[UNLOCKED] - Section 31 Review

[00:00:00] Hello Open Pike Night listeners, new and old. Welcome back to Open Pike Night. We are releasing for one week only our Patreon exclusive Section 31 coverage because it is the 31st. So we are right there in line with every other Star Trek podcast. But unlike every other Star Trek podcast, we take calls. We want to hear from you. If you want to talk about Star Trek Strange New Worlds or whatever it is we're covering, go to openpike.com.

[00:00:30] And sign up for our sub stack, sign up for our Discord and you'll get notifications whenever we are putting out calls for new voice hails from you, our loyal, wonderful listeners. We would not be Open Pike Night without our callers and we want to hear from you. Next up we are going to be talking about Discovery Season 2 Episode 8. That is the one where Pike sees his future. So if you want to call in and lend your voice, we love our callers. We want to hear all kinds of people talk about how they felt.

[00:01:00] I'm seeing Christopher Pike hold that time, Christopher Pike hold that time crystal. But for now, let's go ahead and listen to our coverage, Patreon exclusive of Section 31.

[00:01:09] Welcome to Open Pike Night and our special patron exclusive coverage of the Star Trek Section 31 movie. That's right. We have gotten secret, top secret limited access to see this film before it was released.

[00:01:38] And now we're here to bring it to you. And who are we? Of course, I am producer John and with me are my co-hosts, Cameron Not-So-Green-Shirt Harrison. You're shade shaming? Are you shade shaming me? Absolutely. And Jesse The Beard Bailey. I guess I am kind of the only beard left on this show, huh? That's... Wait, is that a euphemism? That's right. Also, I fucked up my intro because I was like, I'm going to be like, welcome to Night Pike Open.

[00:02:09] Oh. Mirror Universe, the intro, the opening animation there. Yeah. Oh, the intro of this movie, which was really good and made me text Jesse and say, hey, Jesse, I just started Section 31. I'm a minute in and it's amazing so far. It is amazing one minute in. And then there was two hours, sorry, an hour and 30 minutes, almost exactly, of no texting. And then just three of those emoji faces in a row. So that's my preview right now. That's my preview.

[00:02:37] Open mouth with teeth emoji, I think. Yeah. Open mouth with teeth night. Yeah. Yeah. This is going to be difficult for me because I... I'm so curious how Jesse is going to tackle this. Well, so I was telling the guys right before we started recording, welcome patrons, by the way. Thank you for supporting Open Bike Night. Yes, thank you for supporting Open Bike Night. We appreciate you. We're sorry that it has taken so long to get you some patron-exclusive content. We promise we're working on more.

[00:03:08] We live across three different time zones now, so it's a whole thing. You may be able to hear my voice. It's a little crazy. I'm getting over being very, very sick. So if that's messing with your ears, I'm sorry. I know some people hate to listen to that, but I just... We'll get into it, but yeah, you guys... It is that bad. It is that bad, but it's interesting. There's an interesting conversation ahead of us, guys. This episode will be good. Yeah.

[00:03:36] There's a lot in it to love, but... So we'll go from there. Okay. All right. Do we want to start with what we loved? Is that how we should structure this? I was wondering. That'll be a short segment. So Cameron's right, though. I love the intro. The whole setup flashback with Michelle Yeoh's Georgiou as a young person. You get to see how she became emperor. It seems like kind of a bad system. I mean, I'm just going to throw that out there. Is that really how the Terrans would choose their rulers?

[00:04:06] Right? Like, it's not... It's not... I just assume like someone gets... There's a coup every few years. That's how it works. I've been the person... I think I've seen more mirror episodes than anybody in the Hiss group. Have you guys seen the Enterprise mirror episodes? I have seen that episode, John. And it stinks. Well, but even that... But the way it ends, I'm like... Right. Yes. Is this how it was set up after that episode ended? Because this would be where that happens.

[00:04:35] Well, and like what we get... Like this is the... What we get in TOS is that it's very clear that ascension in the ranks happens by killing the person who outranks you. Right? And I'm like... Not the Hunger Games. Yeah. It's not a contest. Like, I mean, it is, but it's not... There are no like formal rules. And I... Again, I like this part. I'm totally fine with it. Like, it's very well acted.

[00:05:03] It's beautiful to look at. The acting... The show is amazing. Yeah. Like, very emotional. The scenery is great. Like, I love the score behind it. I love the idea of like, oh, she is just killing her family. Oh my God. Which as soon as she said, oh, there are two of us left, I was like, oh, I know what's about to happen. All right, you guys. We have seen this movie before. I'll be honest. Her killing her family caught me off guard because I was like... Oh, yeah.

[00:05:33] I thought, oh, she's going to say there are two of us left. The other one will show up and massacre her family and then she'll kill that person. But like, I really loved it. And I'm like, all right, okay, here we go. And then we get into the space station. I'm like, all right, there she is. Okay, here we go. And then I was like, are we going to go? Like, what's happening? Okay. Let me start with this.

[00:05:59] Because there is kind of like a chronological trajectory to this movie for me. It feels to me, and I've read some about it, and from what I've read, this is not what happened. But what it really feels like, because this was originally supposed to be a series, it felt like they shot a pilot, a solid with a budget pilot, started setting up to film the second episode, got the sets made and everything, and then we're told, eh, we're canceling this. We're going to turn it into an hour and a half movie.

[00:06:29] Use what you got and try to wrap the story up and truncate everything you shot in the pilot. That's what it feels like. Apparently that's not what happened. Absolutely what it feels like. But it had to have been, at least script-wise, it had to have been what happened. And that's what I think. Because the first third is big. It's epic. It's not terrible. The pacing is shit. Oh, man. But it feels like if you had recut it, it could be a very solid first third of a movie. And then it just goes south.

[00:06:57] Or a very solid first two episodes of a short series. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I was like, I don't know how far in I was before I went, they took every script they had written for a series and went, okay, scale it down, make sure the main arc stays, and put that in. Because you're right. Like, maybe they didn't shoot anything before they knew it was going to be a movie.

[00:07:21] But it really, like, honestly, this is coming from me, feels like they were told, turn your series into a movie using the scripts you already have. It almost feels like if it was a 10-episode series, that it's episode one, two, cut out the rest, last episode.

[00:08:09] Yeah. Like, oh, she's clocking all of the Section 31 people, like in Mission Impossible. Then she has the scene where she talks to the guy, telling him who they all are, just like in the first Mission Impossible movie, without a massive fish tank explosion. I'm like, I'm being reminded of a better movie that is a crime that no movie should commit. I'm going to let you talk real quick, Jesse. I'm so sorry. But I am going to say my other theory about this, and again, I don't think it's the case,

[00:08:36] but it kind of feels like an AI written script in that. And how you just said, John, it was like, oh, just all these tropes. We're going to pull in all these tropes and dialogue bits without really understanding how they work and go together. Like, we're going to have two introduce the crew scenes back to back? That doesn't work. I'll give it more credit than that. For me, I was definitely getting notes of like Cowboy Bebop, where it's like, you want

[00:09:04] to do the tropes heavy, but you want to acknowledge those tropes because you don't want people to think you're pretending, oh, we're being clever. It's like, no, they're doing a gangster heist movie in space. Like, this is how that would be in Star Trek. And there are a lot of things that actually reminded me of Cowboy Bebop, which is probably why I'm able to say, no, I think they actually wrote this. I think people sat down at a table and wrote it.

[00:09:31] But like, I would have been fine if they had killed, like, I was upset when they killed the Delta. And then I went, wait, no, this movie is telling me what kind of movie it is, right? Like, you don't know what to expect. Like, any of these people could go. But then nobody dies for like most of the movie. And then they're like, oh, actually double betrayal in like the span of 15 minutes. And then this huge character reveal.

[00:09:59] And I'm like, yeah, like there was a lot dealt with in flashbacks, which is like, again, structurally, that'd be great in like episode five of the season. And then I'm like, oh, that makes good sense. Because by now I've forgotten about that other character because I thought he was dead, you know? And I just, you know, I will say I really like all the characters.

[00:10:22] I feel like a lot of them are not well served by this story. In classic Trek fashion, I think all the actors here are immensely watchable and giving it 110%. Even if I don't agree with how the characters are being used all the time. Yes. I'll fully agree with that. Like I was never bored watching the characters be the characters. I'm like, you know what?

