:23] So it's, I'm glad we have those shots and I'm glad that we got kind of a moment of peace for Pike there. Um, but we should have known better. Like they're not going to give this guy peace without immediately throwing him into turmoil. Right. Yeah. Well, and I mean, it's not peace. He's running from his past and his future sort of. Right. But no, I know what you mean in that moment. My question real quick guys, sorry, but what's happening in that first scene? What's happening? Like what, what just happened?

[00:05:53] So they just dropped off a bunch of medicine and then ran away. And why are they running away? So that nobody realizes they're not from there because it's a non warp civilization, right? It's probably an alien civilization. Where are the, where, where did the horses go or where do they come from? All right. Look in, in, in a universe full of planets with humanoids on them.

[00:06:18] Look, I know the books are not prime Canon, but like the high country, the whole, there's a whole plot point about how bizarre it was that earth horses lived on this planet. And here Pike's just like, nah, horses. Cam, did you not see the floating cliffs? As soon as they got off the horses, the horses and horses just like flipped upside down and went to one of the little horse floating cliffs. So it was, yeah, it was a pretty hilarious scene, but yeah, they just like, shoot. It's in the deleted scenes. Don't worry.

[00:06:46] Yeah. That's not, I mean, it took me like three watches and just like thinking about the opening. Like, what am I going to talk about the opening? Wait, why are there horses? They didn't be back on with them. If Pike has his own saddle and his quarters are as big as they are, it's not unreasonable to assume he's got a set of horses. That there's a stable on the enterprise somewhere. This, this Star Trek show more than any other be storing stuff in the buffer. So there's a horse buffer.

[00:07:11] I mean, it's not a real bump, but I, yeah, it's, it's funny, man. Imagine how many times they have to purge the horse buffer. And it's like, all right, we got to find more horses again. That sucked. But if they were their horses, why would the alien, wouldn't the aliens be like, uh, what are these creatures? What is that? Maybe so, maybe so, but there is another theory about what was just happening. So let's go ahead and hear from our good buddy and patron, uh, Sinusara. Yeah.

[00:07:41] What is up open Pike night? It's Steve from the battle States theatrical podcast. And I got to say, I am just beyond thrilled that we're finally getting firefly season two. Sorry. Sorry. We were finally getting strange new world season four. I thought we were watching the end of the train job. Clearly they were, they delivered medicine on horseback to a, to a dusty planet. That would come on. That's the train job. Somebody knew what they were doing and it was just tugging at my heartstrings. I'm just, I'm thrilled that everyone's back.

[00:08:10] Um, you know, we get, we get Sam in the premiere we get. Uh, and then of course we dealt with the morality of traveling through time and possibly making it. So humanity doesn't exist. And our solar system is overrun by arachnids. And then instead of Starfleet existing, it's actually a federation full of troopers going, oh, let's kill some arachnids. That that's, I think if Pike hadn't, if he had, if he had stopped that missile, we wouldn't have much less wouldn't have humanity, but we wouldn't have Starfleet for sure.

[00:08:39] We'd have a bunch of neo-fascist gun toting Federation people running, running through the system and fighting arachnids. So thank you, Captain Pike for, for not letting that happen until next week. So say we all, I mean, I mean, live long and prosper. I love Sinister. He's a great friend and a great patron, but, uh, I had to actually cut some, some, uh, pop culture references out of his call.

[00:09:05] I know there was a lot of talk of the doctor who crossover that didn't happen, but a Firefly strange new worlds crossover. Man. My butts in that seat. Like straight. Oddly enough. I think Firefly takes place after most of Star Trek. If you just look at years from, cause that's 500 years in the future. Right. True.

[00:09:33] Don't you think Pike would just plead guilty immediately? He'd be like. And then you know what Q would do? He would burn him in fire. I'm just saying, we don't know that Q doesn't put Pike on trial and find him guilty. I just, I think Pike, there's some interesting stuff with Pike in this episode because like, yes, this thing happens and it is his inaction. Right. Right. That causes this, this thing.

[00:09:58] It's so there's a little bit of wiggle room there, I think for him personally, but he does also say like, Hey, I would have done exactly what she did in her position. No, he wouldn't. So it's like, is, is that his way of saying I fully understand what she was doing or is that him actually saying that's what I would do? I would steal some other person's technology and murder hard on the entire planet. No, he wouldn't.

[00:10:25] Like he would, he did sacrifice trillions to save trillions. That's like, he, he, he'd do the same spiritual thing, but he wouldn't do exactly what she did. I bumped on that line. I was like, Pike, you're, you're too hard on yourself. But I think that's what it is. It's him wrestling with it. Right. I feel like he would have been noble, noble and been like, maybe it's just our time.

[00:10:47] Maybe, you know, maybe we deserve to lose, you know, what, what's, is it worth sacrificing our Marsanity to, to win this war? Yeah. I mean, I, I have, it's, if you're a listener of a green shirt, you might be familiar with frequent guest, John C. Myers, who has time travel issues. Uh, I don't have as big problems with time travel stories as he does, but at the end of this, I was like, just to be clear, he has issues with time travel stories.

[00:11:15] He is not a time traveler with issue. Well, right. Yet to be determined. But at the end, I was like, okay, you got called by your own buoy. All right. That's real. But I mean, the, the theory would be that like, at some point, uh, the planet, the fifth planet did get destroyed. All this had to have happened somehow to get humanity there.

[00:11:39] And then, and then there was just time paradoxes and they had to keep happening, keep happening, keep happening until one, like finally stuck like this. It's like, so Pike did have to do this. Otherwise it would have just kept repeating until, until the same thing happened. Does that make sense? Well, it's, we're talking about time travel here. It's interesting too, because we know from tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow that the timeline has shifted. Like the prime timeline has shifted a little bit. Right.

[00:12:07] And we know from at least the next generation that when the timeline shifts, ripples can go both forward and backwards. Right. So like maybe this didn't happen until now. And now this is the new thing that has always happened, which again gets into the language of discussing paradoxes. But like maybe this wasn't originally part of Pike's fate.

[00:12:31] And I do think it's important to remember, as you have mentioned frequently, Cameron, fate exists and is a real thing in Star Trek. That's what I mean. At some point, this planet got destroyed. And at some point it had to have gotten destroyed without time travel. But then the effect of it getting destroyed caused a time hole. And then people started going back and like, eventually it had to write itself so that this happened. What if it's a time loop that every Starfleet ship goes through at some point?

[00:12:57] And they're all just keeping it secret from the Cerritos when the Enterprise, the Enterprise B. You killed the Doldren? I thought I killed the Doldren. What? Everyone. I love it. Morgan Bateson had to go back. He's like, not again. And that outrageous Okana. Yeah. If there were ever an episode that would benefit from having a burling off Rasmussen on the bridge during it, it's this. Yeah. And I would love to see him lose all semblance of pretense, right?

[00:13:26] Just like, look, if you do this, here's what happens. It's like, I don't want to be there for this. Or just have him be like, trillions? You killed trillions? You have never done that before. And as soon as they get back in time, he's like, this is not how this was supposed to go. But I do, like, specifically from, you know, talking about this with the writer and director, it's like, I get it.

[00:13:52] I completely get why you tell yourself, like, I'm going to do a time travel episode. It's going to have Mars. It's going to have dinosaurs. Like, I get it. Totally understand. And I did really enjoy it. I think it's good when at the end of a Trek episode that you had a lot of fun with, you go, now, hang on. I have ethical questions. Well, let's see if anybody else has some ethical questions. Here is Sarah. Hi, OpenPike Night. It's Sarah slash Doug.

[00:14:20] Except for this season and this episode, it's Sarah, short for Triceratops. Nice. It was so great. I loved episode one. And it felt like it was just for me because, get this, I'm a geologist who's studied paleontology for many, many years. So, TIC, dinosaurs. I train horses in my spare time and I live in a horse farm. So, TIC, opening scenes, really made my heart glad.

[00:14:47] And I totally get the hate and the jokes about engineers because I work with a lot of engineers in my job. And geologists and engineers, we just do not get on. So, I really loved the jokes about engineers versus pilots. That was wonderful. Yeah, it was just great. I hated the closing shots, the fake dinosaur. No, it was awful.

[00:15:16] But everything else was just glorious. It was a lot of fun. So, thanks, guys. If I'm reading this correctly, Sarah is trying to tell us she's actually a Starfleet captain, right? Like, she's really into science, really into riding horses. Like, that's two-thirds of what you need to be. I use with engineers. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's what you got to have to be a Starfleet captain. And I will say, like, I'm not an engineer. But as a person who works with some, there are times where I'm like, I'm so grateful that I can just tell this to an engineer.

[00:15:46] Because they're not going to, like, have any feelings about it. They're not going to, like, go, well, what about this other idea? They're going to go, does that get it done? Cool, let's do that. And I love that about working with engineers personally. But I hear you. I absolutely hear you on that. I've had some conversations with engineers in my time in operations where it's like, all right, buddy. I get that on paper. This looks great. But here's what I'm telling you. And if I have to hit you with a wrench to tell it to you, I'll do that. Don't worry.

[00:16:15] But I do. I really like that as well. And I think the dynamic here is great. And I think I mentioned this either in our writer or director interview, but I would not have picked Scotty and Ortegas as, like, a pairing that I felt I needed to see more of, right? But they do a great job here. It's like we need a connecting thread for them. And it sounds like this is pulled from, like, actual military experience that they've learned about where it's like, yes, frequently in the military, engineers and pilots disagree.

[00:16:43] So this is just another great thread. And I think it's already borne fruit here in this first episode. And I'm really excited to watch where it goes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it was one of our season three episode coverages. People were calling in and saying, like, let's see some Erica and Scotty. Like, who loves the shit more than these two characters? So. And like having Pellia with Scotty in season three was great. But it's like, OK, that's two engineers. And one of them is, you know, quote unquote, a guest star. We know.

[00:17:12] So it's nice to see Scotty is part of the crew. Like, he is on the crew of the Enterprise now. And that is a fact. So it's good to see. Now, there is a thing that I have to bring up to you guys. And I think it's best if I kind of catch you off guard with it. So pop quiz, open pike trivia. Oh, man. Oh, jeez. John and Cameron. OK. This is not going to involve buzzers. It's too much set up. Just yell out your answer when you have it.

[00:17:41] What is the name of the Martian battle commander? Oh, Cassell. John wins. Saffron Burroughs. That's one point for John. I'm going to keep track of these all season. Well, I'm glad. I think she says it once. And then I think maybe one or two other characters say it maybe two more times for the rest of the episode. I did get lost because I was like, this is a great performance. I'm really digging this. And she really feels like an equal to Pike. Right.

[00:18:10] Like she definitely has different methods than he does for most of the episode. And you kind of get this yin and yang thing going on. And I really, really loved her performance. Yeah. Yeah. So what did you guys feel about the last shot? I liked it. I liked it.

[00:18:30] I enjoyed it because it is just a little bit of a celebration of it, especially having known that it's like, well, I mean, yeah, sucks that they did all this hard work to protect. Well, they're all dead. But I mean, if you're going to put dinosaurs in Star Trek, it's like savor it, dine out on it a little bit. And I'm glad they did. I think you meant to say dino out. But yeah, I think for me, I agree. Like totally works. If you have this here, you have to do this.

