Jordan Canning Interview - "Space Riders 4 Lyfe!"

This is Jordan canning and you're listening to open pipe night. All right, now listen a little more intently. All right now now try it like how a Vulcan would listen

Is this thing on? Hello, hello welcome to open mic night the strange new world podcast where your personal logs are the prime directive. I'm your host John T bolds. here tonight with a wonderful guest and callers waiting in the wings to ensure that remediation has been completed properly. Joining me tonight are my co hosts first up the man who embraces both his dual selves the hardcore Star Trek fan and the doubtful enterprise naysayer, Jesse Bailey. Look, it's just that now that I've seen how a prequel can look, it's hard to really wrap my mind around how that prequel does look. And the man who wouldn't hesitate to launch himself into another dimension to make sure his co hosts will be there for recording, host of green shirt newbies trek through next generation, Cameron,

that just gave me the idea. Star Trek and 3d putting that down for a genre of strange new worlds is tackling. Oh, Paramount, sitting at the red and blue glasses to everyone. And

as if that weren't enough, we'd like to welcome returning guests to the open bike night stage. You may remember her from our coverage of the season two charades episode, but we are merely a blip on the screen of her directing credits, from Star Trek to shits Creek from Fraggle Rock to family law. Welcome to director, writer and producer Jordan canning. Hello.

Welcome back for joining as you thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's, we got to spend 10 minutes on a press junket with you last time. And now that we've had a chance to talk more behind the scenes with Laura, Michael Dana, so many people involved with this episode where we are so happy to have you back. Joining us on the open pipeline stage.

Yeah, that first time was like a speed date. Now we can really deep dive. Exactly.

Exactly. Which I mean, you know, we got to get to know somebody's history. So let's start at the beginning of your career.

Sure, you bought the whole thing?

So how did a young Jordan get into filmmaking and storytelling?

Ah, um, well, let me think so I grew up around film a little bit. My mom was a production designer. And so when I was a kid, I hung out on some film sets caught the bug a bit that way, I think, but didn't really think about it, as you know, a viable career path until after college, I went to university for creative writing and sociology and anthropology. And when I moved back home after I graduated, I sort of thought, okay, you know, what am I going to do? Maybe I'm going to be, I was really into photography at the time. And I thought, okay, maybe I'll go do journalism or media or something. Then I did this thing called the the first time filmmakers program, which was at our Film Co Op in Newfoundland, which is where I'm from, which was, it's an amazing program, the co op is an amazing place in general, but they had a great program that essentially, you could apply with like a 10 minute or less script, and they would connect you with, you know, a mentor and a volunteer crew, and you could shoot your first film on Super 16 film. Yeah, I'm dating myself a little bit there. But But yeah, and I just fell in love with it. I adapted like a short story that I'd written in college. It's very first film, you know, a couple having a fight about something, but the fights really about something else. So it's shot in black and white. And yeah, it just, it was a real one of those moments. It sounds kind of cheesy, but it was one of those moments where in the in the middle of making it. I mean, I didn't know. There was lots of things, obviously, I didn't know. But all the pieces that had to come together to make a film, you know, writing it, preparing it, figuring out where you were going to shoot who you're going to cast, you know, all of the details that really hooked me, I really loved that kind of multitasking, creative challenge. And, yeah, I got bit by the bug on that short film that was like 2006, I think, and then that's all I really wanted to do. So I just I kept making short films. And I started simultaneously I started working in the film industry in in St. John's. I worked on this really kind of cheesy ghost stories show it was called Legend and lore of the North Atlantic. So go, there was fairies there was lighthouses

sounds like something me and my wife would stay up late watching, you know

if you could find it online, I bet it actually would be very fun to watch. It was cheesy, but it was very fun and very creative. And I started, you know, writing some of the narrator vo was the original job I had. And then I got to start shooting some of the interviews with like, the ghost expert. So cool. Yeah. And then I got to then I started directing some of the reenactments, which was where the real magic happens. Yeah, some real goodies there. And then yeah, the basically the next sort of three years was just me trying to figure out how to make more work. And you know, making a short film for no money, getting a little grant making it for a little bit more money, working as a script supervisor. So getting to watch a lot of other directors work and working with DPS and actors, and just getting a bit more of a lay of the land of, you know, film and TV in general. And then eventually, yeah, in 2009, I moved to Toronto to do this program here called the Canadian film center, which is sort of like our AFI directors lab here. And then I stuck around in Toronto, made a web series made it fun web series, you guys might like actually was called Space writers division Earth. And it was like a kind of Power Rangers spoof with like, really incredible comedians here in Toronto. very silly, but very fun. And yeah, made a couple of features, made a couple more short films. And then yeah, got into TV 2016, and sort of have been mostly just doing TV ever since not, only by choice, I'm still dying to make another film. But TV has been great and wonderful and fruitful. So I'm happy to be working and getting to make, you know, make as much work as I do. And working with such awesome people and working on such incredible shows, like strange new worlds

amazing shows. But let's let me go back a bit back back to the very first thing you talked about what what sort of sets were you on? What sort of movies did your mom work on?

Do you guys know where Newfoundland is? Basically, essentially, okay. Yeah, East. Yeah, it's the easternmost province of Canada is an island in the Atlantic Ocean. And my, you know, the, it's the film industry there comparatively, is relatively young, sort of started in the 80s, maybe the late 70s, I think, the early 80s. And my mom was kind of in that first wave of like, you know, the first crew, she was like, one of the first production designers working with her buds, who were producing and directing and making films. So she worked on a couple of independent films there, there was one called Finding Mary March. And then the one that I kind of remember hanging out on because they shot some of it in our house, or maybe the green room was in our house was called Secret nation, which was a kind of cool, sort of conspiracy esque drama about Newfoundland. This is real inside baseball, Newfoundland, Canadian history here. But the you know, Newfoundland, joined Canada in 1949. And the vote was 49 to 51. And there is like, ongoing sort of, you know, conspiracy that it was not necessarily above board. And so this film was a great film, written by Mike Jones and starring all sorts of amazing Newfoundland actors. About that, and about like, discovering the conspiracy behind it, and whatnot. So I was like, a little, I don't know, maybe eight year old, kicking around hanging out in the green room eating craft, like talking to all the actors being like, this is great. What, what's going on? I like this,

did any of it? Was it surreal at all to you? Or did you kind of feel like you understood movies more than your friends? Like, you're like, No, this is how it's that's not real blood. It's just ketchup.

I don't know. Uh, you know, it's hard to remember if, like, how that translated, I think I just really loved how many people were around. And I liked the community aspect of filmmaking, I still do I love a crew I love I'm an only child. So I think I was just always sort of seeking out, you know, standing siblings or something. But I, I loved how many people needed to all work together to make this one thing happen, you know, and how all the departments had all of these very specific tasks, and they all had to be in unison and on the same page, and, and, and, you know, working towards this central vision to Yeah, to make this one piece of art that then would like live on forever, you know, so I still love that I still am always, you know, when I'm, there's obviously there's stressful stuff about shooting and all sorts of crazy stuff. But when I'm there when we, you know, pulled it together, and I'm watching the monitor, and we're shooting a scene that we've all worked so hard together, like I always just have a big grin on my face. Like I just, I love seeing it all come together. their

sounds a lot like the crew of a starship. Yeah,

it will it is what it feels like. It feels like a ship. Yeah.

And you were absolutely right. I would really like to check out space writers. I'm gonna see if I can find that and

oh, it's it's there. You can find it on my Vimeo. I've got the whole thing. Oh, sweet. Oh, yeah, it's very funny. Yeah, evening sorted. Yeah, definitely met you get some chips watch Space riders. The villain is this amazing villain named Orson is played by an amazing actress named Kayla Lorette. There's a there's an evil person called the vicious mist. That's just a fog. And then there's the moon monster who's like Kyle Dooley in this like, ridiculous. Like, kind of Chewbacca ask cheap Dollarama type suit. You're gonna love it. It's fairly simple.

We are now I can tell ya interview today. Watch along let's.