[00:10:48] I, the dialogue is crap, but all of you are inhabiting these characters. And I like, I'm with it. Even the boring lead guy. I'm with it. Yeah. There's definitely some crap dialogue. I also think that there's a fair amount of decently funny jokes that are edited horribly. I think there's a lot of humor that would work in a better edited film. I'm not sure what's worse, the writing or the editing on this thing. It's honestly, I'm not sure.

[00:11:14] My thing with the dialogue is that it was all, like we were saying, very well delivered. The actors did their jobs, right? I think Casey Roll is Rachel Garrett. I would love her to get a series. Like I would watch that Rachel Garrett do anything. And I think they really managed to nail that character down from what we know of her from yesterday's Enterprise, right? Like, yes, she's by the book, but also she has this side of her that's like, all right, let's, you know, grip it and rip it.

[00:11:42] Like whatever we got to do, let's make this happen. And I feel like- Chaos troll, chaos goblin. Yeah. Like, and like dialogue like that, I'm like, what is this Deadpool? Like, and let me say, like the problem that I have with that in particular is that a lot of the characters' dialogue felt completely interchangeable. Like, and it acted that way, right? Like all of the characters talk the same way. Why is that? They're not all from the same place. They should all have like- Yeah.

[00:12:12] And when you have a team, you want them all to be separate and individuals. Yeah. Yeah. But I- It is and or aspirations with Deadpool dialogue slapped onto Mission Impossible story. And then they're like, throw a Starfleet badge on it. And that's how much Star Trek is in this movie. But it is, I mean, they took every major other IP and tried to make it something. Not only is that just how much Star Trek is in this movie, what I found interesting is,

[00:12:41] again, the first fact, I think, obviously very spy-heavy. Like we get this great kind of previously on version that's done in like the spy kind of, you know, here's your mission if you choose to accept it. I was looking for a video game controller in my hand all the time that would die on my phone. It worked for me. It worked for me. And then everything at the hotel, of course, is very spy-heavy. Maybe a little too much, which I'm sure I will complain about later. And then you get stuff with a mole, which is kind of spy-y, but it doesn't feel that spy-y the way they handle it.

[00:13:10] And then nothing else about this movie feels like a spy film. Like if you're making a Star Trek spy film, make a Star Trek spy film. Don't make a Star Trek spy first act. Yeah. Yeah. And like, don't kill your best possible spy character. And like, I'm glad they kept the Changeling around at least. Like that made good logical sense. Why? He never changed. No. He did. None of them used their powers. All their powers are used in the plan that didn't actually happen. He did the- That's the only time we see. Yes, we-

[00:13:39] He did the cool Starfish. That's a cool moment. That was very cool. Which is, I like, it's the only cool moment about that. Especially because just before that, they're fighting a corpse. I'm like, this is actually pretty cool. Like the pieces of it are there. Oh, the corpse, yeah, yeah. Like, there are things there you want. But the effects of that, I mean, that train sequence made Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom look like a Mission Impossible stunt. It was- Mm-hmm. Like- I mean, that was where I was like, where the fuck is the budget on this film? Because we waited so long for this.

[00:14:08] Like, they spent so much time on it. And if we're to believe, and I know for a fact that Star Trek anything takes 18 months of post-production, right? Like, you can see every cent in every episode of Strange New Worlds. You can see every cent in every episode of Discovery. And here it's like- This was a six-month shooting schedule. They- Six months of production for this. Wow. But then they- But it's like, how much time did you spend at the end? Because that- You're right. Like that train tube thing was like-

[00:14:37] Standing around in a circle arguing. Four scenes of that. Four scenes. Which- But no, no. Patrons, thank you once again for supporting us. We do like Star Trek. We do. We do. We are trying as hard as we can to find goodness in this movie. And we'll get back to our list of things we like, because there's more I liked. Okay. But I do want to know, I want to go back to the crew, though. Yes. Because you have this crew that all has these abilities. You have the mech warrior. You have the changeling. You have the delton.

[00:15:06] You have the little guy who can fly around. None of them use their powers for spy stuff. You see the changeling morph twice. Once for a gag at the very end. And again, once for their plan that never actually happened. The mech guy never gets to use his thing. The delton never makes anyone fall in love with her. They never get to use their powers. Yeah. The mech guy crashes through a wall, but it's for comedic effect. Yes. It's to show like, oh. And then he does it three more times. Right.

[00:15:36] But it's to be like, oh, look, he's not as good at this as Georgiou with her phase shielding. Which I will point out, we totally called in our trailer breakdown. I was like, that's going to be some phase shielding or something. That must have been you, Jesse. I believe it was, not to too late. I will say I enjoyed the phase fight. That was a high point of the film. Even though the TNG phase fight ended on more of a holy shit, what just happened moment than this supposedly dark film. But otherwise, I liked it.

[00:16:05] Except the point where the MacGuffin, which is supposedly phased, ricochets off one wall and goes through another wall. It was inconsistent. Like, why did she get stuck in the wall? Like, it was blinking. You know what I mean? I kind of bought that. And we, of course, have to ignore the grounds, for some reason, the bottoms of their feet. Apparently don't phase. Grav plating, just like in the TNG episode. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, there's literally no actual explanation for it.

[00:16:34] But if you can forgive it in TNG, you got to forgive it here. I forgive that part. Yeah. But I mean, you guys, you two know me and the listeners know, like, this is killing me to not be in love with this. Like, I wanted to love this so bad. And like I said, there are parts of it that I did really enjoy. But most of the time I was going like, what are we doing here? And mostly it was because I felt like I could see the production.

[00:17:01] Like, I could see them going, sorry, we can't do that episode. You can have these two scenes from that episode. Or, you know, that kind of a thing. Because I'm like, this character, San, like, we should either really identify with him or really hate him. And as it was, I was just like, eh, he's understandable. Like, I could see where he'd be pissed. You know, like.

[00:17:26] A 10 episode season, you'd see flashbacks of him for the first seven episodes, his buildup to the death and like sight, you know, how his relationship with her developed over those years. Yeah. And then the reveal. And this, we just, they crammed it in there. And it's like, man, we don't have any emotional payoff. It feels like, I mean, it feels like the most kind of unforgivable thing Georgiou does that we see is kill her family the way she does.

[00:17:55] But that doesn't seem to be her redemption arc. It's not about her family at all. Even though there's the great line at the end where San is like, yeah, when you meet your family, see if they care that you change. Like, I was like, oh shit, that's a good burn, San. It was a great line. But it's not about her family. Like, this should have been her finding like a found family with this crew and then saving them because she couldn't to try to make up for what she did to her family or something. Right. Well, and like, we know that she's bad. Right. Because she was the emperor.

[00:18:23] We know she's committed multiple genocides, et cetera, et cetera. But like, shouldn't her family maybe be alive in the prime universe? Like, isn't there a way to dangle that in front of us as like, well, here's why she wants to save the whole prime universe. And she suddenly gives a shit. Right. Because it's like, that's really good. Would they though? Because she went back because apparently this is not during the discovery timeline. Right. We're like years later. Right.

[00:18:52] 60 years later, 80 years later. 60 something. Oh, yes. But shouldn't Sun be much older than her? But how long did McCoy live? How did Sun track her through multiple dimensions and time travels? What has he been doing? She went forward 900 years and then back to where she is now. How is he keeping track of her at all? And this is supposed to take place after the TOS episode, right? So it's like, there's at least, there has been a thing.

[00:19:20] So I can forgive like, you know, oh, he heard about the TOS episode and was like, oh, I got to figure out a way. Like, that's got to be where she is. But like, even if they don't give me her family, give me like her, her youngest sibling. Right. Sure. Is like her age. Yeah. And she runs into them or something. I just, because like, even in those moments where, in Discovery, where she's like, no, you know, like I'm softening. I'm starting to realize the benefits of found family.

[00:19:49] She is not with her found family anymore because that's Michael. I mean, that's true. You can't, like, they didn't connect her to this team of operatives enough for me to be like, oh yeah, she'd put it all on the line for these people or like humanity in general. Like, and I love the Georgiou character, but I figured, oh, there's going to be something to ground her to this, you know? And it, I guess it turns out that she's grounded because she realizes that dictatorships don't work. But I. Benevolent dictatorships don't work.