[00:18:57] And I will say just, you know, to kind of pander a little bit to what Sarah was saying, you better believe I immediately went and looked up iridium and learned that it is most concentrated on Earth around that. What I think it's called the KT barrier. So it's like the KT barrier. They went for this whole hog. Like they went, OK, well, where would they find this? They'd find it around the time the dinosaurs ended.

[00:19:24] And like they're looking for iridium and there's this huge thing and there's the doldrum ship there that has iridium on it. So it's like, I mean, for all of the science, I don't want to say failures for all of the science choices they chose not to make. They did make some really solid science choices for this episode. And I think that's cool. And it works in Star Trek to make me want to learn more about things like that's that's really cool. Now, on that same note, I was like, oh, great. They put feathers on their dinosaurs.

[00:19:53] But not on the T-Rex, right? Because your T-Rex has to look like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park if you want to do the roar. So it was an interesting bit of balance, I think, that they pulled off here. What about you, Cameron? How did you feel about that shot? So Una stands up and she's like, OK, let me tell you about the dinosaurs. We crossfaded the shot of the three of them standing there with the beauty light on them and La'an smiling and them looking at each other. And I welled up. I got really emotional. And I was like, yes, this is working for me. And then they cut away from their faces.

[00:20:23] And I'm like, OK, brontosaurus and pterodactyl. That's cool. And then it kept going. And I was like, all I need to see is the actress faces. Give me the characters faces reacting to this. And that is 10 times more emotional than this really long, moderately OK CGI shot of dinosaurs. Someone in our discord was like, it's 2026. We've seen the shot dozens of times before. It's not new. And I'm kind of like, yeah, I ended on the characters faces. That's where the emotion was for me.

[00:20:52] Well, I'm not here to agree with Cameron and I'm not going to. But I will say one thing that buttresses your argument is the great Sam Neill. Rest in peace. Like one of the greatest cinematic movie moments ever is just him reacting to seeing a dinosaur. 100%. And then it cuts to the dinosaur and you're like, that's cool. But like what hits you is him taking off the glasses. Yes. Yes.

[00:21:18] So again, I don't, I'm not going to agree because I'm glad we have this shot, but I hear you and this is as close as I can come to agreeing. I mean, I almost wonder if I would have been OK with it if it had gone backwards. If it started with the dinosaurs and then zoomed in onto their faces. I do think that I'll agree with you. That would have been a better way to end it is coming up on them. I just enjoy the fact that I'm standing there with a shattered hand. Yeah. This dinosaur like recovered pretty quickly.

[00:21:48] The T-Rex is like, no, no, I'm a badass. Really? I didn't just get phased and like distracted by a pterodactyl. That felt weird. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from another caller. Here is Trev. It's Trev beaming in from the Fairlighter Franchise podcast to offer my report on the season four premiere of Strange New Worlds. An episode I'm happy to say I really quite enjoyed. I feel like a lot of the discussion that's going to occur around this episode is going to revolve around the time travel reveal that the Enterprise and our crew are actually responsible.

[00:22:15] Not just for the extinction of the dinosaurs, but also all result in human evolution and therefore our entire history. This is a big, admittedly kind of corny idea. And I could see it striking some as maybe a pretentious move made by showrunners and writers who want to make their iteration of Trek feel like the most important Trek show. I mean, the most important story ever in a sense, right? And I'll admit, at first I wondered if it was a bit too silly of an idea. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized it does feel like something TOS would have done, especially in season three. So whatever.

[00:22:45] What I actually think is the more interesting discussion and possibly debate about this episode is Pike's decision to allow the bomb to go off and the planet and its civilization to perish. I love a great time travel story where people must make huge sacrifices to allow time to go on as intended. Hello, sitting on the edge of forever. But in this instance, the decision was made so quickly and Pike had no evidence or reason to believe this was the moment this was supposed to happen. For all he knows, the planet was meant to live on for another few million years before meeting its fate. So I don't know.

[00:23:13] That felt a little out of character for the Pike we know to me. But overall, this episode did what a premiere should do. Set up new status quos and potential arcs for our characters. And just hit the ground running with an exciting adventure that reminds us how fun the show can be. It feels good to be back, both with the show and with discussing the season with you guys and the rest of the OPN callers. Thanks, guys. I'm glad that you brought up City on the Edge of Forever because there are a lot of parallels here, right? Like, City on the Edge of Forever, kind of like the surprise, is supposed to be like,

[00:23:43] No, Kirk needs to let this woman die. Right. And this is kind of in that same vein. It's just that the scale is impossibly much larger. Right. Now, the difference there is that Spock is able to kind of piece it together and say, like, Well, in this version of history, if she lives, here's what happens. And then everything is bad.

[00:24:04] There was no Spock figuring out like, oh, based on carbon dating or whatever, this is the exact moment this is supposed to happen. And I'm kind of thinking about this whole sequence of events of like, because there was already so much uncertainty. They're like, well, we can't really shoot. Great. All of our sensors are not back. And I'm not sure on guidance right now with photons. Like, does this hit different if he tries to stop it and they just miss?

[00:24:33] And then everything bad happens anyway? And then they realize like, oh, okay. Well, you know, this does end up leading to our version of history. So I guess it's okay. Right. Like, sort of a thing. So like, would that sit better, I think, for some people? And I don't know, because I don't know that either of you have like a specific issue with the choice that he made. But like, does that muddy it too much? I've seen like, yeah, people. And I mean, we've kind of heard people talk about like, wow, he killed all those people. I'm like, I don't know.

[00:25:03] Like, he figured out that it had to happen. Like, again, it happened. He's just here to make sure it continues to happen. Yeah. It gets into the loop argument of would it have happened if he wasn't there? Is he making a decision or not? And it's all so like intellectual and heady too. Like, you're kind of putting together like the asteroid belt thing and everything. And so like, you kind of, the morality gets lost a little bit. That's why they're at the end.

[00:25:29] They're just like, I mean, it's basically their version of the end of burn after reading. I don't know what the hell just happened, but it's done. Story over. It's like, yeah, I will say like the cruise reaction makes the paradox thing work better for me. Like, thankfully, at least Ortega is there to say what the audience is thinking, which is like, wait, what? Yeah. And that's great. I think that helps it because it is like, okay, you could literally, and people will, fans are going to argue this for another 60 years. So, I mean, that's definitely a good thing.

[00:25:58] You know who did figure it out though, Jesse? Me. I just, like, I just, I never like it when I feel smarter than the crew. And like, the whole time I'm kind of like, so where are the doldrums from? Like, they must be from another planet, right? Like, why is Pike not asking where these insect aliens are coming from? Like, I feel this is something he would ask Cassell about. And then as soon as they mention there's another planet, you're like, oh, okay. It's going to get blown up and become the asteroid belt. Like, got it. Check.

[00:26:27] And like, everyone's like, no, what are you doing, Kevin? And I'm like, no, no, it's supposed to happen, guys. You don't have a fifth planet in the future, right? Right? Oh, yeah. See, Pike just said it. So that was a little bit like, I felt like I was a little ahead of the story there and I didn't like that part of it. When the asteroid, like, moves off and hits the Earth and that's the dinosaur killing asteroid, that I didn't see coming. I thought that was pretty cool. That was a nice little. See, I would go the other way on that because I feel like I got there right as they were getting there. But then with the asteroid, I was like, oh, that's the Shik's Kalu asteroid.

[00:26:57] Like, as soon as they fired, I'm like, okay, the part of it's going to, like, that's when I was like, yep, I see where this is going. Yeah. And I don't know, like, I can hear you with that. I just, for me, this is so pulp. It's very pulp. It's like, there are going to be tropes here and I don't care. Like, I'm happy with that. I guess it's just the crew, like, taking so long to catch up. I was like, maybe if they caught up a little bit quicker, I'd be better with it. But I get it.

[00:27:25] You want to pull out the drama. Yeah. In that vein, let's hear from our buddy Grayson over at Prime Detective Podcast. Hello, open Pike night. Yes, it's me, Grayson from the Prime Detective Podcast. So I am absolutely terrified about recording these words because I know that the people who make strange new worlds listen to open Pike night. So let me start by saying it is not you, Star Trek makers. It's me. Alan McElroy said on Strange New Words that this story is something that's been in his head

[00:27:54] since junior high, which I really hope that everyone who has a project that they love from their imagination in a drawer hears him say so that they know it still has potential. I'd like to believe that even in my advanced Gen Xdom, I'm still that kid. On the other hand, this story to me felt very much like it was thought up by a kid in junior high school. It's got Westworld on Pandora, Jurassic Park, a female Ming the Merciless, a Starship Troopers

[00:28:21] bug planet, the crashed ship from Prometheus, Alderaan. Maybe I'm projecting, but it's like watching the dream of a kid who always had a red envelope from Netflix in his mailbox. There's language in the script that does explain some of my nitpicks, but the big thing I'm bumping on is all the characters lack of existential crisis at the end. It's weird. They butterfly affected humanity into existence. And then they're all like, OK, drinks.

[00:28:48] Maybe it's Andy Weir or Neil Stevenson or Martha Wells' fault. But I think I might be aging out of this kind of pulpy sci-fi. Or maybe they want my guard down. And if that's the case, this was a masterpiece because my expectations have been expertly managed. Well played. Strange new worlds. Well played. I invented it's not you. It's me. Thank you for giving me a chance to say that, Grayson.

[00:29:13] And I think it's interesting because, like I said, for me, like tropes in Star Trek are par for the course. But I absolutely could see where you'd be like, I know these things. I've seen these things. Give me a new thing. So it's an interesting perspective. What do you guys think about that? I'll just say that, you know, I want to give some caveats here. This episode did not quite work for me. And my caveats are it's the only one of the first bunch that I feel that way about.

[00:29:42] Every other one I liked a lot to loved. So I'm not the hater here. And the other thing is I do feel a little vindicated in that I'm so glad to hear so many people did enjoy this episode. I want people to like it because it's a fun episode. And I do think to kind of Grayson's point on paper, it's everything I want. Dinosaurs, time travel, Martians, insect aliens. Like, let's give it all to me. I want all that pulpy stuff. And so I get all that and I want people to enjoy it. I want them to keep watching the series. But I do.

[00:30:10] I hear all my issues with it. I have heard echoed from other people. So I know that like other people are picking up on them, too. It's just, well, it seems like other people are like, yeah, it's just these two or three little things. So not a big deal. All my nits were picked. Like, I'm just all of them. And I'll get into them later. I'm going to kind of pace it out and spread it out. But that's kind of where I'm at with this one. Well, you've got a thousand episodes of Star Trek. I mean, you have 60 years of Star Trek.

[00:30:39] This show has influenced so many stories and so many stories are now looping back around and influencing it. I do like his choice of newer sci-fi authors and the type of sci-fi that I write. I do like all those authors. I haven't read a bunch of Neil Stephenson, but I've read a lot of Martha Wells. I've read all of Andy Weir and previous guest of Open Bike Night, Andy Weir. Go back and listen to our interview from season two, I believe. Or don't. It's okay.