So did you have any favorite directors growing up? Or after starting to make short films that? Yeah,

I someone kind of asked me. I mean, if someone always asked you like, oh, what's your favorite movie? Or like, what's the movie that sort of inspired you? And weirdly, I just rewatched it a couple of weeks ago, because this came up. And I said, the movie that I think really inspired me at this seminal time where, you know, I was I was sort of thinking about film in a different way. Now, I watched so much so many movies when I was a kid, but not in a way that I was sort of thinking, oh, I want to do this. I was just I loved movies. And but I remember watching Magnolia by PT Anderson and being very, sort of blown away by it. And I rewatching it a couple of weeks ago, I was like, Oh, this I think this is because it was at this time where I'd never really seen a movie with so much kind of visual style. It was like we got a Steadicam, we got big long shots, we got you know, they're all singing now. And like so much energy and kind of like such a dynamic film. And it's, you know, it's a bit over the top. In some ways, when you watch it, you're like this three more than three hours. But it just felt so kind of indulgent and creative. And I think it just caught me at the right time where I I sort of saw film in a different way. It wasn't just the kind of the story that I was drawn into in the characters, which I was, but it was the technical wizardry of this film that really, I think I recognized it for the first time of like, oh, there's a real there's a technicality to this film that stands out and is exciting to me.

Yeah, it came out when I was in film school. And I just remember like, it's definitely one of those films that appeals to people who are learning about film and like really getting into it for like, maybe the first time like, that came out Fight Club Being John Malkovich. Like the turn of the century was just like, amazing.

Daughter. Yeah, yes. Yeah. And I didn't go to film school. So I think I was just sort of like catching up a little bit and being like, wow, what?

What is this? What

are they doing? How do you do this? I want to try this. Yeah, really

makes you think past like just watching as a viewer and going like, oh, there's something here. There's artistry here. Yeah, yeah, they're

going for something. They're really like, trying out some stuff. They're throwing a lot of stuff at the wall. And like, some of it sticks. Some of it's wacky, but you know, you got to admire the the swings they're taking Yeah.

Was your mom really supportive of your decision to go into filmmaking? Or was she like, no, don't

do it. Now,

both my parents, both very have always been very supportive, very fortunate that way, both. My mom worked as she was an artist. She's still an artist. She's an artist again now. But she worked as an artist. And then she kind of got into film and was a professor. And so really had like, kind of this very creative, piecemeal career that I always saw is like, Oh, well, that's how you can have a career. It's not it doesn't look one way. It's not a nine to five job. It's, it's being self employed. My dad was self employed as well is self employed still. So that kind of, you know, make your own schedule, find your own gigs was always kind of how I saw work. So yeah, they've both they both been always very supportive. And my mom was the production designer on a couple of my short films. My dad invested in my first feature film. Good. Thank you very much, dad. And so yeah, they're, they love it. They're great.

And then how did you go from those short films and those those indie films into TV? Was that something you you sought after you got an opportunity? Um,

you know, back that I remember a very specific time, I think, I guess I'd finished the CFC. I was still in Toronto I had, and there was this middle time where I was like, What am I doing? I gotta go back to school and do something I gotta be like, I think I went as far as like applying to do environmental architectures I would I did, I can't even remember something where I was like, I gotta work in a real job and change the world. Because I was just like, What am I going to do? I'm just gonna like, Direct TV. Like, that's not a thing. Because at the time, it didn't feel this is before, again, dating myself. This is before the golden age of television, like it was sort of 2000. And, I don't know, 10 or something like kind of before, like before, Netflix before, that really became a thing where it was really exciting. Besides like, HBO and stuff, it didn't. And we weren't I was in Canada. So it wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to direct an HBO show. It's like, what am I going to direct here? And how am I even going to get into it in the first place? So no, I didn't back then. Think about, it took me a while to think about directing as a job, I say, still something new to me to think about it, it was, you know, direct making movies was what I wanted to spend my time doing. And I that's what I spent all my time doing. Or I would work a job so I can make some money. So I could go make another film. And, you know, I wasn't getting paid to be a director, I was getting paid to be a script supervisor or to write something or to get a grant. And so really the only way to make money as a director, at least, I mean, it's not the only way. But it is a viable way to do it in Canada, especially is to work in TV. And once I kind of did break into TV, and I realized, like, oh, I learned so much on my first TV episode. And I also got to direct I didn't have to wait three and a half years and get a grant and like convince a bunch of people to do something with make a film with me, it's like, I can actually be paid to direct which is what I love to do most in the world. And I get to do it on all sorts of different types of projects. And it doesn't have to take three years of my life, I can go do one episode of a show and be done in three weeks and meet all these great people and try a bunch of new stuff. And then, you know, hand over the episode and move on to the next thing and and it was a shift when I started to recognize like, oh, there's there's something really wonderful about working in TV, both film and TV give you different things. But ultimately, they're feeding into the same set of skills and if you love directing and love being on set, the way to do it regularly is to work in TV you know films takes so long to get off the ground. But TV you know, you can work on four or five, six shows a year and really keep honing your your skill set. And yeah, just getting to do what you love. So yeah,

well yeah, we want to talk about your TV career. And let's kick that off with platys question.

Hello, Jordan. This is Matt aka platinum three big fan of open mic night and a big fan of your episode you did for stranger worlds absolutely love charades. I'm a huge sitcom fan. So to have a sitcom Star Trek episode is just awesome. So usually when I call in I'm talking about an episode and I talked about my hits shifts and misses from the episode. Although I know that sounds negative I usually turn it all positive but I got three questions for you hits Star Trek excluded what's in production you worked on that you knew was going to be an amazing one just from your time behind the camera on set and then it turned out to be So shifts have you ever been part of any production where you just knew it was? Maybe not so amazing pay it was paying the bills got to do it. And Mrs. What is a show that you love and wish you could have directed episodes of but it just never worked out due to scheduling conflicts or you never even calling or trying or it being anything that you'd normally do or maybe it just ended and was cancelled than the show passed on and into an insert any other reason? Was there something you missed that you really wish you could have directed? Thanks a lot for all your work on Star Trek platinum three out

hits shits and misses. I love it. Yeah, I want that on T shirt. Great question. Okay, so hits other than stranger worlds, which, you know, working on that. Obviously, you were just like this is the most special show in the world, I would say Fraggle Rock Fraggle Rock I got I worked on season one. And then I came back on season two as the producing director that's coming out in a couple of weeks the new season, but it's not out yet. But it was yeah, a really special magical experience. I think anyone who's worked who worked on that show would would agree but it was, you know, so creative and so amazing to go into that world. Seeing all those sets, the sets are gigantic and then you know you go into the creek You're shopping you're working with like, just people at the top of their field, the most amazing puppet builders and designers. And, you know, the production team was incredible. And so it really as we were making that I was like, This is really good. I can't wait for everybody to see this and just, you know, the writing was so great. The songs are amazing, the puppeteers are amazing. Henson, you know, is just the best and so yeah, that that's a big hit. I knew that going in because it just had so much joy. We had so much fun making it and I knew that it was translating to the to the show every every day was like, you know, magic. Did you have a character? I mean, God, I love them all red, obviously, I adore red. And Karen, who is the puppeteer behind red is like a genius. I love Wembley, Wembley, so silly. Uber, you know, his anxiety really, it speaks to me. And, you know, I love them all mochi and Gobo they're also dreams but yeah, probably read in a tie for read and, and, and Wembley misses No shit, sorry, it shifts, um, you know, I have been very fortunate to never work have worked on a show where I was like, this is just to pay the bills, I don't, I don't like this, you know, I, I've always kind of been very fortunate to really, you know, whether it's like a show I would watch or not, it's something that I am able to find my way into it, and find something I love about it, or an ad, there's an actor and and I love or the crew is great. I did work on a show that I loved so deeply, it was a wonderful show. And it unfortunately only go one season. And it was just it was a it was a hard it was just a hard shoot, it was a it was under resourced. And it was like gun to your head every day, like trying to just make it work. And that was a bummer. Because, you know, the material was so good. The people involved like the the actors, the the to show runners, the, the DP and they were all amazing. But sometimes you just like, there's only so much you can do with your hands tied behind your back. And it's that's just a bummer. If you get kind of angry and because a you're tired, and you're stressed out, but you're also just like, why are we doing this, like, why we everybody worked so hard to get here. And now you're not giving us enough time for any of us to do our jobs properly. So that that's stressful. And I do try I mean, sometimes you can't avoid it or you don't know that that's where the show's gonna go. But I have learned to try to suss out shows that may be challenging in that way and try to avoid them a bit. Because it's just, it's heartbreaking really. It's like when you care about something, and then it's not given the kind of resources it needs to do it properly as a bummer. And then misses. I mean, God, there's a zillion shows I would have killed to work on the most recent one that comes to mind, I think is our flag means death, like I loved our flag means that I got deeply, you know, deeply obsessed with it over, you know, the two seasons. And I was, you know, I was like pushing my managers, I was like, You got it. Like, I was trying to think like, how am I going to get on season three, like there's got to be some way that then you know, got canceled. So, because I always come back, I know there is like a big movement to try to get it to come back. And maybe it will, which would be incredible. But that is a show I would have loved to have worked on I love the writing and the world of that. And also, I just love a comedy that exists in a sort of elevated reality a bit you know, something with with a lot of you know, great production design and, and also just an amazing ensemble cast. And yeah, I would have loved to have worked on that show.