[00:20:19] Yeah. Which, which like, okay, I, like, it's not a bad sentiment, but like, it's, it's, it's a little obvious, right? Like, that's not quite on the level of like an introspection that a Star Trek fan necessarily expects. And I don't feel like it's fair to be like, if it's Star Trek, it has to be this way, this way, this way. But, like, here's me being unfair.

[00:20:47] Like, if it's Star Trek, it should be better than that. If it's Star Trek, it shouldn't be boring. I think it's what, I think, I think we have watched one of the worst installments of a Star Trek ever. I do. I'm going to plant my flag there. Except for maybe Shades of Grey. Like, I was not looking forward to re-watching this for my notes. Yeah. Okay, so. This, this is bad Star Trek. So here's the bombshell, right? This is, yeah. I haven't watched it a second time. Like.

[00:21:15] I get the notifications, so I know that neither of you have. And I was like, hmm, this is telling. I think this is. I am absolutely going to watch this when it premieres. Because. Yeah. I want Paramount or whomever ends up owning Paramount to please keep taking swings like this. And I, the thing I think that bugs me the most is that I feel like this may not do great. And Paramount's going to go, oh, people don't want Star Trek movies.

[00:21:44] And it's like, yeah, that's not true. We want Star Trek movies. They will always take the worst lesson. Just, just use a crew from one of your effing TV shows. I just. Well, they did. This is a disco crew, right? I mean, no. You mean a crew of characters. Yeah. Because it's Michelle Yeoh's Philippa Georgiou, who again, I love. But that's a character. To that point. Like, she went through a great arc on Discovery, right? Yeah. She found redemption on Discovery.

[00:22:11] Like, what are we learning about her that we, we didn't learn in Discovery? Right. And it's like, I, again, you're right. The last scene, very cool. Good fight scene. Loved seeing her take a sword to the face and still get back up. Like, very well done. I will say, like, all of that wasn't terrible. Like, that final climax wasn't terrible. It was great. But San's dialogue for that whole fight was like, this is a Marvel ending. Like, this is a. Yes. Marvel, Marvel, Marvel.

[00:22:40] Throughout this whole film. And it's. Yeah. And as much as I love Marvel, the endings aren't great usually. Right. Yeah. Like, like, I believe the Marvel third act problem is a well-known phrase, right? Like, I just, I don't know. I, I, I really, really, really, really wanted to find something in this where I'm like, no, here's actually why it's great. And I have not found that yet. And I did. I don't think I found it on my first watch. Again, I love the characters. And that might be my thing is like, the characters are all great.

[00:23:10] Except sadly for fuzz, the Vulcan guy who is like actually a shell. Like, it doesn't matter that he's a Vulcan. I don't understand that. That character is so weird. Cause if you want to make like a Vulcan character who doesn't act Vulcan. Okay. That's one thing, but then you make him something else. So it's kind of hat on hat. And like, yeah, I just, I never see him as a Vulcan because he never acts like a Vulcan. He just looks like a surfer dude with pointy ears. Like it doesn't matter.

[00:23:39] Like, and I'm sure in 10 episodes, there would have been a scene where he would have had to infiltrate a Vulcan place because he's the guy who looks Vulcan. Right. Maybe him in the shapeshifter. But of course he has to try to act like we never see him try to act Vulcan, which is where the humor from that character would come out. Instead. I'm just like the whole time that whole opening scene when she's IDing them all. I'm like, well, this is the worst group of secret agents ever. They bring in a Vulcan who doesn't act like a Vulcan, a mecha suit guy who apparently isn't too weird, but also not normal.

[00:24:08] Like all these people are, they stick out like sore thumbs. That's what I'm trying to say. They're not great at being undercover. Like they're terrible. And so why would she? So of course she sees them, but why does she assume they're section 31? Is section 31 just full of dog shit operatives? Right. Like, well, I will give it that maybe because also don't they destroy control in season two? Why is control back? Doesn't matter because they make this, they're made this movie assuming that somebody who's never seen Star Trek is going to watch this.

[00:24:38] Well, that's why we have the video game. Discovery once. Well, and exactly. Exactly. And it's absolutely fair that this could, you know, this could be before control had the problem or like control never, the control problem never occurred here because it was like a time loop in season two. But like, yeah, I don't like even the Zeph character, like, yes, the mech is dumb. The guy is like, I don't know what the word is for him, but like, I liked him.

[00:25:07] The character was good. Like the actor did a great job and it was fun to have like, I think an Aussie guy just like in Star Trek being an Aussie guy with like a big personality and you know, the way they ended up killing him was very cool. Like, oh, okay. I dig this. I mean, it telegraphed the air quote twist 10 miles away. And then I think they even gave a flashback like, oh, I can get into small places. Like, yeah, that was 40 minutes ago.

[00:25:37] You don't need to flash me back to that. Like, I understand. The editor feels he needs to flash everywhere. There's a five minute segment of this film where we are zipping in and out of someone's head, jumping back and forth in time and jumping back and forth between what they thought would happen to what really happened within five minutes. Yeah. It's impossible to tell what is happening at any given moment in this film. I'm so confused. I, at some point tonight, we'll take a break and each of us try to explain the plot of this film because I am curious. Yeah.

[00:26:07] For me, like the end of it, I was like, okay, you know what? They're committing hard. They're killing Georgiou. They're killing Alok, the Omari Hardwick character, which I was happy to watch all the way through the movie. To be completely honest, I thought he killed it. He was very, you know, easy to look at in the Captain Pike mold of a Star Trek character. But like two things, I was 100% sure, probably because I'm an idiot, that he was going to

[00:26:37] reveal, oh, my name is Benjamin Sisko and I'm from an alternate timeline or something. And I was like, please don't do that. So I was really glad they didn't. Very glad that they didn't do that. But then at the end, I'm like, okay, cool. They're going to commit. They're going to kill Georgiou. She's going to sacrifice herself for the greater good. Like, nope, it's fine. They didn't. Everybody's fine. So what did she do? Did they genocide the mirror universe?

[00:27:03] No, because it just closed the portal, which is like- But that's not what the device does. Yeah. They literally say this weapon can destroy a quadrant. Yeah. And it's ticking down and they're trying to keep it from exploding in their area. And it said it explodes in both universes. No, it exploded on the threshold, which very clearly would just close the door. In case- I mean, I think that's what we're supposed to do. In case it's not clear, I'm pretty sure that's what happened, but I don't like it.

[00:27:31] Like, I mean- But we also know, it's like, we know they- Because I thought the same thing came out. I was like, no, we know they didn't destroy the Terran Empire because Deep Space Nine exists. Exactly. Because Voyager exists, because we've seen it after this. But her line is, if you had the chance to go back and kill the woman who did all this stuff, so these terrible things wouldn't happen, would you do it? As if she's about to go kill the Terran Empire. Yeah. Which is like, unfair, because you did that stuff.

[00:28:01] Yeah. Yeah. She talked like it was the butterfly effect ending where he strangles himself with his umbilical cord, but then they gave us the ending where he just insults Amy Smart's character and never becomes friends with her. And that's another thing, John. That movie sucked, too. Like, I didn't- I'm happy to say it. I did not care for the butterfly effect. But- Not as hard as this movie. But the point being- At least that had some bold choices. And that's what I'm saying. Like, they didn't even make the choice here. They were like, oh no, let's keep her alive. Like, maybe-

[00:28:31] Also, why? The past catching up to you is not the same thing as fate, a word which gets mentioned a lot in this movie. Yeah. And like, it's a dumb MacGuffin name. Like, okay. The godsend argument is one of the- I enjoy that. Again, it's not edited well. The music underscores the comedic scenes terribly in this movie, but- Oh my God. The concept of them fighting over how to pronounce the name- No. That's pretty good. That was a great scene.

[00:29:00] It is a dumb name for a weapon. Sure. Yeah. God's hand is a better name for a weapon. Like, I just- I- There are things- The mountain god's eye. I mean, something. It looks like an eyeball. In case you can't tell, I'm very upset that I didn't get to just love this. It's a dumb name for a presumably dumb weapon. So what it is, is it's a device that can destroy a quadrant, basically, of planets worth of

[00:29:30] planets so that anyone who tries to pull a coup on Georgiou, which seems how the Terrans would actually choose their rulers and is what she's afraid of, would never do that because they wouldn't have nothing left to rule. That would be great if it's a dead man switch. If it's a dead man switch- That's amazing and creates a lot of interesting stories where people who don't like her are trying to keep her alive. And people who maybe love her are trying to kill her because of the consequences of her dying and this device being around in the universe.