[00:31:09] Jesse. No, leave that in. I will. But it is one of those things like, you know, it's kind of like the Shakespeare thing. Like, yes, every type of story has already been told. And yeah, it's mishmashed together. I will also give it a lot of leeway because it is the first episode of the season. And it has a lot of heavy lifting to do to set up the season as well as tell the story it's telling. And personally, I think it's the best first episode of Strange New Worlds so far.

[00:31:40] Well, and that's the one thing I was going to ask, like not to be, you know, argumentative with you, Grayson, but like where would you personally rank this among the other opening episodes of a season? Because I've seen a lot of folks say they think this is the strongest of the four. So I'm, again, I'm not challenging you. I just am purely curious. Now, to your point about the crew reactions, I get that. And it's kind of like one of you, I think it was John mentioned, like this gets really

[00:32:09] heady, right? So like, do we want a 12 minute denouement of all of the characters like falling apart and then justifying it to themselves? And then, you know, really, well, I didn't give the order or like, you know what I mean? Like, do we want that rationalization from everybody? Or is it like we're told at the beginning that they need time off. They have finally been given time off after a 65 million year mission that was incredibly intense and very heavy. Right.

[00:32:38] So like I can see it from both sides. I could see wanting more from them and watching them kind of struggle with it, but I can also understand the choice to go give them their time off. Like, let's just give them drinks. And it's not to say that none of them will think about it anymore. You know, we just, we might not see that in a 10 episode season. Yeah. I mean, one response might be that, you know, Henry Alonzo Meyer said like, Hey, we don't want a mopey premiere. Like that's not the tone we want to set with the beginning of the season. And a hundred percent agree with that.

[00:33:07] So one response might be like, well, then why'd you deal with all this? Why'd you kill a trillion lives and two civilizations? And why are you having Pike deal with like running from his past and everything and, and all that. But I think, I mean, again, much like the, the moral conundrum, like it, I don't know, it all kind of made sense to me. Like it's too big. Like they can't wrap their heads around this. They're basically told like, look, it happened. Cause it had to happen. Like we kind of had no, no say in this. We were being pulled along by time. And yeah.

[00:33:36] So they're like, great, let's go drink. Cause I don't know. My brain cannot handle that any other way. And I kind of buy that reaction, honestly, for most of them. Two thoughts. Yes. I would take the 12 minute mopeyness at the end, Jesse, if it ended with Pelley walking in and being like, oh my God, yes, this has happened before. I remember this. This is how you did the right thing. Oh my, stop. Go get drinks. And they're like, oh, okay, sweet. But also, um, I kind of like, I like this episode a lot because it is a palate cleanser

[00:34:05] from what was the weirdest season of strange new worlds and a heavy ending to the, to the Battelle story. So did they need to do some ethnic cleansing with the palate cleansing? I guess so to tell the story. Right. But it, it felt, it feels like a mild reboot for it. It feels like the start. And like I said, the start of the second act of strange new worlds, the final act of strange new worlds. We are on a fresh footing now by starting humanity all over again.

[00:34:35] Pelley would absolutely give like a first time you've done that. Huh? Yeah, exactly. You'll get used to it. Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and hear from our good friend, Abby. Hey, hey, open Pike. Abby Summer from the First Flight Podcast. First of all, let's say this is my favorite season opener from all four seasons. Absolutely love it. And love the fact that we finally get Martians, even though Gene Roddenberry was steadfast, that we would never do that in Trek because it would make it too unrealistic.

[00:35:05] This was done perfectly. Love the theme variation for Pike's theme when they're riding on the horses in the beginning. Every version of this theme is amazing and really talks about where he is as a person. Could not love it more. Nami Melamond is a get for this franchise. I hope she continues for decades more. Speaking of a get for the franchise, Bernadette Croft and her team deserve every award. These costumes were TOS for the modern era in a respectful, not campy way. And they were gorgeous.

[00:35:35] We know how much I love a good costume. I also want to say I love the fact that the three ladies go on an adventure as an away team and they kick butt doing it. Didn't know how much that I loved La'Anne punching a dinosaur until I saw it. And I'm so excited that they're bringing up the augment thing again. Love that enterprise connection. So excited to see where it goes. And I think my favorite part of the episode was the end where we see Chris and Joseph grappling with the ethics of everything and the choice and the gray area and not knowing

[00:36:04] when he made that choice. This is the kind of Star Trek that I love. He'll be chewing on it for a while. And so will I hope this finds you well. And we'll talk soon. Again, this show is about Mbenga. So what a, what a great person to have on your ship when you've had to make an incredibly difficult history altering, morally questionable decision. Like you go to Mbenga and he's like, eh, you're not the only one who's done that. Like just, you'll be all right.

[00:36:32] I also want to say, I woke up on Thursday morning and we had our call from Abby in the email already. So congratulations. Absolutely. First for this season was Abby a hundred percent. I think it was before I went to work. So I, you know, there's, I'm sure a lot of like scientific issues with this episode. And, and, you know, we talked about some with the writers and I, most of them I don't care about, but at the end I was a little bit like, I don't know.

[00:37:00] We have a pretty good idea where the asteroid belt come from right now. We, uh, we have a pretty good idea of like how long Mars has not had, uh, an atmosphere in the Star Trek future. People live on Mars. How have they not found evidence of the civilization? It seemed a little hard to swallow that like in the Star Trek future, they wouldn't have known about any of this. Just speaking of options. I don't know. That was, that was the one part that I was like, I don't know. I don't disagree at all, but I also hadn't even considered that.

[00:37:30] Like it's okay. Yeah. Okay. It's okay. All right. All right. Star Trek for having a thousand episodes has indeed spent very little time on Mars. Like I think children of Mars might be the longest episode and it's a, it's a short track about Mars in all of Trek. I mean, all I've seen is Picard. The stuff. Yeah. The opening of Picard. It's like four years. It doesn't spend time on Mars.

[00:37:57] DS not like Mars is supremely neglected besides the utopia planitia shipyard. So I was like, okay, which who knows? Which I will say I'm glad about. I don't care about planets. I know. Like, don't give me Venus. Don't you know, this, that and the other thing. I want Mars. I know you are, but like for me, Star Trek is about other places that are much further away. Like I, maybe the time travel police have gone back and like have quarantined all the parts of Mars. Yeah.

[00:38:26] Completely believable. Maybe the Martians went back over the last 65 million years and sanitized the planet. Maybe Cam needs to freaking watch the expanse if he wants to watch stuff about Mars so much. I know. Maybe we need to listen to another caller. Here is Newman. Newman, the space hippie here from Movies for Days. This has got to be my favorite episode one of all of Strange New Worlds. Time loops, diplomacy games, prime directive crisis.

[00:38:54] Really inventive and creative scene transitions that stuck out in a very positive way. I love an episode where we have to defend the Federation ideals when the chips are down and it's difficult to do so. And I really love the thematic idea governing this episode. The hardest thing to do sometimes is nothing. Also, just great pike face throughout and everyone is super horny. I'm here for it. Specific details I'm all about. Ortegas and Scotty.

[00:39:23] I love where this is going and I'm eating my words because last season I was like, God, I'm tired of all the romance stuff. This is exciting. I love the bickering. Saffron Burroughs, performance and the Martian design. Costumes, makeup and the ship looking like a Star Fox 64 boss and I mean that in a good way. A happy and undaunted Mbenga. Oh my God, I've been waiting for that. Thank you. The alone moment where the Martian commander hears not alone but widower because of the inflection.

[00:39:52] I really love the ways in which that highlights how often what we express is less about what we say and more about how we say it. What a great way to start off the season. Very excited for what is to come. Newman the space would be out. Have we forgotten about hegemony part two people? Okay, more on that later. Sorry, but the best season opener ever. Clearly a near perfect episode. I do want to talk about the commander Kessel and that whole kind of middle part of the episode. My favorite part.

[00:40:21] I thought that was great and riveting. I thought like all of that moral kind of classic Star Trek diplomacy versus retribution stuff was really well done. She was a great foil to Pike. Other people have said all that. The widower thing was great. She was amazing. Like I didn't recognize her as Saffron Burroughs at first, but I was like that had to have been like a big guest star because she was so good. And yeah, I mean, I do want to say I loved all of that stuff.

[00:40:46] And I really like that to Trev's point about like the ideals and the rules, et cetera, of the Federation. It's like Pike is trying so hard to follow the rules and that ends up costing him, right? Like I cannot tell her about the future, but I would really like to help. So let me do what I can to help. And then it's like, she basically finds out like you have been keeping 90% of what's going on here from me.

[00:41:14] And so I feel perfectly justified to just steal your antimatter. Like that was a good use of that. I think because otherwise she has to just decide. I don't care about any of the stuff you just showed me. Right. Like, cause she, she is clearly open to this idea eventually. Like she gets there. And I love that because it's not a one note guest star alien of the week character. She's a complete person.

[00:41:42] And she's like, well, I would say no, but I did study medicine. So I'm interested to see this thing about you. And you know, like, oh, Hey, don't get it twisted. We're completely in charge here. We have your ship. Like she has great character moments and she's in three quarters of an episode. Like this is a very well-written guest spot. And I'm really glad they got saffron bros for this. Cause she crushed it.

[00:42:06] Well-performed too, because yeah, there's, there's heavy drama in both of their stories. While at the same time, completely unstated. These two want to be all up in each other's business. Like, yeah, Pike is morning, but at the same time he is like elevator eyeing her anytime. She's not like, that's why she was surprised when he said widow work. She's like, yeah, I was under the impression we'd been flirting for 20 minutes because they

[00:42:33] have been, and it's, it is beautifully done because it is so subtle, but it's like, you know, it was there. A different episode would have, he would have been Kirk all over this episode. If only his plans hadn't been foiled by an onscreen clock widget, he would have gotten some that episode. Yep. That was, I, I, did it bother you guys at all? It felt a little weird to me. And I know that they were, you know, in this day and age of television, like audiences are so smart. You basically have to lie to the audience to kind of do a rug pull.

[00:43:03] And we know that the writers kind of wanted us to feel like Pike when she, that he's gotten through to her and then all of a sudden, no, she's stealing stuff. And I bumped a little bit because I was like, we didn't even see her in engineering. How does she know about this stuff? I would have liked maybe a little scene where she asked a question about the antimatter or, and I don't know, did we need a scene where like, you know, as he's leaving, one of her guards is like, Oh, come look at this computer. It just, it felt like it came out of nowhere. It felt a little bit like a cheat to me. But again, maybe that's what audiences need these days to, to be taken by surprise.

[00:43:32] I think for me, it's like, it just fits because she doesn't trust anyone who's not Martian, right? Like she is very xenophobic and in her eyes has lots of justification to be that way. So for me, it, it fits because she is guarded and cautious the entire time. Like even when she is starting to like, except, except some of what she's being told, it's like, okay, she's, but she's still who she is, right?

[00:44:00] She still came into this with a particular mindset. And I think for me, it's the scene with Sam, which by the way, I love that basically everybody got something to do in this episode, right? I guess they must've lost these records. Otherwise Burnham and her crew would have gone. Actually, we already know how to talk through smell because the enterprise did it like a thousand years ago. But the, I think it works because of her mindset going in.