I was really surprised when that got cancelled because every time an episode would come out, like all of the social media for just the next week was like tons of people happy and loving it and I'm like, What is going on at Warner Brothers?

i Great question. Yeah.

Well, what about going forward any shows that are still on or on the horizon that you'd love to work on? What's your bucket list?

Bucket List shows what am I watching right now? I mean go God guys I'm watching a lot of love is blind six right now so I don't want to work on that. I don't know I mean, it'd be fun to work on something like I haven't seen it yet. But you know like, Tiger what TT is making a new time bandits, where it's like that. I mean that working on something of that level would be amazing. Like Star Trek. Stranger worlds really does kind of spoil you a little bit It died. Like I finished my episode a month and a half ago. And I was like, well, it's all downhill from here. Not gonna top that one that was great. So a show that has that kind of world building. It really excites me where you're really like, Okay, how are we going to pull this out? That's why I loved Fraggles so much. That's why I love strange worlds because you're, you know, the props and the sets and the costumes. Like, it's like a new. It's a new, you're inventing new things every time. It's not just like, what shirt from Old Navy should they wear? Yeah, I would love to work on a show that has a really kind of rich world to dig into.

I love that. I can see that. Let's let's jump into Jim's question. Yeah, we

had lots of calls tonight. So we'll go through a few of them here. Here he is Jen OpenPilot.

This is Jen season girl. I have two questions from the scanning. I'm sorry to say that I only know you via Star Trek strange new worlds. However, these open pipe interviews have been leading me to go digging and viewing what's new to me movies and shows so that I have a place to start of your previous work. Which are you most proud of? And why? Of course, I'll have to check out Fraggle Rock too. I love that show when I was a kid. My other question, I've asked this a couple times. And it's received interesting responses. What's a question you've always wanted to be asked, but never have? And what's the answer? Thanks for joining the Star Trek family and hopefully we get to see more of you. Yeah, that's it. Oh,

my God. That's such a good but hard question. Second question. Yeah. I'm dying to know what other people have answered to that. I'll start with the easier one. Okay, so a show that or previous work that I'm really proud of. I made a short film. I mean, look, I there's something I love about everything that I've ever made. But I made a short film many years ago, called not over easy, which is like a five minute mostly stop motion animation film about these two eggs going through a breakup. And it's completely wacky as you can imagine it. Me and I and my partner at the time, Jodi wrote this script. And then it's the first film I made in Toronto, I moved to Toronto for the CFC. And then my roommate and collaborator, Sam price Phillips, who was my one of my dearest friends, and also was my DP on many shoots that I did. We were roommates. We lived in this loft together. And basically like the two of us, and Mike, the animator, we shot it in this, this our apartment we built, we had all the sets in this apartment, and we spent like, a month, you know, photographing these egg puppets, doing all sorts of crazy stuff. And I I am still so proud of that film. It's really funny. There's no dialogue in it. There's a real, the ending is great. And it's still something I watch where I'm like, you know, sometimes where you read something you wrote a long time ago or something you made, you're just like, I can't even remember being that person. Like, I love that my brain did that. I don't, I can't really transport myself back to remembering how to like come up with something like that. But I'm glad that I did a past version of me did do that. You can also watch that online. It's it's very silly as well. So a question I've always wanted to be asked. Hmm, this is a hard question. It's like really having to dig deep. This is not a question I've always wanted to be asked but you talk about something like talking about things that I've become weirdly obsessed with in my older age like our flag means death is one of them. But two years ago actually when I was shooting Fragale I got really into these this series of books that carry on trilogy Simon snow. These three books by this amazing author named rainbow Raul, and I have never and I wouldn't have just like, I don't know 39 or something. When I read these, they're ya they're they're essentially ya although I think they're for everybody. And I have never gotten so into a set of stories like that before, to a degree where I was rereading them right away. And it again, it opened up this world. It's like essentially, it's kind of like amazing. It's like kind of like queer Harry Potter sort of if like, Draco was a vampire and and Tim and Harry fell in love but It's so good. And I want to talk about it more. I want to be like, I tried to bring it up and you know, not that many people want to talk about it. But I, you know if anyone wants to talk about Simon's No, I'm here for it. I'll I've read them. Many, many times.

There was an adaptation of that. Would that be something you immediately told your manager go get? Or would you want to, like maintain a careful distance? No,

I will. I don't want to maintain any care. I'm not kidding. If rainbow REL is listening to this. Please. I, I would do anything to work on an adaptation of that. Yeah, that is my truly my dream project. Yeah,

we'll see what we can do.

I mean, she just she built it. You want to talk about amazing world building like, it's, it's just a world I want to spend so much time in. So whether it ever gets adapted to anything. It exists and will always exist. And I'm thankful for that. But yes, I would do anything to work on that. I

think that's a great answer that question. Yeah. Well, let's just jump into Mercy's Colvin. Hey,

guys, it's Marcy again. From idle right podcast. I heard that you have Jordan canning on today. And I know that this is a strange new worlds podcast. And it's all about charades today. But I was hoping to ask a couple of other kinds of questions. I have been extremely happy in recent years that I've seen a lot more women directors, women editors, just women in the behind the scenes kind of setting in Hollywood and in TV shows, because I've been a longtime media consumer. So I'm just wondering if she does anything distinctly different from her male counterparts in the role of director, I don't really know all the ins and outs of being a director, but maybe she could talk about how she does things and how she might do things a little bit differently. And then also, I'd like to ask a question about shits Creek. I know she did some directing for that show. And I can't even imagine how amazing that must have been to work with all those improv actors. And well, one of my favorite actors of all time is Catherine O'Hara. So what was it like kind of navigating working with people who do a lot of improv? And how do you know when to stop the improv? Anyway, thank you so much for answering my questions.