[00:29:59] They never treat it like a dead man switch. It's purpose. It serves no purpose. If you can just kill Georgiou and then you are now the owner of this device. Which can't be activated without her, which is fine because she's dead. But it's also like, it served two purposes at least, right? Which was like, well, if I as emperor were to ever get conquered, like if an invading force

[00:30:24] were to conquer us, then I would lay waste to my own territory so that they have nothing, no spoils of war, which is still like, and I think that that's why she feels bad she created it, right? Is that she's like, I was willing to kill all my own people, which I've already experienced doing at home. And- But ostensibly she made that choice before she ever crossed over. Right. If she had it destroyed in the Terran Empire, which they make a specific point of, it's

[00:30:53] like, so she already had a moral quandary. She did it right after her son killed herself, I think. Like his killing, quote unquote, killing himself because he actually pulled a Wesley is what made her decide. And you can't, I spent the last several years building up an immunity to Iocane powder. I was like, this is my favorite kind of plot hole. I thought you meant Wesley Crusher. Did I say Wesley Crusher? No, no, he said Wesley. Oh, you said Wesley. We're a Star Trek punk.

[00:31:23] No, Wesley Crusher never built up an immunity to poison. Yeah, camera's talking about Princess Bride. I know. He man in blacked it. What did he do? So he's lying there on the floor pretending to be dead. Pretending to cough up blood. Like, good thing she didn't just like incinerate him at that point. When did he get up and leave and no one noticed him? Yeah, I just- Now, here's the thing. Here's a thing. Here's a thing. Abby.

[00:31:50] Abby Summer from First Flight, if you're listening, loved the costumes in this movie. Like, all the way through, loved the badass Dragon Empress gown that was like 60% hologram or whatever it was. The flashbacks are all amazing. Very good. Like, I love the way everybody was dressed. I thought it was funny that Georgia was doing like a pretty all right bad French accent. I absolutely took that as this show taking a shot at Picard.

[00:32:19] Trust me, Cameron, you will get to a moment where you're like, why did they have him do this accent? I thought it was a Matrix reference. Taking a shot at them. The Merovingian? Yes. No, that was actually a very good French accent. That was a French accent. But I especially took us with- I can't- I'm sorry. But yeah, I mean, this movie, it felt like pieces of so many other things, which in a series, again, is fine.

[00:32:46] That's one of the things we love about Strange New Worlds is that it's like, oh, they're doing this plot, but in Star Trek. Oh, they're doing this genre, but in Star Trek. Could you imagine it's Subspace Rhapsody and all those who wander were in the same episode? Yeah, exactly. Lift us where suffering cannot reach. And it was 40 minutes long. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just, I don't mean to come across as like aggressive. I just, I'm sad. Yeah.

[00:33:16] Like Cam said, it's like, oh yeah, we have a Vulcan character. It's like, oh, maybe it'd be cool if we had to see him pretend to be Vulcan. We literally have seen a trailer for season three of Strange New Worlds where they do that. And it's funnier than almost every joke in this movie. Just the five minutes, like, yeah. But you know, guys, maybe we just don't get it because we're not spy experts and this is a spy film. Perhaps we should reach out to some people more knowledgeable who may have sent in a secret transmission.

[00:33:46] Let's go ahead and hear. Hello, Green Shirts podcast. It's Agent Scott beaming in from the Spy Hearts podcast, your friendly neighborhood spy movie reviewers. And, you know, rumor and innuendo has it that there's a Star Trek spy movie out, section 31. Who would have thought we'd live in a world where there are spies and Starfleet members running around on screen at the same time? I never thought we'd be here, but here we are.

[00:34:16] And of course, we're going to be reviewing it over on Spy Hearts podcast. That's dropping on January 28th. And we're even talking to some of the cast from the film, which is dropping on January 31st. I mean, we thought we'd drop it on the 31st to tie in with the title of the film. You could say we planned it. And, you know, we don't want to give too much away. Hopefully the listeners of Green Shirt are going to beam on over to listen to us as well when they finished it. They want some more misfit action in their ears.

[00:34:43] But Cam and I did have some major issues with the film, so much so that we I think we left it wondering if there even should be a film about section 31. And, you know, ultimately our goal on Spy Hearts is to find the best spy movies of all time. And this isn't a spoiler, but I'm not too sure it's making our list of the best films of all time. We'll leave you with that taste. Jolan True listeners, and we'll see you in the shadows.

[00:35:13] Very good. I should say Agent Scott just appeared on the Green Shirt podcast, which is probably why he got us confused. He's in so deep, so deep undercover. He's not sure what's real and what's not anymore. But, yeah, you can hear him discussing another bit of spy work in Star Trek over on Green Shirt, where we talked preemptive strike. That's right. Preemptive strike. The ultimate TNG episode.

[00:35:39] You can hear what our thoughts on those spy jinx were over on Green Shirt. I'm honestly, I don't know what the word is, not surprised. Like, I know that Spy Hearts gentlemen are men of good taste. So, like, I'd be interested to hear their discussions with the cast, because I want to know what they talked about.

[00:36:02] Like, I mean, I would be able to absolutely be able to just talk characters with this cast all day. Like, tell me about your character. Tell me what made you fall in love with them. You know, that kind of a thing. And I would be genuinely... Characters and costumes. Yeah. And I'd be genuinely interested to hear what they had to say. And I, like I said, I want to see more of Casey Roll as Rachel Garrett. I honestly even still want to see more of Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou. I want to see more of Sam Richardson as Quasi.

[00:36:32] I want to see more Omari Hardwick as Alok. I just... I... You know what I'd love to see? What? Is the backstory. The young Georgiou stuff. Again, I thought that actress was amazing. Yeah. And we kind of touched on it before. But it felt very young adult dystopian. And I mean that as a compliment. Yeah. Like it felt like a good teen sci-fi story romance that I could really sink my teeth into. I'd watch the shit out of that. Don't show us the...

[00:37:01] We've seen the end of The Hunger Games. We don't need to see what she had to go through. Show us from... I want to see the next scene. I want to see the... Congratulations, you're the empress now. Mm. Go. Yeah. You know... First off, get your dedicated hand servant here. Maybe give him some medical treatment. And now go rule an empire. Like that would be riveting television. I think that would be fantastic to watch. Miku, Martin O, who played the young Georgiou, crushed it.

[00:37:31] Like the look on her face when she is just burning the hell out of San's face with that sword. I was like, oh, I'm here for this. And it just... I mean it turned on a dime. It really did. Like there was so much there. It was rich. It was like, oh, yes, okay, I'm ready for this. And then it was not... Not that it has to all be that because I get that it's about Section 31.

[00:37:56] And, you know, to Agent Scott's point, like I'm still not opposed to the idea of a Section 31 movie. I don't know that we've gotten one yet. Like this to me didn't have a lot of espionage or a lot of like, well, here's why it always runs up against Starfleet. Or like, because this is just a Starfleet mission. Save the galaxy. That's a Starfleet mission. Like that's what that is.

[00:38:20] You don't need hardened criminals who play outside the rules to save the quadrant. That's what Starfleet does. So, I mean, again, I am going to watch this once it releases because I want Paramount to keep making Star Trek movies. I'm fine with one-offs like this. It's just that I worry that if this is not well-received, we're not going to get any more experiments like this in the Star Trek universe.

[00:38:49] Yeah, but if it is well-received, then maybe no one is going to take the spinning camera rig away from the Star Trek cinematographers. Someone put that thing on lockdown, please. Oh, my God. Glenn, I saw your name there. I was watching the credits. I'm like, man, we've talked to so many of these people. I don't know if I ever want to talk to them about this movie. Or I would love to talk to them off the record. Margie and Orly. I would talk to Margie and Orly because I think it was a good cast. They still killed it.

[00:39:19] I do think it is a solid cast for this film. And it is too bad it's not a series. So I'm like, yep, I would watch a series with all of these characters in it. Absolutely. They are engrossing. I honestly still would watch a series with all these characters in it. Like, if they took everybody, I'm assuming we'd get everybody except Michelle Yeoh because she's in very high demand right now and probably costs a lot of money, which is great. And she absolutely has earned it.

[00:39:49] But even if they made a show out of this crew minus Michelle Yeoh, I would watch it. I have no problem saying that. I would be excited for the first episode. Like, I would absolutely check it out. I just, I think what I'm landing on is that they tried to do too much in not enough time.