[00:44:26] Like for me, there was no, I didn't feel like lied to, I guess, to use your terminology, Cam. It was like, yeah, she wouldn't just accept these things. Well, I guess my problem is when he leaves, I feel like she was being honest, like, okay, let's do your thing. It's not that she was lying to him. And then we found out later that she was lying to him. What happened is off screen, she made discoveries. And that's, I guess that's where I feel like, hmm. But she gave him, like, for me, the reason that it holds together is because he said,

[00:44:55] like, wouldn't that be worth considering however briefly? And she goes, yeah, briefly. Like. Well, she says, like, let's go down that road. I'll follow you down that road a little bit. Right. But she, I think she made it very clear. Like, I'm not just going to do whatever you say because it has some merit to it. Right. I can, I can look past it because she instantly focuses on weapons. Yeah. And so the first thing that cat that gets her to actually consider coming aboard is a mention of weapons.

[00:45:22] And, uh, and then they open an invitation from Pike in his panic, which I still love. I think is a great piece of humor. Like, God damn it. Yeah. And I haven't seen weapons. Do you guys think that would get her to come over if he's like, do you want to watch weapons with me? He does like old movies. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, for me weapons, like the last five minutes is when I'm like, okay. All right. I'm fully on board with this movie now. Like great buildup and, but the fantastic ending.

[00:45:50] What if she had shown up and she's like, oh, you, you said weapons, but your universal translator made it say gun show. I was here for your gun show. Is that still on the table? Captain, I'm surprised you're wearing a shirt. All right. Let's go ahead and, uh, hear, let's hear from our German contention. First up here is Melanie. Hi guys. Here's Melanie with my thoughts on Valis Marineris.

[00:46:16] So after season three, which honestly I enjoyed a lot, Valis Marineris felt like such a refreshing return to what I personally love most about Star Trek. It gives us a genuinely strange new role, some fantastic science fiction ideas, and yes, dinosaurs. And can we talk about Chris Pike for a second or two? I absolutely loved him in this episode. First on the horse, riding in full cowboy gear. Well, I loved it. Please. I would have loved to see more of it. Well, the episode only lasts for an hour or so, but you could give me cowboy Pike for a full episode and I still wanted more.

[00:46:46] You can tell he's still carrying so much grief and it feels like he's throwing himself from one mission into the next because standing still would mean facing everything he's lost and everything he knows is still coming. I loved Una with Chris here. This is the Una I love. Then there's one quiet moment where the Martian commander calls my widower while offering her condolences and Anson says almost nothing, but his expression says absolutely everything. It's such a beautiful, understated performance. I also loved seeing the crew together again.

[00:47:15] They feel completely settled into the roles now and more than ever they feel like a real family. The chemistry is effortless and it's just a joy to spend time with them. I mean, Scotty and Ortegas, Lan and Spock, Pelia, Joseph, they all have their moments. For me, this is a fantastic way to open season four. It has the adventure, the heart, the humor, and the thoughtful moral questions that we love in Star Trek. If this premiere is an indication of what's still to come, then we're in for a really special season. That's long and prosper. Now, that's a good point.

[00:47:45] If there was one episode that I wasn't going to love, I'm kind of glad it was the premiere because at the same time, I'm still, as many of these little problems I had, like, I just loved seeing our crew back together again. I loved being on the Enterprise again after a year. Like, these actors know these characters so well and the shots are so great. And yeah, I mean, it's just fun being back regardless.

[00:48:06] And I love the, like, deep cut through line of Scotty being very awkward around women. Like, that happens in TOS, okay? I'll just put it that way. Mm-hmm. But, like, his face when La'an says he just wanted to see me in my outfit, didn't you? Oh, my God. I was like, this is how it would be if people at your work were this open about what's going on. Yeah. You would be like, I'm just here to move the sliders, okay?

[00:48:35] Like, I didn't really need to hear that. Like, that scene is a perfect encapsulation of what Melanie is talking about, which is the chemistry and how comfortable everybody feels in their roles. Because it felt completely real and natural. There was no, like, oh, Scotty has an issue with this? It's like, of course he does. He's awkward and weird. Like, he's an engineer. Like, this is not part of what he is here to do. He's here to work on computers.

[00:49:03] And, you know, I mean, this goes to what we were talking about in our season two and three, you know, review coverage, where we never really got to see Spock and Chapel be together. Like, they hooked up, and then they immediately started having issues. And just, like, seeing Spock and La'an just like, yeah, they're flirting. They're banging. Yep. This is life for them. Great! More of this, please. Yes. Yeah. And the point about the costumes that Abby brought up. Oh. Like, yeah. Those are the coolest cowboys I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of cowboys on film.

[00:49:31] Like, the duster works for me. The hats work for me. Like, I... It's a little weird that she's like, my boots are hard to take off. Like, that's just an excuse. Because... Oh, yeah. No, they're not. But, yeah, the costumes were gorgeous all the way through. And I love the Martian costumes, too, because they feel Martian. Like, they feel old-school Martian, but they're not... You know, it's not single-color jumpsuit. But it's like, oh, yeah, it's like a fun 60s kind of costume.

[00:50:01] And it totally works. And I love her point about, yeah, this crew is this crew now. Yeah. And you can feel it so much stronger in this season, just in this one episode than any of the seasons before. And that, I think, is part of why this is my feel-good episode of Strange New World so far. I mean, yeah, trillions die, but I'm still smiling. John has very specific tastes, okay? Yeah.

[00:50:32] The moment where Scotty overhears Erica making fun of his accent, I'm like, this is effortless. Like, this is realistic. This is totally how it would be. I love that. And it's just... I think another interesting thing I'm hearing is that a lot of our callers who tend to have more knits to pick are ending up on the side of this is their favorite season opener. Which I think is really interesting.

[00:51:00] After we watched this the first time, I was like, there are going to be some people that this really does not jive with. And that's absolutely happened. But I think it's interesting to hear from the folks that it did work for and the folks that it didn't work for. And that's what I love about Open Pike Night. So thank you for calling in. Yeah. And let's go ahead and hear from Michi. Hi, guys. It's Michi. The beginning of the episode was actually a bit mean. I was so looking forward to a Firefly-style space fest done. And I'm sure Ansem would have loved it.

[00:51:28] The costumes were magnificent. And it's incredible how much work and love they put into every single detail. I love the landing party. In my opinion, one of the best landing party teams in the whole show. They have such great chemistry together. And I love how they tried so hard not to hurt a single T-Rex when later that day they are indirectly responsible for their extinction. It was so much fun to watch.

[00:51:54] And Laan punching the dinosaur and everyone's reaction to it was pure gold. And I love Pike in this episode. His reaction of burying himself in work to avoid thinking about the loss of Marie is exactly what I expected from him. And then when Castel drops the word widower, you see his facade crumble. I just wanted to jump into my TV and give him a big hug. If the episodes unfold, you can see that the crew has become a family.

[00:52:23] And just how much they trust Pike. Even as they were shocked about his order not to save the planet, they trusted him and followed him. This whole episode is so full of scenes of friendship. And I really loved watching that. It might even be one of my favorite episodes of all. That's it for me. Have a great day. So the away team brings up something that I'm very excited to talk about, which is the way that Laan and Erica interact on this away team.

[00:52:52] Because pretty quickly, Laan is like, let's shoot. And it's like, hey, these are not actually Gorn, okay? They're just reptilians. Relax. Your bias is showing. And Erica has this, they have the moment at the crashed Doldrum ship. Where Laan's like, hey, whatever, as long as we get to live, like, you know, we got to do what we got to do. And Erica's showing some serious compassion here.

[00:53:19] Like, hey, these are travelers who were far away from where they come from. They just wanted to live. And that is understandable. And that is an acceptable goal. Great continuation of what we got from Terrarium. Because it's like, yeah, absolutely that changed how Erica views things. Like, she's been through war and has had to, you know, consider this whole species is my enemy. And now she's come around to the other side of that of, like, people are people, man.

[00:53:47] Like, there are gray areas, right? But people are people and it's understandable that they just want to live. And I maybe feel ways about that. And Laan is one of the people who should be so open to that. And she isn't, right? It's a great juxtaposition of these two characters. Because you really hope for Laan that eventually she will get over some of that bias. Especially as someone who has dealt with it her whole life. But it's like, she's not ready yet.

[00:54:17] And this goes back to what we talked about in Terrarium, which is, like, it has to be at a person's own pace. Growth is not going to be foisted upon you. Change is not going to happen because somebody told you to change. You have to want it. So I'm wondering if at some point this season we'll start to get there with Laan. Especially with the hint here that she's like, hey, maybe I'm afraid of who I am. And I think Mbenga's reaction to it is good. Because he's kind of like, what, are you going to take over the galaxy now?

[00:54:45] And it's like, it's him saying, hey, that's not who you are. Like, we know that's not who you are. But she is not super sure about that. So it kind of reads, it's almost like he's being too light with it. But it's like, no, that's his vote of confidence in you. Like, so excellent point about chemistry and dynamics. Mishi, I agree completely. Very excited for folks to watch how the chemistry evolves this season.

[00:55:11] Do you think this whole conflict between the Martians and the Doldrn started? Because is Earth like a protected hunting reserve for the Martians and the Doldrn want to move in and settle? Like, why is there a whole class M planet in the solar system and two other species who could live there and Earth is not settled yet? It's further away. I can see atmospheric issues. I mean, which again, if you're going to say, oh, the science isn't right.

[00:55:38] It's like, yeah, Ortega should have had a real hard time breathing down there. The other two, fine, they're augmented. They're all right. But yeah, but Ortega should have been like, I was thinking about that. Like, why would one be a shipy crashed there? Were they trying to settle Earth? And like, they should have settled Earth. Like first thing after they got into space, these guys are like flying around with a hyper advanced technology. And they're just letting this planet sit there unoccupied. Yeah. Maybe it's too hot. Maybe it's too close to the sun. I don't know.

[00:56:07] I mean, two planets away. Goldilocks zone for them is different. I think they hunt dinosaurs like they're a predator species. Yeah. Could have been. Maybe. I'm just amazed that we have glossed over completely the fact that Una was also in that landing party. We get more Una in this episode than it feels like we got in all of season three.

[00:56:28] Like, not only in the landing party, but in her conversation at the end with Pike and being like, hey, are you gonna stop the mass genocide we're about to see? And then no. It was just really nice to see Una having fun. Being number one, shooting a dinosaur in the mouth. Well, and I like that she is kind of rewarded for what we know is a number one's job, which is to stand up to the captain, offer alternatives and question the choice. Right.

[00:56:56] Like she gets promoted and it's like, that's Pike saying like, hey, way to go, man. Like I was not sure. And it was good of you to ask. Yeah. And like you, you should continue to do that. Keep being the officer you are. I'm still mad at her for how she treated Ortega. Oh my God. Get over it. I'm softening. I'm softening. You've forgiven La'an more than you've forgiven Una. I wouldn't go that far. Honestly, especially if I didn't know it was right.

[00:57:23] Like La'an is, La'an is having prejudice issues, which is not becoming of a Starfleet officer, but I'm excited to see the story they tell with it. And honestly, you accusing somebody of having prejudice. Go on, go on. I'm, I'm not saying that I'm unbiased. I have never said that. You are a podcaster after all. Actually, exactly. And it doesn't matter if she was right, Cameron, which a, she wasn't. And B, that's Ortegas. Get off.