Great questions. Yes, I mean, I'm very happy to have so many women working in film too, because I get to work with them. You had Dana on the show, Dana's you know, one of my favorite editors have ever worked with being a director, you don't really get to work with other directors. So it is one of those things where you don't get to often watch how somebody else does it. I got to when I was a script supervisor, before I was working as a director, I got to work with a lot of directors coming up in that department. So I worked on a show where I think there was like, you know, nine, nine different directors different, you know, different episodes, and all of them. Were men and a wide variety. Well, no, not a wide but not a wide variety of men. They were all white guys, but a variety of ways of how they behaved on on set and how they ran their cruise. And and I did really get a sense of like, I mean, we all did on the cruise, like which ones you really wanted to work with and who you really liked their their working style. And which ones you were like, Why is this? How does this guy have this job? This is not he's not doing a good job. He's lost the faith of the crew. He's, you know, not great with actors. We're not making our days why does this guy have this job? How did he get this job? And I remember, I mean, this was in like, 2009. So I had just made some short films. I hadn't even made a feature yet. But I do remember sort of watching and being like, I really think I could do this. I think I wouldn't do that. And I would not do that. Okay, cool. So, but once you start working as a director, it's not like, you get to see how other people do it. You hear stories, and people will be like, Oh, I love I love working with you about this, or they tell you a horror story or whatever. So, but but in terms of what I do differently than men, I mean, I who knows but the way I like to work on set is just, you know, I'm very communicative. I approach everything with a sense of humor, and I don't like to, I don't ever kind of like yell or you know, let the stress kind of really weigh us down on the day. I just want to feel I'm empowered and supported when I'm working, you know, I want to believe like, I want to feel trusted to do my best work, I want the actors to be able to trust me, I want the crew to trust me, I want them to believe like, I know what I'm doing, I'm steering the ship, I'm going to need all of your help. But I got this, you know, and I mean, it makes me feel very good, just as Jordan on set when things are, whether they're running smoothly or not, to feel that trust to feel an actor kind of like listen to a direction I give, and, you know, take it in and say, Okay, I got it and then go do it. Like, that makes me a better director. And I think that that goes both ways, I think they can feel that I am giving myself and opening myself up and listening to them and trying to make you know, make an environment for all of us to just feel kind of supported and and trusted to do our work. So that that's kind of all I can do and and I just try to keep things fun. Like I'm I'm kind of a silly dork on set, too. Like I you know, I like making people laugh. I like keeping the energy up. I like keeping the pace up. And everybody's working so hard. You know, you don't want the kind of dark cloud to come over where we start to feel like this isn't fun anymore. No, it's fun. We got aliens. We got, you know, all sorts of crazy stuff going on. Like we should be just having fun, even though it's really hard. You're playing pretend for a living. Exactly. Yeah. So that's, that's how I try to approach it. And I just I love being on set and directing. I really do feel most like myself when I am doing that job. So it feels good. And I want to keep sort of chasing it. So yeah, sounds

like you're making a genuine and successful if I may say effort to avoid the people on your productions, having that feeling you mentioned where you're like, why are we doing this? Like? Yes, because then they lose track of what they're doing. Yeah,

you work together and then you make a decision. And then you run with the decision.

Just like a good Starfleet captain. Yeah, damn right. What about shits Creek? Oh, right.

She's Creek. Yes. So Catherine O'Hara is the best. She's the absolute best. The She's a queen. She is the most lovely down to earth, incredibly talented, Whiz, genius woman that I have. I have nothing but admiration and awe and love for her and working with her is for sure. highlight of my career. You know, she's, you know, what's funny, though, is like that show actually didn't have a lot of improv at all. It was a kind of rigorously written show. And you know, everybody, not everybody would take a pass. But like Katherine and Eugene, like the writers were incredible already. The scripts were so great that that you know, it's a testament to them to how natural and loose it can feel. But then, you know, Katherine would kind of do a pass for her character. And they would really work the script before we ever got to set once in a while, we'd be shooting a scene and something was a little clunky, and we'd have to sort of pause and work it out a bit. But hardly any of it was improvised. Maybe there'd be like, a button at the end of the scene or something. But most of it was was as written.

Was there any patriotic pride in working with such Canadian icons as Katherine and Eugene?

I mean, yeah, it just felt like, you know, you just sort of like, sit there and like, because they're such good friends, you know, and they would just like, shoot the shit and talk and tell stories and you're just like, listening. Like, and what what else happened on Best in Show? Oh, man. Yeah, there. There's and Eugene is like this. Honestly, Catherine Agena that two of the sweetest most like, down to earth loving people like Eugene wrote handwritten thank you notes to every person on the crew at the end of the shoot. Like, he's just a genuinely kind and thoughtful man. And Catherine is like, you could any of you could have just a chat with her. She's so down and she's like, Hey, how's it going? I'm Katherine. What do you guys do? You know, she's, she's so chill and so talented. And yeah, that was a dream working with them. Yeah, I'd love to get to work with them again. So

what uh, speaking of that kind of what what do you think draws you to comedy? It seems like that is kind of a common denominator and much of your work. Not all of it. But uh, yeah,

I think I'm kind of a silly person. Like I think I I just enjoy laughing I enjoy making people laugh and I like being around comedians, like I love comedians. I love riffing. I love sort of figuring out you know, what's the funniest thing we could do? Let's try. I think what I like about comedy too is you do you get to try different stuff. You know in drama, you can try it you can you agree refining performance. says, of course all the time, but sometimes with comedy, it's like, okay, well, we're going to try five very different things. Who knows what's going to be funny? You know, one of them is going to be like, really off the wall. One of them's gonna have a prop one of them's gonna have, you know, why don't you tip out of your chair. And this was like a perfect example. Just to bring it back to charades for a sec is like, that scene, the great scene where like, Spock laughs for the first time where he's sitting around the table with, with, you know, the gals. Ortegas tells a joke, and now he's human Spock. And he actually gets it and it his laughter gets more and more uproarious to the point where it's uncomfortable to tone it down. You know, it's like, okay, and so I think as it was scripted originally was like, Spock laughs so far, so hard, he falls out of his chair, like, that was the idea was like, it has to get that big. And, you know, at a certain point, we never actually did one where he fell out of the chair, but because it was just, it was too wonky. It was then it was like a stunt and it was a bit too, too slapstick, but we knew we wanted it to get had to get big and so that, you know, it's like we I was like, okay, so you're gonna slap the tail. And then I was like, oh, maybe like whack, you know, give owners shoulder whack. You know, like, try that stuff. And then Ethan was the one who at one point, I think literally cuz he was so thirsty. chugged the drink. Like he had this thing. He'd been laughing so hard, and was like, out of breath. And then he was just like, so Thursday. chugged it. And it was so funny. I was like, Well, now you have to chug it every time because that is definitely I definitely want that. I need that in the coverage now. So that was never scripted. That was like a sort of spur of the moment instinct he had. But then you see, and you're like, Okay, that's a, that's a perfect way to end this. Like, it's so. So outside of how Spock would ever be a Spock has like, you know, like a tiki drink. And he's chugging it. And then he's just sort of like a teenage boy me like, sorry, I just got thirsty. You're like, so far, from what, you know, Vulcans Bach would be like, so I just I think I like the spontaneity of continuity of comedy. And, and when and when a comedian is, you know, when you're working with like skilled comedians, it's kind of magic to watch them, you know, improvise and throw things out there and just kind of really be quite, quite vulnerable in this way where you're like, well, this might be funny, this might not be funny, but they're going to try it. And I just, yeah, I love creating a kind of environment for them to be able to try these big swings, whether they make it into the cut or not.

We'll definitely ask about that later as well.

Yeah, we're about to get into Star Trek. But one final question is you kind of mentioned how, you know, when you got started, you were put together with a mentor. And then I read that later, you got a chance to be a mentor to high schoolers as well. So what was that like making that switch?

Yeah, I've done a few. I mean, there's, there's a great film festival in St. John's, where I'm from called the St. John's International Women's Film Festival. And I've worked with them. For years by my shorts have played there. I've done workshops with them. And I've done a kind of a few different sort of like, high school like working with high school students doing like making like a 48 hour film, or right now I'm sort of mentoring a young female filmmaker who's making her first short through them. I mean, it's great. I love it, I love to talk about film, I love to talk about it with people who are excited and, you know, try to impart I always feel like a little bit, you know, like, man, I've got the Wisdom for you just sit down, and I'll tell you how it really is. So, you know, you walk that line of like, wanting to encourage them and tell them, you know, be like, this is a dream and do it but also, I do always try to kind of impart a little bit of like realism about the industry too, because it's, it's hard and I have gone through many ups and downs in terms of just like, is this going to work out? Is it always going to be this hard? Like, when is it going to catch like I felt ready to work in TV like four years before I ever got my first gig and so when I like when like a young kind of up and coming directors like I want to get into TV, how do I get into TV and I'm like, Just keep doing what you're doing like keep working keep making stuff, but like yeah, it may still take many years after when you feel like you are ready to do it. So I don't know I try not to be like a buzzkill. But I there's a line to walk where it's like this is I hope good advice. That also doesn't scare you away from the industry. But making them

aware of the challenges is a big part of them interpret Sure. Yeah,

absolutely. And we'll never will we will move into Star Trek in general here. But first our open fight nine listeners will be happy to know that Jordans cat has joined joined the chat. So,