[00:40:09] Like, if this were two hours and 10 minutes long, it might have worked better for me personally because there would be more time to sit with these characters and, you know, care about the arcs and this, that, and the other thing. Let it joke land. Yeah. And like... We got a tight 100 minutes including opening and closing credits. Like, man. Did they... Including... It's an hour and a half to the end credits. Yeah. Yeah. Is it... And... Did they give a... Yeah.

[00:40:39] 20% of the way in. I'm like, is this movie going to start? Or what? At what point did you guys realize we were watching a skyline situation? I don't know. By which I mean, like, even though it's very pretty and the effects are really good, at what point did you realize, oh, this is a low budget, small scale film? Right. Because there's a point, like, halfway when they're on the planet, I'm like, oh, we're still on this planet with just these six characters. Yeah. We're still talking about getting this garbage scale going. Yeah.

[00:41:07] It has been a long time we've been talking about this. We're still only discussing trying to figure out who the mole is. Like, oh, we're not going to be a planet-hopping Mission Impossible James Bond style spy movie. I was still happy with it up to that point. Right. And then, like, during that, like, train tube hover platform chase scene or whatever, which, by the way, ends great. Like, shoot it straight up into the air, have a, like, a one-on-one happy with that. Go for it. I can do that all day.

[00:41:37] But, like, as that was happening, I was thinking to myself, oh, this is the set piece. Yeah. Like, because there's not much time left in this movie. There's going to be a big explosion at the end, which, again, I'm fine with. But, like, this is the set piece. Your Star Trek Section 31 espionage movie set piece is a train chase. Like, you're right. It's Mission Impossible. Like, in Mission Impossible.

[00:42:08] Red light! The TGV train chase. I mean... This is so much better than this train piece. Yeah. But, again, I was fine with it until I was, like, checking the runtime. And then I was like, oh, this is the, like, this is one of the peaks. Right? And then the next peak will be at the end. Like... So did any of us not check the runtime multiple times during this movie? Because I was, like, every 10 minutes, I was like, how fast is this going?

[00:42:37] Like, oh, it's not going fast. Got it. I only checked it that time because I was like... Okay. I was like, I remember this not seeming super long when I was looking at it. And it's not that I was like, oh, now I'm bored. It was like, wait a minute. How much is left? Yeah. How much is left? Because, like Cameron was saying, the pacing feels so confusing to me because... So rushed at first. Right. And I'm here for the merry band of misfits. I'm here for the little arguments about stuff.

[00:43:02] I was not super excited about, like, well, any one of us could be the mole. Even you. Even you. Even you. Even you. It's like, yes, that's... Yeah, we get it. We understand, like... And again, I... So, like, a thing that I have said a million times on our show is, like, not everything is for everybody. And that doesn't mean it's bad. Right? So it's absolutely possible that I'm just not the target audience for this.

[00:43:28] Maybe the target audience for this is somebody who's never seen Star Trek, just really likes Michelle Yeo and wants some gorgeous people to look at. And they're like, we're going to bring in all new fans with this. Which, if that's the case, it may end up working on some people. But for me, who's like, you know, dyed-in-the-wool Star Trek fan who's been waiting for it, I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not the audience for this because I can't wrap my head around it, really.

[00:43:54] Jesse, I ended this going, did I just watch one of the worst Star Treks ever? And then I thought, I wonder what Jesse feels like. Maybe I'm just being too hypercritical and too film snobby. And maybe, you know, if you just love Star Trek, this is for you. Jesse, if this film is not for you, it's not for anybody. Okay? This is an objectively bad movie. The editing is, they will teach this film.

[00:44:20] And you know how there's that clip from, there's a Taken 2 clip and a clip from the Freddie Mercury movie, Bohemian Rhapsody, going around that just shows terrible editing. This whole movie is going to be like a masterclass on how you don't edit a film. Yeah. And so, I mean, to the point, guys, why are there two chapter markers and then nothing? Because there's three very clear sections to this movie.

[00:44:47] Because that's clearly how every episode was meant to open in the series. And they just forgot to take it out. Yeah. So clearly, the episode breaks. I kept waiting for the Mandalorian music to come up when they kept flashing the scenes. Like, what are we doing here? You don't need that. Especially because that first shot with the establishing title where it's like James Gunn style location, like Terran Empire was like, oh shit, here we go.

[00:45:15] And then they're like, nope, video game explanation. And I'm like, you already did the good version of that. Like, what? A three minute long out of 90 minutes, three minute video game explanation. I'm like, okay, so they're really counting on new viewers who have never seen Star Trek watching this. Voiced by who? Why would they? I couldn't tell. Oh, I could tell the second time only because of her cameo. Okay. So here's the thing. Okay. But I should have known because she voices the intro to Escape from New York.

[00:45:44] I finished watching this movie. Oh, yeah. Right? I told my wife like, oh, I'm going to watch. It's Jamie Lee Curtis for people who don't know. I'm going to watch the new Star Trek movie. We got our screener. I'm so excited. I did the same thing, Jesse. She's like, oh, okay, great. Like, I'll go do stuff. You let me know when you're done. It'll be fine. And she came back in and she's like, so how was it? And I was like, I don't know what I did with my face, but she went, oh, no.

[00:46:13] I went, honey, Jamie Lee Curtis was in this. And she goes, really? And I was like, and it didn't matter to me. Maybe she's a Borg. We don't know. Like, I don't even care. Not in like in a negative way. Like, I'm happy to have Jamie Lee Curtis play anything. I don't need an explanation. I'm glad she was here. But it was like, it felt so cynical. Like, I know she's in it because she's friends with Michelle Yeoh. I think that's awesome. I'm happy to have it.

[00:46:43] But from like a person watching a movie standpoint, I was like, don't give me Jamie Lee Curtis after that. Well, yeah, if I enjoyed everything, it would have been cherry on top. But I had the exact same feeling, Jesse. I was like, no, do not solely the name of Jamie Lee Curtis right now. How dare you? My experience was kind of the opposite, Jesse, where I was like, honey, I've got the secret screener to the new Star Trek movie. It's a spy movie with Michelle Yeoh. Do you want to watch it with me? And she's like, no, I'm tired.

[00:47:11] I'm sure I'll watch it plenty of times with you. And I was like, okay. And then the next morning, she was like, so how was it? I was like, you chose correctly. Yeah. You chose right. I would have been embarrassed if I had made you stay up late to watch this movie with me. Which is like, I think for me, like it's impossible to look at it from an objective standpoint.

[00:47:29] But I think for me, that's what is what hurts the most is I was like, dude, we've friggin built an independent podcast out of nothing. And we have become very fortunate in the position that we are in. We've made contacts. We've worked really hard to get in touch with people in the industry. We've worked really hard to make a good product for the people that listen to our show.

[00:47:57] And we got all the way to the point where Paramount was like, you know what? Here's the screeners. Here's the, you know, review embargo rules, all that stuff. And I'm like, okay, guys, I'm in. We're in. We're on the inside. We have this access. And I was like, okay. Like, I have never felt that way for any Star Trek thing outside of Enterprise. I'm working on it. And especially not a thing that we have seen a screener for.

[00:48:23] Every time I see a screener, I feel this is so exciting. I feel special. Yeah. I feel special. I'm happy that we get to do this. I'm very excited to talk about this with fans. And right now I'm like, I am worried that people are going to be mad that I was not able to find something to redeem this experience for me. And I, it's because I'm like, I have always said like that there are no bad Star Trek movies because they're all Star Trek movies.

[00:48:52] I literally just said that in our search for Spock review. And now I'm like, ah, maybe I got to wait a couple of years and watch this again or something. Like, I don't know. Cause it's not. I think the more years that pass, the worse this film was going to get. It's not hitting me. The second she said the words chaos goblin, I was like, ah, fuck, we are locked into early 2020s here with the script for this film, like forever.

[00:49:18] But like by way of that Marvel aping of Joss Whedon early 2000s dialogue where it's like, oh, what if everybody was witty and sarcastic? It's like, yeah, you know, that doesn't need to be every character. And again, to that point, Rachel Garrett, Casey Roll, great job. I think she did a very good job. I think she works as a Starfleet character. I think she works as a Star Trek character. I think if only Sam Richardson were being quippy and funny, it would be fine.