[00:57:50] So, but I do like that she gets this moment here where it's like, you know what? Instead of me accepting this promotion, I'm going to promote you because you did the right thing. And it does help me get past my issues with how she was because it's like, my whole thing was like, Pike wouldn't have done that. And now this is Pike going, you're right. I wouldn't have. But that doesn't mean that the way that I did it was the only right way to do it. So I want to acknowledge that you're promoted. Congratulations. Go have a drink. I really like that. And I think you're totally right, John.

[00:58:18] I'm like, since probably Ad Astra, this is the most we've gotten from her. And it's like scenes that matter, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from Izzy. Hi, Open Pike. It's Izzy calling in because I think I'm starting to annoy everyone around me with how much I talk about Star Trek. So I got to let out my opinion somehow. I just want to say, like, I really liked this episode.

[00:58:44] I'm just prefacing with that because my first few points are going to make it sound like I hated this episode, but I didn't. But the first thing is, though, there was like two minutes max of horses. I feel like they hyped it up too much in the trailer to only have two minutes of horses. I expected more. Next thing is, I really like the La'Anne and Spock relationship. I think it's good for both their characters. I think they're getting a little out of control.

[00:59:08] It felt very unprofessional in the transporter room or whatever. All I was thinking during that scene was that Janeway would not have tolerated that the way Pike did. But anyway, I still support. Also, I think there were maybe too many dinosaurs at the end, but that's just personal opinion. I think that might be kind of controversial. Yeah. Okay. The good things, though, I love the storyline.

[00:59:34] Commander Cassell was, like, super cool, and she reminded me of the Romulan from Quality of Mercy. So that was fun. Really liked that episode. And also, I saw a lot of hate for the spinning effect at the start. I think people are lacking whimsy and fun when they hate on that. Anyway, bye. I will tell you that for me personally, I'm just lacking constitution, and it makes me, like, motion sick. That's all it is for me.

[01:00:03] I'm like, okay, this is actually hurting my head. But I understand the use of it as a storytelling. When Chris Fisher steps on the set, does he have, like, a magic key? And he opens this box and pulls out the spinning lens? Like, because he's the only one who uses it. Yep. And I thought he used it in Great Hegemony Part 2, again, in a near-perfect episode. 90% there this time, Chris. Like, I dug it. I was digging it. It got better. As it was going on in each character. We're spinning. We're spinning. We're spinning. Static shot on the view screen.

[01:00:32] And then it cuts to the character, and it finishes spinning. I'm like, what? You were right there. It was almost there. Why is there that static shot in the middle? Anyway, that was a nitpick. I just have to say, because I did listen to these calls earlier when I was trimming them down. Don't worry, Izzy. If there were too many dinosaurs at the end, no. They took care of that. That asteroid took care of them. Not anymore. Yeah, not anymore. But I do. I like. Again, this is going to be a running theme.

[01:01:01] I love that our callers are like, here, you know, don't take this the wrong way. Here are my nitpicks. It's like, this is such a classic Star Trek fan conversation, right? Like, nobody except maybe me is going to come in and be like, everything is perfect every week. It doesn't matter. Everything's fine. Everybody is going to have little things that they have to point out. And I love that. And I love that there are always different things. Like, it works so well. And I have. I've seen online both versions of it.

[01:01:31] Like, yeah, love the dinosaurs. Give me more dinosaurs. You know what I haven't heard is, I think that was enough. Enough horseback riding. Nobody is satisfied with the amount of horseback riding. And I think everybody could use a little bit more of it. Never trust the trailer. Also, Pike has no legs to stand on when it comes to fraternization. All of season three was him and his fraternization. His situationship becoming a real situation. They almost started a war with Klingons because of that. Yeah, exactly.

[01:01:57] Well, and what is it with Pike and women who will force him into a catastrophic ethical dilemma? Like, it happened here. It happened on the Omelus planet. Like, this guy. Like, I think Mbenga can't catch a break. Pike cannot catch a break. Maybe that's why they're such good friends. All right. Well, I think Jesse gave me permission to run through my list of nitpicks then. Most of my problems with this episode is the dinosaur subplot. And I'll get to why I think that might be. But let me just hit my little nitpicks real quick.

[01:02:27] So, I love the Scotty-Ortegas bickering. I don't know why Una and Laan join in on that. Like, that felt weird to me that they started making fun of the laddy-lassy stuff. That was kind of clunky. Pretty clunky exposition about the disruptor that I don't think we needed. Like, if Laan just started disrupting trees, I wouldn't have questioned it. If she just shot it with the phaser and they fell over, I wouldn't have questioned it. Why do we have this really weird exposition dialogue about the disruptor all of a sudden? Okay. So, Una says, I have a plan.

[01:02:56] I don't think you're going to like it. Shooting the dinosaur in the mouth with the phaser is not a plan. That's just the first thing you try. You didn't even, like, have Erica go out there as bait, which would have been a really fun scene. Do something like that. Like, let's see a plan. They pull out the phaser three times. Everything they do involves the phaser. Okay. So, they lose contact with Scotty. And he's like, I got to go. And they can't get a hold of him. I'm like, yeah, because they're caught by the Martians up there. Okay. They're all alone down on the planet. And then a couple scenes later, they're like, so Scotty said this. What? When did you get back in touch with Scotty? Yep. Are the Martians curious about this landing party?

[01:03:26] What's going on here? Just have them separated. Like, they never needed information from the Enterprise. Just have them lose contact with it until the very end when they're let free. Okay. We talked. Someone else mentioned it, but like, we can't kill the dinosaurs. Butterfly effect situation. But we can knock down these trees and, like, knock out the dinosaur. That's just as likely to cause the butterfly effect as killing the dinosaur. I would have liked a little scene where they actually talked about what the temporal, like, policy is in the situation. They must have it.

[01:03:52] I love when, like, Star Trek gets into, like, you know, we have things about time travel because it happens all the time. Okay. They really have to get past this T-Rex. It sure looked like they could just sneak around it. I mean, she even has to wave down their T-Rex twice to get its attention. Just sneak past the ADHD T-Rex. It's busy chasing pterodactyls. You don't need to kill it or shoot it. Just sneak around it. The whole, and then, like, it whipped its tail and she dropped the phaser. That was all, like, some clunky busy work just to do with it.

[01:04:20] They act like Una got eaten. And then there's this great death-proof moment where she pops up and goes, nope, I'm okay. Love that moment. Except we clearly saw her jump under the dinosaur. We know she's okay. You got to put us in the same mind frame as the characters who are going, did she just get eaten? And then jumping to the doldren pod, like, it jumps up as a jump scare. And La'Anne says, they're all dead, right? As an audience member, that tells me they're not all dead. Something's going to happen with these doldren. Nope. Why did it jump?

[01:04:49] Why was it alive in the stasis pod? I don't know. Insects, man. Insects. Insects have a thing that it's, yeah, like, they do the- So none of these are, like, real flaws. It's not reflexes, but it's- But it just felt like every scene on the planet. It was, like, pulling me out, pulling me out, pulling me out. Here's my one complaint about the away party. Why did Erica run to pick up Una's phaser and throw it to her? She's holding a phaser.

[01:05:19] Like, just toss her your phaser. Because Una didn't tell her the plan and tell her what setting to have it on. That's true. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. She did say, I'm going to lure it over, shoot it in soft palette, and then- And she said on stun. Yeah. And then I'm going to, like- Yeah, she did. So, like, either Erica steps in and makes the shot, or she just throws her her own phaser. Like, I don't think she needs to do that. Unless, as she's running over to it, she goes, can't leave that there for temporal prime directive reasons, and then throws it to Una. She's read timeline, too.

[01:05:49] Anyway. Yeah. I have some bigger- Go ahead. How does Una know this dinosaur is a female? Like- Yeah. How does she know that? Like, is she so read up on dinosaur biology? That's where she landed. She's like, man, if that thing had balls, I would be dead right now. But luckily- That's how I know. That would be a good lie. Because, you know, we all know lizards, reptiles, birds, birds, big old balls. Anyways, I think all those little things-

[01:06:13] I do have some medium and bigger complaints about it that I think illustrates where all those came from, but I'll save that for another. Those are my two things where I was like- I'll take them. This is weird. I'll take them. My biggest complaint about this episode is that Doldern sounds like Goldern, so I'm like, all these Goldern aliens, you know? And by the end, half the actors are saying Doldrum. They are Doldrum, aren't they? That's what Henry called them. Yeah, he said it wrong. It is Doldrum. Well, who says it wrong?

[01:06:43] The subtitles or the showrunner? The showrunner. And eventually some of the actors. Like, it is written Doldrum. Like, it's very specific. Like, it's clear they pulled that from Doldrum, right? Like, there's even an apostrophe and everything. But it's like, then call them that or don't. Like, it is an absolute mugato gamato situation. Yeah. Yep. Well, wait. It is an M at the end, right? No, it's an N at the end. Doldrum. I think it's an M. All right. Oh, is it?

[01:07:12] Do we need to open for the first time ever? No, we have like seven more calls to get through. Okay, and I have to go to bed soon. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Valerie. Hey, Open Pike Knight. This is Val. Looking at the first episode of the season, there are a ton of pulses. I mean, dinosaurs. How can you really go wrong with that? Plus, I love how well they managed to set up all the different character kind of storylines that we know will go through the season without overwhelming the plot of the episode. But I struggled with some of the science this time.

[01:07:41] You know, in Star Trek, you always have to take the science with a grain of salt. But there are times when they try to justify the science, and it just doesn't work. I mean, it doesn't make any sense that the fifth planet would be there. The gravitational influence of Jupiter is what caused there to be an asteroid belt and not a full planet in the first place. But if we're going to go with explaining the science, then my biggest issue is with the iridium they were searching for. Now, as you probably know, iridium is the element that we find in a layer all over the Earth

[01:08:09] that shows that an asteroid contributed to the extinction of the dinosaurs. If the asteroid was a piece of this fifth planet, then they feel like they could have done more to tie the iridium back to the planet rather than having it be just some fuel component in a random ship of theirs. They could have at least reminded the audience of the connection between iridium and the extinction of the dinosaurs. Now, does any of that make me dislike the episode? No. But from a science side, this time, they could have done better.

[01:08:39] So, maybe it's just me, but I feel like having the Doldrum ship powered by an iridium fuel cell, does that work that you were talking about of like, the asteroid is rich in that? And so, of course, would their technology then be rich in that? But, I mean, it was pretty quick. It was just like, oh, they've got it and it's right here. You know, so I can see where you're coming from with that.

[01:09:04] And, yeah, I mean, that is a thing that will happen where you'll be like, that is not how science works. And to that point, that is absolutely what Alan McElroy was told by science advisor, Dr. Aaron. And he kind of just went with it anyway. So, like, there are absolutely two sides to that story. And I admire both sides. I really like, Henry pointed out, like, Aaron was getting upset

[01:09:31] because even a person who comes at this from a science background is going to bring emotion to it. And she's like, please, if you are going to ask me, just do the thing. And I also like that Alan was like, I don't want to. It's fun to do this and I'm going to do this. So, like, I love that people are picking up on this. And I think it obviously, it speaks to just kind of the general intelligence of the Star Trek fan base, right?