yes, the cat's name boots on classic nice

classic. Yeah. Fantastic. So, trek in general, how'd you get the job? Were you like actively seeking Star Trek? Or how did this opportunity

presented itself? I wasn't actively seeking it. Though I now I will always be actively seeking it. You know, I, I'm not entirely sure how I think that they because what's so special, I'm sure you know this. But what's so special about strange new worlds is unlike kind of almost any show that I can think of. They really every single episode is like its own standalone movie of the week. And they really, you know, they do an amazing work. The both the creators and also the cast of being kind of flexibly moving through these different genres and tones every week, you know, where you can do them, you know, the musical episode of the horror episode of the comedy episode. And they work really hard to pair the right director with the right script. So that you know, if you like, obviously, the director of the musical episode is like this incredible, incredible musical director. And, you know, you wouldn't just kind of throw anybody into that. And so I think my understanding is, you know, they, they had a comedy episode that they wanted a comedy director for. And so they reached out to my agents. And I had a great interview with Chris Fisher, who I don't know if you guys have ever had Fisher on but

this close and then there was like a strike. So I heard

about that. Yeah. Well, I'm sure you'll have him on at some point he is you'll love him. He's a dream. He's again, one of like, really, like, when I talk about be feeling supported and trusted and having someone having your back like, Chris Fisher is one of the kind of embodies like, everything a producing director and producers should be he just like, he sees what the director needs. He helps you get there. He's so calm. He's so supportive. And so I had this great interview with him. But it was more of a chat like I thought it was sometimes you do an interview and it's more like an interview and you're like, Okay, I'm trying to pitch myself and here, but this was more just kind of a great chat, where I kind of, at the end, he was like, Well, great. We'll, we'll see you soon. And I was like, Hey, did I get that job? Did that did I do it? Okay. So it was it was just like one of those lucky, you know, you know, the most amazing show cake is what happened with Fraggle two. It's like, these incredible shows that somehow I get in the mix of, and then I actually nail it. And then you're like, Well, I'm in i It's like I won the lottery. So I hadn't been seeking it out. And I didn't really know what I was walking into. I'd watched some of it. But then of course, I watched all of it. I actually got to watch. It wasn't out. It wasn't released, but but I got sent the sort of pre released episodes. So some of the VFX was like, still green screen and stuff. But you know, watching it, I was like, Oh, I watched Season Two of discovery just to kind of be like, Oh, this is who the characters are. And you know, getting to know, you know, Spock and pi, Kaduna. And get a taste of that. But when I watched the first season, even with like, the rough effects, I just Yeah, I was so excited. I I was like, Oh, this is a really good show. This is cool. This is gonna be this is gonna be amazing, then it was even better than I thought. So

that's great. So on the show is as cinematic as strange new worlds is. And like you mentioned them being their own individual mini movies almost. Does it feel like a movie set? Or how are the conventions of television work ever present? Like how does it How does it feel?

They really do an amazing job of like, giving the episode what it needs. Within I mean, you know, it's still a TV episode. So it's not like we get 30 days to shoot one but you do get 12 days which is a lot of time for a one hour and you you use every second of it, you need it but it does. It gives you the opportunity to try things and to not feel rushed all the time and to do some specialty shots and to really like dig in with the actors. So there is there is definitely more or it feels like there's more time and resources? Well, there is literally both of those things than on kind of a typical one hour TV set where you can. They care about the show, they care about the world, they care about the quality of every episode and every piece of every episode. And so they, you know, they allot the resources where it needs to be, which is time, you know, that's what is missing on those shows where you're just like, Well, how am I supposed to do this in six days? Like, I can't do this. And so they they know what the show needs? And they, they follow through on it?

Can you tell him about the difference between directing for television and directing a film as a film director, and you kind of mentioned before, how there's aspects of both that you enjoy? And so maybe, yeah,

I mean, I've the only films I've made have been real indie films. So there's obviously like a big difference between just, you know, the amount of people and resources and money on a on a film set versus on an indie film set versus on a TV film set. You know, usually on a TV set, you're shooting a lot more in one day, you know, you're shooting a much larger page count, you've got multiple cameras going, you've got you know, you're digging into more stuff, often than you would on a film ideally on a on a film set. Where maybe you have a bit more time or you're not, you know, my last film was you know, is like mostly a two hander, two women in one location handheld, you know, so there's, it's a totally different kind of, set of, you know, equipment you need in terms of your coverage, your you know, you're doing kind of like a two shot and two singles. It's not like, Okay, we gotta get the crane balanced. And then we're gonna push through the window and you know, into the AR wall and all sorts of stuff. So, yeah, I've never I would love to direct on a big movie, I'd love to do kind of something like a star a Star Trek movie would be amazing, or, you know, something with that kind of higher level of budget and resources, but mostly in TV. Yeah, you're you're trying to make your day is kind of like, you got to make your day. Often on a movie, you got to make your day too, but sometimes there's a bit more flexibility because you're usually like, if it's your own movie, you're like, Okay, well, we'll get that tomorrow. I'll figure out how to get it tomorrow. If this you don't get a scene it's like oh, well now 200 people are mad at me so

well, you did you got the shots and you actually got some behind the scenes shots to you and a lot of us were we love following along on your

way. Do you see my snow for season three? I got so much stuff. I can't wait to post it in a year or whatever. Right?

So out of curiosity, What's the process like for sharing stuff? Like like you have to get it? Like approved by Paramount or the showrunners? Or who says yes or no to what you can put up?

Man I've been on shows that have been so you can't post anything even when the show is out there very selective about what you can post stranger world is way more chill like Fischer. Chris. When I was shooting it, I took a picture of you know, like the back of the chair with my name on it. And I was like, Can I post this? He was like, Yeah, sure. Everybody knows for shooting it's fine. I think as long as you're not giving anything away, you don't want to can't give away obviously any spoilers, any cast any set pieces, but, you know, taking pictures of like, here's Spock at Chapel in the sickbay. Everybody knows what they look like. And so they're pretty chill about it. Knock on wood, so I didn't have any trouble with it. Yeah. Excellent. And

you worked with a couple of our previous guests on open bike. Now you mentioned in a gas briefing, but also Glenn Keenan, what were the collaborations with those two, like? Well, I

loved working with Glenn. We had a real hoot. It was weird. I was because of COVID. My DP I was originally supposed to be I think with Ian. And then He then got COVID and then Glenn. got swamped. So I ended up working with Glenn. And yeah, we had a great time we, we got along. It's so nice to be able to prep with your DP. They have multiple TPS on the show. So you can actually you know, spend your two weeks of prep with the DP shortlisting going through the stats figuring all that out. Which you need. You need it on a show like this with so much kind of technical stuff. But yeah, Glen rocks. He's so he's so chill. We had a great time. And then Dana is a dream. I mean, you met Dana. She's like, not only like the sweetest human she's an amazing editor. She's so smart and so fast and like such a great problem solver. Great Taste just the best. I'd work with her on anything. Yeah. Fantastic.

Well, we got another call. from regular contributor Abby,

Hey, open pike in Jordan, this is Abby summer from the first flight podcast. Jordan, I wanted to say, I absolutely love charades and your direction was part of it. I was hoping that you could talk a little bit about if there was any shad in particular that you really loved in that episode that you want to call out for us to notice and really make sure that you pay attention for and is there a shot or multiple shots that you've done in other projects that you wanted to call out for just being really happy that they came out the way they did? Whether it was really difficult, or really inspired or really unique? I would just like to know, some of the things that you find that you are the most proud of all of you do amazing work. And I hope this finds you well.