[00:49:47] It would work really, really well. But then to have Robert Kaczynski Zeff also doing it, you're like, oh, okay, they're sparring. That's fine. But then you also have Fuzz doing it. And you're like, why is everybody doing this? Also, okay, okay. Where is Nanobot Ireland? And where is Nanobot Georgia USA? And how did two nano creatures meet from that far around the nanoglobe? Because what in the hell?

[00:50:17] Well, I assume that has something to do with the bodies. Why did they get Vulcan bodies? This is the worst spy team ever. With an Irish accent and a Georgian accent. Also, I did not pick up on Quasi's whole backstory about being like, what's his thing? He examines odds. It wasn't until the second view where I was like, oh, this is a thing he does. I just thought he was super anxious or something.

[00:50:45] But they tried to set something up. Yeah, he had anxiety. That was his superpower. But they said he had developed some sort of scientific thing that makes him see odds. And yeah, it was fucking bullshit. And then later on, he literally just goes with his gut and blindly taps a button. Well, that was supposed to be his arc. But yeah, it did not track at all. Now, it didn't track, but it worked. Like the performance made it work for me. I was like, I care about this character more than I care about, you know, Zeph or Fuzz.

[00:51:15] Yeah, he was definitely one of the, yeah. But, and then like this guy, Dada. Like. I like the actor again. I like him a lot. Yes, like the actor. Yeah. Did not care for like the idea of that character. Like, well, okay. I want to get into the plot a little bit before we wrap things up. But because I want to try to keep this somewhat positive. I'm going to lay in my next. I have like three more positive notes. So I'll lay one in every once in a while.

[00:51:45] Georgiou waking up crying after the flashback scene. Great little touch. Like she just kind of wipes away one single tear and then gets into it. Amazing move. Michelle. Great job. What is the plot of this movie, guys? What is going on with this Godson device? Who knows what at what point? Why did they bring the Godson device from the mirror universe into our universe only to then take it back to the Terrans? When did Sun find out about it?

[00:52:13] Why does he steal it when he already had an appointment to buy it? When did he start working with Foz? Why does he pick Foz up instead of just go and take it? He's got it. He's got it. Go to the Terrans. Why are you hanging around trying to pick up save Foz from his undercover unit? Well, and like, did he intercept it or was he the original buyer? He was the original buyer. And if he wasn't, then who was? But that's what I'm saying.

[00:52:42] Like, I was left going. So he intercepted it? And what are his plans with Georgiou? Because like, he tries to have her killed multiple or at least Foz tries to kill her multiple times. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Also, here's another thing I really liked. The half black face, half white face waiter guy. Oh, amazing. Love that character. Give me more of that character.

[00:53:07] Like, have him be on Georgiou's ship and flying around the universe with her crew. Like, I'm totally here for that guy. Yeah. Anytime Michael Sheen from Tron wants to paint half the face black and just play the same character as he did in that movie. I mean, yeah, it's great. It's always fun to watch. The Fifth Element opera singing. I was down for that. Oh, yeah. Huge Fifth Element. I was going to say. Yes. Like, if you're going to steal, steal from the best. I love that. But then we have a fight scene.

[00:53:35] And this is like the action. They tried to do a good job. They shot it terribly, edited it terribly. They did choreography. But then during the fight scene, the face fight scene, the singer just like slowly grabs her mic stand in the background and just like slowly walks off stage. Like, I don't want to be around this. Do do do do do. Do you, people, people around are not reacting to this massive thing where it's like, isn't this a hedonistic club? Wouldn't people be like side betting? Wouldn't they be getting into it?

[00:54:05] Not like politely applauding at the end when it's all over. It just, I don't know, man. It, it felt so discordant. Just so like, what is the tone here? Am I supposed to be laughing or not? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about the teddy bear bomb. I like the teddy bear bomb. I like, I like the nuclear toy. Yeah. I'm fine with that in literally anything else. Why was it here? Well, I don't know.

[00:54:35] Like, why not? Is it to avoid the appearance of, oh, now there are two very dangerous bombs because the other part of that plot is them dealing with a very dangerous bomb. Oh, that's true. Yeah. My problem with that, I like the toy. There's their garbage truck. My problem is Foss literally just told us, oh, I can serve as five in an explosion. Not a problem. Yeah. And then we see him get blown up and we're like, okay, so we know that he's alive. Right. And then they try to drop it like a surprise at the end that he's still alive.

[00:55:03] And you're like, no, he told us he'd be fine. Yeah. Same with the, oh, he can go take over somebody's mech. It's like, yeah, he told us he can do that. I admit, I admit, I didn't pick up on that. Now they did the flashback. And this makes sense in the last episode of your seven episode mini season where you're trying to get a season two. But the vibe I get from this is they're going, throw it all because we're not getting a second movie.

[00:55:30] Like, it feels like they made it because they knew they wouldn't get a chance to make more of it. And it's like, then why did you dangle some of these things? Like, why, why not kill Georgiou? Again, I love Georgiou the character, but like the story you're telling should end with her dying. That would feel meaningful at least. Yeah. Especially because she just fought so hard to stay alive to save these people.

[00:55:59] Then the next step is the sacrifice. You know, like this is the only way you can balance your sins. You killed this guy. You killed your whole family. You killed billions of people when you were the emperor. You've been given a second chance. The way you redeem yourself is offer your life for this. And now I, you know, I hear people out there going, well, Star Trek doesn't need to do the self-sacrifice all the time. I'm like, in the movies it does. Because go watch any Star Trek movie.

[00:56:29] Have you ever told Star Trek that? Yeah. Like, start a movie with a character brutally betraying and murdering her family, including her younger sister. You gotta do something with the character at the end. I'm sorry. Like, you gotta do something with that. Yeah. Not literally be like, nope, we're okay. It's all right. No foul. No harm, no foul. Yeah. And okay, did they set up a romance between her and Alok? There was a little hand touching there. It sure seemed like it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:58] Right at that end scene. Yeah. The end waiting for the Anthony Hopkins character to come in. I'm sorry. Jamie Lee Curtis to come in and brief them. I just keep getting my spy movies mixed up here. Why does this hotel warp away at the end? Why does it turn into a spaceship and warp away all of a sudden? That's like my last complaint. Like, I don't even care. Because like... Only. Now, here's the issue. Here's the issue. Chronologically, is it my last complaint? We saw Federation HQ do that. So it's fine.

[00:57:27] No, that was a thousand years in the actual future. Like, they don't have warping buildings right now. Well, Deep Space Nine had thrusters. I mean, it's fine if it does. Right. It's fine. But why would it do it right then? No, but that's my point, Cam, is like, if I had fuel left in the tank, I'd be like, hey, I have a problem with this. No, I know. But at that point, I'm like, whatever. But the second time I was watching, I was like, I remember something dumb happening here. It's not going to warp. No, that wouldn't make sense. I did warp. I erased it from my memory.

[00:57:55] And like, I will say I really liked the garbage scowl. Okay. I loved the destruction of their ship. Like, that was a well done piece. I really liked it. It kind of caught me off guard. I was like, oh, shit. What's going to happen? And then you're right. They spend like 30 minutes on this junk planet, which I'm okay with. But then they get into a garbage truck ship, which I'm like, okay, heavy cowboy bebop vibes. Very anime. Like, I can deal with this. Like, I like it.

[00:58:23] It's kind of like, oh, what was that movie? It was like a Korean movie. It was like Space Junkers or something. It was a very good movie. I may actually go look it up. But I was like, okay, I'm here for this. I'm here for this. What are they going to do with it? Oh, okay. Mostly nothing. All right. Okay. Whatever. Like, I liked the garbage shield. Didn't end up mattering. Right. Like, that's the ship they opened with, right? The garbage truck. Yeah. The garbage ship. For the logo.

[00:58:54] The Delta logo ship. Which I was like, okay, shouldn't you have done like their cool ship for that and leave the garbage truck for a surprise? But I know the garbage truck is more iconic in the way they... Again, I'm sure it would have meant something when their ship was destroyed in the 10 episode series. Right. When it happened in like season or episode three, right? And we're like, oh, we like that ship. Too bad. Yeah. Yeah. Especially because it's like, okay, but they're not going to keep this garbage scale.