[01:09:56] Like, people become inspired by shows like Star Trek in particular to become actual scientists. And I think it's great that eventually you get to a point where you're like, well, the thing that inspired me is not always great at the thing that I have been inspired to do. So, I actually like this as a complaint and I'm not going to disagree with it at all. And they have matter transporters in warp. I mean, come on. Like, I get it.

[01:10:23] Like, if we're going to try and do a lot of hard science in Star Trek, it's going to be a really boring show. Yeah, it's going to be Enterprise. I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. Oh. I know that's not what's happening there. I just couldn't help myself. I'll watch it. I promise. I'll get through it. John is so mad right now. Jeffrey Combs. All the great Jeffrey Combs. So much Jeffrey Combs. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from our good friend, Michelle. He's in DS9, too. Hey, open Pike night.

[01:10:52] I was very much entertained by this season premiere. And while there were some issues that I had, overall, I very much enjoyed it. I was a bit conflicted overall by the plot. In one sense, yes, you have to save humanity. But in another sense, the bug people, we barely knew them. And they obviously had intellect because they created technology we can't even create now. So did we just fail in communicating or diplomacy? Or did they just not care and want to wipe us out? So this is what happened.

[01:11:21] Anson Mount was phenomenal in conveying his emotions, not just in trying to move forward following the loss of Patel, but also dealing with this prime directive situation. And that kind of leads to my crusher connection because she was always willing to thwart the prime directive to save lives. So I think it would have been interesting to see her take on Pike's decision here. Props to the special effects department for, yes, dinosaurs in Star Trek.

[01:11:51] It looked amazing. La'Anne, Una, and Ortegas. That away team was fire. Loved it. I did have a issue with the book that this episode hinges on, A Princess of Mars. The author is a known lifelong proponent of eugenics. And that is a red flag to me. Now you can find issues with pretty much anyone if you want to pick them apart. But eugenics is a red line for me.

[01:12:18] I think they should have at least addressed that if they're going to say that Pike's dad really loved his books. Thank you for your writer and director interviews. They were great. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Live long and prosper. I do think it's interesting that Henry implied that the doldrum are coming back in some way or that like the implications of that are coming back in some way. It sounds like we might not have heard the end of this story, which I think, you know, I'll have to reappraise the end a little bit if it does come back some.

[01:12:49] Well, if the Martian DNA exists in species we know now, which is stated outright in the episode, I think it would make sense for that to have happened with the doldrum as well. Right. Like, and they're, I mean, as Sam mentions, like, yeah, we run into insectoid species all the time. Like, so I think it's absolutely possible that somebody is going to hold a hundred million year grudge against Pike.

[01:13:16] Like, but I think it was set up subtle enough to where I'm not sitting here going like, oh, okay, doldrum are going to be back. Right. Right. Yeah. A big thing about it. Right. Right. Um, but yeah, I do. I mean, the princess of Mars thing is there. Like, there's no way around that being there. Uh, I think for me, it matters that nobody was like, oh yeah. And like the author of that book really agree with him on stuff. You know what I mean? Like there was no. Yeah.

[01:13:45] I mean, they don't even say his name. Endorsement of it. They don't even say his name. Yeah. They don't, they don't mention the author by name either. And I will also say like, I know Michelle said, well-known eugenicist. I didn't know that. I like, I didn't know that until after the trailer came out and then someone on blue sky mentioned it. I was like, oh, I didn't know that about Burroughs. All I noticed he wrote Tarzan and princess of Mars. But also, I mean, a lot of authors from that era, you're not necessarily surprised to find that out. Right. Like H.P. Lovecraft certainly has some problematic news. Yeah. Right.

[01:14:15] Yeah. So I think it's fair to have red lines though. I want that to be clear. I'm not saying get over it, Michelle. I'm saying I absolutely hear you. And I think if they're going to include that and if it was an influential story for the writer or anybody on the staff, I could understand why they included it. So I absolutely hear where you're coming from. I will also give them. I mean, yeah, it's, it's really popular these days to like try and have the best messaging possible.

[01:14:44] I would say Star Trek goes down in history as possibly the most anti-eugenics show ever. I mean, they have dealt with specifically eugenics wars. Like Star Trek has addressed eugenics more than Edgar Rice Burroughs probably ever did. And I don't know. I think, yeah, there's only so many books about people living on Mars.

[01:15:12] Well, and it's also, it's also possible that that part of that choice is like, hey, like this, these are muddy waters for Pike, right? Like he thinks he's doing the right thing, but it's this incredible cost here. And it is a literal genocide. So like, it could be that that is a nod to like, hey, look, things are going to get blurry and difficult and you're not always going to be 100% on the right side of things.

[01:15:36] And I'm, you know, I, I think they didn't spend more time on it probably to avoid that conversation, but I think it's absolutely worth having the conversation. And I don't, like I said, I don't disagree with you, Michelle, and I'm never going to begrudge anybody their red line. Everybody's got to have one. Mine is when you mistreat Ortegas. I thought I was going to make it hot dogs. Well, I mean, I think that should be everyone's red line. Like if there's a thing I'm going to write a whole sci-fi show about, it's that. Your red line is the line of ketchup down the hot dog. Of ketchup, yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:05] It's right next to a squiggly yellow line. But I will say firmly open pike night is against eugenics. Like, like, yeah. Wow. I thought you were going to say against condiments and I was going to have a fight. Like, no, yes, John is correct. Even though this is John's favorite episode. That's not why. All right. Let's go ahead. And actually, we had a write in this time from a previous caller. Lucy wrote in and said, Hey guys.

[01:16:35] Great to be back.

[01:17:05] I was listening in the background. Thank you, Lucy. Like a lot of, a lot of points we discussed there, but man.

[01:17:32] No, a lot of people have brought up this widower moment. And I think rightfully so. Cause that like, I mean, that hits you in the freaking gut, but it also presents an opportunity to discuss the universal translator. Like this is maybe the most insight we've ever had as to what it actually does. Right. Like you always just hear it mentioned or like, Oh, well it doesn't work or, Oh, it kind of works, but they're speaking in metaphor.

[01:18:01] So it's not perfect. Right. So like, I love that we get to find out. Yeah. The translator is making choices based on intonation and context and all of this stuff. And to have it explicitly mentioned, I think is ballsy because this is, this is a flux capacitor of star Trek, right? Like you're not supposed to explain this. Yeah. Just accept that it's there. And Alan chose like, no, we're, we're going to do this.

[01:18:30] We're going to have this moment that revolves specifically around this. And it actually fixes a lot of other things because it's like, would these people be calling this place Mars? Is that what, like, is that what the Martians named it? Like, is that what Cassell knows her planet is? Like, Oh yeah, we're from Mars. Or is the computer saying. Well, I mean, she calls Valles Marineris by Valles Marineris. I love that point. Yeah. So that means that the computer is going, we're going to translate her word for that into your word for that.

[01:19:00] Just so you have a frame of reference. Right. Yeah. Because you have always wondered that, like, why would these people say like, Oh yeah, down on Iridia three, we do this. It's like, well, they wouldn't call it that they'd call it whatever their name for their home planet is. So like, I think that bringing up the translator actually fixes some stuff here that otherwise you might be like, wait, why, what, what is this? What's going on? Like, and it makes me wonder, are these aliens called the doldrum because they are like the

[01:19:29] doldrums for these people on Mars, right? Like, is this their, their great pain, their great adversary. And that makes them sad. And they have this, this history of pain with them. Like I, I am actually so glad that this translator moment came up. And I'm so mad at Tim Burton. I did not realize that he has background music in every scene of Mars attacks.

[01:19:55] Cause I was looking for just the ak, ak sound effect for me to put over Pike talking and her speaking in English. There is he, that movie has music behind every goddamn scene. Oh, and then sound effects. My God damn Tim Burton. You couldn't just give us a clean reading of ak, ak. So is this another like podcast wide stance that we have that Tim Burton is overrated? All right, John. Well, I'm just, when you've got, uh, well, when you've got Danny Elfman at your disposal, yeah. Have him score every single second of your movie.

[01:20:25] For sure. Yeah. Yeah. A good portion of Tim Burton is overrated. All right. Let's go ahead and hear from another caller. Here is K. Sarasara. Greetings, open Pike night. K. Sarasara here. We're back with season four. Just two observations. One, I would really love a friend like M. Banga. Yes.

[01:20:49] He just seems to know instinctively when someone needs a presence, a comfort, or just a few kind words. That's so awesome. Um, second, I swear that if Spock or Pike or even Una has to put down La'on like old Yeller because she's foaming at the mouth and rabid from augment genes at the end of this

[01:21:19] season, I'm gonna kind of scream. Only the cats will hear, but I will still scream. Um, so yeah, happy, happy season four folks. Everyone have a good one. Maybe it'll be more of a red Fern grows and she has, he has to put down La'on and Una. They're both John, uh, enhance rabid. What an image. Yeah.

[01:21:43] I know sometimes these writers like to twist the emotional knife, but I have to believe partially for my own sanity that even they would not be so cruel. I, I, I believe that I have my theory of how La'on will eventually exit the show. I don't know if I think that will be this season or, you know, some end of season or early next season, but I think there's a way for them to get her out of their show that will keep people happy and are not going to break any hearts.

[01:22:14] But I don't know. I mean, part of the reason the hearts would be broken is because we love this character. Now I look back to season one and I very explicitly said, like, I don't know if we need this character. I don't trust her. I don't, you know, I'm not sure how to feel. And as the seasons have gone on, it's like, Oh, actually this is a great character. She's performing the hell out of it. I do have, you know, qualms with her in universe, uh, motivations for things and how she seems

[01:22:43] to really be acting on bias a lot. But I think that's on purpose. They want us to feel that way and they want this character to go on a journey, so to speak. Uh, but yeah, I, I'm right there with you. Like if they make Pike do it, that would be awful. And I, I really don't think they will do that. Okay. Do we think it'll be like old yeller or like I am legend or like Harry and the Hendersons? Go get it.

[01:23:12] I don't want you anymore. She's just trying to get on the ship and they're just throwing rocks at her. And for some reason she can't talk anymore. She's like. Oh, the little Bruna has a chase after her for some reason. Yeah. They're taking us chases after Bruna. No, no, Bruna, you can stay. Bruna can stay. That's right. But I do agree. K.

[01:23:42] Sarah, I'm thinking we're back. Yeah. Let's go ahead and hear from our caller. Uh, Edwinus. Hello, OpenPikeKnight. This is Edwinus Prime from the Discord with my thoughts on Strange New World Season 4 premiere. I loved it. It was a rich, tight tapestry weaving together ideas from different ages of sci-fi, character threads from across the show's seasons, all into an episode that was a fantastic, fast-paced, yet thought-provoking romp that left lots of room for later reflection.

[01:24:10] On the sci-fi history side, I love that the writers tied together pulp ideas like lost Martian civilizations, bug-eyed aliens, humans roaming with dinosaurs, and time travel with later ideas like Trek's first contacts, prime directive, hopeful better-together ethos, and moral quandaries, even if they didn't slow down to consider those very deeply here. And Ortegas is now comfortable on away team missions. Plus, they gave us a layered look at how Pike has progressed.

[01:24:38] In the series premiere, he rode alone to hide from his future, and he saw that future burned self reflected in his captain's chair arm. In this episode, he rides with friends for the fun of the moment, and after the team debrief, we linger on his reflection on the ready room's table, just him, as he is, right now. Even that moment with the Martian widower translation was brilliant. It was another thread that showed Pike still feels Patel's loss.