Great question. I love that I was just like, I'm just going to pull up my, my Star Trek because I keep a kind of folder on Google Photos every for like any references I have, and then also kind of screen grabs from from the show itself. Just to see what I like so Okay, well, one thing for charades that I. I mean, there's so many shots I loved. And there's some really funny ones. But there's this one thing we did that I'm not sure, maybe anyone would notice. But I kind of thought it was kind of cool. It's just more sort of like thematic than anything else. But so there's these two scenes, these two different interview scenes that chapel has with the mean Vulcan guy from the Academy. And, you know, the first scene is shot in the ready room. And he's, it's when he like really tears her a new one, and she feels like shit afterwards. And then the second scene later is when she's feeling very empowered, she's just going to enter dimensional space. And she's like, You know what, I don't need your stinking Vulcan Academy. And the way that we shot that, you know, in the ready room, he's big, he's big up on the screen, he's very imposing, and I shot it in a way I want to shoot in a way to make her feel very small, diminutive, so we filmed you know, we shot down on her shot up on him, you know, there's a big wide of her where she's just tiny in the frame. And you can see his big head, kind of like, bearing down on her. And she's just kind of made to feel very sort of small and sad. And then kind of the mirror scene of that later, when she's like, empowered and doesn't give a crap about this guy. We shot in the sickbay or bangas room, where now he's small on the monitor, she's big, we shot down on him up on her to give her this kind of power. And it's just like, again, it's there's nothing like mind blowing. But I was very The great thing about this show is like when you have 14 days to prep something which you never get, usually you get half of that you can actually like, plan out these visual things in a way that like yeah, maybe no one will really pick up on it, maybe they'll sort of feel it. But those are just the things where it's like icing on the cake where you can actually make these sort of visual motifs or you know, through lines or mirror there's there's shots there's a lot of mirrored shots between Spock and Chapel because it's a kind of a truly like, sort of, you know, to it's following both of them. So there's there's some repeated shots in there. And I mean, I love my I love the shot, the kiss shot. I mean, I I love that whole final scene. I was really proud of how that turned out in the 360 smooth shot. Emeril romantic for crap like that. Classic. It's classic. Yeah, and epic smooch. So yeah, I was I loved how everything turned out. In that episode, the Yeah, it was it was great to have that much time to plan and to really like execute it properly. And then in other stuff, things that I've done, what's something that I I mean, there's some great stuff in Fraggles Season Two coming up in a couple of weeks, the PI the season premiere of, of Fraggles Season One, there's some pretty special, wild things we did with puppets and I'm really excited for people to see we really Yeah, we we took some big swings there and I think they turned out great. So yeah, I'm excited for that to be out in the world. And

also you posted a series of shots from charades on Instagram and also the films and TVs that inspired them.

Yes. And I had four of those Yeah, no, I'm gonna do that again for for season three. I love that too. There was one I meant to post to have actually have a Laura from The Devil Wears Prada doors. Oh, but that was actually Yeah, her and Miranda Priestly was kind of the inspiration for that.

That's cool. What do you how do you go about the process of building out the shot list. How do you when do you, when you see those shots? Do you capture them? And hope to use them in the future? Or do you go back hunting through once? You know, the script is

I read the script a lot. And then I kind of start to Yeah, pull images, like, it depends, like sometimes there's something very specific, like I know, okay, so when Spock wakes up from, you know, when he's lying on the table, I knew in my head, I was like, Okay, I want a POV shot, I want like the kind of looking down the three of them looking down the barrel. So then I start with that, and then I go, pull a bunch of references of that I pull, I go on shot deck, or I pull them for that, or for like the kiss, I know, I wanted it to be bad or not, not the kiss, but when they're in the bathroom, where she zaps him with the, you know, she turns him back into a Vulcan, I really wanted that to be reminiscent of this show that there's a show that I love called sex education. Or there's, there's a great scene where the two, they finally kiss and it's backlit. And it's kind of just two beautiful silhouettes. So I start kind of pulling references. And then I also pulled just a ton of like, great. I was like looking up different science fiction films. And so I would just be pulling kind of the images that spoke to me. Yeah, love

seeing the sunshine reference there for Spock with Yeah, Murphy, some of

it gets us like, you know, you guys, you guys at home can't see it. But you know, I pulled you know, there's tons of stuff from a rifle for Wake when she's talking to the aliens. And I was sort of thinking like, oh, an intervention dimensional space, maybe that maybe we use like wider lenses. So I pulled a bunch of stuff of like, okay, here's like, kind of close ups, you know, and I really wanted, I really wanted, like the aliens to be very big compared to them, like, I wanted it to be this feeling of like, and we didn't even quite make them as big as I would have imagined them in my head. So yeah, I do this for every project, I'll pull anywhere from, you know, 40 to 100 images, and then they're just sort of there. So I can pull them up and show them to Glen or show them to the operator and be like, Okay, this, you know, here's like three cool overhead shots that I like, Can we do something like this, or, you know, and sometimes they work sometimes they don't like I had this, this didn't work out at all, I had this kind of image in my head were before we shot the scene, like long before, you know where where Spock hugs chapel in the hall, which is very weird. You know, him being physically close, I had that, you know, this great shot for Minority Report, where I was kind of like, I kind of wanted to see both of their faces at the same time. It's actually a very hard shot to like, you couldn't just kind of go into the hug, it had to be very sort of weird and voice and that's too heavy. And it was it turned out to be such a kind of sweet, more more comedic scene, it didn't want to, I didn't need to have something kind of as like austere is that so you know, you have all these things. And then some of them you use and some of them you never do. But they're fun to have for later. Because then yeah, doing that side by side stuff is very satisfying. Oh, that's

a great process. When you were talking specifically about that shot composition between chapel and the Vulcan and the mirroring of that, that's some of my favorite stuff where like, you're kind of being delivered this extra layer of story, even if you don't realize it, and like you said, you just feel it and you stand in the same space with them. So we are going to jump directly into charades proper here. And some of these questions. I will warn you are very specific because we very specifically love this episode. So we know that Spock swore when he was turned into a human and he realized it. Is there a full cut with Spock's actual F bomb?

I don't think he ever completed the F bomb. I always went out because I knew we had to cut it. So I think I was like Ethan, you need to extend the F a little bit so that I can cut out of it without right. Don't think we there might be one take there were certain was certainly never a cut of it where we kept it in. It's

our holy grail that there's a tape of that out there somewhere.

There might be at least the UK would know. Yeah.

i Yeah, we forgot to ask Dana but we might have to email her directly specifically about that.

So our very good friend Patrick from the it's got Star Trek podcast astutely asks, thank you so much for helping craft such a brilliant episode of Star Trek. What are some key challenges or maybe advantages to doing humor in the context of modern Star Trek.

One of the many things that's so great about the show is like the actors, they're so flexible. They're they're all they can do obviously They can do incredible drama. And they can, you know, give all these this crazy space exposition and make it sound like, oh yeah, that's a real word. But then they're also good at comedy. And I loved doing that episode and letting everybody have like a little moment. You know, it's like when guna and her and Ortegas and lon are standing there trying to teach Spock how to speak Vulcan and be Vulcan. Like we had there isn't there's an extended kind of that they were there was improv there. They were trying stuff, we had all sorts of stuff, silly things in there. And I was just, you know, I was like, This is so fun. It's kind of a weird thing to say, but like, you know, what I always loved about Foo Fighters was like, you know, they're an amazing band, but then they would make these amazing comedy videos, where you'd be like, Oh, they don't take themselves. So seriously. I like the more for this. I think when you see someone being funny, being a little bit silly playing around, you just love them more. And I think that's what's so great about the show is like, it's not all serious and earnest all the time. Because there's a divide, then they don't feel necessarily like you can kind of get past the wall. And but then you see, you know, you see them being silly or cracking jokes or like, I liked them. They seem fun. I want to hang out with them. You know, I think there's Yeah, earnestness can only take you so far. So I think that it helps in a show where there does have to be obviously like, big dramatic stuff and sci fi seven that, you know, all of that is so important. But it's nice to kind of catch your breath sometimes and like, laugh and feel kind of a bit more at ease in the world.

I remember you saying last time you were here that the voyage home was one of your favorite Star Trek installments. And that checks out like,

yeah, I loved it. I watched it so many times. And I've watched now all of the movies. I hadn't watched all the movies up until I got that job. I'd seen a couple of them. But I'd seen The Voyage Home easily a dozen times. Like I still. I love it so much.

Real quick. I think I read somewhere that you said you had a crush on cue watching tng growing up had

still looks great.