[00:59:22] They are spies for the Federation. Oh, yeah. No. They're going to just give them a new ship. Also, why would that... Like, this is an official Section 31 safe house. Have a better fucking ship, guys. Yeah. Or like better facilities. Like, Section 31 is not wanting for resources, as far as I'm aware. The movie is called Space Sweepers. Highly recommend you go check it out. It's a ton of fun. Like, in the way that I kind of thought this movie would be, where it's like, oh, I don't

[00:59:51] have to think too much, you know? Right. But again, going back to what Agent Scott was saying, like, this is meant to be a spy movie because this is a spy organization. And they're supposed to have like this moral juxtaposition with the upstanding, always do the right thing Starfleet. And we don't get that. We get... Again, it's just a Starfleet mission, which I should be... I should be fine with, and I am not. Like...

[01:00:20] It hurts, you guys. There were like no nacelles in this freaking movie. No! There was no Star Trek in this movie besides Rachel Garrett, who I honestly... It's like, you know, the second you name a character that we already know has a future, we know she's not a mole. We know she's gonna live. Yeah. Like, I appreciate having the like, oh, this would work for us, Rachel Garrett. Except it's like, it doesn't matter, though. It does not matter that she's Rachel Garrett.

[01:00:48] I didn't know she was Rachel Garrett the first time I watched this. So I was very confused about when this was taking place. And then I read about it afterwards. I was like, oh, this is taking place in that time period. Wait, wouldn't this person be older? Why? How have they been... Anyway. So I knew it the second time. And the second time, I was able to track her arc a little more. And because I knew who she was, I was like, oh, I get it. She's trying to become captain. There's all this talk about her like rising up in rank. It's working for me a little bit more now that I know who she is. But I shouldn't have to know who she is. Yes.

[01:01:17] Well, I think you knew and then you forgot because we talked about her in our trailer breakdown. 100%. But so to your point, I believe that puts this about, if I'm guessing, because we aren't really told, I don't think, we're about 20 years, maybe 25 years before the yesterday's Enterprise incident. The battle they were in. On her side, on the Enterprise C side. Right.

[01:01:46] So, I mean, you know, had this ended with them going like, hey, we're pulling you out of Section 31. We're going to post you as a science officer to the Enterprise. And they showed me the Enterprise, I'd be like, that solves a lot of problems for me, movie. I don't even care how cheap it is. Like, is that absolutely fan service? Sure. Am I here for that anyway? Sure. But they didn't do that. They just went, well, don't worry. She's working on it.

[01:02:12] Or have her infiltrate and become a crew member on a ship because it's Section 31 and they infiltrate crews of ships. That's what we see them do again and again and again. Well, they're clearly trying to set this up for more sequels. They're hoping enough to go like anymore. But are they? Or were they setting up for a Season 2 of a miniseries? Because... I mean, that too. But then they're clearly hoping for more movies at the end. That's why the hotel whoops away. It's because they're going into the future.

[01:02:41] That's why they introduced Jamie Lee Curtis. Like, don't you guys want more Jamie Lee Curtis? Watch this a whole bunch so we make another one. No, I want more Casey Roll. Yeah. If I want to watch the Jamie Lee Curtis spy movie, I will just watch True Lies. 100%. Also a movie with still got more sequels. Right? Yeah. I'm... I'm... speechless, I guess.

[01:03:07] Like, I don't have the proper vocabulary to describe why I'm not on this ride. And that is like completely throwing me for a loop. Like, I of all people wanted so bad to be on this ride. And I think there's just not a seat here for me. It's true. I'm going to take solace that I think a lot of people are going to feel the way we do about this.

[01:03:34] Which is good because I felt like I was taking crazy pills for my opinions about Picard season three against a tidal wave of so many others. I'm like, okay, no, at least I know that I'm not insane here. No, I'm... There's not enough fan service in this movie to win those people over. I am not going to say anything spoilery because of Cameron, but I'm right there with you, specifically on season three of Picard.

[01:04:01] And I, like, it's not where I expected to be. Now, to that point, the fan service in season three of Picard totally worked on me more than once. Yeah. But I was painfully aware of what they were doing. And it was like, you are so close to the line right now, Mr. Metallus. Like, let me tell you, I am...

[01:04:27] I have feelings and I hope to maybe come on green shirt and talk about Picard season three. But, like, it wasn't here. Like, the balance wasn't here. And I don't know if that's because we haven't been with Philippa Georgiou for 15, 20, 30 years. Or if it's just because this was Paramount going, we have this much time with Michelle Yeoh.

[01:04:55] She's under contract for this amount of stuff. We got to do it or we're never going to get it done. And that's what makes me feel like they're not trying to set up a sequel, at least not with her. Because... She wanted to do this. She wanted to do this. She wanted it to be a series. Well, yeah. She came back for when they made it a movie. I mean, we don't know what her contract is. She could have a contract for three movies. I mean, it's fair.

[01:05:17] But, like, for me, John, I'm not worried that people are going to feel differently about this movie than we do. I legitimately hope people feel different about this movie than we do. Like I said, because if everybody... We need to get eyes on it. If everybody comes out and they're like, wow, no thank you, then we're done getting Star Trek movies for, like, 10 years. Like, I'm going to have to say I disagree with that all around.

[01:05:47] Because they will take... They will make more movies like this. And this will be the Star Trek we get. We need eyes on strange new worlds. Not this. We need to tell them what is quality and what is not. They need to know when they've put out a piece of shit. And let me... Everyone involved with this movie knows what a piece of shit it is. They've watched it. They've gone to the premieres. They know what they did. They know that they were under budget and told at the last minute to turn a 10-episode series into an hour and 30-minute movie. No one's under any illusions with this.

[01:06:17] And I think we can take... The solace we can take is knowing that people will not watch this like that. They will not make another one. And we won't have to watch them give this treatment to Tasha Yar's Rape Planet in a sequel. Right. I mean... Like they hint at the end of this movie. Yeah. Like, you're gonna... Because I do not want to see how they would handle a Rape Planet. No. No. But I would love to see some Tasha Yar anything. Sure. Like...

[01:06:45] But now I'm like, please don't do that. Exactly. Like, let's meet her grandparents in Strange New Worlds. Like, I... You know what I mean? It's like... I hope that this doesn't give Paramount the idea that people don't want them to try things. I know what you're saying. And it's a Kobayashi Maru. It's a lose-lose. It is. If people don't watch it, they're gonna say, oh, no Star Trek. If people do watch it, they're gonna say, oh, we need to hypercut and jam in as many

[01:07:13] quippy one-liners as we can in a two-minute sequence. Yeah. Right. So I'm... But I also am coming at it from the angle of like, if this is the first thing that somebody watches of Star Trek, I hope that they go, okay, but I've heard it's very good. So I'm gonna check out other parts of the Star Trek universe. Strange New Worlds. Like... Yeah.

[01:07:35] So to your point, a friend of mine who podcasts with Josh on the Quest Me podcast, which is a Star Wars podcast, so I'm hesitant to even bring it up. But he texted our group chat and was like, hey, do I need to watch all of Discovery before I watch Strange New Worlds? And I was like, well, where are you as a Star Trek fan? And he's like, I'm basically brand new. And I was like, then no. Like, if you want, you can just start with Strange New Worlds.

[01:08:04] If you're a completionist, I'd say at least watch the first two seasons of Discovery. Over the next three days, this man watched every episode of Star Trek Discovery all the way through and was texting me the whole time like, oh my God, I can't believe they did this. Whoa, the Klingons look cool. I love the action. I love Michael Burnham. I'm so here for this. This is great. I'm so glad I'm watching Discovery. He watched one through five and now he's gonna start Strange New Worlds. And I'm like, perfect.

[01:08:31] Like, you are gonna get so much out of this because you were willing to take that plunge. And I hope that if this is the first thing that somebody sees of Star Trek, that they are still willing to take the plunge. And that might be the biggest indictment that I'll ever give a Star Trek thing ever. And I legitimately am upset about it because I love this universe and I want it to always have something I can point to for people like, oh yeah, if this is your thing, then here's a great entry point.

[01:09:00] I don't know that this will ever be the first thing I point somebody to. Oh, I can't imagine who. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as much as I was not looking forward to rewatching this, I was very much looking forward to this conversation, guys, because this is the type of movie you watch and you need to... What do they do in the spy world at the end? Debrief. I need to debrief this so hard. So thank you guys. I'm glad to know I'm not crazy.