[01:25:05] He's learning to live with that, too, and it adds a layer to that table reflection. So much more to this episode, but those are the highlights I could cram in. Thanks so much for a great podcast. Live long and prosper. I like that a lot, the comparison of Pike alone at the beginning to Pike with his friends here. That's nice. Yeah, way to out-film critic any of us, man, or film analyze.

[01:25:29] And this show has a visual language, and Pike in reflection is embedded in that visual language, and that is a great point of just how well they used it in this episode. Yeah, and I mean, if you think Janeway hates time travel, like, Pike hates time travel. Like, Pike and Janeway could have a few drinks and talk about this for a long time.

[01:25:55] But yeah, I really like, as was mentioned, how you tied the writing together, because that used to be just a Pike thing. Like, that was his escape. That was, you know, something that he would only do alone, and really resisted even coming back to Starfleet. And it's like, here he's sharing it with, you know, people that have helped get him through all of those things. And I think it's really important to note Mbenga is down on the planet for that.

[01:26:22] Like, we know that they have a complicated, very strong friendship. So it makes great sense. And obviously it was a medical away mission, so they brought Mbenga. But like, just to have him there, you know, finally letting him in, I think is a really good point. And I'm now kind of upset that there was no reflection of Pike's face in a puddle shaped like a T-Rex footprint. But I think I'll eventually be able to get over that. I'll take it one step further.

[01:26:52] I mean, April sent him on both of those missions in the first episode and in this first episode. And the difference in those conversations of like, I need you to come back. Ood is gone. You got to help me. Don't make me order you in this place. Like, hey, man, you want to go see a cool storm? And then after, like, hey, man, you can't tell people about this again. I know how bad you are at keeping secrets like that. But maybe this time actually keep that secret. There's no way that secret's being kept. No, no, no.

[01:27:19] Again, like I said, every Starfleet ship has done this time loop. Well, I keep waiting for someone to call in with, you know, not a glowing review of the episode because I feel like a jerk, like laying out my problems after someone loves the episode. But I've got to get this out. My big issue with especially the away mission is this. And I like with all respect to Chris Fisher, who I love again, Hegemony Part Two near perfect episode.

[01:27:43] And with all respect to the AR wall, which I do think is an amazing piece of technology that they use usually astounding effects. But usually it's like an extension of the set. And this is the first episode where it feels like the AR wall is the set to the point where, like, every scene on the planet is like them up on a rise with very little for the actors to actually interact with. And then just looking out at this this big. Computer screensaver looking, you know, landscape.

[01:28:12] And and I just it when they're landing, Eric is like, I've got to land far away. And I'm like, oh, great. We're going to get a trek through the jungle. But we don't get any of that. They just kind of keep appearing at these three different locations. And I just kept thinking back to Shuttle to Confori where they're walking through the jungle. And it was only three minutes, but it felt like Indiana Jones. Like they were moving through plants and they were interacting with stuff. And it felt real and tangible. That's what I want. I want to like move a big giant leaf out of the way. And there's a T-Rex eyeball staring at him or something.

[01:28:40] And all of this is just the actors felt so separate from the beautiful backgrounds. And then my biggest issue is this goddamn canyon, guys. There's this giant ravine that is the size of the Grand Canyon between them and the T-Rex. And Una does the classic Star Trek thing where like we've had a lot of like talk and a lot of techno babble. I'm just going to lay out the plot. Our iridium is on the other side of the T-Rex. We have to get through that to get to the iridium. They don't know it's a T-Rex yet, but she's like, we have to get through that.

[01:29:10] How are you even going to get to that? There's a giant canyon right between you and the T-Rex. Even if there's a log or a land bridge somewhere, you don't have to go anywhere near the T-Rex. And when you do go near the T-Rex in the next shot, it doesn't look anything like that area. Like the T-Rex never felt like a threat. It was so far away from them. On the other side, like the episode kept telling us one thing and then showing us another thing. And I feel like the AR wall just got away from him this time. Like all my little nitpicks, a lot of that is just like, I think the AR wall got away from him this time.

[01:29:40] And I think they just wanted to make a really ambitious, really spectacle driven episode for the premiere. And I get that. But I don't know why was there a canyon there? How did they get to the T-Rex? I feel like if this had been a 90 minute episode, that would have been the other third of the episode we got. I don't think they would have expanded any more of Pike's story. I think that was the right amount. The dinosaurs feel a little short shifted.

[01:30:06] I will agree with you that my biggest nitpick is with the dinosaur story too. And that after Una knocked out the T-Rex, La'an didn't say clever girl. And then when they were, if they had been climbing the cliff and like, Ortega's figured out a way to get everybody up. Clever girl. They could have just been saying it to each other the whole time. And given us, you know. Clever lassie. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know. I like, I don't, why is the canyon there? I don't understand. Well, and like, again,

[01:30:36] I'm not saying you're wrong. I just, for me, like it didn't hit. Like I thought, I thought like, for example, it didn't hit for anyone. I do. Yeah. The shuttle landing sequence is gorgeous. Oh my God. Especially when you know the ramp coming off the shuttle. Just all. Hell yeah. We've never gotten to see this. Yes. And it's like, it fits like they match the lighting perfectly. The environmental effects with the dust and everything. 100%. I think that it was a good use of the AR wall. Like I, I can understand. Technically it's great.

[01:31:06] Yeah. I get that. Well, and I can understand your nitpick with like, of the geography of the situation. Yeah. But like, I don't, I don't think that's an AR wall thing. I think that's, we just, we didn't make those scenes. Like we didn't have a scene of them climbing down and climbing up the other side or anything like that. Or like a nice aerial overshot of where they actually are versus where that doldrum ship is. Like maybe if behind the. Which honestly looked like a great landing site, Erica. I don't know what you're talking about. Right. Yeah. Well, and like behind where the T-Rex is,

[01:31:35] like if you had seen like the tip of the doldrum ship, I think that might've fixed some stuff. But like, I didn't even think of that until you brought it up. So like, I mean, maybe it is for me, like being caught up in the spectacle that they wanted us to have, you know? And, and I'm not here to say like, that's how you should watch it. I just. Sure. Sure. Sure. I didn't notice it until you brought it up. I'm happy for you. I, I did bump on him. Like it was a big old canyon there. And I was like, Oh wait, this episode is super fun. I'm going to choose to enjoy it. I just want my visuals to match what I'm being. I know. All right.

[01:32:05] Let's go ahead and hear from Jen. Hey, this is Jen. My favorite moment was the realization on Pike's face of the, time paradox and knowing what he had to do. Also, on punching the dinosaur was pretty funny. I kind of felt it coming as soon as we saw the dinos, but it's great how they played it out. Um, felt like kind of multiple twists and revelations. It makes me wonder about two things,

[01:32:33] the dino descendants that we saw in Voyager and the season six episode of TNG, uh, the chase, although that one takes place a lot further back. Where did they put the horses at the beginning? Hoshi would not have tolerated such BS from anybody, especially with languages. I loved the doctor who reference. I really kind of felt for Pike in this episode with the translation of the

[01:32:59] widower and the whole time travel destiny thing playing out again, especially on such a large scale, two really good Ortega's quotes that would be great on stickers or T-shirts would be hang onto something, anything, everything. And the lady may be a wee bit. Thank you. Yeah. So to your point about the Voyager aliens, I believe I saw this either on social media or in a discord somewhere.

[01:33:28] I believe those aliens were descended specifically from Hadrosaurs that would not have been alive at this time, maybe historically, meaning it's possible that they left earth by whatever means. I don't remember that specific Voyager episode, but they would have left earth before all of this happened and were thus not affected by the extinction. You're saying Parasaur Alaphus left earth on ships before all this happened. I don't,

[01:33:56] I don't think they let like built ships and flew them away. I think they were taken from earth. Interesting. But, but yes, before this, I mean, just going back to the widower thing, I love how like that is like the number one moment brought up by everyone, not a T-Rex, not the, this, these giant twists or big spectacle things like that shows how much people care about these characters and what has happened to them in the past. And what just like a,

[01:34:24] a narratively driven show that says, I think that's a great testament to the series. They had to cut the line where it was like, Whoa, not, not married. We were married. It was just, yeah. I'm totally single. So pocket universe stays in the pocket universe. But it's also like the kind of thing you didn't always get in older star Trek, right? Where it's like, Hey, this would affect people for the rest of their lives. Like they, you know, they eventually learn that lesson, but like,

[01:34:51] it is nice to know that the show, I think I said in my review, the show knows where it has been and it is using that to take its next step. And I think this is kind of the indicator of that. Like they're not dismissing everything that happened there. They're confidently moving forward and the characters still feel all of those things. And I think it's present, not only in Pike, but in Spock, in Laan, in Scotty, in Ortegas. Like it is all the way through and I'm Benga, the world's most tragic, but also greatest character.

[01:35:21] Yeah. I, I appreciate the introduction. Again, I thought we talked with the show owners about how, what they had to do. I don't care about the Shaw introduction. Um, I was wondering when we were going to talk about a Shaw. I, I mean, I, I like, I like the interplay. I like Spock shaking his head at, at who her, which again, it's like, she's supposed to be really good at languages. Stop making her the punchline of it, but I know they've already done it multiple times, but I don't know. It's the most forgettable part of the, part of this episode for me.

[01:35:51] Well, I mean, we've obviously forgot about it for an hour and 40 minutes. Uh, but I, I mean, I love a Shaw. Uh, you know, I've seen more of her, but I loved her in this episode. She's definitely the Pellia of this episode from broken bow. uh, although at least Pellia had something to do in broken bow. And I don't know why they couldn't have put a shot circle. Sorry. Thank you. I had broken balance. The enterprise enterprise. Sorry. Sorry, Jesse. I didn't mean to give you some, yeah. Uh, broken circle. Uh,

[01:36:19] at least Pellia had something to do with stealing the enterprise there. Like, and I don't know why they couldn't just put a shot on the bridge during everything. So, and at least like cut to her being like, wow, this place is crazy. Like I'm a new cadet and I'm having to exterminate a trillion people. Um, but that was my point, I guess. Yeah. Okay. They like what? Yeah. It would have been a good chance to kind of tie her with to Paul of her being like, no, time travel doesn't exist. Yeah. Vulcan science director. It says no. So how could this even be an option?