Like a fine line. He looks great. You know? Yeah. Someday I Oh. Yeah. I was always drawn. Yeah. Like drawn to the kind of comedic comedic trickster character. Of course, I loved Q You know, because like, he just changed up the energy, you're suddenly like, Oh, now kind of Picard is being kind of funny, too. And it? It's just yeah, there's something I always loved the funny episodes of exe files to like, I liked seeing Mulder being a little silly sometimes.

So, as a, an episode, Director, I just I have no idea. So I'm gonna ask to find out. Do you get to be involved at all with the casting of like a guest star like outside of the principal cast? And if so, what made Laura and Michael stand out as great parents? Oh,

my God, they were so good. Yes. Sometimes depends. Usually, the answer is yes, for for a guest star, you would be involved you'd see. You'd see auditions and you would either do a like a callback with them or just kind of decide with the, with the showrunner and the producers and writers together, you would kind of come to a decision to be like, we love them. Sometimes the guest star has been cast before you got there because they're in a longer, you know, storyline that needs to play out. And they had to do chemistry reasons stuff. But yes, so a lot. Yeah, they, they just stood out there. I mean, there were some other great actors in the bunch, but I feel like both both of them just immediately when we we saw them. Everyone was like, they're their that's their perfect. She was terrifying. I mean, you met you met her? She's like the sweetest opposite Yeah, her and on the like, scary. You know, monster in law mother in law, vibes and. And then, you know, her sort of sweet henpecked husband who's just like, kind of just like, you know, doesn't have a backbone left after years and years, but it's kind of just okay with it. You know, that was a great, the energy was great between the two of them fully

agree. So we have a couple of questions here from our wonderful callers, John, if you don't mind. Let's start with Julian. Here we go.

Hello, Jordan. This is Julian from strange new pod. I just want to say that it was a pleasure to get to talk to you a few months ago. It was just a great conversation. I'll always remember our little chat about the bacon and Spock And I think you mentioning something a bout a spit bucket. So, a great story a great episode. Congratulations on being on open pike. They are a wonderful crew over there. And hopefully we'll get to talk to you for season three. Have a great time. A

bacon spit bucket?

Well, usually when X when there's like eating on set, there's actors are offered, there's a spit bucket nearby because if they got to do 10 takes of something, you know, they they don't always want to eat it all. And Ethan did have to eat a lot of bacon for that. We also we God bless them the the props department and they're great food stylists made, tried to make like turkey bacon, like they made sort of turkey bacon and sort of painted it almost like with edible stuff to make it look like real bacon because they were like, well, maybe he'll want to eat. You won't want to eat this much real bacon, but it just didn't look real enough. And Ethan and it didn't you know it flops around. And Ethan God, God bless him was like, I'll just do the real bacon. And yeah, he definitely ate a lot of it. He spit out some of it, but it wasn't there wasn't a consistent spitting. He ate a lot of bacon.

What a tough job. Yeah, tough

rough. Rough day on set. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I want to go back to the casting real quick before our next call. Because I have to know what casting the interdimensional customer service alien was low. Well, that's

actually an interesting story a little bit. So when we shot the scenes, there was an actor there, this great actor who's a friend of mine, Jameson Kramer, he was actually on set with a mic and he was reading the off camera lines. And he did and he was fabulous. He was just the right level of passive aggressive and sort of like, he was so good. And then when they then they ended up changing it. I don't actually know the story because I remember after we edited it, someone from the show reached out to me and they were like, who was the actor who did that? We heard that you're friends with him and I gave them Jamison's name. And so I thought, Oh, my God, that's great. They're gonna actually use Jamison's voice because I, you know, you get used to something in the cut. And I was like, Oh, I don't want to hear anything between those. But then they ended up changing it to a to a female actress. I actually I don't know where I don't know how that changed. She was great to just not quite as bitchy as Davison was a bit more of a kind of tone. Yeah, that I just really liked. But yeah, there's an actor, any, they're so great. I mean, often you just have like the script supervisor reading it, but they always they bring in an actor so that, you know, they can really do a great performance and stuff.

And now we got to champion the Jameson cut. That's, that's amazing. Yeah.

I mean, that's in the Jamison's, for sure. In my directory, Scott. Yeah. You guys, we

got to send a lot of emails today.

Bombard her with emails tonight. Yeah.

Oh, they just got done talking to Jordan. I can tell. Yes. Gonna say

she would she would know. All right, we've got one more call. And one more right in this one comes from our very good friend, Grayson.

Hi, Jordan, what a cool opportunity to get to talk to you. I'm such a behind the scenes TV nerd. I love knowing how the sausage gets made. And I have a little bit of television production experience, probably just enough to be dangerous. So I'm just super curious about how this particular episode of strange new worlds got made. And I know that there's a couple of different ways to shoot a TV show. There's a multicam TV show, and there's a single cam TV show, and I'm pretty sure that strange new worlds is a single cam TV show. And that means that all of Ansan mounts, brilliant, hysterical, and awesome reaction shots. Were not in the moment, you had to go either go back and get those or shoot them ahead of time. Or, I don't know, how do you manage to make sure that those incredibly hysterical and seemingly spontaneous moments feel spontaneous, even though they have to be planned? They have to be scheduled somehow or or are they not? Do you realize in the moment Hey, Wouldn't it be funny if Anson comes up with a tray of hors d'oeuvres and then realizes Oh, no, I don't want to be on that conversation in terms of I'm just super curious. How do you decide those things? Does it happen in the moment or is that in the storyboard?

Thanks. Yes, it is single camp, but it's a kind of a misnomer because it's We shoot with multiple cameras. But it's not like a It's not like a sitcom where there's, you know, five cameras shooting everything at once you know you, you shoot coverage. So yes, Pike's great reaction to that moment. I think we shot I'm trying to remember that was our biggest day, that was a really long day in Pike's quarters. And I have a feeling that was the day we were trying to actually shoot Anson out, because he really, you know, he's mostly just sort of sitting over in the kitchen for a lot of it. So you know, there's just at a certain point you like, we have to shoot all of this stuff with, with the Vulcans in the living room and you're like, let's just let let's shoot ants and stuff. So he can go home, you know, so he's not sitting there for hours and hours waiting for us to do everybody else. But yeah, we would have I'm sure. I can't quite remember exactly how but but that was not scripted. It was something that kind of Yeah, kind of came out in the blocking. That was really funny. And that, yeah, we just wanted to make sure was covered. Because I mean, Pike is in a couple of those scenes like he's there when, you know, in the ceremony, where she's tearing Spock a new one, and he's just sort of off in the corner, like and he takes like a little like, awkward sip of of brandy, you know. So it's great in a comedy to have those little cutaways, obviously, and Anson gives you so much. He's so funny. He's He's so funny on camera and gives you lots of great reaction stuff. So, yeah, it would have been planned, I imagined, I think we actually probably would have blocked it shot out everything in the direction towards the kitchen, and then be like, Okay, let's get amston Scrape reaction. And we just would have rolled the camera and been like, ants and just kind of walk through it and try it a couple of different ways. And yeah, then that was it.

All comes out in the edit, man.

It's all in the edit. Yeah.

That's so cool. All right. Yeah, that was one of those things. I think when we cover that episode, 90% of our callers were like, answer Brad's face. And it's a man's face. Like, yeah, I know. Right? It's I mean, it's

everyone. This episode is all about the reactions. I mean, comedies about reacting but it is like, some great

looks. Yeah, great little looks between, you know, the scene where Ethan when, when Amanda first shows up, and Ethan shows up with that hat on and like the looks between pike. And, you know, Anson did improvise that line on when it's like, it's regulation, right, Captain goes plan one just like it. That was that was improvised.

I love it. Yeah. So

you had mentioned your kind of shot inspiration list. And you you mentioned it as a tool that you use on a lot of your jobs whenever you have the time to prepare. This is spoiler adjacent, but we're not asking for specifics. Is there anything that you might recommend we watch in visual preparation for your season three episode? Oh.

Yeah, that's too obscure. I don't think so. No, I mean, you could watch all of season two of Stranger world preparation.

Absolutely. Our goal is never to get anybody's NDA broken, of course. Yes. So our last right in here comes from our friend David Jones, who has background on under the cloak of war in season two. David says, I just want to say thank you to Jordan canning for giving us fans one of the best episodes of strange new worlds. And we can't wait to see what more you have in store for us live long and prosper. And that will bring me to my final question. Which is, was there any actual charades playing that ended up on film?