[01:09:27] I'm glad to know our patrons are here able to debrief with us. I'm assuming a lot of people are going to need this. So maybe we'll get some new patrons. Maybe some new people like saw our ad on social media saying, hey, do you need to go like commiserate with some other Star Trek fans about this movie? Come here. Welcome. Thank you for coming. We can continue the conversation on the discord, I'm sure. And legitimately, if you're listening to this as a patron and you're like, these guys are totally off their rockers. This movie was great.

[01:09:56] It was a lot of fun all the way through this, that, and the other thing. Please tell me and give me something because I am absolutely willing to turn around on this movie if I can understand it. Like, to your point, I felt like as I was watching it, I was like, is there something about this I'm missing? Because it is not working for me. And that's not, I'm not here to tell you, you shouldn't like this movie.

[01:10:24] If you like this movie, please share your love with me, share your love with all of us, because I want to know that version of this experience. Genuinely, I would love to know that version of this experience. And I hope that you understand as a supporter of Open Pike Night, that that's what we're here for. We're here to have the conversation. This time we couldn't really accept calls from anybody who hasn't already seen the movie because we want this to come out on the same day as the movie.

[01:10:50] We want you to be able to watch it and then go to your Open Pike Night patron feed and listen to a podcast that you trust talk about this. And, you know, not that I feel we need it, but I will say, I think we're largely one of the most positive Star Trek podcasts that there is. We really dig deep to find the stuff that we love. And if the three of us have dug this far and just kept hitting clay, I feel like that should

[01:11:20] tell you something about the movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I was thinking like, okay, because when I started watching, I'm like, all right, I'm going to watch it like somebody who's never seen Star Trek before. I'm like, well, if they've seen this, they've still never seen Star Trek before. Um, or a spy film or spy film. And it's, it is too bad. It's too bad because we do want it to work. I mean, if you're listening to this on the day it comes out tomorrow, we're going to release

[01:11:48] an episode on the main feed where I say flat out, I like search for Spock better than I like wrath of Khan. Like we love Star Trek and we aren't here to nitpick it apart, but man, there's gotta be, we know there's, there are 950 better episodes and movies of Star Trek than this. I'll watch generations again and again. I don't, I don't know when I would come back to this film in the future.

[01:12:16] I will only push back on that by saying there are absolutely episodes of Star Trek. I will not watch again. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. But there are no other movies of Star Trek where I'm like, I don't need to own this. Like I will probably not buy this on physical media and that will be the first time I have ever not purchased a Star Trek movie on physical media. If it's even available. I mean, Paramount to their minimum credit is pretty good about at least giving physical

[01:12:45] releases to things. But yeah, I'm like, look, I gotta buy the box set for Lower Decks. Okay. I gotta buy Strange New Worlds Blu-rays as they come out. I'll probably get the box set of Discovery because right now I only have the first two seasons physically. So like I, I got stuff to spend money on and you know, I maybe, maybe they could give this as a bonus disc with Discovery. I'm sorry. We should probably, we should probably let it go. I don't mean to delve into the negative, but I agree with Cameron. Thank you guys.

[01:13:14] Both of you, John and Cameron for giving me an outlet for catharsis on this because I was like, what is happening? And why is it happening to me? Oh man. I mean, five grimace faces. That's what I raised this. Yeah. Five grimace faces. Yeah. I mean, I think for me, the biggest crime is that it's like, it's fine.

[01:13:43] Like it's, it's as good as a movie you would watch on Netflix. Like it's not. I would watch any TNG episode except for Shades of Grey before this. I would go back knowing what I know now. I would go back and stand in line for as long as I stood in line to watch episode one. I would, I would do it all over again, knowing exactly what I'm about to see. Then just sit down and watch this movie again.

[01:14:12] I mean, I was like 10 when that came out. So I was fine with it. Like I'll be honest. I have not watched any of the first three Star Wars movies since I was about 10 or, you know, 13 by the end of it or whatever. I haven't watched them again, but when I was 10, they were fine. Like I had a lot of fun with the pod race and Darth Maul, even though he's criminally underused. Hey, do all the fates rules. It's top tier. Yeah. It's top tier. When we were 19, it was a little rough, like walking out of that theater.

[01:14:41] I remember walking through the parking lot and I didn't, you know, that took some processing. I remember walking through the dark parking lot at 2 AM being like, I just watched my first Star Wars movie in the theater for the first time. Why do I feel weird? What's this feeling in my stomach? I don't understand. You know what? To bring it back to a place where I feel good about it, I would still watch this again before I watched The Rise of Skywalker again.

[01:15:07] I'm comfortable saying that because I do not understand Rise of Skywalker even a little bit. But like Rise of Skywalker has the Kylo Ren little shrug moment when he pulls the lightsaber out, which makes it infinitely better than this movie. No, it doesn't because his stomp when he turns on his lightsaber in The Last Jedi is infinitely better than the entirety of The Rise of Skywalker. Well, I mean, that's fine. That doesn't counteract myself. Also, Luke facing off against all the ad-ads.

[01:15:35] The Last Jedi is amazing. Oh, there's The Last Jedi. That's right. I'm sorry. Rise of Skywalker. I'm glad we're all on the same page for that, too. Yeah, 100%. All right. All right. Well, yes, please tune in to our pod crawl segment for Search for Spock. We've got a fun surprise guest call in there. Check out all the pod crawl episodes. I'm sure they're all great. Yes.

[01:16:04] And go watch Space Sweepers on Netflix. You will see what I mean. You're going to have a ton of fun with that movie. It might make you angry at this movie, but that's okay. You'll feel better when it's over. Yeah. And Mission Impossible 1. Yeah. And Mission Impossible 1 because, man, did this movie just say, that was a good movie. Let's do that. Let's do that.

[01:16:25] Even a big budget star-studded action spy movie directed by Brian De Palma is somehow got it right. Like, where this movie was like, felt schizophrenic in some ways. Like, you guys, this has been tough. Yeah. I would watch Snake Eyes by Brian De Palma again before I'd watch this movie. Watch any Nicolas Cage movie again. Yes.

[01:16:54] All right, patrons. Thank you so much for your support over these years. Years we've had some of these loyal patrons. Thank you all very much. We could not do this without you. And we... Man, hey. It's almost February. We're like down to one hand's worth of months on the countdown before we get new Strange New Worlds, hopefully. So, the long wait is actually kind of getting to be a shorter wait. So, man, make sure you keep listening.

[01:17:24] Be sure to give us a call. Like, you know, you can send me your calls to the email address that kept popping up on our screeners. OpenPike at gmail.com. Or go to openpike.com. And Cameron, if our patrons haven't listened to Green Shirt yet, what's about to happen? Well, you're going to tune in for our penultimate episode on Preemptive Strike with SpyHard's Agent Scott later this week.

[01:17:53] And hear us talk about that. And then two weeks from there, you will hear me talk about my reactions to all good things, the last episode of TNG I will have ever not seen. I think that sentence made sense. Discuss that episode. And then, you know, there will be lots of frivolity and fun to be had. And then we'll talk about the movies and Picard. So, we've still got some time to go. But TNG is almost complete.

[01:18:18] Now, as a fan of Green Shirt, are you watching parts one and two as just one thing? Like one supersized episode? As it aired. Yep. Awesome. That's going to really do well for my soul. Oh, good. Good, good, good. I can't wait. No idea what that episode is about. It's about all the good things. Oh, good. Great. Yeah.

[01:18:42] So, there's a scene where Georgiou leans in and tells Dad to know, you know, what she did to the general to make him talk. And the dad to know just starts spilling his guts. But we don't know what she said. Pretty sure she just told him she was going to make him watch this movie over and over Clockwork Corner style. I thought she was saying the same thing Bill Murray said to Scarlett Johansson in Boston Translation. Probably. Probably. My other complaint there is that one of them says Dada and one of them says Data.

[01:19:10] And I was like, wait, are they doing an Android thing? Oh, no. It's just a weird pronunciation. I have nothing left, you guys. Yeah. Just go watch season five of Discovery again. It did everything this movie wanted to do better. All right. Well, it has been a very long night. And we hope you all enjoyed this episode at least as much, if not more, than you enjoyed Section 31.

[01:19:39] I'm pretty sure it's going to be that you enjoyed it more. But we have got to go. Man, we're just going to go get a drink to get this bad taste out of our mouth. So be sure to tip your servers. Be sure to clean up after yourself. You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here.