[01:36:49] I, I did. I don't miss miss or dislike that character, but I kind of feel like the show went, what if we had to Lynn on our show? Well, which, which I get, like, I fully understand that impulse, but I was like, is this, it's just a to Lynn. You know, equivalent, which I'd be okay with, but it is kind of like, okay, we've, we've seen that character and I'm sure it is meant to be, you know,

[01:37:18] to Lynn and to Paul and a little bit of Tupring even, but it's like, I, I don't, again, don't dislike the character. It was just kind of like, this is an interesting episode to introduce her and then not have her kind of take part in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one, it's, it's, it's more about her than, than the character herself. Right. I don't really mind that she's like every other Vulcan character, but I, I mean, to that point, I think I was thinking about it and I think that's one of the reasons I love, you know,

[01:37:45] hegemony part two in your perfect episode and wedding bell blues so much is that they were kind of able to keep saying, it doesn't make it more true. Good. Uh, is they were able to kind of spread the, uh, the season premiere, you know, checklist between two episodes because they kind of like wedding bell blues was kind of like a secondary premiere and here it is all just crammed in one episode. Yes, definitely. Like one of the issues for me. Yeah. Yep. And I, I could just, so we're clear, Kim, I,

[01:38:13] I don't disagree that hegemony part two is perfect. Perfect. Like it is a very, very good episode. Oh, but, and going back to the Velociraptor, like again, I love, as soon as that Velociraptor popped up, I was like, yes, something practical for these actors to cling to. So I was super happy for it. I definitely wanted more with the Velociraptor. I was like, it's going to chase him through the ship, but lawn punching it in the face. It's pretty damn good. It's like a beautiful shot. You could tell it's a real head. She's punching. It's not just CGI. Yeah. It was a gorgeous, fun moment.

[01:38:43] And, uh, and talk about like cutting against, against expectations, right? Like, Oh, here's the threat. Oh, I guess not. Yeah. That was, that was well done. Exactly. Exactly. We've gone back and forth on this, just like the enterprise did it in hegemony part two, where they just go back and forth like three times. And that's the episode. Editor's note. Here's a bonus call. And by bonus, I mean, yes, platy, I'm very sorry. There were very many calls and somehow we missed your call,

[01:39:12] but we did notice it before the episode came out. So we're going to listen to it right now. And then I'm going to react to it because I mean, I'm the one who you want to hear from, right? I mean, obviously. Hey there, open Pike night. It's Platy M three, and I'm excited for yet another season of my hits, shits and giggles. All right. Hits. Pretty much everything from the new opening credit shots, including the stuff from a later in the season. We got Pellia's Dr. Who reference Laan's punching a dinosaur. And honestly, just the amazing plot.

[01:39:41] I saw it coming a mile away, but I love that feeling and how it tied together. It's earth's past and future with Mars and everything. That was awesome. All right. Shits. No glaringly bad stuff, but I did have an oh shit moment when down on earth, Ortegas was briefly alone with Laan looking down at the dead doldrums. And she talked about aliens, how being sad she was that they were shot down and dying far from home. Total terrarium callback. And while brief, I think Laan kind of got the message there.

[01:40:08] Also had a no shit thought on a rewatch that maybe that Martian commander might've read a little too many of the freely available files on how the Federation came about because of humanity. She seemed interested in the whole species working together thing. So was her suicidal genocidal shot meant to let humanity evolve and the Federation come into being? Did she set those things in motion on purpose? All right. Giggles. Laughed a lot with the bickering between Ortegas and Scotty.

[01:40:35] Sam Kirk's comment about how it stunk dealing with the insectoid species that communicated via smell. And great dad joke. Love Pelley's joke in common about remembering part of that when Spock summarized 65 million years of soul system history. All good stuff. Platty M3 signing off. All right, Platty, I'm really glad that we noticed this call and that we made sure to get it into the edit because your point on Cassell is something I hadn't even considered.

[01:41:04] And I think it's brilliant. It kind of gives her this extra layer of dimensionality, right? Like she feels doomed. She feels this sense of duty to make sure that what happened to her people doesn't happen again. But she has now literally seen a more optimistic future. And that's part of why she's okay with going down with the ship here. I mean, that's,

[01:41:33] there's not much that's more Star Trek than that. And it's, you know, it kind of works in with that whole like Martian DNA being present nowadays. And some of the species that we know, this is an excellent point, Platty. And I love that you managed to weave like these real gems of actual true insight into one of my favorite recurring parts of open pike night, which is your hits, shits and misses segment.

[01:42:03] So thank you so much, Platty for bringing this and calling in. And I can't wait to hear from you again next week. And I promise you, we will make a checklist next time. And we'll make sure not to have to add your call in the editing process. But we do have one more call. Here is Starship. Hello, open pike night. It's Starship here. I am so happy. The show is back. It felt like an old friend finally came home.

[01:42:32] I thought the episode was really fun. It's probably not going to make my all time remiss, but it was a really fun episode. I loved, I loved that everybody got something to do in it, except Chapel. She got the short end this week, but everybody else got to, got to do something and contribute. And La'on punched a dinosaur in the face. And that was pretty cool. It was very, very blazing saddles of her. Um, I really liked the moment that she had with Ortega's looking at the,

[01:43:02] uh, the crashed doldrum. It was kind of a, uh, a reference to terrarium without actually saying anything about terrarium directly. So that was a really lovely moment. So all in all, it was a great premiere. I can't wait for the rest of the season. I love when Conan punches the camel. That's my favorite. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. We need a shot of, uh, uh, like Uhura explaining to Pike about the Martians. Like, you know, these people are morons.

[01:43:34] Like it'd be completely out of character, but it might be worth it. Um, now I will say you're right. Chapel didn't get a lot to do, but I did appreciate that. What we got from chapel is kind of a moment of optimism and hope. Like so frequently what we get with chapel is melodrama and the feelings of the situation, which makes sense. Like she's got some serious situations that would absolutely drum up feelings, but it feels like they remembered here. Like, Oh,

[01:44:03] she's a consummate professional who chose to be working with star fleet for a reason. Here's her outright stating, like these ideals really matter to me. I think it's absolutely a pursuit worth engaging in. Like she got to at least have a meaningful moment, even if it was a singular moment in the episode. Yeah. And I, I really liked that. And we kind of get more of a hint at the friendship where she's like, so you're going to tell us about dinosaurs, right? Like, which, you know, going back to the headiness of it all,

[01:44:33] like that is what they would fall back on. Like instead of talking about this incredibly fraught ethical paradox, we just went through. Can you please tell us about the dinosaurs you just got to see? Right. One of whom you punched. Like, so it's, I agree that I kind of wish there was more from her, but I'm glad that what we got from her is hopeful and meaningful. Cause that's not always what we get with chapel.

[01:44:59] And I think it's safe and subtle enough to say that for those of us who have seen more of this season, don't worry. Oh yeah. Don't worry. Yeah. If you like chapel, don't worry. Yeah. So talk about a near perfect episode. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That, that I will agree with. So, so mysterious. Do we have any, uh, final thoughts before we, we wind up our, our season four premiere.

[01:45:29] Talked about a shot. I just, you know, I love that we are continuing with the, Trek classic time toilet that they get sucked down into. That beautiful shot. Yeah. We haven't even talked about the ship, like the ship shots, the special effects. Holy God, they were great. This episode. Oh, you mean that shot that was clearly not a dragon forming? Yeah. It was gorgeous. I know it clearly wasn't a dragon forming. Okay. And okay. How much of that trailer we reacted? Oh yeah. Half that damn trailer was just from this episode. Oh yeah. They lean hard on episode one for sure.

[01:45:59] Yeah. Maybe the most toilety of the time toilets. That was a real scene. And we've seen some big time toilets in this episode. And the ship is physically getting flushed down as indicated by the camera. And then you even have like that final flush blurp with a little flash of light. That whole turd that just comes right back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very toilety. Like, and, and it's gorgeous, a beautiful toilet. But yeah, I hope, you know,

[01:46:28] this doesn't get remembered as the beautiful toilet episode, but I'm sure that it won't. Um, I do. I, I just want to say like, this is always a great thing in my life at the start of a new strange new world season, getting to be back air quotes in the room with John and Cameron, getting to hear what everybody thinks of this episode, the journey everyone has been on through watching it, maybe rewatching it, maybe watching it. An unhealthy number of times like I do. And, you know,

[01:46:57] landing on their points. Like this is what it's all about. And I am very excited to be back in this. And like, we may have written a tall order for ourselves deciding, all right, we're going to do 30 episodes in 10 weeks. Right. But like, as far as hard work goes, this is some of the most enjoyable hard work that I get to do, especially outside of my actual job. Um, but I cannot,

[01:47:25] I cannot let this episode without giving Cameron his props. Like the work that Cameron has done in the last two months to make sure that you're going to be hearing from the writers. You're going to be hearing from the directors. You're going to be watching video of that as well as getting it in your podcast feed. It really cannot be understated. The amount of effort that Cameron has been putting in already before the season has even hit your screen.

[01:47:51] And the show really just wouldn't be what it is right now without the work that Cameron is doing. So thank you specifically, Cameron, you are absolutely the glue this year. And yes, we could not do this without you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I certainly have gotten a lot of help and it's, it's nice knowing that I can, uh, lean on you guys for all the other stuff while I plunge forward on, on, on those fronts. And I will say speaking of toilets. Yeah. People, people have talked about, yeah,

[01:48:20] I'm really full of ourselves. People have talked about us and our relationship with paramount and the, the creators of the show in particular and suspected things that aren't true. We do not get paid to do this. We don't get paid by paramount. Um, but I, I will say it feels really good to hear things from people like Chris Fisher that like, Oh yeah. Keevan and Henry love you guys. And like people like, I like that.

[01:48:47] We're the strange new worlds podcast that the people who make strange new worlds really like, and it feels good. And yeah, cam, uh, I it's, it is impossible to overstate all the hard work you've done. Like all these writer director interviews, we've already recorded the first, like five of the first, like five of the first six episodes of all of those interviews pretty much so far. So it's great to have that in the bag.

[01:49:13] I am so looking forward to recording episode three in person with you guys in Las Vegas. And yeah, it's going to be so fun. Anybody who's going to be at STLV, who's listening to this, we're going to be wearing shirts that say open pike night on them. It's not going to be subtle. We are not subtle. So stop by, say hello, stop us. We don't have a booth. We're just going to be walking around sticking microphones in people's faces, just having a grand old time. Cannot wait to see you all there. Yeah.

[01:49:42] We do have a shirt that says Gorn hub. So like, we're not going to be hard to find, like, just look for that level of joke t-shirt and you will see us. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it has been a long night, but you know what? It hasn't been. It hasn't been a long mid, like gap between seasons. Cause we didn't have to wait two years this time. It feels really strange to be talking about season four already, but man, is it fantastic. Thank you to all of our callers. Thank you to all of our listeners.

[01:50:11] Thank you to everyone out there. Who's loving strange new worlds, hating strange new worlds, watching strange new worlds, because we are in for a ride. We have 15 more episodes of this show till it's done. We are here to watch and enjoy every single one of them. So be sure to clean up after yourselves. Be sure to tip your servers. You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here. I'm so glad you asked John, if you are listening and thinking to yourself, I want to call and talk about this show. How do I do that?

[01:50:39] The easiest way is to just go to open pike.com. You can record your call right there on the website, or if you prefer, you can record an MP3 and email that to open pike at gmail.com. What John was just talking about being the show that the people that make strange new worlds, like a huge, if not the biggest part of that is you, the callers. It is so cool for the people that make this show to know there's a place they can go and hear people really care about this show.

[01:51:09] Social media can only go so far. Hearing it straight from your voice really matters. And we are very grateful to be able to share your voices with not only the world, but the people behind strange new worlds. Jesse, how can folks eat their voices on open pike night? If they enjoyed what they heard tonight and want to lend their, their comments over the rest of the season. I think we're good. All right. Leave it like that the whole time.

[01:51:38] It's a time travel. Oh, actually. Yeah. And then I'll leave this part in. Yeah. And crescendo the music right now.