I, I wish I will say I feel like there was a there was a version of the script that actually lost the charades entirely. And then we brought it back like even that little those couple little lines. I wish that there was some of that no, there was never any charades actually played, unfortunately. A very fun blooper reel for the credits or something. But yeah, yeah. The line. Yeah, Michael's little bonus line was great. I'm so glad we got that in there.

He recommends that any Star Trek convention putting together an event should probably do charades with the actors from charades.

Oh my god. Yes. That would be incredible. That would be great.

Oh, going back to David's comment though. How did it feel having charades named is like one of the Top 10 Top 25 films and so many lists are yes,

it was amazing it was. So it was like a gift as such a surprise and such a wonderful. Yeah, such a kind of wonderful culmination of that episode and how special it was to shoot that show. And I really did. And I will say like, somehow I didn't think it was possible. But somehow my episode of season three, I had an even more kind of special time on it. So maybe it'll just keep keep going. But you know, that it really was such a highlight to make sure aids and so it was great to see that it found its audience and found, like some critical love and that it was showing up on all these lists with like, you know, obviously, you know, the big, obvious, amazing episodes like the successions, and The Last of Us is in, you know, all of those episodes that everyone talked about. So I, I'm very hopeful that it kind of found some new viewership that people maybe who wouldn't be like normal Star Trek fans or sci fi fans who would be like, Oh, maybe I should check out strange new worlds. This sounds kind of cool. Yeah, and I'm glad I'm so glad that it was a comedy episode like that. That to me, just like kind of proves the point of like, yes, comedy, and space is great. People. People want it. People want more comedy. Yeah.

Yeah. The pirate sees and comedy and space. Yes. Yeah. I

think a huge accomplishment of the episode is that you could show it to somebody who like, for example, my wife always described Star Trek growing up. She's like, I just remember it was always people talking. And I wasn't interested in it. And it's like, I know that she enjoys this episode, because every time I've had it on, she goes, Oh, is it the funny one? And I'm like, Yes. Check it out. Like yeah, so it's, it's, I mean, like you said, to be able to do comedy in Star Trek is got to feel like a gift. And it absolutely felt like a gift for us, the audience. It

is a gift. And and it's Yeah, I mean, I think what this show does so good, too, is just like the the relationship. I mean, you know, there's lots of people talking, and they're dealing with big space, you know, phenomenon and stuff. But the characters and the relationships really are at the forefront of this show. And they've done such a beautiful job with, with all of the cast and the and the relationships between them. So yeah, I think that anybody can really get into this show. Because it's, you know, it's about humans.

I just have a question. That's not really a good Capra question, because it's a very meaty question, but it's kind of what we're talking about. And that I think one of the reasons comedy works I think a lot of your comedy is based in drama, from what I've seen your short film or your feature films and, and a lot of the work you've done, you know, for, for me, I was watching this episode, and I was like, oh, it's, it's a puberty parable. That's what's happening in your discussions with Ethan like finding that balance of Vulcan human Spock? Like, what what did you guys talk about? How did you discuss that?

We talked about it a lot. We had actually like a, I mean, we didn't end up using it that much. But when we were first in prep, we actually sort of taught we had like a numerical system, we were like, kind of zero to five of being like, zero is like him at his most repressed Vulcan, where he's like, pushing all the human out. One, one to two is kind of like, regular Spock as he would be where he can has a bit more balance. And then as you got three to five, it would be sort of like, okay, that humans taking over. And so it was a way for us to kind of map it out a bit where you find the scenes like, where he's going to be as human as he's ever been, and, you know, kind of an unhinged human as opposed to just a sort of calm human. But yeah, we talked about it a lot. And then we played around a lot on set, you know, there would be he would try something and I'd be like, I think you could be a bit more human here. Try like, you know, actually feeling like the scene. It's one of those scenes like where you read it, and you're like, Okay, this could maybe this might not work we'll see. But the scene when he's kind of first talking to him Banga and pike, where they're like, how do you feel? And he's like, Well, I feel sad and scared and angry and hungry, like, and we kind of got it. So he's sort of every emotion he describes. He's sort of feeling it a little like, he's That's how quick he's, he's like, flipping between feelings. And I think Ethan just kind of nailed, nailed it. Because it could be really, you know, there's a world where this could have gone like, too wacky or whatever. It always had to still be grounded in like a real Spock experience. And so yeah, we would try different stuff we'd find too, and I'd be like, That's too human too. too big, too small. and just kind of got, you know, after the first few days, I feel like we just kind of got in a rhythm of it and knew how to dial it up and dial it down.

And apparently Sam Kirk can dial him up to a five, no problem.

Did you talk much about like, what I like the allegorical aspect of it, like whether it was puberty, whether it's, you know, multicultural relationships or the

puberty NISS of it was more about how he was behaving, we didn't sort of talk about it in an allegorical way. It was more about like, how does that affect your behavior? How are you? You know, how are you reacting? In this moment? How are you sort of taking in lawn and this through this different lens in this moment, you know, and, you know, throwing a tantrum in front of your mom and those those kinds of moments where he could really kind of, yeah, be like a little bratty teen.

So blue when she does so well.

He sold it. Well,

we'll try one more time. To get a tease out of you. We do like to ask for a one word tease for the next season. For instance, last year, Dr. Aaron gave us the word colors, which were pretty sure related to your episode charade. So it's a one word that doesn't spoil anything. But when we watch season three, we'll go

eat terrarium.

Okay, that's good. I like that. Yeah,

if you win, when you see when that word comes up, you'll maybe remember but I

remember. We make a whole big like conspiracy board. That's, that's one of our most specific, like, every outside of I think Sheng di was pretty stringent gave us and we kept like, trying to figure out what it meant in English. And then we get to the finale of season two, and we're like, he gave us a planet name. Oh, my God.

Did not expect that. Thank you so much, Jordan. Thank you. All right, Jordan camp. Yeah. Bike night is an open mic night theme podcast. And so we have asked you to repair joke for us this evening. Do you have one ready? Okay,

well, here's the thing, because you can I'll tell both of them. I think you can cut out the one if you think it's I have one job. I feel like I have one joke when you said you have to tell a joke. I was like, well, I could tell my one joke. Maybe it's not maybe it's too. I don't know. It's not like it's particularly crass. But I was I don't know that. Whatever. What do you call a masturbating cow?

I'm dying to call him masturbating.

Beef stroganoff.

Oh my gosh. I feel like I should have gotten that. That is gonna become my joke. Now. I'm stealing honestly. Yeah. Wow. Okay, guys, well, I

think we're gonna use I'm gonna go tell my wife right now.

I'm happy to spread the word

wow, I didn't think I could enjoy this conversation more but

I seriously you learn so much. And then you just like Mike Trout. They have their comedy director picked well.

Well, thank you for reliving 12 days two years ago with us, Jordan. We appreciate you taking the the mental trip back.

It was great to talk about it again. I love to talk about it. And

you will absolutely be hearing from us after season three. Great.

Yeah. Season three is going to be epic. I'll see you guys I don't know in a year I guess.

We'll see.

And cut. We got it.

Thank you listeners for joining us for our interview with Jordan canning to close out our charades spectacular parade. Game Three, three interviews three words of power. And man, these have been fantastic interviews. I almost wish we could like plan far enough ahead to do like a series per episode, but I mean, getting so many schedules lined up was really just kind of fortuitous for us. But you guys best show joke we've had from a guest

Yeah, I agree.

It was pretty fantastic joke that she was really on the fence about into there for a while. She delivered it so deadpan like yeah, I was like, Is this gonna be dirty? And then she started it and I was like, Oh, okay. Well, yeah, Jesse, we are excited about our next interviews. Who can folks look forward to? Well, up next we have our very good friend from Twitter, Mr. David Jones, who has background in under the cloak of war and he has a very unique perspective on what it's like to be a lifelong Star Trek fan. Who ended up on Star Trek. Yes, get jealous now because you will stay jealous. And we are working on Mr. Martin Quinn, the brand new first ever is Scottish. Scotty can't